139 réponses à ce sujet

[xROLLxTIDEx]

The Human Adept rapes.

You can singularity-warp combo faster than you can warp-throw.

Singularity - Rank 4-Lifting Duration, multiple enemies. Rank 6- Expand (Must have IMO) Watch your singularity grow, grab more enemies and go boom boom.

Shockwave isn't nearly as bad as you people claim it to be. The only problem with this power, again my opinion, is the Rank 5 evolution. Why does the 50% biotic detonation and the 50% distance have to be the same choice? If Bioware truly wants to upgrade this power then they should swap the 30% radius choice in rank 4 with the 50% distance choice in rank 5. Or they could switch the 50% distance with either of the 2 choices in rank 6. Being able to detonate your singularity and/or warp with 50% more biotic detonation at 15 m instead of 10 meters would make this power amazing.

Modifié par xROLLxTIDEx, 01 mai 2012 - 08:33 .

[UEG Donkey]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

The Human Adept rapes.

You can singularity-warp combo faster than you can warp-throw.

Singularity - Rank 4-Lifting Duration, multiple enemies. Rank 6- Expand (Must have IMO) Watch your singularity grow, grab more enemies and go boom boom.

Shockwave isn't nearly as bad as you people claim it to be. The only problem with this power, again my opinion, is the Rank 5 evolution. Why does the 50% biotic detonation and the 50% distance have to be the same choice? If Bioware truly wants to upgrade this power then they should swap the 30% radius choice in rank 4 with the 50% distance choice in rank 5. Or they could switch the 50% distance with either of the 2 choices in rank 6. Being able to detonate your singularity and/or warp with 50% more biotic detonation at 15 m instead of 10 meters would make this power amazing.

You can't singularity/warp a maruader or relly anything that shouldn't be thrown or shockwaved.  That's the problem with your synopsis otherwise you're right shockwave has a messed up 5th choice you need to be able to detonate and increase range. 

[Sakaja]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Sakaja wrote...


Ah, rhetoric without substance.  Who was saying the HA is not viable?  ANY class is viable.  This is a comparison of HA vs. AA killing efficiency.  If you want to show that the HA is comparible in killing efficiency to the AA, then come up with some substance and post the HA sequence.

HA are better teammates with AJ than AA;
Biotic Sphere plus Shockwave stuns and explodes several opponents at a time, throw can't do that. 

The HA can cover a flank with singularity

Stasis isn't as important because you can warp reave once the phantom is in the sphere. 

I agree that the HA and AJ combo has more synergy than with the AA when they work as a team, due to the AoE biotic explosion potential.  With the buffs, maybe singularity will be more effective covering choke points/flanks.

I suppose I'll have to try it - I haven't touched HA since I unlocked the AA.

Modifié par Sakaja, 01 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[xROLLxTIDEx]

UEG Donkey wrote...

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

The Human Adept rapes.

You can singularity-warp combo faster than you can warp-throw.

Singularity - Rank 4-Lifting Duration, multiple enemies. Rank 6- Expand (Must have IMO) Watch your singularity grow, grab more enemies and go boom boom.

Shockwave isn't nearly as bad as you people claim it to be. The only problem with this power, again my opinion, is the Rank 5 evolution. Why does the 50% biotic detonation and the 50% distance have to be the same choice? If Bioware truly wants to upgrade this power then they should swap the 30% radius choice in rank 4 with the 50% distance choice in rank 5. Or they could switch the 50% distance with either of the 2 choices in rank 6. Being able to detonate your singularity and/or warp with 50% more biotic detonation at 15 m instead of 10 meters would make this power amazing.

You can't singularity/warp a maruader or relly anything that shouldn't be thrown or shockwaved.  That's the problem with your synopsis otherwise you're right shockwave has a messed up 5th choice you need to be able to detonate and increase range. 

You can Warp-Shockwave any enemy. Period.  Yes you must be close but this is where it takes some skill to play as the human adept.   You can warp the enemy and then throw your shockwave through a wall to detonate without the enemy being able to see you.  This is how you handle armored targets.

If you are facing a maruder, etc with a shield simply throw your singularity at them.  Shoot them once or twice with your pistol to remove the shield and then they are immediately grabbed by the singularity.  Then you warp the singularity.  

If you are surrounded by enemies, spamming Shockwave can easily save your life and help you escape the situation.   

It is much easier and takes far less skill as a player to sit in a corner and warp-throw, warp-throw, warp-throw all day.   I understand that most people would rather just take the path of least resistance.

[UEG Donkey]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

The Human Adept rapes.

You can singularity-warp combo faster than you can warp-throw.

