218 réponses à ce sujet

[Almighty_Hoogs]

Sohlito wrote...

Can I reiterate a very simple point many seem to have forgotten? It's HIS opinion. It's HIS perspective. For the most part, he's remained relatively civil about sharing it. It's one thing to nurture rational discussion/debate on those differing views, entirely another to try and assert yours over someone elses or outright disregard them because they don't match.

OP, while I disagree with your opinions overall, I commend you for maintaining your civility while defending them.

I agree with this statement. If the fella/lass likes the ending,fair enough. I just feel the ending, in my view, was crap. I would have liked there to be a "happy ending" as a choice. But we didn't get it. I wouldn't have minded a bitter-sweet ending aswell (red dead redemption).

[Smitridel]

ed87 wrote...


My words must have affected you if youre getting personal now. If you must go there, its called using annual leave.

I simply find the statement 'Ingenious Ending!' coming from more a casual gamer to be almost trolling. But i wont challenge your opinion itself, i will only state that youre the type of gamer EA wants.

Go about with your thread, i wont bother you anymore.

Im not getting personal, just stating that which is obvious.
Used to be a hardcore gamer, real life made me casual  - or not, dont know yet.

Nonetheless why should it stop me from expressing my opinion?

If hardcore gamers were experts indeed and only their opinions "mattered"  there wouldnt be any need of constructive critisism, since there are not THAT many hardcore gamers around.

Your post stinks of unjustified elitism, which indeed I find insulting.
So yes, thank you.
Peace

[zovoes]

i smell sock puppet

[AlexXIV]

Almighty_Hoogs wrote...

Sohlito wrote...

Can I reiterate a very simple point many seem to have forgotten? It's HIS opinion. It's HIS perspective. For the most part, he's remained relatively civil about sharing it. It's one thing to nurture rational discussion/debate on those differing views, entirely another to try and assert yours over someone elses or outright disregard them because they don't match.

OP, while I disagree with your opinions overall, I commend you for maintaining your civility while defending them.

I agree with this statement. If the fella/lass likes the ending,fair enough. I just feel the ending, in my view, was crap. I would have liked there to be a "happy ending" as a choice. But we didn't get it. I wouldn't have minded a bitter-sweet ending aswell (red dead redemption).

Blah civil. Get real guys. He was using flame bait to begin with and every 2nd post includes a veiled insult hurled at someone. This is a troll topic, period. And he is making sure it stays up. I don't care how successful he is trolling but for god's sake see him for what he is, a troll. Being civil or not doesn't make the difference between a troll or a poster who thinks he has something to say. Try to be a bit less superficial and look behind the words. I prefer constructive criticism in any case, even if it is rude, to a troll attempt no matter how civil it appears.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 avril 2012 - 04:36 .

[SirBob1613]

Game ending was terrible you go up the magic elevator to see a kid that controls the reapers and it just happens theres 3 different choices of what to do with the reapers on the citidel which was orginally created by the reapers. So lets see the reapers put their own death warrent on the building they made hmm lets go with it. Then the kid goes on to spew bulls*** at you that you cant even argue with then you get to pick one of the three bulls*** choices that kills billions. Yup a great game ending

[Apollo-XL5]

AlexXIV wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Clearly, any ending that motivates the fanbase to construct entire theories based on the premise that it never happened is good, right?

Double-facepalming right now.

To be fair, we don't know if Bioware intended IT in the first place or not. There's a lot of evidence to support it, I guess we'll find out in the ending DLC.

There is no evidence. There are hints that support it, that's all. It could as well just be coincidence. People reading more into things than there is. Which is not exactly new or unexpected to human nature.

There is no such thing as coincidence.

[AppealToReason]

Smitridel wrote...

After setting aside the Single Player Capaign in favor of the Multiplayer for a month or so, I thought I'd give it a go and finish the game and see what that fuss was all about.
(Note that I havent read or heard any of the endings analysis before completing the game, just the general idea that fans were dissaponted with the ending.)

So.
Final moments.
Congratulations are in order to the writing panel of the game!

While I do understand that some people may be dissaponted and/or be enraged with the non-happy endings and the lack of choise in the matter, I found the ending...incredible (By the way, I chose to destroy them)

All that mind-boggling situation where the game sets you, even after you finished it  and start searching, analysing theories, creating arguments while taking into account the game as a SERIES and as a whole (see: Indoctrination Theory) and not as a standalone part, is the most satisfying metagaming experience.

