95 réponses à ce sujet

[ebreder]

If only they had let the characters lead the game like they did in ME2...

[Lucky Thirteen]

No, that wasn't the problem with ME3. The characters available were well involved. The problem is they admitted they had too many characters, and instead of working their butts off to get them all to work, the decided to add more characters to the problem. They heard fans complaining on the forums after ME2 about the ME1 characters being cameos, so they brought those characters back but instead of learning from that mistake they decided to make the ME2 characters cameos.

All they should have added was Traynor and Cortez for the strictly homosexual romances. Then cycled all of the existing characters from ME1 and ME2 in and out of the squad choices, with romantically involved characters sticking around a lot longer.

No other new characters for romances other than Traynor and Cortez, however new romances with existing characters are okay. If you're not satisfied with the choices at that point, tough crap, there plenty of choices as there is.

Male Shepard- Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Liara, Cortez, Kaidan,
Female Shepard- Thane, Garrus, Jacob, Kaidan, Joker, Liara, Traynor, Ashley.

Well hell, my female brain favored the female side and gave her more choices. Alright, let's make it more even and take out a couple of the fan service ones.

Male Shepard- Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Liara, Cortez, Kaidan,
Female Shepard- Thane, Garrus, Jacob, Kaidan, Liara, Traynor.

6 each. Total 12. Each get two options of bisexual/homosexual romances. The only other problem I can see here is the lack of human choices for female Shepard and lack of alien choices for male Shepard. But if you ask me, this would have been more satisfying.

[DineBoo]

@Lucky Thirteen: You forgot Tali for maleShep. But if you add her to his total and put Joker back in there it would still even out with 7 choices for each. Or you could drop Joker and add Javik for femShep.

I like this solution. Everyone pretty much gets their choices from the first and second games, plus a chance for a new one in ME3. It's fair for all types of players, as there are equal straight and gay options for both maleShep and femShep. The only issue like you said would be the lack of alien choices for maleShep and human choices for femShep, but that would be a minor quibble.

This type o f fairness is what BW should have been striving for in the series. They had it in ME2, but for some reason they really regressed in ME3 when it came to femShep and female players,

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

DineBoo wrote...

Or you could drop Joker and add Javik for femShep.

You get a  for the Javik/femshep comment.

[Shajar]

CrimsonN7 wrote...

Jack should have been a bisexual option, hell she even told Shep that she had women in the past. That transition in ME3 would have been far more believable than Kaidan all of a sudden willing to bump uglies with Sheploo. She would have been the only temptation for my femshep throughout the series and damn she looks great in ME3!

She never said that she had girlfriend in that way, only girl who was friend. People never understand there is big difference. 
I understand that she looks like gay woman, but she is not.

[Beep Il]

Shajar wrote...


I understand that she looks like gay woman, but she is not.

Eww! Stereotypes.

I think femShep's options are just fine. But then again, I've only used BroShep.

[DineBoo]

Beep Il wrote...
I think femShep's options are just fine. But then again, I've only used BroShep.

femShep's choices are not fine since two of her choices are taken away by auto death and by cheating. Plus, if you manage to kill of Kaidan in ME1 or during the coup in ME3 you have no male choices available to romance since Garrus is an import only romance.

MaleShep's romance do not auto die or cheat on him, so it isn't fair.

Also femShep ends up with more S/S choices than maleShep since they took  male choices out. I don't know what BW was thinking with that. Where they trying to make femShep canoniclly bi or lesbian?

Those who play a straight femShep have their replayability of the game taken away because you can only romance Garrus and Kaidan so many times. And just because the Garrus and Kaidan romanves are awesome does not make up for loss and lack of male LI choices.

Like I said, it was balanced in ME2. maleShep and femShep had the same number of choices, and only needed to be tweeked in ME3 by adding a same sex LI. Instead of progressing from that, they regressed into thing female players don't matter.

[Beep Il]

Whoops, I forgot that one needs to romance Garrus in ME2 in order to romance him in ME3.

As a gay Shep player, I fine with number of the available LIs. Two is fine in my opinion. But I completely understand if femShep players want a male LI which is always available regardless of choices.

Peace.

[Sugarjaye]

DineBoo wrote...

