147 réponses à ce sujet

[Varenus Luckmann]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

[...]

this game doesnt require that much thinking, ever really, MMOs dont require much thinking. As i stated earlier there's only so many ways to approach a fight without taking skills and talents into the equation.

[...]

Which is sort of the problem. And no, MMO:s doesn't require thinking, overall. The market is a bit too big to peg all of them as fitting for the drooling masses.

Steel Majere343 wrote...
you obviously didnt understand the appeal of fable then. as you cant die in that game so you go through the entire game without fear of death, so really no challenge other then losing experience.

Of course I didn't see the appeal of Fable, apart from when you really feel like drooling and completely zone out.

Steel Majere343 wrote...yet that was one of the funnest games, but at the same time im a huge demons souls fan, so i like the incredibly hard as well.

No amount of facepalm will suffice here.

Steel Majere343 wrote...
but i know where the line is drawn if something is my own fault of death or if i died with little input whatsoever and i know that these deaths are at no cause of my own, other then not buying enough potions perhaps or not getting wynn.

What are you talking about? If someone is victorious while you're failing, under comparable conditions, the fault is entirely your own.

Have you considered thinking? Perhaps it's your very lack of input that leaves you failing so monumentally?

[Murdario]

i've played it twice through now, both times on nightmare and 2h warrior(which really seems to be the weakest class). the first one was moderately challenging because i had no clue what spells to use in what situation. the second was rather easy after i started using the spells more and understood what they actually did.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Steel Majere343 wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I sit firmly in the "It's too easy" camp, having no issues playing Nightmare and tearing off tufts of hair every time the game difficulty is nerfed further because of the ocean of inept whiners.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

[...]

nightmare has almost no freedom in devolping your characters, you need to have stats exactly in the right place along with the right spells and use every tactic available (even cheap ones, like the cone of cold rapid fire where you have 2 or 3 mages that just continuesly lock enemies).

[...]

That's a complete lie. You can face Nightmare with nearly any build or combination of classes, as long as you're not doing sheer-out retarded builds such as mixing 2H and Archery or Shields and DW.

how many potions do you use? do you stun camp? and do you use wynn?, do you max out dex on your warriors?

if all of these are no then we must not be playing the same game here.

if you could see my game, im sure you would say "wtf" in your head, its quit ridiculas.

This game is unfortunately not too good for save sharing, or I'd take that game in a heartbeat.

I have no idea how many poultices I use. A lot of lesser lyrium; not so many health poultices. I have no idea what "stun camp" means, so I'm going to go ahead and say "no". I do indeed use Wynne, but I've (re-)specced her to be completely Creation/Spirit, so there's almost no CC or Damage whatsoever - on the upside, I have plenty of buffs. I don't use Dex as my primary stat for any of my warriors, at least not in my current party.

My current party on Nightmare (put on hold until Return to Ostagar is released) consists of me (Shield Warrior), Alistair (Shield Warrior), Leliana (For the romance, definately not for her "excellent" archery) and Wynne (For grandmotherly love, of course).

if your going to stop trying to put me dpwn and everyone else who may think the game is way too hard as well then if you would. id ask that you play the game without wynn for a time. and letme know if the game still feels balanced.

without wynn and without a myriad of lesser health potions, basically pretend you dont know about that guy in the elf camp.

if you did this and found it was still balanced ill have to go through the game again with a diffrent set up as ill trust your findings.

but in general me and the other fellow (hes up there somewhere) have found that without wynn and/or an insane amount of potions the game balance is hugely disrupted, both on normal and casual. although casual you will still get buy but certain battles will kill some of your party members if not kill YOU outright a few times. at least thats my perspective so far

I haven't even been to the Brecilian Forest yet. There's more than enough health poultices to go around without abusing Lesser Health Poultice production. But if you want to use no poultices at all, then I'm sorry - you're just not using your characters or their skills properly. Making poultices and preparing for a fight is as much part of the game as swinging your sword or casting spells.

And I'm not putting everyone that thinks the game is hard down. Some people aren't hardcore gamers and others are very casual. But if you're still failing on Normal or Easy, I am terribly sorry - but you're just completely inept and it oozes from your every word.

[BroBear Berbil]

fantasypisces wrote...

