147 réponses à ce sujet

[Steel Majere343]

i included wynn when i said "some variable that must have tipped it way in his favor" lol.

having a healer inevitably makes it easier yes.



but if you beat him at level 10, i think thats something wrong with the dragon itself then because that thing is supposed to own you when you first encounter it, especially at level 10. since its like level 16.



Im trying the arcane tower over again, im doing a report on this games mechanics. (advanced game design study). and so far im not seeing how such a risky system was employed. This system would work for everyone if there was some obsolete place that players could go to whenever they felt they needed a few levels and level up until they found the challenges sufficient.



with this design there are basically 6 starting hubs which all have minimum and maximum levels, just as well they lock in at a level once you enter the zone for the first time (for instance if you can make it to the deep roads at level 8, the deep roads will lock in at that level and should you come back at level 20, you would be able to steamroll everything). This idea is great and brilliant until executed (almost like oblivion).



basically im finding that its not fixing my issues like i was promised. i was promised that if i go into an area and start finding it too hard i could leave, go somewhere else, come back later and itd be fun and dandy times.



however, like i said itd be great if there was a constant leveling dungeon and itd probly work ok, as it stands iv run out of places to go haha. where do you go when youv employed the "ill come back later when im stronger muwhaha!" attitude to every zone in the game that is within your reach?. once again i could get past these places if i employed wynn or a lot of potions but these should not be necessary to have fun.



so im at a loss as to what im advised to do currently.

[Nighteye2]

The game is balanced with some form of healing in mind - having a party with at least 1 mage with at least the heal spell.



My previous playthrough on Hard I used morrigan for healing, I gave her the 4 creation spells up to mass rejuvenation. It's enough the beat the game with.

[Palathas]

I've got one character on Hard but the rest are on Easy(Is it called casual on the consoles?). I play games to relax and have fun, not to be challenged and frustrated, there are enough challenges and frustrations in my life without my entertainment adding to them.

Although on the whole Hard is more difficult than Easy I've certain come across quite a few instances where the battles are just as difficult in Easy as they are in Hard.

Modifié par Palathas, 09 décembre 2009 - 03:20 .

[SeanMurphy2]

I can understand how easy could still be difficult due to the same composition of the enemies.

You could be outnumbered. Or there could be an enemy mage positioned deeper. So it helps to have certain spells like a group stun/destruction spell or to able to fireball/crushing prison the mage.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 09 décembre 2009 - 03:30 .

[GhostMatter]

I've always played Normal except near the end when it really got very easy, I switched to hard and barely saw a difference... I guess I was too well equipped and trained.



For some reason, the boss fights were always easier, just keep pumping buffs and potions. The battles that forced to use tactics the most were the alley fights and that random fight with an undead who teleports in the Brecilian Ruins...

[fantasypisces]

I guess I need to revise my statements some. At the beginning, lower levels, Normal and up seems to be very difficult. But as you get gear, it becomes easier. For instance, I did quite a bit of nightmare mode later in the game and had no problems, but starting on normal my third playthrough and I am getting my butt handed to me so far.



For instance, the Revenant in the Mage tower for a level 8 group. used 10 lesser health poultices, 6 health poultices, 7 lyrium poultices. Had AW, Leliana, Alistair, and Wynne, and my group (even after using all that and Wynne doing nothing but healing) still wiped with the Revenant having a third life left.



So I'm curious what everyone does when they say they had no problems in normal. Because my characters just die from too much damage.

[Steel Majere343]

even on casual (yes its casual for the consoles) iv found some challenging parts. the only way to really just sit back in general is to either have a healer or t buy a whole bunch of potions. just be really well stocked before you go out and, if your on normal, avoid areas you arnt ready for. if your going to kill the dalish buy thousands of elves and store them in the keep. because even one easy you will need potions sometimes.

[fantasypisces]

Since the Revenant on normal complaint. I have just been playing on hard mode.... and haven't had a problem. Me thinks either my game is messed up or something is wrong with normal difficulty.... seeing as how hard has been the same if not a tad easier than normal.

[Steel Majere343]

i literally think my game is now bugged. i just got into a random encounter i have 165 potions, before i could even tell sten to heal, he was gone. i got wiped with 100 potions left.



screw this, at least on casual i had fun.



as far as my report goes iv yet to see any evidence that this system works, though a superiorly fun game in general as it is as far as im concerned "normal" is not normal at all. believe it or not my first time through the game was easier.



if anyone has anything else to add that may be insightfull to the game and this system please letme know now while i still write my report.