Beep Il wrote...
I think femShep's options are just fine. But then again, I've only used BroShep.

femShep's choices are not fine since two of her choices are taken away by auto death and by cheating. Plus, if you manage to kill of Kaidan in ME1 or during the coup in ME3 you have no male choices available to romance since Garrus is an import only romance.

MaleShep's romance do not auto die or cheat on him, so it isn't fair.

Also femShep ends up with more S/S choices than maleShep since they took  male choices out. I don't know what BW was thinking with that. Where they trying to make femShep canoniclly bi or lesbian?

Those who play a straight femShep have their replayability of the game taken away because you can only romance Garrus and Kaidan so many times. And just because the Garrus and Kaidan romanves are awesome does not make up for loss and lack of male LI choices.

Like I said, it was balanced in ME2. maleShep and femShep had the same number of choices, and only needed to be tweeked in ME3 by adding a same sex LI. Instead of progressing from that, they regressed into thing female players don't matter.

Agree, which is why they should have included James for that exact reason... that and he is hunky.

[Xeranx]

Shajar wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...

Jack should have been a bisexual option, hell she even told Shep that she had women in the past. That transition in ME3 would have been far more believable than Kaidan all of a sudden willing to bump uglies with Sheploo. She would have been the only temptation for my femshep throughout the series and damn she looks great in ME3!

She never said that she had girlfriend in that way, only girl who was friend. People never understand there is big difference. 
I understand that she looks like gay woman, but she is not.

http://youtu.be/9QUlULSV8zU?t=53s

Jack clearly makes the comment about having a boyfriend or girlfriend which implies that she's probably interested in both.  She may have been written to have a preferrence, but Bioware decided to unnaturally keep female Shepard from pursuing a relationship and getting shot down (definitively).  It's the only reason that people keep expressing that Jack should have been bisexual.

Edit to make address hyperlink

Modifié par Xeranx, 24 mai 2012 - 02:40 .

[Sugarjaye]

Exactly.

[LelianaHawke]

I like this solution. Everyone pretty much gets their choices
from the first and second games

Except she decided to wipe out Kelly and Tali, who were both available as romances in ME2 (tali definitely was, and I know some people like to ignore Kelly, but she could be taken to dinner and danced with... what more do people want? ).

Characters that you could get involved with in ME2 should never just be wiped out in ME3. 'Equality' is not worth it when it detracts from the investment in the game for some players.

Then you just run into problems of "Why were new characters introduced just so you could eliminate old ones?", replacing one issue with another.

Likewise, personal dislike of certain characters should never factor into the discussions of available options, because then it's just the whole Liara-favouritism all over again, but replacing Liara with Samantha against Kelly, or Thane over Kaiden, or whatever.

Kelly often suffers from this, as does Samara. Two really overlooked characters by many fans.

Bioware created this problem, and the only sensible option is to put more resources into bringing the bad romances up (notably Thane, Samara, and Jacob).

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 26 mai 2012 - 04:19 .

[Sugarjaye]

LelianaHawke wrote...

I like this solution. Everyone pretty much gets their choices
from the first and second games

Except she decided to wipe out Kelly and Tali, who were both available as romances in ME2 (tali definitely was, and I know some people like to ignore Kelly, but she could be taken to dinner and danced with... what more do people want? ).

Characters that you could get involved with in ME2 should never just be wiped out in ME3. 'Equality' is not worth it when it detracts from the investment in the game for some players.

Then you just run into problems of "Why were new characters introduced just so you could eliminate old ones?", replacing one issue with another.

Likewise, personal dislike of certain characters should never factor into the discussions of available options, because then it's just the whole Liara-favouritism all over again, but replacing Liara with Samantha against Kelly, or Thane over Kaiden, or whatever.

Kelly often suffers from this, as does Samara. Two really overlooked characters by many fans.

Bioware created this problem, and the only sensible option is to put more resources into bringing the bad romances up (notably Thane, Samara, and Jacob).

And James, because there isn't one.

[Renmiri1]

I hated the LI choices for female Sheppard. Being a new player, i can only chose Kaidan. Or dig into many pages of computer hacking to cheat the game into thinking i had a ting with garrus in ME2. Asking female players to go gay or hack the game is a bit much IMHO

I have nothing against gay femshep but
a) Is not my style
even if it was my style, the choices are awful! Two of them are women Sheppard barely met and they were never in her squad or relevant to Sheppard in any way.
c) I dislike being forced into a role, in a game that gives choices to males. I am new to the ME universe but it seems to me choices and consequences of those choices were a big part of ME2. We female sheppard players get basically told "is Kaidan or go gay".

