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The Operative - SMG/Pistol Insanity Soldier Guide


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#1
Athenau

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A while back I posted about abusing incendiary explosive ammo with the soldier, and I settled on the Geth Pulse Rifle as the weapon of choice.  But after playing with it a while I wasn't quite happy with it.  The GPR was great at burninating things, but it had one large flaw--the base weapon dps was bad.  Having most of your damage come from the flame explosions rather than the weapon itself meant that enemies with substantial shields/barriers took too long to take down because incendiary ammo doesn't work on shields.

So I spent some time looking for a replacement weapon to exploit, and after a little searching I found it.   Enter the Hornet.

"But wait!" you're saying.  "That's a SMG.  Don't SMGs suck?"

Well, not quite.  Most of the smgs are indeed terrible peashooters.  But not the Hornet.  The Hornet is a mega-beast.  To start, look at its ridiculous dps.  The single player version of the hornet does 780 dps (not counting reloads).  That's more than every other gun except the Falcon, Chakram Launcher, and the (charged) particle rifle.  Then look at its weight. Even without UL materials the Hornet weighs as much as the Avenger, one the lightest weapons in the game.  Then look at its accuracy.  For a CQB weapon the Hornet is remarkably accurate.  Fired from cover it has better spread than any of the hitscan shotguns, even with Smart Choke V.  And its hip-fire accuracy is crazy good for a non-shotgun (shotguns don't lose any accuracy when fired from the hip/whlie moving).  Finally, look at the ROF.  The Hornet fires at ~11.1 rounds per second when accounting for the refire.  That's really fast.  And by now we should know what we do with high ROF weapons...that's right, set things on fire with flame explosions.

But the Hornet's only half the picture.  As good as it is, you want a more accurate weapon for long range fights.  Fortunately, Mass Effect 3 is silly and lets you snipe with pistols.  So take advantage of that and slap a scoped Paladin in your other slot.

This combination of weapons does it all.  It destroys mooks, elites, and armored units with frightening ease.  It panics human enemies in a wide radius, does substantial AOE dps without using any cooldowns, and allows you to engage opponents at any range.  And with modest upgrades you retain a 200% cooldown bonus.

The build:

Adrenaline rush with damage and bonus power evolutions--this is a build based around killing stuff quickly, so don't bother with the tank evolution.

Combat mastery with weapon damage and ammo power damage evolutions --don't bother with the extra weight, you don't need it.  You want more weapon damage, power damage, and ammo power damage to buff your bullets and your flame explosions.

Incendiary ammo with damage, headshot damage, and explosive ammo evolutions--obvious

Disruptor ammo with damage and headshot damage evolutions--essential for the Paladin.

Squad cryo ammo with the 50% more damage taken evolution - squad cryo is good.   Squadmates freezing enemies is good.  Frozen enemies taking 50% more damage is even better.

Bonus Power:
I like energy drain.  Evolve for pure damage and it can take almost down centurion/engineer/marauder shields which means the flame pain starts even sooner.  The shield regen is also a lifesaver.

The Loadout:

Hornet with heatsink and mag upgrades.  This combination more than triples your effective magazine size, which puts you in "never reload" territory since you can fire until adrenaline rush cools down and be back to full again.  Another good option is heatsink + barrel, but I don't like this quite as much since you're already stacking a lot of +weapon damage and eliminating the need to reload entirely makes a bigger difference to your overall dps and survivability.  But if you prefer playing a little more cautiously and minimizing your time out of cover the extra damage might be worthwhile.

Paladin with scope and mag extension.  The Paladin's primary purpose in your arsenal is as a headshot machine.  To that end you need the scope (to land headshots at longer ranges) and the mag extension (to land more headshots before you have to reload).  Extra damage is wasted because of shield gate and armor piercing is mostly pointless since the Paladin does so much damage per shot.

