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[The Spamming Troll]

The Mad Sage wrote...

I play HA frequently in Gold and do quite well on it. I've never noticed a survivability issue while detonating combos. But then again, I rarely played classes that required sitting behind a wall and spamming 2 powers to accomplish a goal when learning the ins and outs of the multiplayer system. Maybe that is where we split paths.

I tried to keep this respectful of the opinions of others, and acquiesce consistently to the power of the Asari, but you seem insistent that I really don't have a valid opinion of these classes until I agree with you that the Asari is a flat improvement to the Human. Not going to happen, man. Let it go. I've made plenty of points about why the Human Adept is perfectly acceptable on any difficulty and even thrives in certain situations, and really have no interest in proving one class over another. You are obviously pretty content with the way the Asari Adept plays, so it shouldn't really matter to you if I disagree with you. I'm not even saying you're wrong, just that I believe the Human Adept is underplayed and underappreciated for what it can bring to the table when played effectively. I'm not sure how that is even an argumentative point.

Some people just have to "win" once these conversations begin. If that is the case, then yes -- I am "Happy" with your acknowledgment that the Human Adept is bronze capable.

hey! what else are we supposed to argue about? the ending? HELL NO! im liking this discusion. FINALLY, discusion about classes and abilities. i feel like we all discussed this stuff 100% more before the game was even out. it honestly makes me happy to talk about this. so please dont stop!

but, dude. you gotta get over this whole "AAs only sit behind cover and fling warp and throw all willy nilly" balogne. i dont remember the last time i used cover playing an AA. as a matter of fact im mainly getting in people grills blasting my warps with my throws. i really dont know how you think a HA is a better CQB(does that mean close quarter biotic? i think it sounds kindof cool anyways.) i set a warp, and while on cooldown im basically running towards that enemy untill i can use throw and lay waste to the surrounding area wiht a throwsplosion. even spamming throw staggers an enemy enoguh where i can do wahtever i want in CQC. the adept and shockwave really cant accomplish that at all. unless you want to include singularity into the equation, but ill just trump that be saying the AA has a better version of singularity in stasis.

its not an opinion that the AA is a better biotic then the HA. its fact brother. please dont tell me you think the drellgaurd is better then the human vangaurd. my head will explode.

we should play a game sometime, for sure!

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 mai 2012 - 04:47 .

[The Spamming Troll]

^
i completely agree singularity needs much more love. i dont know what bioware is NOT trying to do by leaving singularity as kindof a better pull. charge is a god damned ridiculous biotic ability, while singularity isnt even better then a bonus power like stasis. am i supposed to want to replace my signature ability with a bonus power??? seriosuly, just doesnt make sense to me.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 mai 2012 - 05:23 .

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Why do people assume that if you say that the human adept is good then that automatically means you think the asari adept is bad or that you think the human adept is better than the asari adept. I do not see people saying that.

The biotic explosion from singularity >>> biotic explosion from stasis. The stasis bubble can hold shielded targets where singularity stuns them and blocks their path. Neither stasis or singularity do much for you on Armored targets. Stasis clearly outshines singularity when it comes to phantoms.

You should evolve singularity so that it can hold multiple people in rank 4 and to where it expands by 35% over 10 seconds in rank 6. This will allow your singularity to expand and grab more enemies. The singularity will expand to where it is bigger than the Stasis bubble. While playing as the human adept there will be times where you throw your singularity and then you immediately warp it for detonation. Then there will be times where you want to throw it and let it expand before you detonate. When to do which comes with time and experience playing the character.

O nos, the enemy dodged singularity! Well singularity has a 1 second cool down. If they dodge the singularity simply throw it again. Singularity-singularity-warp is faster than warp-throw-throw or warp-warp-throw.

If you do not want to use your pistol to remove the shield from an enemy, you warp-singularity-warp for your biotic explosion or you can warp-singularity-shockwave to make your biotic explosion. Yes, it may take you an extra couple of seconds but it does work.

