85 réponses à ce sujet

[LaurenShepard-N7]

So I just finish playing Deus Ex Human Revolution and wow now I totally get where the ME3 writers stole- got their inspiration from... The ABC choices, the ethereal machine explaining the consequences of said choices, the hero prossibly sacrificing himself... except it made sense in DX because the whole game was about morality and humanity's evolution, it was like ME3 was just introducing a whole new theme in the last few minutes, and just threw away all the previous games' choices and storylines....

[MattFini]

Shameless theft, is what it was.

[GhostV9]

And to be fair, DX has always followed that formula for endings. It wasn't just HR.

[Ericus]

Yep. I never played the original Deus Ex, but apparently the ME3 endings are an even more blatant 'homage' to that game.

And I entirely agree that the Deus Ex: Human Revolution endings were well suited to that game. Furthermore, they didn't invalidate everything you'd just been through. Instead, they just influenced what the rest of the world found out and how they might react. Completely different to ME3's endings fundamentally changing/destroying the galaxy.

[Artemis_Entrari]

Yeah, not to mention the difference being those endings made sense within the context of the Deus Ex game. It wasn't just completely out of left field, like it was in Mass Effect 3.

[RyuujinZERO]

Ericus wrote...

Yep. I never played the original Deus Ex, but apparently the ME3 endings are an even more blatant 'homage' to that game.

Yah. i loved DE1, more so than DE:HR. The endings in DE:HR though arn't an ending-o-matic theres 3 short pathways to follow to set up the respective ending (ie. chocies matter), which also have more fleshing out so you get some feel for what the consequences might be.


The 3 options in DE1 were:

Destroy: Destroy the hub facility, bringing down the global communication network and plunging the world into a psuedo-dark age, but one where nobody can have easy control over everything.

ME3 differs in this respect in that all 3 endings end in destroying the equivalent system (galactic travel and comms network)


Control: The protagonist sacrifices his "self" to merge with the experimental AI allowing himself to interface with the global comms network and become a digital psuedo-god - benevolent dictator or ruthless despot is never revealled that'd been up to you

Similar in many respects to the control ending of ME3. Shepard takes control of the reapers; whether he puts them to good use after the ending or merely makes them leave is left up to the viewer to interpret.


Status-Quo: Turn the facility over to the illuminati and re-establish the old power base, becoming a member of the illuminati yourself and using the hub facility to your advantage in maintaining a subtle control over humanities direction.

Synthesis has nothing in common with this one



So... it's got as many differences as similarities...

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 27 avril 2012 - 07:34 .

[Dreadstruck]

Ryuujin, I am pretty sure those last two options should be switched, since "Merging with Helios" seems Synthesis to me. Same with the "Illuminati dominance" which sounds more like Control.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 27 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[Cadence of the Planes]

I've never heard this angle before. Thanks for the fresh, riveting perspective.

[Valo_Soren]

Deus Ex is hardly the first game to ever use the 'make your choice' endings, and there is no patent or copyright on that kind of ending.

[Sean]

Sad to see this is the level their Artistic Integrity is at these days.

That is why I have been saying for a while that Mass Effect 3 doesn't have an ending created by Bioware because the current ending just a copy/paste from Deus Ex and Bioware didn't make that game.

[daecath]

Yes. It's as simple as that. The premise of the ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game because it doesn't belong to this game. Everything bad with the ending can be traced to that one simple fact.

[daecath]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Ericus wrote...

Yep. I never played the original Deus Ex, but apparently the ME3 endings are an even more blatant 'homage' to that game.

Yah. i loved DE1, more so than DE:HR. The endings in DE:HR though arn't an ending-o-matic theres 3 short pathways to follow to set up the respective ending (ie. chocies matter), which also have more fleshing out so you get some feel for what the consequences might be.


The 3 options in DE1 were:

Destroy: Destroy the hub facility, bringing down the global communication network and plunging the world into a psuedo-dark age, but one where nobody can have easy control over everything.

ME3 differs in this respect in that all 3 endings end in destroying the equivalent system (galactic travel and comms network)


Control: The protagonist sacrifices his "self" to merge with the experimental AI allowing himself to interface with the global comms network and become a digital psuedo-god - benevolent dictator or ruthless despot is never revealled that'd been up to you

Similar in many respects to the control ending of ME3. Shepard takes control of the reapers; whether he puts them to good use after the ending or merely makes them leave is left up to the viewer to interpret.


Status-Quo: Turn the facility over to the illuminati and re-establish the old power base, becoming a member of the illuminati yourself and using the hub facility to your advantage in maintaining a subtle control over humanities direction.

Synthesis has nothing in common with this one



So... it's got as many differences as similarities...

You've got your control and synthesis backwards.

Control: Turn the facility over to the illuminati and re-establish the old power base, becoming a member of the illuminati yourself and using the hub facility to your advantage in maintaining a subtle control over [humanity's] direction.

Synthesis: The protagonist sacrifices his "self" to merge with the experimental AI
allowing himself to interface with the global comms network and become a
digital psuedo-god - benevolent dictator or ruthless despot is never
revealled that'd been up to you

[Wozearly]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Deus Ex is hardly the first game to ever use the 'make your choice' endings, and there is no patent or copyright on that kind of ending.

True, but if Shepard had been called a God, refused to walk on water, got crucified and then came back to life after three days, people would probably draw understandable artistic parallels with other stories.

The issue isn't the 'make your choice' ending being similar. Its the fact that the choices themselves are so similar to those offered in the original Deus Ex ending. Bearing in mind that this is another incredibly well-known sci-fi game franchise, it was surprising to see so much similarity in Mass Effect 3.