Singularity - Rank 4-Lifting Duration, multiple enemies. Rank 6- Expand (Must have IMO) Watch your singularity grow, grab more enemies and go boom boom.

Shockwave isn't nearly as bad as you people claim it to be. The only problem with this power, again my opinion, is the Rank 5 evolution. Why does the 50% biotic detonation and the 50% distance have to be the same choice? If Bioware truly wants to upgrade this power then they should swap the 30% radius choice in rank 4 with the 50% distance choice in rank 5. Or they could switch the 50% distance with either of the 2 choices in rank 6. Being able to detonate your singularity and/or warp with 50% more biotic detonation at 15 m instead of 10 meters would make this power amazing.

You can't singularity/warp a maruader or relly anything that shouldn't be thrown or shockwaved.  That's the problem with your synopsis otherwise you're right shockwave has a messed up 5th choice you need to be able to detonate and increase range. 

You can Warp-Shockwave any enemy. Period.  Yes you must be close but this is where it takes some skill to play as the human adept.   You can warp the enemy and then throw your shockwave through a wall to detonate without the enemy being able to see you.  This is how you handle armored targets.

If you are facing a maruder, etc with a shield simply throw your singularity at them.  Shoot them once or twice with your pistol to remove the shield and then they are immediately grabbed by the singularity.  Then you warp the singularity.  

If you are surrounded by enemies, spamming Shockwave can easily save your life and help you escape the situation.   

It is much easier and takes far less skill as a player to sit in a corner and warp-throw, warp-throw, warp-throw all day.   I understand that most people would rather just take the path of least resistance.

Most biotics will tell you if you have to use your weapon you are doing it wrong.  My point about the Maruaders was to address your point that Sing//Warp is faster than Warp/Throw.  I like HA alot actually but only when you've got an AJ with you; otherwise AA and HS are superior

[Biotic_Warlock]

Has anyone used shockwave to detonate enemies behind walls.
I like how shockwave goes through walls

[UEG Donkey]

Sakaja wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

Sakaja wrote...


Ah, rhetoric without substance.  Who was saying the HA is not viable?  ANY class is viable.  This is a comparison of HA vs. AA killing efficiency.  If you want to show that the HA is comparible in killing efficiency to the AA, then come up with some substance and post the HA sequence.

HA are better teammates with AJ than AA;
Biotic Sphere plus Shockwave stuns and explodes several opponents at a time, throw can't do that. 

The HA can cover a flank with singularity

Stasis isn't as important because you can warp reave once the phantom is in the sphere. 

I agree that the HA and AJ combo has more synergy than with the AA when they work as a team, due to the AoE biotic explosion potential.  With the buffs, maybe singularity will be more effective covering choke points/flanks.

I suppose I'll have to try it - I haven't touched HA since I unlocked the AA.

  HIt me up if you are on xbox "mynameisdonkey" gamertag

Modifié par UEG Donkey, 01 mai 2012 - 09:06 .

[Sakaja]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

It is much easier and takes far less skill as a player to sit in a corner and warp-throw, warp-throw, warp-throw all day.   I understand that most people would rather just take the path of least resistance.

It's not about the path of least resistance - it's about being effective.  As you pointed out, the HA is effective at close ranges (shockwave range). At long ranges and vs. certain enemies, the HA becomes far less effective.

It was frustrating to warp/shoot/warp/shoot armored targets at range for small amounts of damage, compared to the huge chunks of damage the AA and other classes could dish out. 

[The Spamming Troll]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Sakaja wrote...


Ah, rhetoric without substance.  Who was saying the HA is not viable?  ANY class is viable.  This is a comparison of HA vs. AA killing efficiency.  If you want to show that the HA is comparible in killing efficiency to the AA, then come up with some substance and post the HA sequence.

HA are better teammates with AJ than AA;
Biotic Sphere plus Shockwave stuns and explodes several opponents at a time, throw can't do that. 

The HA can cover a flank with singularity

Stasis isn't as important because you can warp reave once the phantom is in the sphere. 

AA can use warp on enemies inside biospheres causeing detonations.

AA can use stasis to cover flanks and stasis doesnt fade away after its first biosplosion meaning i can set it and forget it. 

about shockwave: does the lift duration last long enough for you to detonate with your own warp? i dont think it does.

[The Mad Sage]

I don't believe it does last long enough, but in fairness, the point is not to be able to detonate it (since 9/10, you'll have just used Shockwave to detonate a Singularity or Warp to begin with, and that would be a bit overboard), but to add to it's disruptive capacity. A Human Adept is a potent damage dealer in his own right, and in my opinion, the best CQB Adept available, but his true strength is in being able to disrupt and CC the enemy in a variety of ways while offering some biotic primers or detonators depending on your team set-up. He is genuinely versatile, a trait often overlooked by the mass of "i wanna kill stuffz fastur than a salareun!" gamers in the community.

