48 réponses à ce sujet

[Hulk Hsieh]

Care to post the Damage with both bows?

[Gliese]

TSAdmiral wrote...

George Zeller's hotfix clearly acknowledged issues with ranged weapons damage, so with the current patch altering only daggers, is this a delay, an oversight, or simply a decision that the current system is more preferable? I've seen no other people bring this issue up aside from this topic, despite the uproar over dexterity. What we got in this latest patch is a dagger fix, but not a comprehensive dexterity fix. I simply want to know what designer intension is with this issue. I'm not necessarily whining over the state of the game as is, but instead wondering if it is supposed to be the way it is.

I think they might be looking at a rebalancing which takes time in order to playtest it properly and make sure that the enemy does not become too difficult depending on difficulty level.
What surprises me is that crossbows lacking their dex damage boost weren't fixed. It makes them useless after all which pre-patch daggers are not.

[AXidenT Gamer]

Wait, so which stat is better to pump for an archer Leliana?

[sinosleep]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Care to post the Damage with both bows?

Considering I've already downloaded and installed 1.02 as well as deleted the hotfix not really. What I can tell you is that the difference was big enough for me to go ahead and make the switch. Like I said, EVERY MAGIC BOW in the game worth anything is a longbow. You WILL be switching as soon as you find one, 100% dex damage be damned.

[sinosleep]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

Wait, so which stat is better to pump for an archer Leliana?

Personally the playthrough in which she played the best for me was going with with as close to a 50/50 split of dex and cunning and getting lethality and song of courage. Lethality makes cunning replace strength as a damage modifier while song of courage's attack, damage, and crit boosts are all based on the cunning modifier.

[AXidenT Gamer]

So why keep Dex then?

[Lughsan35]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

So why keep Dex then?

Dex affects hit rate both for bows and melee attacks for rogues and also makes her more 'dodgy'

[sinosleep]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

So why keep Dex then?

Attack rating. I don't like relying on a ton of party buffs and song of courage lone doesn't cut it.

[AXidenT Gamer]

Party buffs could fix that I suppose...

[Pimpmyvanagon]

sinosleep wrote...
Why is that? Every magic bow worth a damn in the game is, you guessed it, a LONGBOW.

The Fox's Bow from Redcliffe isn't bad for a midgame item. Still very outclassed by the tier 7 longbows, though.

It seems to me that longbows would make more sense if they had a minimum Strength requirement to equip, rather than a minimum Dexterity requirement. A bow with a 100+ pound pull is just not something you can finesse.

(For maces, Vanguard is pretty good, especially if you do Orzammar early, but you don't get it if you side with Branka. And in any case it'd be nice if there were a few that were comparable to the tier 7 axes and longswords.)

[TSAdmiral]

Are you serious? They didn't fix the dexterity bonus for crossbows? I really hope they're just tossing all ranged damage into 1.03.

[T0rin3]

sinosleep wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Care to post the Damage with both bows?

Considering I've already downloaded and installed 1.02 as well as deleted the hotfix not really. What I can tell you is that the difference was big enough for me to go ahead and make the switch. Like I said, EVERY MAGIC BOW in the game worth anything is a longbow. You WILL be switching as soon as you find one, 100% dex damage be damned.

This reads to me as: Hi, I love longbows, I'm biased, I don't know what I'm really talking about, but if I sound forceful enough, maybe someone will believe me.

With 100% dex to shortbow damage, shortbows are better, super longbows be damned.

[Dark83]

To respond to those who responded to me: Hi, try actually following Zeller's threads first before acting all indignant and faux-knowledgeable.



Crossbows were bugged, this is true, daggers were bugged, this is true. Bows were functioning as designed. The issue of if the design was good or not is irrelevant to it being broken and in need of fixing - that's a separate balance issue. They're still tweaking that to decide if it's necessary.

Lethality was never supposed to apply to Ranged, it only applies to Melee Crit Chance, and using the crappy borked Tooltips to justify anything is silly. The issue there remains "Man, the tooltips suck".