Having said that, although I may be one of the few, I'll gladly declare that Im fully satisfied with the product as a whole series.
Kudos Bioware! You did one hell of a job writing that masterpiece of a story!




P.S. I proudly belong to the generation having enjoyed Fallout 1,2, Baldur's Gate and such products in their prime time, that are nowadays considered epic in terms of storytelling and rpg elements. 
I'll gladly note that game down on this list.

I couldn't agree more. I actually liked it.

[XTR3M3]

odds are there would be SOMEONE that thought the ending was awesome. Ask them to play Deus Ex HR or the first Deus Ex and then see of they still think it is awesome.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Smitridel wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Clearly, any ending that motivates the fanbase to construct entire theories based on the premise that it never happened is good, right?

Double-facepalming right now.

Any ending that motivates an entire customer database to construct entire theories about what happened, if that actually happened, what was the meaning of that and so on, is the metagaming element, which in terms of gaming experience, I find it very rare.

People still try to prove what the ending was about even after they've finished it right?

People aren't trying to PROVE ANYTHING, we are however trying to UNDERSTAND, what the hell just happened.

META-game this! 

  I'd be happy to metagame something worthy, at the same time knowing, what they're trying to say.

[Smitridel]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

I'm happy for you that you enjoyed the one ending provided in ME3.

It's just a shame that Bioware neglected to provide multiple endings so that they could make good on their claims regarding ME3. Perhaps if they had actually tried to follow through on the diversity of game play and themes that they had intentionally created with ME1/ME2 there would be a larger portion of their customer base who was paying them complements instead of complaining that Bioware left them out in the cold.

Actually, they always presented as a space opera - that pretty much says it all.

Much like greek Homer and the rest greek poet stories, the hero/main character - stereotype doesnt always have a satisfiying or happy ending.
While I agree there could be more diverse endings (although I dont know how well it would blend with the whole tragic hero stereotype - hence Im not a writer), I think the endings, sad as they may be, were fullfilling in their own Mass Effect - Sheppard wise lore.

Modifié par Smitridel, 29 avril 2012 - 04:58 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

I'm sorry, but if the Extended Cut turns out to be IT (I'm sure it won't) then all it will show is that BioWare copied a fan theory and made it canon.

The window where BioWare could have proved that IT was their plan all along has come and gone. It's too late.  [/quote]


absolutely, they blew it bigtime, however they crawl out from under this s**tstorm, will most assuredly determine, if I buy any more of their "ART"

Modifié par ohupthis, 29 avril 2012 - 04:55 .

[Smitridel]

XTR3M3 wrote...

odds are there would be SOMEONE that thought the ending was awesome. Ask them to play Deus Ex HR or the first Deus Ex and then see of they still think it is awesome.

I've actually played both games, although I dont remember what happened in the last mission in the first Deus Ex - it's been years.
However, I cant compare Deus Ex HR with Mass Effect 3, because the first is a stand alone game (with some connections lore wise to the first Deus Ex) and the latter is a whole Trilogy with much more solid lore.

[Smitridel]

ohupthis wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Clearly, any ending that motivates the fanbase to construct entire theories based on the premise that it never happened is good, right?

Double-facepalming right now.

Any ending that motivates an entire customer database to construct entire theories about what happened, if that actually happened, what was the meaning of that and so on, is the metagaming element, which in terms of gaming experience, I find it very rare.

People still try to prove what the ending was about even after they've finished it right?

People aren't trying to PROVE ANYTHING, we are however trying to UNDERSTAND, what the hell just happened.

META-game this! 

  I'd be happy to metagame something worthy, at the same time knowing, what they're trying to say.

But...
In your own way, trying to understand what happened, you are essentially contibuting or diving into metagaming.

[Sublyminal]

To each his own.

[Sublyminal]

Smitridel wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

odds are there would be SOMEONE that thought the ending was awesome. Ask them to play Deus Ex HR or the first Deus Ex and then see of they still think it is awesome.

I've actually played both games, although I dont remember what happened in the last mission in the first Deus Ex - it's been years.
However, I cant compare Deus Ex HR with Mass Effect 3, because the first is a stand alone game (with some connections lore wise to the first Deus Ex) and the latter is a whole Trilogy with much more solid lore.