[Nissun]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Has anyone used shockwave to detonate enemies behind walls.
I like how shockwave goes through walls

Condor is awesome for this. Warp a Marauder, it staggers him. Get behind one of those parked Makos. Shockwave. Boom! 

[The Spamming Troll]

The Mad Sage wrote...

I don't believe it does last long enough, but in fairness, the point is not to be able to detonate it (since 9/10, you'll have just used Shockwave to detonate a Singularity or Warp to begin with, and that would be a bit overboard), but to add to it's disruptive capacity. A Human Adept is a potent damage dealer in his own right, and in my opinion, the best CQB Adept available, but his true strength is in being able to disrupt and CC the enemy in a variety of ways while offering some biotic primers or detonators depending on your team set-up. He is genuinely versatile, a trait often overlooked by the mass of "i wanna kill stuffz fastur than a salareun!" gamers in the community.

just argueing for the sake of argueing here......

so what more does the HA offer compared to the AA, other then having the capacity to shockwave enemies through walls?

like someone else mentioned previously "i havent played an adept since i unlocked the asari." how often do you see adepts running around in MP? its not like the adept sucks, all the classes are alright. its just that the AA offers alot more in comparison.

also, i gotta disagree that the HA is the best CQB. i can spam throw 3 times by the time one limited-range-shockwave coolsdown, so the group CCing shockwave offers is nullified by multiple uses of throw.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 01 mai 2012 - 10:59 .

[The Mad Sage]

Shockwave has a comparable cooldown to throw, it is much more difficult to dodge when aimed properly, and it has the added benefit of lifting unprotected enemies into the air for a period of time when specced properly. It also can, as mentioned, go through objects, whereas Throw must be curved appropriately to managed this feat, and can only strike one person at a time, whereas Shockwave can strike multiple enemies.

Singularity, unlike the Warp/Throw combo, can stunlock protected enemies and completely incapacitate numerous unprotected enemies, and since they are lifted, the Force impact of a biotic explosion will send them further than warp/throw will to a grounded target.

Singularity can also be used to set traps at chokepoints or flanking vulnerabilities to slow an aggressive push from an enemy force, especially useful against Reapers where the strength of the enemy is in swarming numbers than overwhelm and disorient the Squad.

Listen, I'm not arguing against the effectiveness of an Asari Adept -- I find them extremely useful in the hands of a competent player that understands how to balance power usage with smart weapon usage, and their biotic dash, when used properly, is perhaps the best dodge in the game. I just think when used properly as well, a Human Adept contributes just as much to the success of a Squad in numerous situations as an Asari Adept will, just in a different fashion. Not worse -- simply different. And yes, I DO maintain that when used effectively, a HA is just as good at 'sploding things in a CQB arena, if not better.

Modifié par The Mad Sage, 01 mai 2012 - 11:23 .

[Hyunsai]

The superiority of AA over HA is not only due to Warp/Throw combo, but also because of the godlike Stasis. That's why you can't deal with these numerous situations as well as the Asari. You just can't. You can perhaps compete with the Human Sentinel though.

I still think giving those 3 powers (Stasis, Warp, Throw) to one class was a big balance mistake, but what is done is done.

[Sakaja]

Yeah, I can see the HA actually being the CQB adept...

[The Mad Sage]

Stasis is a fantastic power, I do not disagree at all, and it's CC capacity is not in question. I just think that with smart playing, Shockwave and Singularity offer just as much potential. In truth, the only situations where Stasis just shine above the other two is against Phantoms, and I hardly think that cheesing one enemy is a valid enough reason to throw HA's under the bus with a A>B comparison with AA's. Singularity can stunlock shielded or barrier covered enemies, and Shockwave's lift effect could be argued to be even better than Stasis against unshielded enemies, since it can prime them for biotic combos with higher Force damage than Stasis from another biotic, synergizes better with a squadmates Throw, and inflicts falling damage on whoever is neglected after it is used.

[The Spamming Troll]

why do i see millions of asari adepts, and ZERO human adepts?

zero, my friend!

do you yourself play HAs over AAs?

[Brettic]

Sakaja wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

Sakaja wrote...


Ah, rhetoric without substance.  Who was saying the HA is not viable?  ANY class is viable.  This is a comparison of HA vs. AA killing efficiency.  If you want to show that the HA is comparible in killing efficiency to the AA, then come up with some substance and post the HA sequence.