Update (Firefight DLC):

The Blood Pack Punisher takes over as the new king of SMGs.  It is a fair bit more inaccurate than the Hornet (but still better than the hitscan shotties), so I recommend taking the scope to give it more mid-range punch and the heatsink upgrade.  The heatsink alone is enough to put you in "never reload" territory with adrenaline rush.  Since the reload is relatively long for a SMG this is a good thing.

Strategy:

For non-arrmored enemies use incendiary ammo on the Hornet and disruptor on the Paladin.  Learn to deal with the recoil on Hornet.  One tip I found very helpful (and which any professional fps player will echo) is to turn off mouse acceleration in-game and in windows.  This makes mouse movement so much more predictable, which in turn makes aiming easier.  In particular tracking targets and compensating for recoil, two things that require smooth and controlled movement, benefit enormously from turning acceleration off.

Get a feel for the effective range on each of your weapons and their positioning.    For example, it may be better to use the Hornet on a tight pack of unshielded enemies even at longer ranges because of the flame splash, but if they're more widely separated switch to the Paladin to clean them up with chain headshots.

For big enemies stick to the Hornet.  It has unmatched dps and dps is what you want for bosses.  Make sure you switch to disruptor to strip shields first--that +90% shield damage makes a very substantial difference.

Also, don't underestimate the splash radius on incendiary ammo.  It's very funny (and useful) to panic enemies hiding behind cover by shooting next to them.

Vids:

Hornet + Paladin/Carnifex:

N7 Cerberus Attack
Priority:  Tuchanka
N7 Gellix
Geth Dreadnought
Citadel

Punisher + Paladin
Ontarom

Hornet + Claymore (Kronner):

Sur Kesh
Tuchanka
Rachni Relay

Modifié par Athenau, 26 août 2012 - 04:16 .


#2
idspisp0pd

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Interesting. When I saw the title, I figured "SMG & Pistol on a soldier? He must be going for a way to make Insanity actually challenging," but looks like it was just the opposite :) I never bothered with SMGs on any of my classes, but I might have to check out the Hornet.

#3
Athenau

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Yes, it's quite abusive. Everyone already knows how strong pistols are, but the Hornet seems to have flown under the radar for the longest time. I think I'm going to try doing a few solo runs as well. Even Kronner's spectre difficulty can feel a little easy with this combination.

#4
Veovim

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Just out of curiosity, how do you accurately come up with the dps of a burst fire weapon like the hornet? I would expect the rate of fire given in coalesced to be within a burst, but then there's a delay between bursts. The only variable I see that looks like it might be related is ai_burstfiredelay = (X=0.8, Y=1.5), though without units given it doesn't mean much (it is most definitely not seconds between bursts).

#5
capn233

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Hornet is a decent little weapon. Incendiary with the "inferno" spec makes it even better. Only downside I suppose is that you can't get that with cover penetration like you can get on an AR.

It's too bad that your weapons loadout is so blasphemous. Soldiers should be sporting long guns ;)

#6
Athenau

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Veovim wrote...

Just out of curiosity, how do you accurately come up with the dps of a burst fire weapon like the hornet? I would expect the rate of fire given in coalesced to be within a burst, but then there's a delay between bursts. The only variable I see that looks like it might be related is ai_burstfiredelay = (X=0.8, Y=1.5), though without units given it doesn't mean much (it is most definitely not seconds between bursts).


Time Per Burst = [Rounds per burst - 1] * 60/ROF + MinRefire

For example, for a weapon with a 3 round burst, a ROF of 600, and a min refire of .25 the sequence of events looks like this:
T=0 first round fired
T=.1 second round fired
T=.2 third round fired (min refire timer starts ticking now)
T=.45 weapon ready to fire again

capn233 wrote...

Hornet is a decent little weapon.
Incendiary with the "inferno" spec makes it even better. Only downside I
suppose is that you can't get that with cover penetration like you can
get on an AR.

