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[XOGHunter246]

CorruptedL wrote...

My main character is a male human noble, and i've never gotten the option to marry Anora in the game do I need a high persuasion?

You need to talk to the hag before the lands meet decision and convince her to accept and you do need high persuasion too

[Ulicus]

tmp wrote...
It's the wonder of fiction i'm afraid. Writers are quite notorious for casually throwing hundreds of years around, pretty much because it sounds cool and save the headache of having to come up with more detailed backstories.

In the game's defence, it has to be remembered that Theirin line has ruled "uninterrupted" only in the sense that each true Ferelden King since Calenhad has been descended from him. It hasn't been a simple matter of "Calenhad to firstborn to firstborn to firstborn to firstborn" for four hundred years... as the references to wars of succession attest.

I mean, it's been nine hundred and ten years and, at the end of the day, we've (I'm English) still got a descendant of William the Conqueror on the throne....

Modifié par Ulicus, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:52 .

[037686]

The Angry One wrote...

In the end Anora has power due to writer's fiat, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
Depending on your actions she should have about as much political clout as a sewer rat, and yet there she remains because the plot says so.

Infuriating.

On what basis should she "have about as much political clout as a sewer rat"?

It sounds like you're letting the fact that you plain don't like her cloud the fact that she is the daughter of the Hero of River Dane, widow of the recently killed King, and the heir of the most powerful Noble active at the time of the Landsmeet being called (thanks to Mama and Papa Cousland getting eliminated). Yes, Loghain is a grade A douche...but the point of the Landsmeet is it is where we actually expose him for being that Grade A douche, and many people are not aware of what he is up to prior to that. We essentially discredit him at that point, so most of his "tarnish" on Anora doesn't really show up prior to then.

Now, I do not care for Anora much at all (personality wise), and I wouldn't trust her as far I can throw her, but it really is worth bearing in mind that her father has a significant number of Banns under him who swear loyalty to him. That's where her power comes from, as Loghain's does.

The fact that her winning the Landsmeet is not a foregone conclusion proves that she isn't by any means a political powerhouse, but she's hardly a Nobby-Nobody lightweight either. She's basically the incumbent daughter of the theoretically highest ranked living Noble in Ferelden. A Cousland PC is essentially the only known living daughter/son of someone the same rank as Loghain, but without the executive experience possessed by Anora, and with a wiped-out ancestral powerbase (Highever). Loghain has been telling anyone who will listen that the Couslands were Orlesian agents/traitors, and a showdown between PC-Cousland and Loghain's faction would essentially be a fight of "You're a traitor!", "no u!".

The fact that the PC is the current de facto leader of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden is, while noteworthy, not really relevant (on paper) when you consider the Wardens are (supposedly) politically neutral. Any argument that legitimises a Cousland bid would also legitimise Anora. I believe that last point is largely why Eamon doesn't see value in making a bid of his own (aside from the fact he doesn't seem interested).

Personally, I feel Anora doesn't have enough going for her to beat Alistair (lets face it, Loghain's actions alone don't help her cause in the slightest), but she certainly has enough there to at least be considered an initial contender. 

[Ulyn]

It's a bit misleading to suggest Prince Philip is non-regnant because he's not royal and there's a rule about changing the name of the royal house; actually, it's my understanding that Mountbattengate happened during Elizabeth II's succession, not her marriage. And as for being not royal; the man was too royal, he had to renounce two prince-hoods prior to getting married because it wasn't the 17th century any more and such things had become disadvantageous.



The sensible rule about English and later British monarchical succession and authority is - the rules are flexible. There have been strong reigning queens, weaker reigning queens, strong kings, deposed kings, one realized and one attempted co-monarchy, the Cromwellian republic-commonwealth and military dictatorship should one distinguish between them, and the succession has at various times been the subject of faction or legal novelties like the sectarian Act of Settlement.

[th3warr1or]

David Gaider wrote...

red8x wrote...
After marrying her can't you call a Landsmeet and challenge Anora to a duel?

Anyway, the rules of ascension seem confusing to me. Apparently Anora, daughter of a freeman elevated to titled noble, marries the King and her title is Queen but not Princess Consort

If Alistair marries Anora his title is King but not Prince only because he is a royal bastard?

If you are a human noble female, and marry King Alistair, you are only Princess Consort but never Queen. Why? Particularly when the Cousland family seems to be more blue blooded than Anora's.