HA are better teammates with AJ than AA;
Biotic Sphere plus Shockwave stuns and explodes several opponents at a time, throw can't do that. 

The HA can cover a flank with singularity

Stasis isn't as important because you can warp reave once the phantom is in the sphere. 

I agree that the HA and AJ combo has more synergy than with the AA when they work as a team, due to the AoE biotic explosion potential.  With the buffs, maybe singularity will be more effective covering choke points/flanks.

I suppose I'll have to try it - I haven't touched HA since I unlocked the AA.

I don't see how, AJ reaves, AA throws. biotic explosions everywhere.

You can only set off one biotic detonation at a time, shockwaving a group with reave on them and hitting two reaved targets will only set off one explosion, not two.

Theres a thread on the mechanics of Biotic detonations here: http://social.biowar...7/index/9822648

I'll quote the relevant part: "Power combos do not cause other power combos. So if you create a biotic
detonation near an enemy in Stasis, the detonation won't cause another
power combo.

A power can only detonate a single combo every time
it is cast. So if you have AoE Throw and you hit 2 targets both in a
singularity, only one of them will get detonated."

HA is a waste because there is nothing it can do AA can't do better. Singularity is a crap skill because it is too situational only working on red healthbar enemies. Only Reapers have a large amount of those on Gold, and it has no way to answer for the bad guys that adepts are there to kill, the armored mooks, like ravagers, brutes, banshees, pyros, atlas mechs.

And don't even get me started on shockwave, it's worse than drell adepts reave, shakes everyones screen all over the goddamn place everywhere on the map, and it's buggy and has a short range.

It's a weak class and can't handle every situation as effectively as pretty much every other adept class can, it relies on others too much.

[The Mad Sage]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

why do i see millions of asari adepts, and ZERO human adepts?

zero, my friend!

do you yourself play HAs over AAs?

I do, actually. I find the playstyle dynamic and entertaining, and the close-quarter aspect of the HA lends itself to my preference that long-range cover-based Warp/Throw spamming.

To the above poster, I feel like I've already repeated myself enough about why I feel differently than you about Asari superiority, and I know I personally do much better with the Human Adept than I do with the Asari for a multitude of reasons, while still being aware of the fact I am a contributing member of the Squad that isn't just taking up a spot for his own selfish indulgence of a personal enjoyment. 

People predominately play AA over HA the same reason most people swarm to a certain side of a fence -- Bandwagon Mentality. One person promotes the AA over HA, then two people do, and so on and so forth until eventually the average gamer simply goes "Well, I see a dozen times the number of Asari that I do Human Adepts, so there MUST be a reason people think they're better!" and flock to that idea rather than practicing both and seeing which one really offers more to their individual playstyle or Squad composition.

At the end of the day, if several of you have tried both (or have just played AA and are genuinely content with that experience) and think that the Asari are better than Humans, that is fine: it's a multiplayer game because there are multiple people playing it in different ways. But to discard the entire class for other players because it doesn't stack up to your private comparison of that caste of class is beneath you.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

why do i see millions of asari adepts, and ZERO human adepts?

zero, my friend!

do you yourself play HAs over AAs?

For the simple FACT that asari adepts are very superior to human adepts.

Sure, Singularity and Shockwave are situationally useful. But the skill set of Singularity-Shockwave-wave-warp is not nearly as useful as Stasis-Throw-Warp. IF it were we would see roughly as many human adepts as asari adepts and that is simply not the case.

The simple fact is Singularity offers inferior crowd control to stasis buble and Shockwave is one of the more weak powers in the game for a fragile adept.

Singularity needs a significat buff and shockwave needs to be able to lift multiple enemies if the lift evolution is taken.  With the range evolution taken on shockwave it is workable but quite often can't be used even then because of the distance between the adept and that enemies. That leaves the human adept with only singularity and warp to use the majority of the time.

if the squishy human adept is supposed be a close quarters combat class he should have more a lot more in the way of barrier strength. But I don't see the "biotic master" as being a CQC guru.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 02 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[Brettic]

The Mad Sage wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

why do i see millions of asari adepts, and ZERO human adepts?

zero, my friend!

do you yourself play HAs over AAs?

I do, actually. I find the playstyle dynamic and entertaining, and the close-quarter aspect of the HA lends itself to my preference that long-range cover-based Warp/Throw spamming.

To the above poster, I feel like I've already repeated myself enough about why I feel differently than you about Asari superiority, and I know I personally do much better with the Human Adept than I do with the Asari for a multitude of reasons, while still being aware of the fact I am a contributing member of the Squad that isn't just taking up a spot for his own selfish indulgence of a personal enjoyment. 