It's too bad that your weapons loadout is so blasphemous. Soldiers should be sporting long guns ;)

You can force enemies out of cover by shooting at their feet.  Setting people on fire is a good way to get them to move.  :lol:

It would be nice to be able to use more heavy weapons--Spectre difficulty overhauled the weight system and there my usual load out is Hornet + Scorpion (stagger + large splash to kill people behind cover) + sniper rifle.  I'll be posting some vids of that as well.  Sadly in vanilla the weight system is not so accommodating.

Modifié par Athenau, 29 avril 2012 - 01:20 .


#7
RedCaesar97

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The Hornet is the ME3 equivalent of the ME2 Shuriken. It is a strong and vastly underrated weapon. It looks fantastic on the Soldier. I will definitely try it out if I can pull myself away from the Claymore.

#8
JaegerBane

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RedCaesar97 wrote...

The Hornet is the ME3 equivalent of the ME2 Shuriken. It is a strong and vastly underrated weapon. It looks fantastic on the Soldier. I will definitely try it out if I can pull myself away from the Claymore.


I wouldn't go so far as to say it's ME3's shuriken. I'd argue its ME3's ME2 Vindicator (i.e. very good but smothered under fandom for other weapons). The ME2 shuriken got it's shaky reputation because its performance was debatable - often hanging on dubious points about being to strip precisely one shield per clip and other highly theoretical concepts.

#9
Athenau

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Actually, if we're comparing to ME2 this build is most like the Revenant + Viper soldier in how it plays. I always considered the Revenant an overgrown SMG, now in ME3 we have an actual SMG that does its job way better.

#10
ReXspec

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I played with the hornet as a close-range sidearm in SP and it was a nasty little gun with cryo ammo. But my core weapon (for both SP and MP) as always been the Mattock since I have a quick trigger finger and am a a very good shot (don't mean to brag). For long range, I'd usually switch back and forth between the Black Widow or the Wraith (depending on the situation) but, I'll give your suggested combination a go.

For what it's worth, your build and load out selection look promising. :)

#11
Locutus_of_BORG

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JaegerBane wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

The Hornet is the ME3 equivalent of the ME2 Shuriken. It is a strong and vastly underrated weapon. It looks fantastic on the Soldier. I will definitely try it out if I can pull myself away from the Claymore.


I wouldn't go so far as to say it's ME3's shuriken. I'd argue its ME3's ME2 Vindicator (i.e. very good but smothered under fandom for other weapons). The ME2 shuriken got it's shaky reputation because its performance was debatable - often hanging on dubious points about being to strip precisely one shield per clip and other highly theoretical concepts.

The Hornet is better than ME2's Shuriken for sure. Just the effective range of the thing (same as Vindy) makes it so.




More on topic, I haven't found much need for Squad Cryo in ME3, even on Insanity. I ran Squad Cryo exclusively at first, but I eventually found Squaddies + Explosive Ammo + any of the cheeze weapons (like the Particle Rifle) is good enough, just because of the sheer speed with which squaddies can kill anything with that basic setup... ATM I'm just not sure CC is necessarily as relevant in ME3 as it was in ME2.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 29 avril 2012 - 08:35 .


#12
Jestina

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capn233 wrote...
Hornet is a decent little weapon. Incendiary with the "inferno" spec makes it even better. Only downside I suppose is that you can't get that with cover penetration like you can get on an AR.


They should definitely give us piercing mods for smg's...like with all the other weapons. That would make them a little more viable at least.

#13
HTTP 404

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the hornet doesn't suck. but smgs in general are weak. I think they should have kept their usefulness like in me2, where they were really effective at short range. They should be the rapid fire equivalent to shotguns like how ARs are the rapid fire equivalant to snipers.

I am speaking in general of the weapon class not some specific weapons like the scorpians, locusts .

#14
capn233

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Jestina wrote...

They should definitely give us piercing mods for smg's...like with all the other weapons. That would make them a little more viable at least.

I actually disagree, since I believe in the right tool for the right job.