If you would rather play the Asari Adept, by all means play the asari adept. But just because you prefer the asari adept over the human adept doesn't make the human adept a crap character. The human adept used by someone who knows how to use it is a force to be reckoned with.

[UEG Donkey]

Some one said earlier that I its impossible to get more than one explosion from any combination; even from Area Reave/Shockwave. Can anyone else confirm this because I could swear that you could with a HA and AJ?

[A Wild Snorlax]

I gave the human adept another go on gold yesterday. Found it absolutely terrible vs cerberus, he is basically terrible at dealing with shields except when they are in shockwave range, and phantoms are a nightmare to kill (unless you're using a falcon or a gps but these make phantoms easy on any class). When me and my friend the vanguard off host went down on wave 8 we both opted to just stay down, in all honesty the human adept made me want to ragequit at wave 2 lol.

[The Mad Sage]

First of all, Brettic, by insisting that people who have a different opinion than your own are being willfully ignorant, you are in turn representing yourself as being close-minded and arrogant. You don't agree with me, which is fine, but by saying that you are so clearly and evidently right because in your experience playing as or with a Human Adept, Asari Adepts are superior. This is a logical incongruity, and really proves nothing more than the fact your experiences with a proficient Human Adept are much, much rarer than your experiences with Asari Adept. If there is an insinuation to be had there at all, it is simply that it is more DIFFICULT for the average player to play a Human Adept as well as the Asari.

I, on the other hand, have no interest in comparisons at all. By comparing classes, you automatically do a disservice to at least one. I firmly believe each class is more than adequate on it's own merits, and while balancing issues may be required to "tweak" and appease the opinions of the masses, each class is individually more than capable of supporting and contributing to a squad. Even the red-headed stepchild of the Adepts, the Human.

To Spamming: Despite my opinion that these discussions, as I said, are not fair to the individual classes, I am more than willing to discuss the merits of one class over another, but generalities like "The Asari is better than the Human" are not fair to either class and diminishes the quality of gaming that has been offered by Bioware in this game that we all obviously enjoy. At least I assume we all enjoy it, or we wouldn't be here.

In that regard, I agree that the Asari Adept posses a powerful one-two punch with a nice utility skill that offers the player the ability to handle numerous situations adequately. But if you compare each skill she possesses to the Human Adept, Warp to Warp, Stasis to Singularity, and Shockwave to Throw, I think you'll find the Human Adept has more to offer you than you realize. Shockwave can stagger multiple enemies through cover and lift them helplessly in the air for a duration of time, which -- in my PERSONAL opinion -- makes it just as powerful and more versatile than Throw. Singularity has trap benefits, a DoT that effects any troop caught in it, and has a much better cooldown than Stasis.

I'm not saying the Human Adept is a flat improvement to the Asari -- that is a lost cause, and I'm afraid I'll never be able to get anyone to agree. But I do believe they are just as good in a multitude of situations. And yes, I do prefer the Drell Vanguard. ;D

Roll Tide: ..  love the name, man. Bama for life. Good points, too.

Modifié par The Mad Sage, 02 mai 2012 - 03:05 .

[UEG Donkey]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

Why do people assume that if you say that the human adept is good then that automatically means you think the asari adept is bad or that you think the human adept is better than the asari adept. I do not see people saying that.

The biotic explosion from singularity >>> biotic explosion from stasis. The stasis bubble can hold shielded targets where singularity stuns them and blocks their path. Neither stasis or singularity do much for you on Armored targets. Stasis clearly outshines singularity when it comes to phantoms.

You should evolve singularity so that it can hold multiple people in rank 4 and to where it expands by 35% over 10 seconds in rank 6. This will allow your singularity to expand and grab more enemies. The singularity will expand to where it is bigger than the Stasis bubble. While playing as the human adept there will be times where you throw your singularity and then you immediately warp it for detonation. Then there will be times where you want to throw it and let it expand before you detonate. When to do which comes with time and experience playing the character.