[Bull000]

I'm confused.... There doesn't seem to be a straigh answer from any of you...

[Loki330]

TSAdmiral wrote...

George Zeller's hotfix clearly acknowledged issues with ranged weapons damage, so with the current patch altering only daggers, is this a delay, an oversight, or simply a decision that the current system is more preferable? I've seen no other people bring this issue up aside from this topic, despite the uproar over dexterity. What we got in this latest patch is a dagger fix, but not a comprehensive dexterity fix. I simply want to know what designer intension is with this issue. I'm not necessarily whining over the state of the game as is, but instead wondering if it is supposed to be the way it is.

In fairness it's said in the hotfix description that the bow fix makes some battles ALOT harder, and it would need to be 'worked in' properly for balance's sake. That means playtesting battles again, and so forth. My money is on the patch coming, it's just taking alot more time than the daggers, which aren't that much an issue

[Matthew Young CT]

Bull000 wrote...

I'm confused.... There doesn't seem to be a straigh answer from any of you...

Crossbows are still broken, shortbows and longbows were never broken so didn't need fixing.

[Aesir Rising]

As an archer, I would love to see bows changed significantly - along with the skill trees.

Scouts are better, with more skill options, in melee and that needs to be changed if I'm ever going to be satisfied with the class.

Warriors might be closer to equal in terms of skill, but right off the bat kick off with a sword & board talent that doesn't do a archtypical ranger justice.

For that matter, the Ranger spec doesn't do that archtype justice. Everything is wrong with that spec - starting with it being the only (?) spec that isn't interesting at all to obtain - it just gets bought. Whoopiee. And from that book you get to have a pet. How WoW. Any reason rangers have to have pets? Can't they just be moderately self-sufficient survivalists that are good with bows and maybe even good with a pair of daggers?

Longbows should require skill (go deep into archery talents) to master, but end up as the best ranged weapon option if someone does make that talent committment. The dedicated archer should want to use longbows. And when I say "better", I mean better in almost all game terms (i.e., range, max damage, accuracy, ROF over crossbows, equal or perhaps slightly slower ROF vs shortbows).

The less practiced archer should look at crossbows - they require less skill to be useful. They won't be the best, but they should be serviceable as a secondary weapon option at low - mid talent point commitments.  Crossbows are for poorly trained militia. As a bonus, crossbows should
be cheaper to purchase than equivalent level bows.

Shortbows should be similar to crossbows in most stats, but with less armor penetration but higher ROF. They should have less range, do less damage, be less accurate and penetrate armor less effectively than longbows. And a critical hit with a shortbow shouldn't relegate longbow to second class status. Shortbows should be most effective for characters with mid-level talent point committments into the Archery tree.

If the game could do it, I might suggest shortbows being more accurate at short and point blank ranges compared to longbows, making them better options for close-quarters (shorter bow limbs are easier to move around in tighter spaces).

That's my dream. But we seem to be stuck on trying to make crossbows better than bows, and shortbows better than longbows. And scouts focusing on melee.

Modifié par Aesir Rising, 08 décembre 2009 - 07:37 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

Bull000 wrote...
I'm confused.... There doesn't seem to be a straigh answer from any of you...

How can "No" be any straighter?

[Dark83]

"no" is straighter horizontally?

[Misterdc]

Now I may be wrong but it's a Back Stab=Critical Attack? So point in case any Rogue skill that increases or causes a Black Stab/Critical Attack should be possible with a Bow. It's just with the Bow it would be more of a shot to the eye or a critical organ causing extra damage.

[Diamaht]

I'd like to post the question again if someone could clarify.



How to does damage get calculated for bows (long and short) after this patch?

[Dark83]

They both get damage from Str and Dex, at 50%/50%.

20 Str (so 10 above 10) and 30 Dex (so 20 above 10) means 5+10=15.

[badtim]

rangers should always have pets. hamsters.

[Nokturnal Lex]

badtim wrote...

rangers should always have pets. hamsters.

Giant Space Hamsters shrunk down to normal size...

Minsc and Boo!

Modifié par Nokturnal Lex, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:27 .