I don't know that we need to strive for 200% CD bonus on a soldier though.  Black Widow X and Revenant X was what I liked to run after Citadel coup in NG+.

#15
Jestina

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[quote]capn233 wrote...
[/quote]I actually disagree, since I believe in the right tool for the right job.
[/quote]

SMG's don't even really have a job in ME3. They lack piercing power and don't have the shield burning ability they had in ME2.

#16
capn233

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Jestina wrote...

SMG's don't even really have a job in ME3. They lack piercing power and don't have the shield burning ability they had in ME2.


There is that...

But if you gave them armor piercing / cover penetration, you would nearly make AR's obsolete since that class isn't all that wonderful either.

It is sad that they gimped the combat mechanics.  SMG's with bonuses to shields and barriers would be cool.  SR's and Pistols with the bonus to armor, and AR's with a "half" bonus to both.

Modifié par capn233, 30 avril 2012 - 07:33 .


#17
Locutus_of_BORG

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^This is true. And also sad. ME3's gameplay looked great on the surface, but now it seems that it's just not as deep as ME2's once you get past all the pretty explosions. :(

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 30 avril 2012 - 03:14 .


#18
known_hero

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Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^This is true. And also sad. ME3's gameplay looked great on the surface, but now it seems that it's just not as deep as ME2's once you get past all the pretty explosions. :(


Yeah, I can only hope that they decide to patch in a higher difficulty and add these changes. I don't see it happening though. Despite the lack of a serious challenge, the game is still fun.

Nice vids, op. What level is the hornet?

#19
Locutus_of_BORG

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^Well, the issue is beyond plain difficulty. ME3 will still be about flashy explosions regardless of difficulty level. But I'm probably making this sound like a bigger gripe than it really is.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 30 avril 2012 - 05:40 .


#20
JaegerBane

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Jestina wrote...

SMG's don't even really have a job in ME3. They lack piercing power and don't have the shield burning ability they had in ME2.


They do have a job in ME3 (providing a full-auto weapon to those who've chosen a non-standard AR, or those who want to lessen their weight to the absolute lowest level). The problem is that this job is such a niche that to the majority of players, it doesn't mean much.

That said, I don't know why the Hornet and Hurricane keep getting lumped with the other SMGs. The differences in performance are like night and day.

#21
Kronner

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 Awesome build! 
I did try this build out, albeit modified:

Hornet - Ultra Light mod and Heatsink mod. I will probably take UL+mag mod next time though.
Claymore instead of Paladin - I just like Claymore too much to pass it up on a Soldier.
Slam instead of ED

Even though I still have to get used to shooting with the Hornet, it was a lot of fun. I ran through Sur Kesh. Cheers :)

Modifié par Kronner, 01 mai 2012 - 02:18 .


#22
MELTOR

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Is the Tempest much of a downgrade from the Hornet? I want to try this out but Im much more comfortable with the Tempest and I just overall like it better. It seems like the Hornet + Inferno ammo is stupid-good.

#23
Athenau

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Heh, you barely shot anything Kronner--slam plus biotic explosions did most of the work. You sure you're playing a soldier O_o.

Is the Tempest much of a downgrade from the Hornet? I want to try this out but Im much more comfortable with the Tempest and I just overall like it better. It seems like the Hornet + Inferno ammo is stupid-good.

There's a pretty big gap in performance between the two. You'll still get decent performance out of the Tempest because of the ROF, but IMO it pays to learn how to deal with the Hornet's recoil.

#24
Kronner

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Yea, Slam was much better than I thought it would be. I did not know it could actually detonate singularity until yesterday. That said, I was content with the number of kills by firearms :)

I wanted a power that'd kill/disable one trash enemy in one shot while I am in ARush. I switched to Carnage for the next mission. Carnage worked pretty well too.

#25
tholloway93

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i havent really used smg's at all other than infiltrator as an alternative to my sniper rifle, i might just have to give this a go. whats your cd at?