O nos, the enemy dodged singularity! Well singularity has a 1 second cool down. If they dodge the singularity simply throw it again. Singularity-singularity-warp is faster than warp-throw-throw or warp-warp-throw.

If you do not want to use your pistol to remove the shield from an enemy, you warp-singularity-warp for your biotic explosion or you can warp-singularity-shockwave to make your biotic explosion. Yes, it may take you an extra couple of seconds but it does work.

If you would rather play the Asari Adept, by all means play the asari adept. But just because you prefer the asari adept over the human adept doesn't make the human adept a crap character. The human adept used by someone who knows how to use it is a force to be reckoned with.

I don't think HA are bad however they are dependant upon other biotics and I level mine accordingly with only 3 points in singularity so I don't even use the expand perk.  What do you forgo when leveling singularity to level 6?

There are some issues in your post that I'd like to address;  your comparison of AA and HA by way of Singularity detonations> Stasis Detonations is disingenuous  because those are both lock down skills not detonation skills.

Also, your comparison of Singularity-Singularity-Warp v. Warp-Warp-Throw or Warp Throw Throw is also disingenuous because you are ingoring shields again.  You come back to this by saying you can warp singularity warp a target but not only is that taking additional time but you are probably going to have to shoot anyway to because warp isn't going to break the shield on its own. 

[The Mad Sage]

Snorlax: Stick with it! The class really does reward hard work and style adaptation better than any other class I've found. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, and I understand it's limitations as well as anyone, so I know they can be frustrating at times. But the first time you run up to a Brute, warp him, shockwave him, kill two mooks around him, blast him in the face with your shotgun, and strafe-dance your way to victory .. you'll feel like a total BA.

Also, I don't see a problem with using the Falcon or GPS if you find it makes up the shortcomings of the class. That is the point of the weapon system -- to minimize disadvantages and maximize benefits of the class in question. Hope you find the style with the HA that works best for you, man. It really can be a very rewarding experience on this game.

[UEG Donkey]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Some one said earlier that I its impossible to get more than one explosion from any combination; even from Area Reave/Shockwave. Can anyone else confirm this because I could swear that you could with a HA and AJ?

Could it be possible that we got a detonation from sphere/shockwave and reave/shockwave on the same shockwave?

Modifié par UEG Donkey, 02 mai 2012 - 03:11 .

[Delta 57 Dash]

Ok, so serious question:

What to choose for rank 5 shockwave?

Detonation is important, but range helps you actually land the detonations so....

Thoughts?

[xROLLxTIDEx]

UEG Donkey wrote...

I don't think HA are bad however they are dependant upon other biotics and I level mine accordingly with only 3 points in singularity so I don't even use the expand perk.  What do you forgo when leveling singularity to level 6?

There are some issues in your post that I'd like to address;  your comparison of AA and HA by way of Singularity detonations> Stasis Detonations is disingenuous  because those are both lock down skills not detonation skills.

Also, your comparison of Singularity-Singularity-Warp v. Warp-Warp-Throw or Warp Throw Throw is also disingenuous because you are ingoring shields again.  You come back to this by saying you can warp singularity warp a target but not only is that taking additional time but you are probably going to have to shoot anyway to because warp isn't going to break the shield on its own. 

I do not think HA's are dependant upon other biotics.  You believe that they are.  That is fine.  Each is our own opinion and arguing/discussing this opinion is counter productive.

Singularity is BOTH a detonation skill and a lock down skill.   You can use it either way and you should use it both ways or you are not using the HA to its full ability.   How can you not fully evolve a power and then in turn say that the power is no good?  

I play my HA like I do all my adepts, with a 6-6-6-5-3 build.   I like my glass canons!