OnionXI, I agree that as you go on even nightmare becomes trivial (well, except maybe bosses, I haven't done bosses on nightmare), but how did you fare early in the game on nightmare, with no CC? At low level even on normal I find myself having to use CC.

Almost no CC. I should elaborate, I didn't use things like Force Field, CoC, Shattering Shot, Mind Blast, Paralyze, Sleep, Horror, etc. My character in the play through I mentioned was a 2h warrior which is a pretty excellent talent tree despite what some people might say. I had plenty of abilities on that character, as well as raw dps, to shut down any enemy caster early into a fight. I spent a majority of my gold that play to gear up Allistair in the best accessories and got him the best armor so melee enemies really weren't much of a threat to him. That left myself, Lel, and her pet to take care of enemy ranged and a Two Handed Sweep offers some breathing room to get my tank healed if I need it.

Lower levels are definitely the trickiest for me but generally I limit how many enemies I fight at a time by pulling. If I can see the enemy group I'll pull about half of them and most of the time they're staggered as they reach my group which is even better. If I were to try to take on a full group of bandits in Lothering for example, I would most likely end up with a very sloppy victory and use more health poultices than necessary. There are of course those fights where you just can't pull and in those fights I just toughed it out. I did the Dalish quest pretty early on with that character and that ended up being a very sloppy final battle but Broodmother, Revenants, and the 3 major dragon bosses were all very easy for the group.

My party definitely had its flaws but overcoming them made it much more fun for me. I've played with CoC and Force Field set ups before but those playstyles left me feeling very bored. My new character is a mage and will be grouped with Morrigan but they won't be sharing the same CC abilities, that's for sure.

Modifié par OnionXI, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:46 .

[Ieldra]

Ah, the eternal difficulty debate. Here are my impressions:



In my first game, I played on "normal", and many battles were frustratingly hard.

In hindsight, there were several reasons for this:

(1) I played a mage with mainly Entropy spells, and I had no mage with elemental spells excepts Wynne's Earth line in my party.

(2) I visited a few hard areas where battles did not seem to scale correctly.

(3) I hadn't learned to skill a rogue effectively.

(4) I had Leliana as my rogue, and archers come into their power late.



Now I'm in my second playthrough, and things sometimes seem so easy that I check the difficulty setting to check if I hadn't inadvertently switched to "casual". There are several reasons for this:



(1) I'm playing a melee rogue who is as good as a second tank as long as you can keep enemy mages from casting.

(2) I installed the "No follower auto-level" mod in order to re-skill my companions once when I get them. I give them talents in the same areas the game would give them to keep their profile intact, I just select better ones.

(3) I've learned to skill a rogue.

(4) I know which encounters to avoid early in the game.



So, when I repeated the battle against the White Falcons (you get them automatically when you return from the Pearl to the Denerim Market), it seemed ridiculously easy on "normal", while, in my first playthrough, I had to switch to "casual" and even then I was left with my main character standing at the end. The only fight which was harder on my second playthrough was against Flemeth, because I visited her earlier (her level is capped at 15) and you need ranged power there and I had significantly less of that.



Where does that leave me in the difficulty debate? I say "normal" is still the way to go, because I want to play *interesting* characters, not always the most efficient ones. My rogue is very efficient, my next mage will be less so I guess. I also don't play the game for its battles, but for the story, and one of the biggest disappointments for me was that you can't convince Loghain to give up by using persuasion. For me, "normal" is now what it should be, i.e. normal and reasonably balanced, with many easy and and average fight and some difficult ones. Just as I like it. But the learning curve was steeper than in most other games.

[fantasypisces]

Anything special you do against Revenants? So far on normal it was the only thing that I thought "yeaahh, I will come back to that later" Simply because I couldn't hurt him/her/it. The one in the circle tower (group about level 8, was two-shotting everyone! Well, Alistair could take three blows.

[XOGHunter246]

nightmare

[fantasypisces]

Varenus, I agree that for the most part MMO's don't require thinking. Except some situations and some pvp. I have played a lot of games, another reason I am frustrated with my apparent lack of ability on harder difficulties for this game.



For MMO's I consider myself a good player (much better than average)

For FPS I am terrible, but I never play them so that might be why.

For RTS I am rather bad, I get caught up with watching one fight and neglecting others on the other side of the map.

