75 réponses à ce sujet

[Deflagratio]

Blood Magic, as the sustained ability is actually quite good. After Blood Sacrifice, I believe the abilities aren't worth the talent points. Blood Wound isn't that effective, and you can't blood sacrifice a blood-magic puppet. So that is a worthless ability.



But the Blood Magic ability is very very good. Even at the beginning of the game (Lv7) it can mean the difference between selling all your Lyrium Potions and getting tons of great items early, or wasting money on potions.



Usually what I find most effective is using mana to 50-25%, switching to blood magic and going on from there, at about 20-10% Health left, turn off blood magic, and regenerate myself. WIth proper hostility control, and a little care, you essentially have unlimited mana.

[Kaosgirl]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

tranj84cl wrote...

Jordi B wrote...

tranj84cl wrote...

Well, considering BM is widely regarded as overpowered, I'm sure I don't need to waste time contesting anything in your post.

That's the spirit! Arguments are for ******!

It wasn't intended as a flame.  It's just not EVERY skill is going to be useful or awesome.  BM has a great *stand-alone* skill.  The first in the line seems useless alone, but used once you run out of mana, it can squeeze a few more heals, or last second damage.  Wynne activating blood magic once she runs out of mana prevents more party wipes than you could shake a stick at.  So no, BM does not bite. 

The game is about synergy.  You can't expect every skill to simply activate and win a battle for you.

Seems you found it worthwhile to contest something, at least..

If you run out of mana you simply us one of the unlimited dirt-cheap mana potions you have at your disposal after a certain point in the game. So why bother doing anything else. Activating the mode and then using the spell wastes time which you might not have, considering by your post you only seem to use it as a desperate "borrow time" spell.

I never timed it.  Is activating the mode really slower than chugging a potion?  
If it's not, then you're not wasting any more time than you would have wasted using your preferred route.

[ANDY5151]

L2 Constitution.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

corporate-slave wrote...

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

... I never figured out how to effectively use blood magic, so now I am going to assume that it is terrible and run to the forums to trash it ...

Any rebuttals?

Yes. To put it bluntly, it is clear from your post you are not using blood magic effectively.

Blood magic is not something you just turn on at the beginning of a fight and go crazy with. It should be used sparingly until the battle is under control.

For large groups of opponents (who aren't undead or demons), nothing beats starting a fight by activating Blood Magic and casting Blood Wound. Crowd control *and* ridiculous damage that almost never gets resisted? Yes please! Once your opponents are incapacitated and hemhorraging hit points, it is time to turn off Blood Magic, unleash your other AOE spells, and heal if needed. When you run out of mana, turn it back on and continue casting. By then, most of your opponents should be dead so the health loss is not as dangerous.

Facing several powerful foes? No problem. Turn on Blood Magic, use Blood Control to turn one of them into a temporary ally, and then disable Blood Magic until it is needed again. This is superior to the single target 'disable' spells you mention because: 1) the target of the spell fights for you, and 2) you can use Blood Sacrifice to steal that target's health and make it your own. Yes, it would be swell if we got to control the abilities of the foe under our control, but we don't always get everything we want. The ability is still extremely useful, and its utility justifies not getting it until later in the game.

But isn't it dangerous to start a fight by enabling Blood Magic? Yes, it is, but there are numerous ways to provide yourself with the breathing room you need to use it safely. Use line of sight, or open with a crowd control or AOE knockback spell. This will generally give you enough time to safely enable Blood Magic, use Blood Wound or Blood Control, and then disable Blood Magic until it is needed again.

Blood Sacrifice is also quite useful when used correctly. Out of mana? Turn on Blood Magic and keep casting. Running low on HPs? No problem, use Blood Sacrifice to transfer hit points from party members who aren't being attacked to yourself. You get to keep casting, and they are no worse for the wear (as long as they don't pull aggro). Blood Sacrifice also works on enemies who are under the effects of Blood Control. This allows you to simultaneously control and damage an opponent, while healing yourself. Pretty amazing.

