46 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

BIO18 wrote...

I want to play the warden, and I should be just as able to get what I want then you.

No, you shouldn't.

mousestalker wrote...

In Awakening, you get to play an Orlesian Warden if you snuffed it in Origins.

If the Warden dies and you import a save into Awakening, you have to play the dead Warden. I gather this is a bug of some sort because your DA:O save file doesn't have anything that indicates the Warden died.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 29 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[Fast Jimmy]

And, to be fair, I (and I'm sure others) are not champions of the idea of having a new character. But the amount of effort and money it would take for EA/Bioware to pull it off would be prohibitive. It would have to be one or the other. I know you say 'just make it an option!' but it is not nearly that simple.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

BIO18 wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

BIO18 wrote...

Yes for you... but why should your opinion be better then mine? Why because YOU want to play a new character I can't play mine?
That is why the choice would be cool... nothing is forced this way...

I believe you were asking for people to chime in with what they thought and what their opinion on the matter was. Folks are providing just that. 

Yes that is what I'm saying.
You guys want to play a new character, thats awsome. And you should be able to!
I want to play the warden, and I should be just as able to get what I want then you.

The problem is, we can understand your reason. But what about those people who never read your thread? The issues that nightscrawl mentioned are preciously why these people will come and ask or bomb BioWare. You can justify whatever reasoning behind the those choices. But not these people. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 29 avril 2012 - 02:52 .

[Corker]

If all OP wants is the same old face and one spoken line, then... why not make a 'new' character that looks like your Warden or your Hawke? In disguise, obviously, which is why you're missing your blood mark (or your race, or your voice is wrong). Nobody will ID you directly, but everytime an NPC mentions the deeds of the Hero of Ferelden/the Champion of Kirkwall, oh yeah - you know they're talkin' 'bout you.

Isn't that a lot easier than shoehorning in an import feature that'll probably make hash out of a DAO face morph anyway?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

In Awakening, you get to play an Orlesian Warden if you snuffed it in Origins.

If the Warden dies and you import a save into Awakening, you have to play the dead Warden. I gather this is a bug of some sort because your DA:O save file doesn't have anything that indicates the Warden died.

Bug? I thought it was intentional, a retcon so that a player who wanted to play their Warden wasn't forced to do the entire Denerim Siege all over again.

It did suck for those who wanted the Orlesian Warden to be a continuation point from a US Warden, however. :/

[ReallyRue]

As other people have said, unless the main character is completely pointless to the narrative, or just one basic detail is important (like the fact they're influential/famous, maybe), then it just won't work. If the story is a mage/templar war, then the Warden/Hawke would be received completely differently by differently by different people.

Not to mention all the variables. Just with the Warden, you have to consider appearance, imported decisions, romance, voice, class, etc etc. Add the Hawke and there's even more variables.

[AkiKishi]

That would require many times the work and have limited reward. Kind of like how they say Mass Effect 3 is the best time to join the series, when playing a default character means most of the content is lacking.

[GarethJShep]

bioware give us the choice in mass effect.. and everyone hated the endings look were that got them... so i dont think they will give us the choice in this one.

[GhostlyMaiden]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

In Awakening, you get to play an Orlesian Warden if you snuffed it in Origins.

If the Warden dies and you import a save into Awakening, you have to play the dead Warden. I gather this is a bug of some sort because your DA:O save file doesn't have anything that indicates the Warden died.

Bug? I thought it was intentional, a retcon so that a player who wanted to play their Warden wasn't forced to do the entire Denerim Siege all over again.

It did suck for those who wanted the Orlesian Warden to be a continuation point from a US Warden, however. :/

It was. Devs themselves said so before Awakening was released even.

@OP - Yes, it would be cool, but on a realistic approach based on what I've seen in other BW games, it wouldn't add up to much. Everything your warden or Hawke did would be relegated to one-liner mentions and very short cameos with "bonus" dialogue depending on how you interacted with said cameos.

I rather like the new character for each game approach though as long as said character's stories actually feel complete. DA2's ending left me very unfulfilled.

Edit: Whoops. No Spoilers Allowed board.

Modifié par GhostlyMaiden, 29 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[Aldandil]

GhostlyMaiden wrote...


It was. Devs themselves said so before Awakening was released even.

Edit: Whoops. No Spoilers Allowed board.

I thought the main reason was that it was too hard to import your DA:O dead warden backstory with a new PC. I could be wrong, but that would obviously be the best solution to deal with the dead warden problem (unless people wanted to revive them, of course).

Regarding the topic in general:

"Every time someone claims that a feature would
surely be easy to add to the game, somewhere a kitten is punted through a
plate glass window. Please -- think of the kittens."
-David Gaider, Lead Writer, Dragon Age: Origins

Modifié par Aldandil, 29 avril 2012 - 03:55 .

