159 réponses à ce sujet

[Asante81]

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Angry One, have I already told you that I love you?

I saw it first!  I mean... TAO is a terrible person.  I hate it.  <.<

And concerning that topic: let's face it; the strongest argument for the way they implemented it is: gamedesign. They would have needed to elaborate the whole becoming king/queen more. Would have involved more decisions to make, more persuasion, more story and whatever. It would have become a game about becoming king or queen. I guess... *shrugs*

*Arm pump*  That's what I was arguing!  A vast number of plot points wittle down to this fact.  It's surprisingly hard to understand, not a criticism of those who don't.  Game design limits options, time limits options, lots of things.  It's also why we can't gut Alistair in the camp or rush to Jory's defense.

lol... well, sorry, must have "over-read" your arguments about that, but nice to know I'm not the only one realising that. And, realising it doesn't mean I like it! Just to make that clear again. *laugh*
It's like saying spinach is healthy, doesn't mean you have to love the taste of it...

Modifié par Asante81, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:46 .

[Taleroth]

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Angry One, have I already told you that I love you?

I saw it first!  I mean... TAO is a terrible person.  I hate it.  <.<

And concerning that topic: let's face it; the strongest argument for the way they implemented it is: gamedesign. They would have needed to elaborate the whole becoming king/queen more. Would have involved more decisions to make, more persuasion, more story and whatever. It would have become a game about becoming king or queen. I guess... *shrugs*

*Arm pump*  That's what I was arguing!  A vast number of plot points wittle down to this fact.  It's surprisingly hard to understand, not a criticism of those who don't.  Game design limits options, time limits options, lots of things.  It's also why we can't gut Alistair in the camp or rush to Jory's defense.

lol... well.. sorry... must have... "over-read" your arguments about that... but nice to know I'm not the only one realising that. And, realising it doesn't mean I like it! Just to make that clear again... *laugh*
It's like saying spinach is healthy, doesn't mean you have to love the taste of it...

What have you got against spinach?  Only communists dislike spinach.

[Asante81]

I hav e nothing against spinach! I just said I don't like the taste of it! (Well actually personally I have something against spinach because I'm allergic to it But let's stop talking about greenery... we don't want anyone to think we compare becoming pixel king or queen with cow-food, do we?)

[FlintlockJazz]

Taleroth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Probably because there's only one origin to even mention Cousland's. Which is why the most you can do is marry the king/queen. The variance is still relatively tight.

Besides, who would give the speach to the troops?

Well that's irrelevant since the only origin that shows the Couslands is the only origin where you can marry Anora/Alistair.
Besides they are mentioned in bar/Bodhain rumors as having been massacred in a riot.

Hardly irrelevant because of what I meant when I said "the variance is still relatively tight."  Regardless of whether or not you marry Anora/Alistair, there's still the same coronation bik of only Anora or Alistair being crowned.  They're still the ones who give a speach to the troops.  They're still the ones to introduce the epilogue.  These facts are true whether or not the the player is a Human Noble.

King Cousland, alone on the throne, would completely redesign how that is handled.

Yes, but the Couslands were one of the only two Teryns in Ferelden, the highest ranking nobility and possible considered the highest due to the fact that the only other Teryn was Loghain, a commoner-made-noble by his mate.  Anora's claim is tenuous, her breeding is matched by yours, and if Cailan had not married and no one like Alistair found, then it would have no doubt fallen to the Couslands, hence why they were killed off by Loghain.  As the (at the time) only known surviving heir you have as much of a claim really as Anora, and if an accident was to befall her then you would in fact have the strongest claim besides Alistair.  That's what I think anyway.

[Cyberpunk]

Plus who is the one with Ferelden's support? Certainly you since you are their hero now. Anora is the daughter of a traitor... if you do not let Loghain live that is. And you have way more support than Anora does. Highever and Redcliffe will support you no matter what. Especially if you got Bann Teagan to marry Kaityln and saved all the villagers in the attack.

[FlintlockJazz]

tmp7704 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Maric is descended from Calenhad.
Loghain is a dirt farmer who got upgraded by Maric. Whether you think it right or not, he is regarded as a commoner.

And Calenhad's nobility comes from..?

Every "noble lineage" comes from commoner roots. It's like rule 34, no exceptions.

Calenhad was a noble from birth, and served as a knight to another lord before becoming king.   While they may all descend from commoners, the number of generations your family has been noble for pretty much determines how other nobles view you regardless of actual rank.