Finally, it should be noted that spells cast using blood magic are ridiculously cheap from a resource perspective. This summary from the unofficial Dragon Age wiki is instructive:

"The health cost of a spell is ~22% lower than the mana cost. Equipping the Blood Ring or Avernus's Robes lowers that cost by 25%. So if a spell would cost 41 mana, under Blood Magic it is 32 health, and with Blood Ring it is 24 health (41*0.78*0.75)."

Blood magic is one of the most powerful mage trees in the game, but using it effectively requires some finesse. You can't just turn it on at the beginning of every fight and go nuts. You need to know when to use it, and when to turn it off.

You are either missing my point or conviniently omiting it.
 
Though I suspect you just did not bother reading anything but the title or just want to parade with your knowledge of  basic tips that can be derived from common sense. I did say I had already finished the game on Nightmare, no? How would I've ever grasped the subtle trick of healing myself from a party member that is not under attack?

Just in case I'll parrot myself again: My beef with the blood magic tree is that for all the lore behind it, the various mentioning of blood mages with fear and how the game continiously  beats you over the head with how powerful and dangerous said forbidden magic is, the blood magic branch just revolves around one spell.

Lets see if I'll have to say that again at a later juncture.

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 08 décembre 2009 - 03:44 .

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Lets see if I'll have to say that again at a later juncture.

Well, what do you know? I did get to do it....again.

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Blood Wound is all you need, really. Everything else is just gravy.

For the n-th time, this is what irks me about the overly infamous ( in the game) blood magic

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 08 décembre 2009 - 03:52 .

[tkaz85]

The blood magic that everyone in the game is afraid of refers to the spells that cost the lives of dozens at a time to cast. That kind of mass murder is...discouraged nearly everywhere except the Imperium.

[corporate-slave]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

You are either missing my point or conviniently omiting it.
Just in case I'll parrot myself again: My beef with the blood magic tree is that for all the lore behind it, the various mentioning of blood mages with fear and how the game continiously  beats you over the head with how powerful and dangerous said forbidden magic is, the blood magic branch just revolves around one spell.

Lets see if I'll have to say that again at a later juncture.

No, I have not missed your point. I simply do not agree with it. Blood magic abilities are not weak, and your arguments for why they are demonstrate clearly that you have not yet mastered the use of the blood magic tree. The tree does not just revolve around one spell. They all have uses, and they are all powerful when used correctly.

Your argument also fails to consider two very important points:

1. Lore in this game is tainted by the perspective of those telling the tale. The Chantry has outlawed blood magic and demonized those who practice it. It should come as no surprise that they may exaggerate its dangers in order to keep its spread at a minimum, or perhaps simply because they fear it so much.

2. This is a game, and as such it needs to maintain some semblance of balance between the different classes. Making blood magic even stronger than it already is would harm the game.

Modifié par corporate-slave, 08 décembre 2009 - 04:08 .

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Powerful when used correctly? How many wrong uses can you get for a self heal spell and a mass stun.

Why do you insist on making it look complicated when the concept of how these spells should be used is graspable by 10-year olds? You have not found an ultimate way to use these spells, to say such things, you simply use the only way.

2. Cue for "single player doesnt need balance" people to chime in.

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 08 décembre 2009 - 04:18 .

[Tonya777]

I pretty much agree , but every mage specialization there is basically sucks



I mean spirit healers revive is a must have



But then you got Arcane warrior , only good for 1 playthrough but then the rest of the time who the hell wants to be a mage wearing armor and using a sword? Really? Not me.



Then Bloodmage is just suicidal and only good for popping on for 1 second to blood wound and then take it off



Shapeshifter? Well shapeshifter is PURELY a novelty , an "Oh look I can turn into an animal!" thing



Spirit healer is the only truly good spec for mages , the rest are all novelties

[FalconCritical]

You can also suck health from ranger pets as a blood mage (beyond allies/controlled enemies), which definitely helps in making blood magic more sustainable. I also find that dropping out of blood magic, popping a lesser health pot and then throwing a spell or two before going back into blood magic mode allows me to stay in that mode for longer. Also note that the arcane mastery spell that improves spellpower but kills mana regen still affects your mana, and is easier to sustain in longer battles where you're not running out of mana frequently.