I point out that singularity-warp is a faster combo than warp-throw.  This is becuase singularity has a faster cooldown than warp.  The human adept will be able to throw the warp before the asari can throw throw.  Do you disagree?

I also point out that it IS possible for the human adept to deal with shields and I gave you a couple different ways of doing so.  Never did I say that the human adept can deal with shielded enemies faster than the asari.  It takes an extra move for the human adept to deal with shielded enemies and thus longer than the asari.  I pointed this out.

And I have not once said that the human adept is better than the asari.  I point out what seperates the human from the asari.   This game is all about trade-offs and how you want to build, play any given character.  

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Delta 57 Dash wrote...

Ok, so serious question:

What to choose for rank 5 shockwave?

Detonation is important, but range helps you actually land the detonations so....

Thoughts?

This is, once again simply my opinion, the biggest problem with the shockwave power.  Of the 6 possible choices for the evolutions of this power, the 50% biotic detonation and the 50% extra distance travel are the 2 ones that you would want the most.  Bioware forcing us to choose  between these two in rank 5 and then giving crap evolutions for rank 4 and 6 is an epic fail.   The lifting shockwave for rank 6 is good, but  I would trade it for both rank 5 evolutions any day of the week and twice on sunday.

I originally went with the 50% biotic detonations but now I have mine specced with the 50% distance.  I sacrifice the bigger boom to be able to boom a little farther away.  It hurts when the last wave of the shockwave is just short of hitting your target.  

[A Wild Snorlax]

The Mad Sage wrote...

Snorlax: Stick with it! The class really does reward hard work and style adaptation better than any other class I've found. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, and I understand it's limitations as well as anyone, so I know they can be frustrating at times. But the first time you run up to a Brute, warp him, shockwave him, kill two mooks around him, blast him in the face with your shotgun, and strafe-dance your way to victory .. you'll feel like a total BA.

Also, I don't see a problem with using the Falcon or GPS if you find it makes up the shortcomings of the class. That is the point of the weapon system -- to minimize disadvantages and maximize benefits of the class in question. Hope you find the style with the HA that works best for you, man. It really can be a very rewarding experience on this game.

I just don't see the point of the human adept compared to the stasis asari or the Drell adept. I can see warp -> shockwave being good vs reapers on small maps like glacier and white but other than that I don't see the point at all. I played adept in single player on insanity and singularity -> throw was great in that because there are so many unshielded enemies there and you can grap several at a time + it's a fast combo, but singularity suffers in mp because of all the protected enemies, plus warp and shockwave makes it either a much slower combo or harder to detonate.

If I'm ever pulling it out again I'm definately only doing it if I have other biotics on my team XD Need moar reaves to make the HA playable, if I had someone to reave phantoms it would have been a lot easier. And I think I'll take a GPS and a power efficiency module next time, trying to be fancy is good on an asari and in a team with a balanced character setup but trying to carry a team with a carnifex human adept was definately not the way to go about things.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

The Mad Sage wrote...

Snorlax: Stick with it! The class really does reward hard work and style adaptation better than any other class I've found. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, and I understand it's limitations as well as anyone, so I know they can be frustrating at times. But the first time you run up to a Brute, warp him, shockwave him, kill two mooks around him, blast him in the face with your shotgun, and strafe-dance your way to victory .. you'll feel like a total BA.

Also, I don't see a problem with using the Falcon or GPS if you find it makes up the shortcomings of the class. That is the point of the weapon system -- to minimize disadvantages and maximize benefits of the class in question. Hope you find the style with the HA that works best for you, man. It really can be a very rewarding experience on this game.

So what is your cooldown on warp with your HA using a Falcon?  Heck, any class can kill with a Falcon X with consumables, but the adept them is hardly a caster.

Until the number of human adepts is roughly equal to the number of asari adepts it is clear the HAs are clearly inferior to the community.