For RPG games I consider myself a good player. I got bored of Neverwinter Nights because it was a cake walk on the highest difficulty. Balder's Gate I and II, Icewind Dale, etc etc never really posed a problem except for certain places. But I am struggling at normal for Dragon Age, not sure why.

[Ieldra]

fantasypisces wrote...

Anything special you do against Revenants? So far on normal it was the only thing that I thought "yeaahh, I will come back to that later" Simply because I couldn't hurt him/her/it. The one in the circle tower (group about level 8, was two-shotting everyone! Well, Alistair could take three blows.

Revenants always have a minimum level of...what was it, 12? Which means, they're designed to mop the floor with low-level parties. Don't even try. Apart from that, Mark of Death combined with Paralyze ist the most efficient boss-killer I have found so far. Cast both on the Revenant, and your chances of killing it before it comes out of being paralyzed are pretty good. But I've only tried it at levels 14+.

[GmanFresh]

i like it on casual

[BroBear Berbil]

fantasypisces wrote...

Anything special you do against Revenants? So far on normal it was the only thing that I thought "yeaahh, I will come back to that later" Simply because I couldn't hurt him/her/it. The one in the circle tower (group about level 8, was two-shotting everyone! Well, Alistair could take three blows.

I always fight them no matter the level because I can't be bothered to run back through the tower or wheverever else. Obviously, it's slow but there's not much risk of wiping.

Most important thing is to have your tank taunt it and then turn it away from your group so it won't pull people. Then it's a really long tank and spank if you're low level. Just be aware that if you have any melee in there besides the tank they'll still take damage from Double Strike but you can run out when it uses it and take just 1 hit instead of 2 and a lesser healing poultice will cover most of the damage. If you have a mage with Heroic Offense, use it.

Alistair shouldn't be dying so fast even if he's only in heavy armor. Of course, I'm going by the assumption you have somebody that can heal. Maybe set your tactics to cast heal when Alistair is <75% health and be ready to use cheap poultices to help out. Bigger poultices if he's about to fall.

Once I got a few levels and my dps warrior got some more attack he could tear through a revenant pretty quickly. Armor debuffs really help once you can hit.

Modifié par OnionXI, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[PsychoMunkys]

i played night mare until the final battel i just got my ass handed to me,now i play normal its a little to easy but i enjoy not having to pray to the maker that i get to live to fight a other day

[keesio74]

I played on HARD and find it quite enjoyable. The reason I chose hard is because I wanted 100% friendly fire damage for more realism.



While HARD is quite challenging, I am enjoying it without an optimal build. I don't have a pure healing mage and I have passed up opportunities to get optimal gear and such because I am playing more for roleplaying than just building a kick ass party.



The drawback is that combat can take time and I need to constantly make health points and such. But I love the challenge.

[Klystron]

I did my 1st playthrough on hard for the challenge, but always played with at least 2 mages & often 3. Now I'm doing 2nd playthrough on normal (and with the advantages of knowing what to expect, how to build, etc) so I'll have more freedom to mix up party members & enjoy the dialogue lols.

Kind of backwards from how most people do it, I gather.

[Ratnix]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I sincerely don't see what's fun about Easy or Casual. It gives about the same average challenge as drooling in your lap or watching the TV. While yes, I can somewhat understand that some people "play for the story", there really are some good TV shows and movies out there. You may think that you've watched them all, but I doubt it.
As for the OP, the way you write completely gives away your mental capacity. There's nothing surprising in that "some" find the game incredibly hard at all.

I actually WATCH TV or a movie while I play video games. Either on their own are both mindnumbing. And as far as there are some good TV show, I would like to know what they are, cause all the crap that people call good are not entertaining to me at all.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are somebody who actually has time to sit and play video games for hours at a time. I am lucky if I get an entire hour to play a game at at time, the very rare times I get to spend close to 2 hours playing is like being on vacation. So far it has taken me 3 days to get through the werewolf area on easy mode. Not because it is so hard, because it wasn't, but because that is how little time I have to play in one sitting.
I don't play games to be challenged. I play games to relax and have a little fun after a long day of dealing with lazy incompetent morons. The last thing I want to do is have to spend a week of my play time(about 6 hours) trying to get past a couple of encounters. At that rate, one play through on any game would take me the better part of a year.