[Asante81]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Plus who is the one with Ferelden's support? Certainly you since you are their hero now. Anora is the daughter of a traitor... if you do not let Loghain live that is. And you have way more support than Anora does. Highever and Redcliffe will support you no matter what. Especially if you got Bann Teagan to marry Kaityln and saved all the villagers in the attack.

And the Bann of Dragon's Peak and Bann Alfstanna (or what her name was again) and several other Banns... don't forget them (if you helped them, of course)

[The Angry One]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Plus who is the one with Ferelden's support? Certainly you since you are their hero now. Anora is the daughter of a traitor... if you do not let Loghain live that is. And you have way more support than Anora does. Highever and Redcliffe will support you no matter what. Especially if you got Bann Teagan to marry Kaityln and saved all the villagers in the attack.

[Dev reasoning] Your entire army will follow you because of the treaties and only because of the treaties and would never, ever involve themselves in your power play because the treaties don't say so.[/Dev reasoning]

Yes, even though 3 out of 4 of these factions owe you their very lives, the dwarf king owes you his throne and 2 possible participants (werewolves and templars) are there SOLELY out of gratitude and nothing to do with treaties.

Modifié par The Angry One, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:07 .

[Taleroth]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Highever and Redcliffe will support you no matter what. Especially if you got Bann Teagan to marry Kaityln and saved all the villagers in the attack.

You must have killed Eamon if you consider Redcliffe willing to support the Grey Warden "no matter what."  Eamon considers preserving Thierin line to be of paramount importance.  He just doesn't get in the way if you try to maintain Anora.  But that's also probably to prevent even more complication from that equence.

Modifié par Taleroth, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:12 .

[tmp7704]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Calenhad was a noble from birth, and served as a knight to another lord before becoming king.

No, Calenhad was actually third son of some merchant according to the game Codex.

That royal Ferelden bloodline? All peasants, deep down

[Cyberpunk]

Taleroth wrote...

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Highever and Redcliffe will support you no matter what. Especially if you got Bann Teagan to marry Kaityln and saved all the villagers in the attack.

You must have killed Eamon if you consider Redcliffe willing to support the Grey Warden "no matter what."  Eamon considers preserving Thierin line to be of paramount importance.  He just doesn't get in the way if you try to maintain Anora.  But that's also probably to prevent even more complication from that equence.

Eamon doesn't like Anora on a personal level. You however have had a sincere relationship with him. You saved his son Connor and his wife Isolde. And you saved his whole village and fought by his brother. Hell you even helped his brother's wife... so yes he is very grateful and will support you against Anora if it was a choice between the 2 of you.

Dragon's Peak and the other Banns will most likely support you too. You helped them out a lot at the Landsmeet and have shown to be a superior warrior that often wins . Plus you are the hero of the blight and commoners love you. Anora should be basically politically isolated if you choose to mobilize your political influence against her. Sure she can fight back, but with the talent (Zevran+Leliana+Oghren+Wynne) and the political connections (6 Banns from the landsmeet + the only remaining Teyrn + Arl Eamon) you have a very good advantage.

Modifié par kooaznboi1088, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:26 .

[The Angry One]

In the end Anora has power due to writer's fiat, and you'll never convince me otherwise.

Depending on your actions she should have about as much political clout as a sewer rat, and yet there she remains because the plot says so.



Infuriating.

[Cyberpunk]

The Angry One wrote...

In the end Anora has power due to writer's fiat, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
Depending on your actions she should have about as much political clout as a sewer rat, and yet there she remains because the plot says so.

Infuriating.

What happens after the epilogue though :innocent:. Time to appoint Zevran and Leliana(Hardened) to very high positions and watch as Queen Anora falls ill to a serious "disease."

[Asante81]

The Angry One wrote...

In the end Anora has power due to writer's fiat, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
Depending on your actions she should have about as much political clout as a sewer rat, and yet there she remains because the plot says so.

Infuriating.

*laughs and cheers for TAO*
Is anyone already working on a "Let's give Anora what she deserves: Execution" mod? I would LOVE to play that... pleaaase

[The Angry One]

Me I'd rather stick Anora's head on a pike at Denerim's gates so that all may know the price of crossing the new Queen of Ferelden. Mahaha.

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

Infuriating.