[Pasquale1234]

There are a few primary reasons, I think, why such an option will not be provided:

1) That pesky VO.  For a Hawke import to make sense, you would need to use the same VAs from DA2, but using Hawke's VAs for any other character would not make sense.  To offer this option in a reasonably satisfying way would require multiple VAs for the protag, which is quite resource-intensive.

2) Highly customized Wardens.  Wardens can be elves, dwarves, or humans, and BioWare doesn't seem too keen on supporting more than one race for the protag anymore.  In addition, many players are fairly attached to the Wardens they hand-crafted, and for them to be brought forward into a game where the protag is (at least partly) pre-defined, fully animated, voiced, and with entirely different game mechanics is, well...  pretty hard to imagine.

3) Different levels / skills / abilities.  Some players would be pretty unhappy if you took their super-awesome-heroic-champion-whatever character back to level 1 to start over again.  Some Wardens may have been defined by their coercion, survival, or crafting skills, or a bard or ranger spec - things that may or may not exist in future games.

4) Returning NPCs / Recurring issues.  Any Warden or Hawke would already have a relationship with NPCs from their respective game, and also any issues that might be presented.  You may have played a Warden that terminated or rescued the Circle of Magi, ditto Hawke.  Neither of them would have a clean-slate neutral stance toward the NPCs or issues that a new protag would have.

Those are just a few of the higher-level issues that would need to be covered, and there are many more, some of which have already been mentioned.  They could, I suppose, create a generic new protag with no history, no backstory, no references to any title or name by NPCs, and no specific link to the story - that may allow the player to create a character that closely resembles a Warden or Hawke - but I think it would be diametrically opposed to the overall direction they desire, which is to create a pre-defined protag so they can define more of the character's personality and behaviors via cinematics and VO.

[GhostlyMaiden]

Aldandil wrote...

GhostlyMaiden wrote...


It was. Devs themselves said so before Awakening was released even.

Edit: Whoops. No Spoilers Allowed board.

I thought the main reason was that it was too hard to import your DA:O dead warden backstory with a new PC. I could be wrong, but that would obviously be the best solution to deal with the dead warden problem (unless people wanted to revive them, of course).

Regarding the topic in general:

"Every time someone claims that a feature would
surely be easy to add to the game, somewhere a kitten is punted through a
plate glass window. Please -- think of the kittens."
-David Gaider, Lead Writer, Dragon Age: Origins

I only meant the "intentional" part was true. As far as reasons go, I think they just said "If that's how you want to play it, then your Warden is alive". If they made any further mentions why on the boards, then I missed it. I would have preferred making an Orlesian Warden with import decisions carried over. Not sure why they didn't make that an option.

[TEWR]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

In Awakening, you get to play an Orlesian Warden if you snuffed it in Origins.

If the Warden dies and you import a save into Awakening, you have to play the dead Warden. I gather this is a bug of some sort because your DA:O save file doesn't have anything that indicates the Warden died.

Bug? I thought it was intentional, a retcon so that a player who wanted to play their Warden wasn't forced to do the entire Denerim Siege all over again.

It did suck for those who wanted the Orlesian Warden to be a continuation point from a US Warden, however. :/

Correct. Gaider has gone on record to say it was deliberately done that way. Not so much to avoid the siege again IIRC, but just because. You can't import your file with a dead Warden and play an Orlesian Warden. They're apparently mutually exclusive.

Which I can understand why that made some people angry. What's the point of playing as an Orlesian Warden if you can't see how the world reacts to your dead Warden's choices?

Not that Awakening really did much of that, but that seemed to be the mindset people had going in when they first started playing.

BIO18 wrote...

I don't mind sarcasm, but tell me... How is it hard for the devs to allow you to import the apperance and ad just one NPC say "omg you are the warden" ??? and not change anything else ?

Because that cheapens the story as a result.

I'd encourage what Brockololly has suggested in the past, because that's the Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn method.

Though you couldn't control what your protagonists said -- you never can, not even in Fire Emblem 7 IIRC -- the game's story played out with you switching protagonists for certain quest arcs.

Chapter 8 would have me play as Ike, while Chapter 9 would have me play as Micaiah, and chapter 11 would have me play as Elincia.

Basic gist of how it went. I'm sure I got the actual chapters wrong, but that is how it went. A war would be going on and you could play both sides of the war, because characters were fighting each other.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 avril 2012 - 01:27 .

[jackofalltrades456]

Ok....


1: It's been ten years since the events of the first game. With the exception of Leliana and Loghain, It's not like everyone in Orlais is going to just immediately recognize the Warden on first sight.