Seems to me BW decided to ignore female gamers and decided to make fanservice for fanboiys that love "girl on girl" action. And that attitude pisses me off

[Wahukeza]

Agreed, it's bad enough for those who played the first two but didn't want Kaidan or Garrus as LIs (or they died), but it must feel downright offensive for someone whose introduction to the series is ME3. I just can't comprehend why James isn't a LI (and yet Diana is!) let alone what happened to Jacob and Thane. It really doesn't make any sense.

[Applepie_Svk]

We should make thread for Javik - femshep relationship , after what I first time played Femshep I stay with herbecause of her voiceacting
Otherwise her LI are good or better from side of quality writing / Liara, Garrus, Thane (even if he died his death was good emotianol stuff)
maleshep quality / Liara, Tali ... well from maleshep only these good enough but it´s all

I am not metion about gay relationship because it´s not my stuff

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 28 mai 2012 - 02:16 .

[DineBoo]

Except she decided to wipe out Kelly and Tali, who were both available as romances in ME2 (tali definitely was, and I know some people like to ignore Kelly, but she could be taken to dinner and danced with... what more do people want? ).

Characters that you could get involved with in ME2 should never just be wiped out in ME3. 'Equality' is not worth it when it detracts from the investment in the game for some players.

I agree, that's why I had added Tali in my post, and added Joker/Javik to balance it out. That's why I said it was equal.

And even if they didn't balance it out by adding Tali back in, the choices would be a lot better for femShep than what it is now.

I have nothing against gay femshep but
a) Is not my style
even if it was my style, the choices are awful! Two of them are women Sheppard barely met and they were never in her squad or relevant to Sheppard in any way.
c) I dislike being forced into a role, in a game that gives choices to males. I am new to the ME universe but it seems to me choices and consequences of those choices were a big part of ME2. We female sheppard players get basically told "is Kaidan or go gay".

Seems to me BW decided to ignore female gamers and decided to make fanservice for fanboiys that love "girl on girl" action. And that attitude pisses me off

This! If BW was so bent on taking away femShep's LI choices, they could have at the very least made Garrus available without import.

There was no reason to keep Garrus exclusively import only if they were going to take away Thane and Jacob. If they wanted to retain something special for import femSheps, then they could have had special dialog or something. That would at least insure players starting with ME3 would have at least one male LI available.

For all BW's talk about making ME3 accessible to new players, they sure left new femShep players, especially female ones, out in the cold. Just goes to show they were targeting new male players only.

[Sugarjaye]

DineBoo wrote...

Except she decided to wipe out Kelly and Tali, who were both available as romances in ME2 (tali definitely was, and I know some people like to ignore Kelly, but she could be taken to dinner and danced with... what more do people want? ).

Characters that you could get involved with in ME2 should never just be wiped out in ME3. 'Equality' is not worth it when it detracts from the investment in the game for some players.

I agree, that's why I had added Tali in my post, and added Joker/Javik to balance it out. That's why I said it was equal.

And even if they didn't balance it out by adding Tali back in, the choices would be a lot better for femShep than what it is now.

I have nothing against gay femshep but
a) Is not my style
even if it was my style, the choices are awful! Two of them are women Sheppard barely met and they were never in her squad or relevant to Sheppard in any way.
c) I dislike being forced into a role, in a game that gives choices to males. I am new to the ME universe but it seems to me choices and consequences of those choices were a big part of ME2. We female sheppard players get basically told "is Kaidan or go gay".

Seems to me BW decided to ignore female gamers and decided to make fanservice for fanboiys that love "girl on girl" action. And that attitude pisses me off

This! If BW was so bent on taking away femShep's LI choices, they could have at the very least made Garrus available without import.

There was no reason to keep Garrus exclusively import only if they were going to take away Thane and Jacob. If they wanted to retain something special for import femSheps, then they could have had special dialog or something. That would at least insure players starting with ME3 would have at least one male LI available.

For all BW's talk about making ME3 accessible to new players, they sure left new femShep players, especially female ones, out in the cold. Just goes to show they were targeting new male players only.

This seems like a very sad truth.

[s17tabris]

DineBoo wrote...