Consider the case of Queen Elizabeth of the English throne. She is married to Philip -- but does that make him the King? No, it makes him the Prince-Consort as she is the ruling Queen. It's possible that your character may one day become a proper King or Queen, but as of the Landsmeet the distinction is clear.

But she crowns you King in the end, and they repeatedly mention you as King towards the end of the game.  "Soon to be your King..", I give to you "your King".. etc.

[Galad22]

tmp7704 wrote...
It's in the game Codex. The "Politics of Ferelden" and "The Bannorn" specifically.

"No person has ever sat upon the throne of Ferelden without first winning the approval of the Bannorn. Queen Fionne (..) wrote: "(..) Who would believe that these same banns, now trying so hard to kill one another, just last year united to give me the crown?"

"To our neighbors Ferelden seems utterly chaotic. Unlike other monarchies power does not descend from our throne. Rather, it rises from the support of the freeholders. (..)

The king is in essence the most powerful of the teyrns. (..) But even the king's power must come from the banns."

I really don't think it leaves much room for interpretation. The banns give the crown and the power must come from them. No person ever got the throne of Ferelden without their approval. You'd think if that was possible, there would be at least one exception to that and as such worth a mention. Yet there isn't.

How many king can actually rule at all in medieval society without aproval of nobility? Nowhere in your quotes does it actually say that landsmeet votes for a king.

Teyrnirs work example the same as king as well, their power comes from the Banns who swear fealty for them, but Banns don't have choice either in who their teyrn is, or does if they decide to not swear fealty of their new teyrnir.

Your interpretatio about landsmeet is that that is only a forum for choosing a new king then? It would happen remarkably rarely if that was the case. However according politics of ferelden it happens every year, annual. What do you think they talk about there? Weather?

[tmp7704]

Galad22 wrote...

How many king can actually rule at all in medieval society without aproval of nobility? Nowhere in your quotes does it actually say that landsmeet votes for a king.

Did you miss the part of the game where Arl Eamon calls for the Landsmeet to determine who should get the throne of Ferelden and the part where you then run around trying to get the individual nobles to give support to your candidate? While you may say this is not how the things are resolved in normal circumstances, i'd like you to provide some evidence of that if possible. That is, what exactly makes you believe that the king candidate still gets to be the ruler even if the nobles say "no we don't want that person to rule over us"?

Your interpretatio about landsmeet is that that is only a forum for choosing a new king then?

No, my interpretation is that's one of the things the Landsmeet deals with, being the annual gathering of the nobles. The others are probably their usual power struggles and bickering, plenty examples of these can be found in the Codex as well.

[Galad22]

That is a special case, or do you disagree? Alistair is an actual bastard you know. You have provided evidence on the contrary but do notice that your evidence doesn't actually prove anything at all.



My point is that normally there isn't any king candidate at all, Cailan clearly was Marics son and therefore heir to the throne. I very much doubt there were any reason to call landsmeet in this case because clearly Cailan was the heir.



If Landsmeet would just put in a vote for a new king there would be nothing for our pc to stop putting ourselves into the throne nothing, not to mention that Eamons, Teagans, Anoras and Alistairs claim to the throne would be worth absolutely squat since landsmeet can just put some dirt farmer in the throne instead.



Of landsmeet: The sight of king asking for and working to win the support of "lesser" men is a source of a constant wonder to foreign ambassadors.



This to me quite clearly means that king must optain landsmeet aproval to get some of his agenda moving forward.

[tmp7704]

Galad22 wrote...

That is a special case, or do you disagree? Alistair is an actual bastard you know.

Well, i'm asking if there's anything in the actual game which could be used to confirm that yes, this is a special and different case and that normally things are handled differently. I mean, i get this is your belief how things work, i just wonder if this belief is based on the information from game or just on presumption this is how it 'should' work given the common practices of our own real life kingdoms and such.

You have provided evidence on the contrary but do notice that your evidence doesn't actually prove anything at all.

Well, how will you explain the Ferelden Queen writing specifically how the banns united to give her the crown? Was she a bastard and a special case as well? At this rate we might start to question just what is the special case when it comes to Ferelden royalty.

Modifié par tmp7704, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:52 .

[YR_Lim]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

I would be the first to d/l that mod.

I second that.