There there.  There there.  It's okay.
*pat*  *pat*

I won't let Gaider hurt you.

[The Angry One]

Asante81 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

In the end Anora has power due to writer's fiat, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
Depending on your actions she should have about as much political clout as a sewer rat, and yet there she remains because the plot says so.

Infuriating.

*laughs and cheers for TAO*
Is anyone already working on a "Let's give Anora what she deserves: Execution" mod? I would LOVE to play that... pleaaase

Too bad such a thing would be without voice acting, but I'd play it.

[Cyberpunk]

The Angry One wrote...

Me I'd rather stick Anora's head on a pike at Denerim's gates so that all may know the price of crossing the new Queen of Ferelden. Mahaha.

Awe man. But where's the subtlety in that? You have to slowly make her unable to fight back or else you will have difficulty maintaining rule. Then another civil war. And if you win, Ferelden would be in no physical state to march into Orlais.:pinched:

And the Qunari invasion too.

[Asante81]

Ok ok, we make a mod called "101 ways to get rid of Anora"... does anyone know how to mod? We could try to find a voice imitator to voiceact her

Modifié par Asante81, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:38 .

[Cyberpunk]

I would be the first to d/l that mod.

[Galad22]

tmp7704 wrote...

If the hopeful king needs support from the landholders in order to be considered king then that's effectively power to veto his choice.

The king is just a teyrn of Ferelden -- the nobles pledge their loyalty to him but they still maintain control over their own lands. If some of them chose not to support a candidate it'd basically lead to secession and break up of the country in its current form.

Sure, if the king is extremely power hungry and wants the crown at the cost of country breaking up he can probably do that and rule over just part of the domain this way. Question would be though if he's then "king of Ferelden" in anything other than just title, when the Ferelden is no more.

This doesn't happen. Hopeful king does not need support of landholders to become king, nowhere does it say this so what are you talking about? Seriously you need some backing up here if you keep insisting this.

What your quote says is that king needs landholders support for drastical decisions for example starting a war or something similar.

Edit: King of Fereldan have to listen nobility of Ferelden, but they don't generally vote for new king, succession is generally handled normally.

What happened in the game was special case, because Alistair was a bastard, I imagine landsmeet does have power over new King if succession is in question, but if not then they don't have any say in who becomes King.

As I said earlier, do you really believe Theirin line would have ruled 400 years if this wasn't the case? Real dynasties in real world have crumbled much earlier than that just because lack of heir.

Modifié par Galad22, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:50 .

[Taleroth]

I'd do it, but I'm too busy making a mod where your ending can be as a drunk in a bar. Why should Alistair get all the fun?

[Asante81]

That's a cute idea *giggles*.

Though maybe I would prefer becoming the mistress of the pearl... letting Zevran work for me.

[CorruptedL]

My main character is a male human noble, and i've never gotten the option to marry Anora in the game do I need a high persuasion?

[tmp7704]

Galad22 wrote...

This doesn't happen. Hopeful king does not need support of landholders to become king, nowhere does it say this so what are you talking about? Seriously you need some backing up here if you keep insisting this.

It's in the game Codex. The "Politics of Ferelden" and "The Bannorn" specifically.

"No person has ever sat upon the throne of Ferelden without first winning the approval of the Bannorn. Queen Fionne (..) wrote: "(..) Who would believe that these same banns, now trying so hard to kill one another, just last year united to give me the crown?"

"To our neighbors Ferelden seems utterly chaotic. Unlike other monarchies power does not descend from our throne. Rather, it rises from the support of the freeholders. (..)

The king is in essence the most powerful of the teyrns. (..) But even the king's power must come from the banns."

I really don't think it leaves much room for interpretation. The banns give the crown and the power must come from them. No person ever got the throne of Ferelden without their approval. You'd think if that was possible, there would be at least one exception to that and as such worth a mention. Yet there isn't.

What your quote says is that king needs landholders support for drastical decisions for example starting a war or something similar.

No, this is your interpretation of this particular quote. Can you actually do the same i did for you and back this up with something?

As I said earlier, do you really believe Theirin line would have ruled 400 years if this wasn't the case? Real dynasties in real world have crumbled much earlier than that just because lack of heir.

It's the wonder of fiction i'm afraid. Writers are quite notorious for casually throwing hundreds of years around, pretty much because it sounds cool and save the headache of having to come up with more detailed backstories.