If I was a leech or a no-lifer who has nothing better to do than sit on my backside and play video games all day, I would have no problem playing on the hardest difficulty levels. But having a full time job and a life, video games, to me, are like going out on their days off for people who actually get days off.  I shouldn't have to chose between playing a video game and watching a movie or TV, That is just flat out stupidity.

[SleepyBird]

Normal difficulty felt just right for me, some battles required quite a few tries to get through, which only made it more satisfying to finally complete them. Challenging without being deeply frustrating. Perfect for a fairly casual gamer like me.



Nightmare sounds like it would live up to it's name, I'm not even faintly interested in trying that.

[MGeezer]

I played first time on hard, and with 2 and 3 mage parties, and found the game similar in challenge to BG1 the first time through--some boss vitories go smoothly, a few require multiple reloads. This is a reasonable level of challenge for me.
By my second or third runthrough I was soloing the game or playing on insane. By the time of BG 2, I was soloing the game firs time through with minimal reloads.
I am now on my second run-through and, so far finding the game remarkably easy in spite of a seriously gimped party.
So I can imagine if there are people smarter than I or simply stumble on the right tactics sooner than I or maybe even do things that strike me as just too cheesy would find even the first run-through on nightmare easy. I had enough trouble with some battles, and do enough things that seem to some people cheesy that I can readily imagine why some people find the game too hard.
I do not see any need to insult the intellifgence or tast of those who prefer different difficuly levels however.

PS--another factor that may make a difference, I am a total micro-manager of every character and turn tactics and AI off, and put everyone on hold position.

Modifié par MGeezer, 09 décembre 2009 - 07:21 .

[Steel Majere343]

i just wanted to thank everone for the input, i turned in my report and got an A, i made my conclusion to the end that if you are not familier with how to build characters and what is demanded of you then the game will seem hard even on normal.

but if you know how each character should be built, where points go, etc. then your characters will excel.

for example a friend of mine recently looked at my game and he too wondered how i could be dying so fast.

he shared with me a few tips that id like to pass on here and see if anyone else uses them or finds them necessary.

for one he told me tanks should always have a higher constitution then even their strength rating, its what makes shale the numero uno tank. he told me the tank strategy he uses is dextarity and strength are usually almost equal while constitution is almost alway double their ratings. which is why sten takes some work before he becomes a beastly tank, as hes mostly built for backup with a high strength and a lower constitution (true? false? i cant remember his initial stats), now hes saying that you could also at least upgrade them all equally, he says that dextarity is just as important because that IS the defense rating, constitution is health and then youv got your attack in the strength stat. he said hes heard of people doing tanks where they just invest a lot into constitution and ignore dextarity, but he thinks that way the tank just takes too much damage, they have to avoid some of it.

then he explained that rogues should, most of all, invest most of their points in dextarity and cunning (as later on you get the ability to use your cunning score for strength anyways) and only put some of your points into strength just to use some of the upper tier weapons and armor, or he said you could probly do it the oposite way and put the most points into dex and strength but then you wouldnt get the armor penitration bonus. but youd be able to wield better stuff quicker.

mages he told me are the easiest because you just need to put a lot of points into magic and then the rest dump into willpower.

my characters do not look like this, sten has a constitution in the teens while his strength is like 40, his dextarity is like 20.

my rogue is similar but i put points in willpower because i wanted him to be able to use a lot of abilities.

my mage was good, as i put all of my points into those two stats.

he explained that is why im having such a difficulty, can anyone confirm this?

Modifié par Steel Majere343, 09 décembre 2009 - 08:48 .

[BroBear Berbil]

Steel Majere343 wrote...
for one he told me tanks should always have a higher constitution then even their strength rating, its what makes shale the numero uno tank. he told me the tank strategy he uses is dextarity and strength are usually almost equal while constitution is almost alway double their ratings. which is why sten takes some work before he becomes a beastly tank, as hes mostly built for backup with a high strength and a lower constitution (true? false? i cant remember his initial stats)

I'm not sure how possible this is with Alistair. If you plan on gearing him in the best massive armor you need 38 or 42 strength depending on the armor set you choose to wear. By level 21 my Alistair had 38 str, something like 42 dex, and a little over 20 base constitution I believe. Even had I wanted higher constitution I wouldn't have had many points I could have spent differently, nor would I have wanted to, since the only other points I spent were a small amount in willpower which was sorely needed.