Now we know you're trolling. HR had the same exact ending that ME3 stole from, the same RGB ending. 

[The Spamming Troll]

i think the OP just wants something to do on a slow sunday.

have fun with this.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Smitridel wrote...

Creepter wrote...

Smitridel wrote...
Yes, I do understand that.
Although I refuse to accept that there is only a minimum number of people that liked the ending.

Just thought I'd give a possitive view of the ending, contrary to popular belief that the ending sucked

What, you believe that there's a silent majority that likes the ending or that the two "forces" are equals?

And is it okay to completely fail at writing a narratively coherent story as long as the end result is 'meta gaming'?

Well, I believe that while there will be more "haters" , forum peer pressure and lots of bumps in Hate Posts diminish the number of "Likers" and/or hide the liking posts.

Even if that's not the case, judging from real life, popular belief, is certainly not always the right one or the wrong one.
It's just how masses of people interact with each other and create trends.

Concerning the fail at writing, I'd say it's more the other way around.
Meta-gaming is not the result rather than the purpose, as one would use an seemingly incoherent narrative technique to create the "meta"experience.

Oh I just HAVE to jump in here, META any piece of literature is fine, as long as the experience warrants it, however when the conclusion of a series REQUIRES massive META, and major speculation, that's where I draw the line!!!

The ending shouldn't leave more questions, than answers, that's the WHOLE idea behind a COHERENT finish.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

MakeMineMako wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

Drenick18 wrote...

"Masterpiece" is kind of pushing it though.

Well, it depends.

I did found it a masterpiece, because although my very first reaction was dissapointment on the incoherent narrative,  I gradually started realising the aspect of the game's very ending, while scenes, concepts and elements from the previous games were rushing into my head without the "forced narrative guidance" (which unfortunately exists in so many games).

The fact that the game itself, put me through the forementioned procedure without forcing me into it, makes me think that it was a masterpiece - as a whole series linked through the series ending.

Glad you liked it.

But, in my opinion, calling it a "masterpiece" is a bit over the top. It was a decent game with a few flaws. Until the ending (last ten minutes, give or take) screwed it up. That's my take on it, in any case.

Quoted for emphasis^^^^

[Smitridel]

Sublyminal wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

odds are there would be SOMEONE that thought the ending was awesome. Ask them to play Deus Ex HR or the first Deus Ex and then see of they still think it is awesome.

I've actually played both games, although I dont remember what happened in the last mission in the first Deus Ex - it's been years.
However, I cant compare Deus Ex HR with Mass Effect 3, because the first is a stand alone game (with some connections lore wise to the first Deus Ex) and the latter is a whole Trilogy with much more solid lore.

Now we know you're trolling. HR had the same exact ending that ME3 stole from, the same RGB ending. 

The 3 choise pattern is way more commonly used in games  than you think, not even taking into consideration DE and ME.
Besides I think that if your War Asset Score was low enough you only had two choises, no?

I already said that I cant compare the two of them because the HR is a stand alone game.
Mass Effect 3 is the LAST game from a total of 3.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Smitridel wrote...

Codeka wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

Codeka wrote...

See, the ending is so bad I don't even believe people when they say they liked it. Like I don't get the urge to argue or anything, I just don't even believe it's true no matter how hard I try,

How absurd/plothole ridden must something be for you to dislike it? What if godchild had been let's say a Polar Bear or if Joker was seen crashing the normandy into a Borg Cube - would you then think it was bad or would it still be a masterpiece?

You know, I can accept liking the concept of the ending. I dislike it strongly but I would respect an opinion or personal preference that was for the concept. The issue doesn't stopped there - The Ending was rushed and poorly implemented by the developers - throwing all artistic integrity arguments out the window.

It's a testimony to game dev failure, nothing else and so no smart/perceptive gamer can honestly like the ending. The can like the concept of the ending, the literary(lol) aspect of it but they can never honestly say it was well programmed/designed/thoughtout

Sorry for not quoting before. There are a lot of posts, you know, that I have not  had the time to answer.
Although I really dont get on what you want me to answer.

I respect your opinion, I dont agree, I find it a little too focused on the details not getting the whole picture, but still it's okay with me.

Although would you kindly elaborate on the programming or development failure? 
How was it rushed and poorly implemented/designed/ thoughtout? 

