Iconoclaste wrote...
If indoctrination enables a Reaper to control the movements of a sentient humanoid, how could Saren turn his weapon against himself? If the Reapers did not wish to destroy their targets but just "preserve" their minds (in a liquefied substance, collected after death!), why would Sovereign and Harby pretend they will just destroy the sentients? How could Harby's beam blast Shepard off his feet but still be a "mild indoc" attempt that didn't destroy his mind? If he was indoc at that point, why did he never side with the Reapers in any point in the game, not even in the slightest of his opinions? He even resists TIM when totally under his control, which was expressed by a ball of white light around TIM's fist.. Why the Reapers don't have this kind of effect?EmEr77 wrote...
Conoclaste: It also states in the Codex that in order for affective Reaper Indoc to take place, it must be done gradually, and that Reaper indoc ultimately destroys the minds of the individual. If they were to put full force into indoctrinating the generals while on earth, they would completely destroy their minds, and render them useless to do what they wanted. Also, their ultimate goal was to harvest the humans, not completely destroy them.
Unschuld: Utilizing a body to amplify the signal is not the same as controlling it. However, I think it's pretty well established that TIM is indoctrinated, or else he wouldn't have gone off the deep end and jeoprdized so many human lives the way that he did. In ME2 he may have been a ******, but he was pretty gung-ho for human survival. Also, it does not state that it's amplifying its signals to indoctrinate other beings. Considering it's necessary to be around Reaper-tech in order to be indoctrinated, it may simply mean that the neuro-chemical make up of an organic body is prime in order for the Reaper to be able to boost its signal to not only solidify control over that single body, but for espionage for all we know. The description is vague.
IT will not reconnect all these inconsistencies without resorting to lots of speculation, the same thing to address questions like the "mind", the "soul" and such. The Reapers wish and actually DO destroy the alliance's vessels, so why not just plainly reducing their damages with their superior indoc powers? They are numerous, they even "dock" on top of alliance's ships, and drill holes in their hulls. They are not preserving anything here : they are waging war. Their motives have benn explained by the kid? IT tells us the kid is lying. What's up now? A twitter non-comment is going to prove IT has not been disproved?
Unbelievable.
The Reapers, much like any being, will fight back if attacked. Considering they have all of these forces, human, and alien alike, attacking them, their ultimate goal of harvesting the humans may remain the same, but they are not above killing those who try to stand in their way, even humans. So, the Reapers wanting to preserve humanity is still just that.
I've also addressed the issue of Shepard's "indoctrination" in other threads before. Considering it is necessary for a gradual process of indoctrination to happen without harming the victim's mind outright, the idea that Shepard is in this kind of "drug dream" does not seem plausible, and I completely agree with you about a Reaper physically controlling a sentient body. I don't think it's stated that's even plausible. They mainly deal with mind-control, and when Saren attempts to resist, Sovereign pushes a little harder to get him to comply, but doesn't physically do anything. I suppose you could argue that the reason Saren was able to turn the gun on himself, was because Sovereign was distracted by the fleet attack outside, and perhaps he wasn't focusing on Saren as much--but that reasoning is a bit squiffy at best.
The Star Child's logic is technically founded on at least three illogical fallacies (yay literary jargon) so it's not to be trusted, both in-game, and certainly out of game.
As I said earlier, indoc would have been a fascinating maneuver by BioWare, had that actually been the case. If that's the case now with this Extended Cut DLC, it may smooth things over, but things won't be fixed. Can't unring a bell, can't unsee what's already been seen. All that jazz.
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