[Inakhia]

...I'm still not sure how people are loosing party members so rapidly in random encounters. Short of constantly charging in for full frontal assaults? If you dont have a mage, your going to have to accept that you will loose a party member or two to spells like Crushing Prison and Curse of Mortality. But careful use of traps, poisons and bombs should overcome most of that, as well as consistent use of AoE stuns and knockdowns.

[Steel Majere343]

well ya theres the AoE stuns and such, mainly it has a lot to do with mages and archers i think. they just pummle your party.



i was tying to play without worrying at all about potions and crap and to just have fun, but even on easy, i tried to do the mage tower and fight the final boss demon guy. even on casual i was the last one alive, zero potions, running around trying to cast that stupid piece of paper that barely did any damage.



not fun.



after that is when i encountered a whole hord of fire demons in the woods as well as an assassin group, both proceeded to own 2 out of 4 of my members. its like common, its on easy for crying out loud lol. i mean even on normal it shouldnt be that difficult.

[Varenus Luckmann]

I sit firmly in the "It's too easy" camp, having no issues playing Nightmare and tearing off tufts of hair every time the game difficulty is nerfed further because of the ocean of inept whiners.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

[...]

nightmare has almost no freedom in devolping your characters, you need to have stats exactly in the right place along with the right spells and use every tactic available (even cheap ones, like the cone of cold rapid fire where you have 2 or 3 mages that just continuesly lock enemies).

[...]

That's a complete lie. You can face Nightmare with nearly any build or combination of classes, as long as you're not doing sheer-out retarded builds such as mixing 2H and Archery or Shields and DW.

[Steel Majere343]

if i could i would post a video of it, it was insane, idk if its a bug or something but that guy was NOT my level and it was NOT on easy. no matter what the tab in my options said.



i used all five potions and still had to run around crazed, on easy you shouldnt have to use any potions, hell if it was designed correctly you shouldnt have to use any potions on normal either. potions shouldnt be a necessity.



yes yes i know they offer you wynn earlier in the tower and she probly would have made things easier, however, the three distinct classes in this game are warrior, rogue, and mage. and the game should be doable comfortably with only those classes, if a healer is recomended then there should be another class type..healer.



as it stands right now im fairly irritated. as im losing a lot of party members without using potions even on easy. but i suppose thats better then losing ALL of my party members even with hundreds of potions on normal.



i dont understand how some have it so easy while others dont, i dont see any variable that would cause such a playability gap unless its some kind of bug.

[Steel Majere343]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I sit firmly in the "It's too easy" camp, having no issues playing Nightmare and tearing off tufts of hair every time the game difficulty is nerfed further because of the ocean of inept whiners.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

[...]

nightmare has almost no freedom in devolping your characters, you need to have stats exactly in the right place along with the right spells and use every tactic available (even cheap ones, like the cone of cold rapid fire where you have 2 or 3 mages that just continuesly lock enemies).

[...]

That's a complete lie. You can face Nightmare with nearly any build or combination of classes, as long as you're not doing sheer-out retarded builds such as mixing 2H and Archery or Shields and DW.

how many potions do you use? do you stun camp? and do you use wynn?, do you max out dex on your warriors?

if all of these are no then we must not be playing the same game here.

if you could see my game, im sure you would say "wtf" in your head, its quit ridiculas.

[Varenus Luckmann]

I sincerely don't see what's fun about Easy or Casual. It gives about the same average challenge as drooling in your lap or watching the TV. While yes, I can somewhat understand that some people "play for the story", there really are some good TV shows and movies out there. You may think that you've watched them all, but I doubt it.

As for the OP, the way you write completely gives away your mental capacity. There's nothing surprising in that "some" find the game incredibly hard at all.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I sit firmly in the "It's too easy" camp, having no issues playing Nightmare and tearing off tufts of hair every time the game difficulty is nerfed further because of the ocean of inept whiners.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

[...]

nightmare has almost no freedom in devolping your characters, you need to have stats exactly in the right place along with the right spells and use every tactic available (even cheap ones, like the cone of cold rapid fire where you have 2 or 3 mages that just continuesly lock enemies).

[...]

That's a complete lie. You can face Nightmare with nearly any build or combination of classes, as long as you're not doing sheer-out retarded builds such as mixing 2H and Archery or Shields and DW.

how many potions do you use? do you stun camp? and do you use wynn?, do you max out dex on your warriors?

if all of these are no then we must not be playing the same game here.

if you could see my game, im sure you would say "wtf" in your head, its quit ridiculas.

This game is unfortunately not too good for save sharing, or I'd take that game in a heartbeat.

I have no idea how many poultices I use. A lot of lesser lyrium; not so many health poultices. I have no idea what "stun camp" means, so I'm going to go ahead and say "no". I do indeed use Wynne, but I've (re-)specced her to be completely Creation/Spirit, so there's almost no CC or Damage whatsoever - on the upside, I have plenty of buffs. I don't use Dex as my primary stat for any of my warriors, at least not in my current party.