On the other hand, the endings in Deus Ex worked well because the whole game had been slowly unfolding towards those decisions, and almost all of the dialogue across the entire end mission-and-a-bit was gearing you up towards the choice you'd have to make.

Also, rather than a "click here to choose the colours in your ending" option, what you did in the final mission determined not only how things ended - but each decision left a very different world behind.

IMO, Deus Ex was a shining example of how to bring player agency into the ending decisions (hint: its not about cramming all of the relevant bits into the last 10 minutes of gameplay). Mass Effect 3 was a regrettable example of how not to tack on a poor, railroaded ending but dressed up like it wasn't, to an otherwise fantastic trilogy.

[Arsenic Touch]

Must reinstall deus ex again.... /runs off

[Jaron Oberyn]

Valo_Soren wrote...

Deus Ex is hardly the first game to ever use the 'make your choice' endings, and there is no patent or copyright on that kind of ending.

No one said that. It's not they were the first to offer choices, it's the actual choices that are basically the same. The same three from dx are essentially the same from me3. 

-Polite

[Fiery Phoenix]

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...

So I just finish playing Deus Ex Human Revolution and wow now I totally get where the ME3 writers stole- got their inspiration from... The ABC choices, the ethereal machine explaining the consequences of said choices, the hero prossibly sacrificing himself... except it made sense in DX because the whole game was about morality and humanity's evolution, it was like ME3 was just introducing a whole new theme in the last few minutes, and just threw away all the previous games' choices and storylines....

It's not Human Revolution that has ME3's endings, though; it's the original Deus Ex, which was released over ten years ago on PC and PS2.

Human Revolution's endings are conceptually comparable, but that's where the similarities wear off.

[Il Divo]

I always forget that Deus Ex was also released for PS2. And with multiplayer, funnily enough.

[Kelwing]

The three choice ending was fine for DE:HR which I could any stand to play once. Least it made sense to that game.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Il Divo wrote...

I always forget that Deus Ex was also released for PS2. And with multiplayer, funnily enough.

Yeah. It was basically an upgraded edition of the PC version.

[Mr.House]

Yes, the ME3 endings are a complete rip off of the original Deus Ex and it's three endings, so it's even more funny that that Bioware considers it "artistic".

[RyuujinZERO]

Avalla'ch wrote...

Ryuujin, I am pretty sure those last two options should be switched, since "Merging with Helios" seems Synthesis to me. Same with the "Illuminati dominance" which sounds more like Control.

Hmm, not really.... in ME3's control ending shepard merges with the citadel/catalyst in order to control the reapers - Functionally the same as the helios ending. Whereas the synthesis ending, Shepard kills himself, then suddenly SPACE MAGIC!

Control/Helios have more in common than Synthesis/Helios. Even when Denton merges with helios it is purly a case of him taking control of world affairs. There's no space magic that turns everyone into... people with glowy decals.

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 28 avril 2012 - 12:04 .

[Amioran]

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...

So I just finish playing Deus Ex Human Revolution and wow now I totally get where the ME3 writers stole- got their inspiration from... The ABC choices, the ethereal machine explaining the consequences of said choices, the hero prossibly sacrificing himself... except it made sense in DX because the whole game was about morality and humanity's evolution, it was like ME3 was just introducing a whole new theme in the last few minutes, and just threw away all the previous games' choices and storylines....

No, they are completely different. The theme behind it is completely and utterly different, as it is the outcome of the choices, as it is the introduction to them, as it is the modus operandi leading to them.

The only similarities you can find are in the superficial execution at the moment of the choices themselves, but all the rest is completely different.

Really, for someone to think that they "copied" DH:HR one should just consider the very superficial aspects of the choices, without caring at all for the context, the outcomes and the way the choices are introduced/lead into.

In short: to believe the authors of ME copied the ending of Human Revolution or you just know very little of what you talk about or you just care to see what you want to see.

Modifié par Amioran, 28 avril 2012 - 12:17 .

[Amioran]

daecath wrote...

Yes. It's as simple as that. The premise of the ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game because it doesn't belong to this game. Everything bad with the ending can be traced to that one simple fact.

Wrong. The ending fits perfectly with all the narrative leading to it because it is perfectly consistent with the "order vs. chaos" main theme of the same. The SC, the "no questioning", the modus operandi of the same, the choices in the end etc. all are perfectly consistent with the theme.

The only motive why many of you still insist it isn't it is just because you know almost anything at all about the theme (apart in very generic terms). That's a fact. There's no way you can think otherwise if you know the theme.

Modifié par Amioran, 28 avril 2012 - 12:20 .

[DaJe]

Duh? Yes it is pretty much the same.

But "artistic integrity". I mean really, how ****ing stupid do they think their playerbase is.

[Surprise Guest]

Amioran wrote...

daecath wrote...

Yes. It's as simple as that. The premise of the ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game because it doesn't belong to this game. Everything bad with the ending can be traced to that one simple fact.

Wrong. The ending fits perfectly with the narrative because it is perfectly consistent with the "order vs. chaos" main theme. The SC, the "no questioning", the modus operandi of the same, the choices in the end etc. all are perfectly consistent with the theme.

The only motive why many of you still insist it isn't it is just because you know almost anything at all about the theme (apart in very generic terms). That's a fact. There's no way you can think otherwise if you know the theme.

It still depends on how you you interpret the ending choices. It's not as clear cut at that. There are many themes that anyone could claim was the "central theme" of Mass Effect and that would only be an opinion.

Edit: Wouldn't the illusive man, majority of choices and paragon/renegade system possibly suggest that the game's central theme regards sacrifice for the greater good?

Modifié par Surprise Guest, 28 avril 2012 - 12:22 .