[kevinwastaken]

I could do with just Spirit Healer and none of the other specs. Don't like them or need them.

[Varenus Luckmann]

OP: You suck.

[Tonya777]

kevinwastaken wrote...

I could do with just Spirit Healer and none of the other specs. Don't like them or need them.

This is a good point , I wonder what it would be like to do Spirit Healer , then just pick whatever that spec was that adds +2 spellpower as the 2nd spec and just not buy any of its abilities

Also to just stop SH abilities at Revive

Save 6 talent points maybe better invested in the normal spells

[tranj84cl]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

You make use of gross exaggeration to get your point across. Thats poor debating. Even with 2 mages in the party,I have never struggled with mana potions at the start. Farm 200? Where are you getting this from. You find/buy lowest quality lyrium pots for next to nothing in a sizeble quantity untill the point where you can create them  en masse.

You can get as many Potent Lyrium potions as you want the moment you have access to the world map.  Any more and it's spoiler (If not already).

I'd say you are completely ignoring the point that things aren't supposed to be good by themselves.  Speaking of poor debating, I can argue, in the manner that you do, that the Cold primal line is garbage.

Winter's Grasp is a nuke that while good at the beginning, scales very poorly damage-wise.  Add to that, towards the end of the game, cold resistance is so much that you might as well use your staff attack.

Ice Weapons is terrible unless you use a melee heavy party.  On top of that, +1 damage per hit? Are you kidding me?

Cone of Cold, well, all it does is freeze people.  Damage-wise, also pretty pitiful unless you are facing weak to cold mobs.

Blizzard... Long cast time, useless unless you cheese and have doors to shut.

See what I did there? Blood magic is supposed to be used in conjunction with other skills.  As are the cold spells.  Cone of cold with stonefist, or any critical hit-stacked melee party is just ridiculous.  Add Ice weapons if you feel like it.  Blizzard shines when used as part of the Storm of the Century and earthquake.  You can argue anything sucks by itself.

[Tonya777]

Frost weapons doesn't only do +1 dmg a hit , your magic stat # must suck

[tranj84cl]

Tonya777 wrote...

Frost weapons doesn't only do +1 dmg a hit , your magic stat # must suck

That it must.  At higher levels though, everything and their mom resists cold.  I don't recall ever seeing anything >10 though.  I'd rather not take the fatigue hit.

[corporate-slave]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...
Powerful when used correctly? How many wrong uses can you get for a self heal spell and a mass stun.

An AOE 'stun' that lasts a long time and does great damage if you've spec'd your mage correctly and are wearing the correct gear. I've seen a few people claim that its damage is low, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. Synergizes really well with other AOE spells, too.

So how could one mess up the use of something that seems so simple? By investing too little in Magic, and too much in Constitution and/or Willpower. By not wearing the correct gear. By failing to factor in synergy with other spells. By failing to use terrain or spells to create a safe window for casting. By making the mistake of thinking that Blood Magic should be used extensively at the beginning of a battle. By continuing to use blood magic when your mage has aggro. I could go on, but I won't.

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...
Why do you insist on making it look complicated when the concept of how these spells should be used is graspable by 10-year olds? You have not found an ultimate way to use these spells, to say such things, you simply use the only way.

Because it is complicated. As I said above, there are a lot of ways you can play a blood mage poorly. Spec, gear, spell combos, play style, etc. You need to experiment and find what works. If you aren't willing to do this, then there really isn't much more to say.

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...
2. Cue for "single player doesnt need balance" people to chime in.

I notice you forgot to comment on point #1. It's OK, I understand... After all, it was a pretty devastating counter to your argument.

[Tonya777]

Fire & Ice weapons at the same time (2 mages in party) when you're playing a hasted Rogue = Good DPS boost , a good rogue out DPSes mages easily , adding those 2 effects at once just makes it even more

[Deltago Lavista]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...
Just in case I'll parrot myself again: My beef with the blood magic tree is that for all the lore behind it, the various mentioning of blood mages with fear and how the game continiously  beats you over the head with how powerful and dangerous said forbidden magic is, the blood magic branch just revolves around one spell.