For all BW's talk about making ME3 accessible to new players, they sure left new femShep players, especially female ones, out in the cold. Just goes to show they were targeting new male players only.

It wouldn't have been so bad if it was like that for all 3 games.  The problem is that in ME1 and ME2, femshep and manshep were given a more or less equal treatment, insofar as LIs are concerned.  In ME3, femshep (particularly heterosexual femshep) got shafted.

[DineBoo]

It wouldn't have been so bad if it was like that for all 3 games. The problem is that in ME1 and ME2, femshep and manshep were given a more or less equal treatment, insofar as LIs are concerned. In ME3, femshep (particularly heterosexual femshep) got shafted.

This. ME1 and 2 had the same amount of choices. There was a minor quibble that femShep got more aliens and maleShep had more humans, but it was equal.

ME3 comes around and blows femSheps hetero choices out of the water, and only adds same sex options. maleShep rretains his choices and gets new same sex choices.

Could they at least attempted to add a a male character if they were going to take some away? Same sex choices are okay, but even they weren't equal to maleShep's same sex choices.

It is terribly unfair. Why give me choice in ME2 only to take them away? And just because one is dying and one might have been considered a fling does not make it okay, especially when maleShep choices all carry over.

BW treatment of female fans is appaling. This was a series that treated female fans equally. Now they've been abandoned.

[Dont Kaidan Me]

As if being pushed to the side wasn't bad enough... Although I didn't experience this myself, I was told that when Kaidan confronts femshep about "cheating" (hilarious accusation, being dead for two years and then told to take a hike), all three dialog wheel choices are basically apologetic. But if it's broshep and Ashley, broshep gets to call her out. What? That's just not right.

And then there's Jacob. Even if you don't romance him, the dialogue is basically the same as if you did. Femshep comes off as some clingy, jealous freak which makes no sense whatsoever in that scenario. And even if Jacob was romanced, it's still inconsistent with how femshep relates to other characters throughout the game. *shrug* Go figure.

And then there's Liara, who is all up in femshep's grill.

Sorry trend for a game franchise that seemed to be above gender division. But to actually start out with a broad human/species portrayal and regress to an outdated male/female split is a shame.

I also find it ironic, that for all the femshep hype, that she would then get the short end of the stick in the game. Just proves that it was purely marketing hype and had nothing whatsoever to do with "celebrating" the female character.

Unfortunately, this was the last game in the trilogy and a pretty crummy way to wrap it up.

[kumquats]

Since I don't care which gender my Shepard is... hello Cortez. hehe
I'm not surprised, I can count the number of male LI I thought, where awesome on one hand.
Carth, Vector and Thane. And the only one I think is awesome in ME3, is Cortez, since there is no renegade Kaidan.
Ah the next disappointment of ME3.. I have to stop counting them. xD

[Orion1836]

Wait, Vega WASN'T a romance option for femshep? I just finished the game for the first time on my main and haven't even started my femshep yet, but I thought for sure he would be after all the dialogue he had.

[Saodade]

Jiralhanea wrote...

Has anyone noticed how... off the romance choices for Mass Effect 3 were?

LI's for male Shepard: Miranda, Jack, Tali, Cortez, and Ashley

LI's for female Shepard: Garrus, Traynor

LI's for either gender: Kaiden, Kelly, Liara, Diana

Male Shepard gets 9 choices to choose from. 7 are female. 2 are male.
Female Shepard gets 6 choices. 4 are female, 2 are male. [3 including Thane, but I don't believe that actually counts for anything in ME3]

Why is it that femShep comes off as a lesbian for her choices? Male Shep can be with all these fine women.... but Fem Shep really only gets 2 male choices. TWO.
Am I the only one who's a little annoyed with this? It's like Bioware was pushing for femShep to be a lesbian and male Shep gets all the females he could want. Why the hell did they cut Vega out of the romance options for FemShep?
I love Garrus and all, but I'd like some variety... with other MEN. Not other ladies. The only other one I can choose is Kaiden... and I really don't like Kaiden. I hate Diana with a burning passion, Liara is too overdramatic for me at times,  and Kelly... I appreciated that she fed my fish for me in ME2 and that's about it.