People predominately play AA over HA the same reason most people swarm to a certain side of a fence -- Bandwagon Mentality. One person promotes the AA over HA, then two people do, and so on and so forth until eventually the average gamer simply goes "Well, I see a dozen times the number of Asari that I do Human Adepts, so there MUST be a reason people think they're better!" and flock to that idea rather than practicing both and seeing which one really offers more to their individual playstyle or Squad composition.

At the end of the day, if several of you have tried both (or have just played AA and are genuinely content with that experience) and think that the Asari are better than Humans, that is fine: it's a multiplayer game because there are multiple people playing it in different ways. But to discard the entire class for other players because it doesn't stack up to your private comparison of that caste of class is beneath you.

no, the simple reason is AA can set up and detonate their own biotic explosions on anything and without having to get killed in the process, you dont have the health or the shields to be up in somethings face and shockwaving it, unless you play on bronze, where you can do whatever you want and succeed. and they can handle phantoms and other nasties easily with a simple stasis. which can be detonated as well. Shockwave and Singularity just simply arent worthwhile skills, the only worthwhile skill HA has is Warp, which AA also has. It's simply a better adept suited to every situation, there is nothing bandwagon about it, it's just better period.

If all you are trying to do is justify the HA in bronze then whatever, it's fine in bronze, happy?

[The Mad Sage]

I play HA frequently in Gold and do quite well on it. I've never noticed a survivability issue while detonating combos. But then again, I rarely played classes that required sitting behind a wall and spamming 2 powers to accomplish a goal when learning the ins and outs of the multiplayer system. Maybe that is where we split paths.

I tried to keep this respectful of the opinions of others, and acquiesce consistently to the power of the Asari, but you seem insistent that I really don't have a valid opinion of these classes until I agree with you that the Asari is a flat improvement to the Human. Not going to happen, man. Let it go. I've made plenty of points about why the Human Adept is perfectly acceptable on any difficulty and even thrives in certain situations, and really have no interest in proving one class over another. You are obviously pretty content with the way the Asari Adept plays, so it shouldn't really matter to you if I disagree with you. I'm not even saying you're wrong, just that I believe the Human Adept is underplayed and underappreciated for what it can bring to the table when played effectively. I'm not sure how that is even an argumentative point.

Some people just have to "win" once these conversations begin. If that is the case, then yes -- I am "Happy" with your acknowledgment that the Human Adept is bronze capable.

[HolyAvenger]

I've played Reaper gold with HA, and it works fine. As you say, singularity/warp is great for mopping up cannibals and husks. Warp/shockwave is great for banshees and brutes (who pressing in close anyway, so the short range of shockwave is not a factor). Only marauders and ravagers pose a real problem (but then again not really...marauders staggered by singularity, quick double tap to the the head to strip shields, then boom. Ravagers...get in close and warp/shockwave).

HA is poor against Cerb and geth, granted.

[The Mad Sage]

I actually enjoy playing against Geth with him. Shockwave stagger completely invalidates Pyros, and Geth Primes have a slow enough turn ratio that you can easily strafe kill them with Warp/Shockwaves while blasting away with a light shotgun the same as Atlases. The same strategy of dropping a Singularity and dropping their shields for a gravity-trap works just as well on the Rocket Troopers and Hunters, too.

[Brettic]

The Mad Sage wrote...

I play HA frequently in Gold and do quite well on it. I've never noticed a survivability issue while detonating combos. But then again, I rarely played classes that required sitting behind a wall and spamming 2 powers to accomplish a goal when learning the ins and outs of the multiplayer system. Maybe that is where we split paths.

I tried to keep this respectful of the opinions of others, and acquiesce consistently to the power of the Asari, but you seem insistent that I really don't have a valid opinion of these classes until I agree with you that the Asari is a flat improvement to the Human. Not going to happen, man. Let it go. I've made plenty of points about why the Human Adept is perfectly acceptable on any difficulty and even thrives in certain situations, and really have no interest in proving one class over another. You are obviously pretty content with the way the Asari Adept plays, so it shouldn't really matter to you if I disagree with you. I'm not even saying you're wrong, just that I believe the Human Adept is underplayed and underappreciated for what it can bring to the table when played effectively. I'm not sure how that is even an argumentative point.

Some people just have to "win" once these conversations begin. If that is the case, then yes -- I am "Happy" with your acknowledgment that the Human Adept is bronze capable.

If you can't admit the obvious and evident handicap then you are being willfully ignorant. And no one wants to play with a shockwave spamming adept, especially not snipers. Not only is the skill buggy but its impossible to aim with your screen shaking all over the place.