The way I see it, they wanted to give that vague or maybe incoherent feeling throughout the last moments, to get you right to the point of doubting if thats all there is, or maybe you (the player) can read more into it.

EDIT: Its all down to personal belief.
I choose to believe that it was all intentional, while you choose to believe that it was rushed, possibly taking into account the leaked interview about the Bioware writer and the cutting the ending story, while I havent read all that untill I had finished the game.

Some opinion's have more merit than others. My opinion is supported by evidence you actually point out in your edit there. All that considered you choose to ignore the evidence and still believe

Again, had they kept the ending as is but not rushed it - kept the space magic but with higher production values and no plot holes - I would not argue against you. It's not the case though, the ending is crap and I can't respect the opinion that it's good anymore than I could respect the opinion that actual crap (feces) is good.

All opinions on a game being pleasurable or not, have merit.
It's not a matter of evidence.
It's not a matter of popular belief.
It's a matter of personal preference while backed up by arguments.

I detect a kind of elitism here, no?

If you didnt read the "evidence" would you still think of it as crap? Or maybe the "evidence" made it a bit crappier?
Again, I dont choose to ignore the...evidence.
I liked the ending for the reasons explained above.
Now that I know the evidence, it doesnt make a difference to me, because I got what they wanted to give to the player even while not knowing why they cut some elements of the ending.

What 'evidence', praytell? the only thing you've presented is MORE speculation, which can be beneficial, if it hasn't been shown several times already.

Again.....what "evidence"? aaaah further speculation..............good, I was getting lost in the Evidence-room.

If you KNOW what Bioware were intending with this "bull-cookie" ending, maybe ENLIGHTEN the ENTIRE forum, with your WISDOM?? HHMMM???

[OH-UP-THIS!]

ed87 wrote...

If you chose multiplayer over single-player when you bought the game i think youre exactly the type of person this game is being marketed to. Congratulations

Point well made.
 
OP, now go back to the couch and finish whtever that CODfish is serving, run along now.

[Smitridel]

ohupthis wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

Codeka wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

Codeka wrote...

See, the ending is so bad I don't even believe people when they say they liked it. Like I don't get the urge to argue or anything, I just don't even believe it's true no matter how hard I try,

How absurd/plothole ridden must something be for you to dislike it? What if godchild had been let's say a Polar Bear or if Joker was seen crashing the normandy into a Borg Cube - would you then think it was bad or would it still be a masterpiece?

You know, I can accept liking the concept of the ending. I dislike it strongly but I would respect an opinion or personal preference that was for the concept. The issue doesn't stopped there - The Ending was rushed and poorly implemented by the developers - throwing all artistic integrity arguments out the window.

It's a testimony to game dev failure, nothing else and so no smart/perceptive gamer can honestly like the ending. The can like the concept of the ending, the literary(lol) aspect of it but they can never honestly say it was well programmed/designed/thoughtout

Sorry for not quoting before. There are a lot of posts, you know, that I have not  had the time to answer.
Although I really dont get on what you want me to answer.

I respect your opinion, I dont agree, I find it a little too focused on the details not getting the whole picture, but still it's okay with me.

Although would you kindly elaborate on the programming or development failure? 
How was it rushed and poorly implemented/designed/ thoughtout? 

The way I see it, they wanted to give that vague or maybe incoherent feeling throughout the last moments, to get you right to the point of doubting if thats all there is, or maybe you (the player) can read more into it.

EDIT: Its all down to personal belief.
I choose to believe that it was all intentional, while you choose to believe that it was rushed, possibly taking into account the leaked interview about the Bioware writer and the cutting the ending story, while I havent read all that untill I had finished the game.

Some opinion's have more merit than others. My opinion is supported by evidence you actually point out in your edit there. All that considered you choose to ignore the evidence and still believe

Again, had they kept the ending as is but not rushed it - kept the space magic but with higher production values and no plot holes - I would not argue against you. It's not the case though, the ending is crap and I can't respect the opinion that it's good anymore than I could respect the opinion that actual crap (feces) is good.

All opinions on a game being pleasurable or not, have merit.
It's not a matter of evidence.
It's not a matter of popular belief.
It's a matter of personal preference while backed up by arguments.

I detect a kind of elitism here, no?