My current party on Nightmare (put on hold until Return to Ostagar is released) consists of me (Shield Warrior), Alistair (Shield Warrior), Leliana (For the romance, definately not for her "excellent" archery) and Wynne (For grandmotherly love, of course).

[Steel Majere343]

i think it more reflects on you seeing as how youv resorted to trying to attack me with that smart little comment about "There's nothing surprising that "some" find the game incredibly hard at all".



that "some" as you put it is obviously a lot of people. the way someone writes in a forum also does not show any reflection of a persons mental capacity. maturity yes, as your demonstrating. but i am working on a phd in computer programming, i work hard, and though i do not consider myself a brilliant mind i do say that i am worth more then that little crack you tried to whip.



back to the topic at hand i asked you some questions as i am trying to understand how this is working within the consumer mind, if you dont want to answer them then please do not resort to putting down others.



im beginning to think it has more to do with the order then i originally thought, as i think back to my first playthrough i did the entire game without worry of difficulty until orzammar. then i started to turn it down to easy sometimes.



this game doesnt require that much thinking, ever really, MMOs dont require much thinking. As i stated earlier there's only so many ways to approach a fight without taking skills and talents into the equation.



when you start considering skills and talents players may not have those thus they may be subject to unbalanced gameplay.



you obviously didnt understand the appeal of fable then. as you cant die in that game so you go through the entire game without fear of death, so really no challenge other then losing experience.



yet that was one of the funnest games, but at the same time im a huge demons souls fan, so i like the incredibly hard as well.



but i know where the line is drawn if something is my own fault of death or if i died with little input whatsoever and i know that these deaths are at no cause of my own, other then not buying enough potions perhaps or not getting wynn.

[Steel Majere343]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Steel Majere343 wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I sit firmly in the "It's too easy" camp, having no issues playing Nightmare and tearing off tufts of hair every time the game difficulty is nerfed further because of the ocean of inept whiners.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

[...]

nightmare has almost no freedom in devolping your characters, you need to have stats exactly in the right place along with the right spells and use every tactic available (even cheap ones, like the cone of cold rapid fire where you have 2 or 3 mages that just continuesly lock enemies).

[...]

That's a complete lie. You can face Nightmare with nearly any build or combination of classes, as long as you're not doing sheer-out retarded builds such as mixing 2H and Archery or Shields and DW.

how many potions do you use? do you stun camp? and do you use wynn?, do you max out dex on your warriors?

if all of these are no then we must not be playing the same game here.

if you could see my game, im sure you would say "wtf" in your head, its quit ridiculas.

This game is unfortunately not too good for save sharing, or I'd take that game in a heartbeat.

I have no idea how many poultices I use. A lot of lesser lyrium; not so many health poultices. I have no idea what "stun camp" means, so I'm going to go ahead and say "no". I do indeed use Wynne, but I've (re-)specced her to be completely Creation/Spirit, so there's almost no CC or Damage whatsoever - on the upside, I have plenty of buffs. I don't use Dex as my primary stat for any of my warriors, at least not in my current party.

My current party on Nightmare (put on hold until Return to Ostagar is released) consists of me (Shield Warrior), Alistair (Shield Warrior), Leliana (For the romance, definately not for her "excellent" archery) and Wynne (For grandmotherly love, of course).

if your going to stop trying to put me dpwn and everyone else who may think the game is way too hard as well then if you would. id ask that you play the game without wynn for a time. and letme know if the game still feels balanced.

without wynn and without a myriad of lesser health potions, basically pretend you dont know about that guy in the elf camp.

if you did this and found it was still balanced ill have to go through the game again with a diffrent set up as ill trust your findings.

but in general me and the other fellow (hes up there somewhere) have found that without wynn and/or an insane amount of potions the game balance is hugely disrupted, both on normal and casual. although casual you will still get buy but certain battles will kill some of your party members if not kill YOU outright a few times. at least thats my perspective so far

[Steel Majere343]

so far i believe that if you play the game without wynn and without using that potion vendor and without any healing what-so-ever besides the potions the game gives you, your basically up a creek.not counting stun camping and the like of course (stun camping is when you repeatadly cast spells that will stun or take enemies out of combat). if you are just trying to play the game and you dont want wynn and you dont abuse the elfroot vendor the game becomes a lot harder

[fantasypisces]

If I was the other 'fellow' up there you mentioned, I have no problem with Easy(Casual). In fact I find it too easy. I am, however, one of those people that plays for the story. So my first playthrough was about 1/4 normal mode and 3/4 easy mode. My second playthrough was about 1/3 easy 1/3 normal 1/3 hard/nightmare (with hard and nightmare being the endgame).