Sure, you can kite a brute shooting him with your shotgun. And hope there is not something standing off in the distance that is going to blow your fragile adepts face off. It is much safer just to stay behind cover and warp-throw to create the biotic explosion than to run up to him and shockwave him.

Singularity needs a buff. It seems to me to be the weakest of the class signature powers. Bioware pretty much acknowledged the need to buff it but last week's buffs were quite inconsequential and some changes were counterproductive (like increasing the duration from 15 to 25 seconds while buffing the level 6 damage on expiration.)

Oh, and the level 6 evolution for increased radius is gradual, happening over 10 seconds. Why not an immediate increase in radius? The base radius of singularity is pretty small and should be increased. The evolution that grants a damage over time effect is a pretty small DOT and will seldom be useful at all during the time something is being held, and the singularity is generally going to be detonated.

[Nissun]

Look, I have nothing against Asari Adepts. But Singularity and Stasis should have been equal from the start. Meaning that either singularity should have been able to trap shield/armored enemies, or stasis be unable to stop shield/armored enemies.

Just my thoughts. In any case, I find playing human adept a hundred times funnier than the asari.

[BYC]

So I used HA yesterday out of curiosity...

I was not impressed by HA. I actually like Shockwave, but Singularity is just terrible. Warp is great of course, but as an adept, I wasn't getting anywhere near the biotic explosions that I'm used to. When I solo, he was okay since I am used to using BSen with Shockwave for staggers, so that wasn't any different. It's more than annoying to put 6 points into Singularity and to have it do virtually nothing against Geth and Cerberus.

When he was teamed up with other biotics, I just spammed Warp. I could have done that as HS or AA, and they have more HP.

Singularity needs something. As it is, the radius isn't good, too many things are immune to it out right, while others needs to have shields down (on gold having no shields = death anyways), it's slow and targets dodge it often (to my surprise). I felt like a nub when I used Singularity, and I had no idea what it was hitting because of distance, lack of animations, and lack of people floating around. Enemy HP was either going down fast (to do focus fire from everybody) or not at all, so I had very little idea if the power was at least hurting them or not.

I like my BSen with Shockwave/Net so much better since I'm at least specced for CQC with a great melee behind it. HA is probably meant to be played up close, but there's no way they are better than both BS and BSen, and I rather play Batarians for CQC anyways.

[Nissun]

It's probably been said before in this thred, but there are a couple of things I'd like to add:

- You don't need someone else to prime or detonate your biotics. You can singularity/warp, singularity/shockwave, warp/shockwave, and I'm not sure about this one but I think you can shockwave/warp too.

- Cooldown is not an issue if you equip the right weapon. Which reminds me...

- There is nothing wrong with using a weapon on an adept. I can't remember where I read it, but someone on this forum said that "If you need to fire a single shot when playing adept, you're not doing it right". What a stupid thing to say. Sure, carrying a widow would be stupid. But why shouldn't I be able to use a pistol to take down shields, armor, or finish off an enemy?

[The Mad Sage]

My cooldown using a Falcon X is 3.2 seconds. And anyone that tells you that Falcon is a fantastic weapon to kill enemies with by itself is not using the weapon for what it's meant for. It is great against Phantoms and shielded opponents because it ticks the shields off while keeping them staggered in the process. It can do that to a group of enemies. If you drop a singularity on a group, and stunlock them with Falcon to deplete their shields, you now have a group of floating enemies ready to be detonated. Pretty useful. But I'm sure the response will be some comparison about how the Asari could do the same thing even better with her eyes closed, still hungover from last night's Best Adept Of The Year ceremony.

[BYC]

The Mad Sage wrote...

My cooldown using a Falcon X is 3.2 seconds. And anyone that tells you that Falcon is a fantastic weapon to kill enemies with by itself is not using the weapon for what it's meant for. It is great against Phantoms and shielded opponents because it ticks the shields off while keeping them staggered in the process. It can do that to a group of enemies. If you drop a singularity on a group, and stunlock them with Falcon to deplete their shields, you now have a group of floating enemies ready to be detonated. Pretty useful. But I'm sure the response will be some comparison about how the Asari could do the same thing even better with her eyes closed, still hungover from last night's Best Adept Of The Year ceremony.