Lets see if I'll have to say that again at a later juncture.

Well how about this: It's feared because one of the spells goes against the chant. The Chantry, which controls the mages will spread this fear and panick into the general populace to help weed out Blood mages before they get to that one spell. By also saying it's powerful, makes many young magi turn to its evilness, proving the chantry's point that no mages should be trusted, as if given the chance, they'll turn against the Maker again.
Is that a good RP answer for an RPG game?

[Kaosgirl]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Just in case I'll parrot myself again: My beef with the blood magic tree is that for all the lore behind it, the various mentioning of blood mages with fear and how the game continiously  beats you over the head with how powerful and dangerous said forbidden magic is, the blood magic branch just revolves around one spell.

There's also all this fancy talk about how dwarves are a noble and honorable people composed primarily of blacksmiths and merchants.  That doesn't really pan out so well if you dig into it either.

Also, most of the effects that would make blood magic something to truly be feared by the common folks are out of scope of the gameplay.  We play solely with combat magic, and have no inkling of what is capable with ritual magic.  

[Mavkiel]

Honestly I thought the blood mage specialization was a letdown. Level 16 for blood control? Give me a break, I found it almost useless. Any creature worth casting it on, either would resist or be controlled only for a moment. ANY other sort of control spell would probably last longer, and you can get much faster.



The saving grace for blood magic is that you can have lots of sustained abilities up, use your hp for mana. Blood wound is nice, but, creative use of repulse field and fireball is almost as effective.

[Godeshus]

I love blood mage. Here's how I use it.



1-Low on mana and you want to keep stringing aoe? turn on blood magic, cast your spells, turn it off and and heal.



2-Low on health after using it up with blood magic? Hit your tank with blood sacrifice. Make your tank take a potion first, this way you can keep stringing your spells.



3-Need crowd control? turn on blood magic, blood wound, turn off blood magic.



4-Want some cannon fodder? Tank in trouble? turn on blood magic, blood control, turn off blood magic.



I use blood magic in nearly every battle, and almost always use the 3 spells. It takes like half a second to activate.

[buzerunn]

A blood mage can sustain tons of buffs and still able to cast spells, not to mention the godly blood wound spell. A blood mage would need to pump constitution instead of will power IMO.

Does the last spell work on bosses btw? I haven't acquired it yet, if it does than it is damn overpowered in boss fights.

Modifié par buzerunn, 08 décembre 2009 - 06:09 .

[Azazel005]

Wonderful, how exciting and articulate of you! I am so pleased that blood magic failed to meet your expectations. Though irrespective as to whether the lore indicates that it should be more powerful so as to meet those expectations your claims that it is not sufficiently worthwhile seems rather pointlessly arrogant. There are plenty of illustrations in this thread of perfectly effective tactics that can only be achieved using blood magic, whether they are substantially superior to tactics offered elsewhere does not compromise those tactics.



Secondly the lore forbids blood magic because yes it can be powerful though that will often require mass amounts of blood sacrificed from some other source, beyond that yes you can not draw some extreme power simply with the knowledge. Secondly "Magic should serve man and never rule over him" Blood magic specifically is able to control the minds of others that puts it in direct opposition to the Chantry's teachings. How powerfuls those effects are in game are mostly irrelevant, as you can't very well go running around blood controlling anyone you like from a practicality point of view nor can you learn any magic that requires mass amounts of blood from potential slaves.



So the point your are illustrating is that you expected more from the tree then it offers due to it's reputation? And that all the other uses mentioned here is simply still inadequate compared to those continued expectations?



Ummm... OK but it's still good though.

[tranj84cl]

Tonya777 wrote...

Fire & Ice weapons at the same time (2 mages in party) when you're playing a hasted Rogue = Good DPS boost , a good rogue out DPSes mages easily , adding those 2 effects at once just makes it even more

Is that so? I was under the impression that one overrides the other.  *Runs to go check*.