My only real complaint is that at times, Normal can seem a bit too difficult, as I related by a story above. Getting my butt handed to me in normal, so switching to hard mode (to torment myself some, I don't know) and found it the exact same. The difference was, hard is supposed to be hard.



For normal mode I could of course beat it. For Hard mode the bosses kick my toosh because I can't hurt them. So if anyone had suggestions for making melee DPS do more damage at lower level, I would I appreciate it. (an example, is the desire daemon and mind controlled templar in the tower -- on hard mode Leliana was doing about 3 damage and only hitting 1/3 the time. Alistair was doing 4 damage and hitting only half the time. Had Alistair cleanse the area thinking it was magic effect, but nope, was just the scaling I guess -- and that was with using frost weapons, mind you).



Anyway, to summarize.

Easy is too Easy

Normal is a bit hard to be considered normal (for an average player).

Hard is good relative to how it is described (but my melee dps sucks, if anyone has any advice)

End game once you have gear all the difficulties become trivial. (my second playthrough as mentioned above, steamrolled through nightmare drakon tower, but they were geared to the teeth).

[Emryc]

I'm no hardcore gamer, but I do not find it too difficult. Although I must say I only played on casual and normal.

[BroBear Berbil]

I play on Nightmare, always. I don't find it restrictive as you described in regards to tactics. I always build my characters for specific roles anyway but as far as being forced to use cheap tactics, I am not. In my last play through my party had almost no CC or AoE to speak of, Wynne had maybe 2 or 3 damage spells, Lel's ranger pet was more useful than she was, and I was still able to get through every encounter quite easily with the exception of like two Back Alley Justice fights because of enemy scattershots.



For the most part fights only get easier the further you get in the game.

[magor1988x]

Super tl;dr... Makes it hard to jump in late.



I've played on switching between Easy, Normal, and Hard so far. Fights against bosses are much harder then fights against normals, even large groups of normals.



The annoying points come when a character gets one or two shot with little player ability to save them, outside of cheap moves or play restricting moves.



Wynne becomes a necessary character, as does a dedicated tank (Yourself, Shale, or Alistair, or using a mod to wipe Oghren or Sten of their talents). Even these dedicated tanks, with a dedicated healer, can get one shot if specced and armed properly. This is the case against the early Ogres and Ogre Alphas, Dragons, and Revenants.



For me, large groups of normals or a yellow or two made for hectic gameplay, but controllable.



It's the boss fights that were a bit annoying, because in one to two hits you could find your tank dead.



I don't mind playing to min/max or specialize. I find it odd that someone would want to play a part Dual Wielding part Archery Rogue. I like min/maxing (to a degree) and focusing down one path.



I haven't found many "useless" talents or abilities. Abilities that one can never find a use for and are wastes of space. There are plenty of situational abilities, but most are pretty handy in some form or fashion.



Anyhow, Nightmare in some ways didn't seem Nightmare enough from the Enemy health pool perspective. Enemy damage output reaches truly ridiculous proportions compared to (sane) player strategies (IE- One Tank, one Rogue, one Healer, and one open slot for another DPS) and forces the player to take on annoying group compositions- Such as the aformention triple Cone of Cold.



A more entertaining Nightmare mode would tone down on damage out, while increasing health pools to make for more of an endurance test between the player and the boss.

[Original182]

I don't know why games no longer seem to add this in, but I would have liked for the hardest difficulty to unlock special or "true" endings. It gives people more incentive to play higher difficulties.

[fantasypisces]

OnionXI, I agree that as you go on even nightmare becomes trivial (well, except maybe bosses, I haven't done bosses on nightmare), but how did you fare early in the game on nightmare, with no CC? At low level even on normal I find myself having to use CC.



I guess my biggest gripe is I did the storyline through Easy, so I wanted to play harder difficulties so I would have to think about the game (since I'm not just paying attention to story). I thought, hey, an Arcane Warrior would be really fun! But so far, at level 9, I haven't been much of an Arcane Warrior because I am constantly having to throw cone of colds, force field, prison, and throw out the occasional heal (if Wynne is there) or a lot of heals (if Wynne is not there).



The playstyle for the Arcane Warrior, or so I gather, is to blow all your mana on CC, some damage, some healing, whatever, then go into sustained and wade in for the autoattack. But I can't do that on normal so far. I do my CC, some damage, some healing, turn on my sustainables, get maybe two-three hits on the mob only to turn around and see all my CC broken, but I'm out of mana now. So I have to turn off my sustainables, drink a pot, and re-cc everything. By that point I'm thinking, why am I an arcane warrior?