It would be true though.

[Leviathan898]

Nissun wrote...

I'm not sure about this one but I think you can shockwave/warp too.

Sadly that doesn't work, it's another dilemma like the 'biosplosion/distance' upgrades with Shockwave. The last upgrade is recharge speed vs. lift, but from what I've found the one time I tried speccing for lift was that the recharge time from shockwave was too long to throw out a warp and detonate lifted enemies. Sadface.

[Shampoohorn]

Nissun wrote...

...

- You don't need someone else to prime or detonate your biotics. You can singularity/warp, singularity/shockwave, warp/shockwave, and I'm not sure about this one but I think you can shockwave/warp too.

...

Yes, BUT, singularity only primes mobs with exposed health.  You can't prime anything with shields or armor.

Yes, BUT, shockwave has poor range and is currently bugged to be even shorter.

This makes all possible combos with the HA very limited.

Warp/Throw in contrast works on every enemy in the game and at any targetable distance.

[geisljapoa]

A note about opinions: I don't care if your opinion is different than mine. In fact I like that. We now have something interesting to talk about. On the other hand if your different opinion is that the earth is flat, I'm outta here.

TL:DR The HA is objectively worse than the other adepts.

Bioware can't fix it until they can do a Microsoft accepted certified XBOX patch. Even then that assumes that they see this as a problem and know how to fix it.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Leviathan898 wrote...

Nissun wrote...

I'm not sure about this one but I think you can shockwave/warp too.

Sadly that doesn't work, it's another dilemma like the 'biosplosion/distance' upgrades with Shockwave. The last upgrade is recharge speed vs. lift, but from what I've found the one time I tried speccing for lift was that the recharge time from shockwave was too long to throw out a warp and detonate lifted enemies. Sadface.

This is true.  It IS possible to self detonate your shockwave with warp but it IS HARD TO DO.  In order to detonate shockwave you must take the 6th evolution, lifting shockwave and not the recharge speed.  The problem here is that by the time your cooldown for shockwave is finished the enemies will fall out of the lifting shockwave before your warp can get there.   You can self detonate shockwave with warp but it is hard to do on a consistent basis.   Shockwave shouldn't be your primer for detonations anyway.   If you are priming with shockwave then you better have another biotic to detonate it or you are wasting your time. 

And no this does not mean that the HA must depend on any other biotics.  Any of the adept classes can be played as the only adept in the group and ALL of the adept classes will benefit from another biotic in the group.  

[Shampoohorn]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

...

I point out that singularity-warp is a faster combo than warp-throw.  This is becuase singularity has a faster cooldown than warp.  The human adept will be able to throw the warp before the asari can throw throw.  Do you disagree?

I also point out that it IS possible for the human adept to deal with shields and I gave you a couple different ways of doing so.  Never did I say that the human adept can deal with shielded enemies faster than the asari.  It takes an extra move for the human adept to deal with shielded enemies and thus longer than the asari.  I pointed this out.

And I have not once said that the human adept is better than the asari.  I point out what seperates the human from the asari.   This game is all about trade-offs and how you want to build, play any given character.  

Your point about sing/warp being faster is true by very misleading.  Warp/throw biotic explosions work on everything in the game because warp primes everything.  This categorical difference between the combos if much more relevant than the speed difference.

Also, what do you mean by "human adept will be able to throw the warp before the asari can throw throw"?  HA doesn't have throw.

Your point about how an HA deals with shields...  Shields are irrelevant to an Asari adept.  Stasis ignores shields.  Warp primes biotic explosions regardless of shields.  If you asked an asari adept about shields she would smile at you matronizingly and pat you on the head.