However, you don't need to build up constitution more than I did. Lifegiver pretty much handles it. In the early levels you want to build up Alistair's strength so he can meet the requirements for early massive armor (~28 str). After that I was putting 2str 1dex until I reached the goal of 38str. After that build up dex and maybe alternate a point for con/wis. It's what I did. 

The real key things for tank survivability are defense rating, good mage support, gear, and fighting enemies on your terms. If you're wise with your money and do most sidequests you can easily afford to equip your tank in the best possible accessories and still afford one of the pricey weapons for a mage or rogue. As for fighting enemies on your terms, I mean pull when you can or just know that you don't always need to have your tank holding everything.

then he explained that rogues should, most of all, invest most of their points in dextarity and cunning (as later on you get the ability to use your cunning score for strength anyways) and only put some of your points into strength just to use some of the upper tier weapons and armor, or he said you could probly do it the oposite way and put the most points into dex and strength but then you wouldnt get the armor penitration bonus. but youd be able to wield better stuff quicker.

This is more true now with the new patch. Before the patch if you were Dex/Cun you were missing out on a lot of damage because Dex wasn't working right. At this point, with a rogue, whether or not you want strength is entirely dependent on if you're building for dual-wielding full sized weapons or daggers. Melee rogues are pretty easy to assign stats for and the combat is very simple as well. Most of the potency comes from passive talents and weapon enchants.

mages he told me are the easiest because you just need to put a lot of points into magic and then the rest dump into willpower.

This is pretty much right. Magic > Willpower in an offensive caster. Willpower > Magic in a support caster. If you're a blood mage you'd want to mix some constitution in there. The strength from mages isn't so much from the simple stats but from the huge array of spells and combos this game has for mages. Mages are a bit on the overpowered side when it comes to crowd clearing. I'd definitely suggest getting Affliction Hex early on. It helps bring mage dps closer to a rogue or warrior's during boss fights and it makes AoE that much more powerful too.

[SSH83]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

... you can quickly move your party around corners to avoid the archers.  Those particular archers will stay put while you pick off the leader and the close combat mobs.  Then you mop up the rest.

That's what I wanted to share.  Line of sight tricks work wonders in most RPG.  Take cover to force archers to get close (or wait there for you to show up again).

The other trick is to kite enemies around the room while you shoot at them.  It's also common sense.   If you are a team of soldiers with guns and you fight a maniac chasing after you with a sword, are you going to stand there and let him hit you or make him chase you around while your buddies gun him down?

[SSH83]

I think the hardest part about this game is figuring out which talent is good and how to build your PARTY. Then after that, you need to know how to play tactically instead of charging in head first Cailan-style! (see what I did there? ) Some people have prior experiences that allow them to catch on to this quickly, but most people do not.



There is no shame in playing on Easy in the first play through. Do whatever is most fun for you. On the other hand, if the game is too easy for you when you play with 3 mages. Try to make it more fun for yourself by trying to play through the game with no mage in the party. The game is fully customizable for your enjoyment, except it’s up to you to customize it.

[OneBadAssMother]

I think the hardest part about this game is figuring out which talent is good and how to build your PARTY.

Agreed.



My first game was seriously tough at normal, I had no idea which spells to get or whatever. My wife ended up playing the game better then me, partly because I told her about the system and my mistakes during my playthrough. Since she plays the game far more then me nowadays however, nothing challenges her, but she plays it for the story then to actually go hardcore gaming on Nightmare difficulty.



Also, knowing exactly where all the enemies are and what to expect - makes the game a lot easier. Not to mention it was interesting to watch her play her human noble queen character as a 2hander as she used a party of 4 warriors - all with berserk. It may not be tactically wise, but fun of course.

[Steel Majere343]

im beginning to figure out that dextarity is a lot more important for warriors then i had originally thought, my friends warriors are good but they still take a lot of damage, and it takes him a long time to get heavy armor and the like

im tryiing out what was mentioned above, about dextarity and strength, and its working wonders. alistair barely even gets hit anyways, and due to his heavy armor if he does its not so bad. constitution im upgrading slowly.

shale is a beast of a tank, but i actually think alistair now is better, seeing as how he has a constitution of like 25 strength of 38 and dex of 39, as i said he almost never gets hit, im building sten the same way with great success.

Modifié par Steel Majere343, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:26 .