2: The facial customization issue can be easily fixed by just making the player reconstruct character's face in the beginning.

3: There's no doubt in my mind that people would complain about losing their specializations from Origins. Personally, I wouldn't really care if my Warden lost his AW spec, or if he was reset back to level one.

4: The Warden would have to be voiced. Voice Actors are very expensive and the Warden would require a lot of them.  *sigh* I don't understand why Bioware made it mandatory that every protagonist needs to be voiced in their recent titles. It seems like their restricting race selection and cutting dialog out just so the protagonist can dance a little during cutscenes.....



I would absolutely love having my Warden or Hawke return as a playable protagonist in Dragon Age 3, but it will never happen. I don't even want to see a cameo unless it's only a three second thumbs up.

Maybe if we get extremely lucky, they'll do a Warden or Hawke expansion that's completely separate from the story.

But even that's unlikely.....

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 29 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

GhostlyMaiden wrote...

I would have preferred making an Orlesian Warden with import decisions carried over. Not sure why they didn't make that an option.

I'm hoping it was an oversight, myself. Or that they wanted to make this possible, but couldn't figure out how to import a save game and tie it to a brand new character creation. I can see how that would be tricky. Ultimately it may have come to creating your Orlesian Warden and then manually choosing which DA:O decisions were made to set the appropriate flags for Awakening. Fiddly, but it's the sort of thing that might feature in future DA games if they're wanting to fix the mess of bugged flags we currently have.

[G00N3R7883]

BIO18 wrote...

Why not just give us the choice?

The main problem I have with this idea is from the story point of view - does it make sense for either Warden or Hawke or both or neither to be involved?

I'd honestly prefer for Bioware to come up with an amazing story and then just use whichever character(s) make sense, rather than force certain characters into a place they might not fit. (btw this also applies to companions).

Of course, maybe its just as simple as saying "Cassandra was looking for them both to help fight the Big Bad, but she only found <insert player choice here>".

[Pedrak]

OP, what you are suggesting would imply either one of the most expensive single player RPGs ever made (if done well, that is having plotlines, dialogues and supporting cast which "suit" the different protagonists and adapt to them at least to an extent) or a terribly generic and linear narrative in which it doesn't matter what you did in the previous games (apart for the occasional "Hey, I know you!" NPC you are suggesting), what choices you made, whom you befriended and whether you are a legendary hero like the Warden, a well-known figure like Hawke or a relative newcomer.

Ex. would a mage NPC in DA3 treat, say, a circle-killing Warden, a Meredith-fighting Hawke or a new unknown guy in the same way? How could these three different protagonists with different backgrounds play the same role in DA3's main conflict? Would they be asked to deal with the same kind of quests, given the same objectives?
I believe it just can't be done, sorry. 

Modifié par Pedrak, 30 avril 2012 - 02:47 .

[PsychoBlonde]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I'm quite fine with having a new protagonist. That's the direction that Bioware seems to be going in, and if that's how the overall story is going to play out, I'm in for the ride.

I wish they'd done the New Protagonist for Mass Effect.  I might have actually tried 2 and 3.

[AkiKishi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Because that cheapens the story as a result.

I'd encourage what Brockololly has suggested in the past, because that's the Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn method.

Though you couldn't control what your protagonists said -- you never can, not even in Fire Emblem 7 IIRC -- the game's story played out with you switching protagonists for certain quest arcs.

Chapter 8 would have me play as Ike, while Chapter 9 would have me play as Micaiah, and chapter 11 would have me play as Elincia.

Basic gist of how it went. I'm sure I got the actual chapters wrong, but that is how it went. A war would be going on and you could play both sides of the war, because characters were fighting each other.

That's different to choosing the protagonist for the duration. You can't for example import an Ike file ,even if you played the previous game. You can only play Ike when the game allows.

The Hawke/Warden thing aside - Brings its own complications. Having multiple protagonists might work as long as each one came with limited recruting options. Seeing the Mage/Templar conflict from different points of view as well as allowing different gameplay.
It would need to be determined by the story though, rather than a choice, or you would need to record far more lines than is practical.

[mopotter]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I'm quite fine with having a new protagonist. That's the direction that Bioware seems to be going in, and if that's how the overall story is going to play out, I'm in for the ride.

I wish they'd done the New Protagonist for Mass Effect.  I might have actually tried 2 and 3.

I would not have minded a new protagonist in the ME series.  I enjoyed 2 far more than I had expected to.  I loved 3, some of the stories are amazing.... and then there was the end which made me wish they had stopped at 1.  

I like the idea of a new protagonist in DA-3.  While it might be interesting to carry Hawke or the Warden over, as others have said, there are just too many problems with it, cost, LI, voice actor, having a story that would make sense no matter who it was about.  Just way too many problems.