If you didnt read the "evidence" would you still think of it as crap? Or maybe the "evidence" made it a bit crappier?
Again, I dont choose to ignore the...evidence.
I liked the ending for the reasons explained above.
Now that I know the evidence, it doesnt make a difference to me, because I got what they wanted to give to the player even while not knowing why they cut some elements of the ending.

What 'evidence', praytell? the only thing you've presented is MORE speculation, which can be beneficial, if it hasn't been shown several times already.

Again.....what "evidence"? aaaah further speculation..............good, I was getting lost in the Evidence-room.

If you KNOW what Bioware were intending with this "bull-cookie" ending, maybe ENLIGHTEN the ENTIRE forum, with your WISDOM?? HHMMM???

Read Codeka's post. He is the one first reffering to the supposed Evidence. Hence the "  " .
Both Codeka and myself are reffering to the leaked story of the writer.
Before rage mode on, please read carefully mate.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Fingertrip wrote...

The people that don't understand Mass Effect lore, or were even considered fans- do not comprehend the ending.

Only the true believers, and smart people can understand the conclusion, and feel satisfied. It's what Bioware originally wanted. To please the people with knowledge with a teaser-ending, and have a conclussion for the non-commited fans of the series.

They seperate the sheep from the herd. It's quite lovely to be a part of, and knowing that you are blissed.

WOW, what a LOOOOONG winded punchline, excuse me, but could you tell me the joke again?

Whoa, IQ in the 200's and that statement is uh, i'm not sure yet, insulting, just like the ending, yeah that's it, an insult.

[Sohlito]

AlexXIV wrote...

Almighty_Hoogs wrote...

Sohlito wrote...

Can I reiterate a very simple point many seem to have forgotten? It's HIS opinion. It's HIS perspective. For the most part, he's remained relatively civil about sharing it. It's one thing to nurture rational discussion/debate on those differing views, entirely another to try and assert yours over someone elses or outright disregard them because they don't match.

OP, while I disagree with your opinions overall, I commend you for maintaining your civility while defending them.

I agree with this statement. If the fella/lass likes the ending,fair enough. I just feel the ending, in my view, was crap. I would have liked there to be a "happy ending" as a choice. But we didn't get it. I wouldn't have minded a bitter-sweet ending aswell (red dead redemption).

Blah civil. Get real guys. He was using flame bait to begin with and every 2nd post includes a veiled insult hurled at someone. This is a troll topic, period. And he is making sure it stays up. I don't care how successful he is trolling but for god's sake see him for what he is, a troll. Being civil or not doesn't make the difference between a troll or a poster who thinks he has something to say. Try to be a bit less superficial and look behind the words. I prefer constructive criticism in any case, even if it is rude, to a troll attempt no matter how civil it appears.

Do you call the kettle black much?

I took the time to go back an read through the ENTIRE thread again. What I can see is someone having to defend themselves for sharing their perspective on the ending. In so far as being called a troll. One poster even had the audacity to outright denounce his opinion on the grounds that he chose to play Multiplayer and not beat the game fast enough. I mean, even you would have to concede that a comment like that is ridiculous.

Not everyone who finds something to like about the ending is a troll. Some genuinely just want to post their differing view. Some do it to spark genuine discussion/debate. And while yes, there are genuine trolls here, they don't post for one specific side of the argument

[Sublyminal]

Smitridel wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

odds are there would be SOMEONE that thought the ending was awesome. Ask them to play Deus Ex HR or the first Deus Ex and then see of they still think it is awesome.

I've actually played both games, although I dont remember what happened in the last mission in the first Deus Ex - it's been years.
However, I cant compare Deus Ex HR with Mass Effect 3, because the first is a stand alone game (with some connections lore wise to the first Deus Ex) and the latter is a whole Trilogy with much more solid lore.

Now we know you're trolling. HR had the same exact ending that ME3 stole from, the same RGB ending. 

The 3 choise pattern is way more commonly used in games  than you think, not even taking into consideration DE and ME.
Besides I think that if your War Asset Score was low enough you only had two choises, no?

I already said that I cant compare the two of them because the HR is a stand alone game.
Mass Effect 3 is the LAST game from a total of 3.

I have seen TWO. Three if you include the original Deus Ex game that had the RGB endings. Point out more that have the RGB endings. I have been gaming since before the first Video Game crash and I can only think of three.