I have nothing against gay people, I've got plenty of gay friends and I fully support gay rights. It's just... It's like they played to the men who want to see some lesbian action or something.
Even JAVIK as a romance option would even things out a bit. It would be incredibly awkward... but at least it would even it out :/

I agree with you it is exactly  what I wondered: do they really  expect that  I  become  lesbian for  have a romance? thought  shagging  someone in the shower is just  sex, satisfying bodies  needs, it is not romance yet. Romance is the building of a romantic  story between peoples, the act  of flesh is  part of it as a logical  evolution as would say Jaavik. I was almost scared to  speak to any female member of the crew  after having the  new yeoman raping my  eyes in my own shower just because I let her won  in chess...She is not my type anyhow lol.

Seriously  the industry  of gaming  should  realise that 20 years  ago girls was not that  numerous in this   field. But 20 years  have   passed   and  since   this whole generation almost ALL actual gamers had grown with electronic games,  consoles, computer etc. Girls started from  watcvhing their  boyfriens/husbands/brothers/cousins    play and  tries then  enjoyed  and  after a  moment  they've  got theirs. 

About time to realise this. I remember when I played  some other games 10 years ago first time I went on a  vocal chat for a pvp game the men  there  thought I was a  young boy!! Cause they couldn't  imagine a  girl  could play...Well I 'd  expected  10 years after, it would  be noticed  that  girls  also  love  games. All games not only Alexandra Lederman or  Barbie the  swann lake...

So returning to the romance subject: add  Vega, Javik and why not even Conrad Werner since  he faked  his wife lol.

[Sugarjaye]

Saodade wrote...

Jiralhanea wrote...

Has anyone noticed how... off the romance choices for Mass Effect 3 were?

LI's for male Shepard: Miranda, Jack, Tali, Cortez, and Ashley

LI's for female Shepard: Garrus, Traynor

LI's for either gender: Kaiden, Kelly, Liara, Diana

Male Shepard gets 9 choices to choose from. 7 are female. 2 are male.
Female Shepard gets 6 choices. 4 are female, 2 are male. [3 including Thane, but I don't believe that actually counts for anything in ME3]

Why is it that femShep comes off as a lesbian for her choices? Male Shep can be with all these fine women.... but Fem Shep really only gets 2 male choices. TWO.
Am I the only one who's a little annoyed with this? It's like Bioware was pushing for femShep to be a lesbian and male Shep gets all the females he could want. Why the hell did they cut Vega out of the romance options for FemShep?
I love Garrus and all, but I'd like some variety... with other MEN. Not other ladies. The only other one I can choose is Kaiden... and I really don't like Kaiden. I hate Diana with a burning passion, Liara is too overdramatic for me at times,  and Kelly... I appreciated that she fed my fish for me in ME2 and that's about it.

I have nothing against gay people, I've got plenty of gay friends and I fully support gay rights. It's just... It's like they played to the men who want to see some lesbian action or something.
Even JAVIK as a romance option would even things out a bit. It would be incredibly awkward... but at least it would even it out :/

I agree with you it is exactly  what I wondered: do they really  expect that  I  become  lesbian for  have a romance? thought  shagging  someone in the shower is just  sex, satisfying bodies  needs, it is not romance yet. Romance is the building of a romantic  story between peoples, the act  of flesh is  part of it as a logical  evolution as would say Jaavik. I was almost scared to  speak to any female member of the crew  after having the  new yeoman raping my  eyes in my own shower just because I let her won  in chess...She is not my type anyhow lol.

Seriously  the industry  of gaming  should  realise that 20 years  ago girls was not that  numerous in this   field. But 20 years  have   passed   and  since   this whole generation almost ALL actual gamers had grown with electronic games,  consoles, computer etc. Girls started from  watcvhing their  boyfriens/husbands/brothers/cousins    play and  tries then  enjoyed  and  after a  moment  they've  got theirs. 

About time to realise this. I remember when I played  some other games 10 years ago first time I went on a  vocal chat for a pvp game the men  there  thought I was a  young boy!! Cause they couldn't  imagine a  girl  could play...Well I 'd  expected  10 years after, it would  be noticed  that  girls  also  love  games. All games not only Alexandra Lederman or  Barbie the  swann lake...

So returning to the romance subject: add  Vega, Javik and why not even Conrad Werner since  he faked  his wife lol.

Wait, what... when did we find out he doesn't have a wife....?....actually i don't think i even remember seeing him in 3, where was he?????