130 réponses à ce sujet

[chevyguy87]

XTR3M3 wrote...

yep, I had no problems with the squadmate's AI. I wouldn't want them to do more. Insanity was easy enough in ME3. Making them do more would have made insanity a joke.

Agreed. 

[Allen Spellwaver]

o Ventus wrote...

Allen Spellwaver wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

The game is about Shepard, plus it would be too easy if your squadmates did all or even half the work. They're basically there to be bullet sponges and to give you the ability to use powers you wouldn't normally have.

Seriously, name one game in which the squadmates are actually good without being invincible or making gameplay boring.

Gears of War 1-3

I never saw those guys to take down the orc on turrets or do something to make my push easier.I thought what they can do is just provide enough firepower to prevent those stinkies from closing in.

There are orcs in Gears of War now?

I don't see any difference between those monsters except for  Darkspawns.

[AlanC9]

Amioran wrote...
Dragon Age's gameplay is built around the concept of you, as the player, being able to control all the party (as rpgs as BG), while ME is more built around the concept of controlling the main character only (as many other rpgs that focus only on one character).

In turn all the abilities, encounters, layout of the same, balancing etc., either the camera (and the way it is used) from which you see all of this is completely different between the two.

I think it's more accurate to say that DA:O is built around letting the player pick whichever method of party control he wants. The only thing a player really needs to do for himself is control placement of friendly-fire AoE spells, and that's only on the higher difficulty levels. That's the only thing I ever do, anyway.

[XTR3M3]

Seifer006 wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

yep, I had no problems with the squadmate's AI. I wouldn't want them to do more. Insanity was easy enough in ME3. Making them do more would have made insanity a joke.

then i guess the rest of us had a bad game copy. the majority of them agree with me on this issue. It's why I'm hoping Bioware addresses it

why would my opinion that the game would have been too easy if the squadmates helped more mean that you or anyone else had a bad copy? I did not say "your opinion was wrong", I just stated mine. I didn't need the squadmates to do more, nor did I want them to. Insanity is almost a joke as it is and in my opinion. Anything that would have made insanity any easier, like squadmates helping more, would have made the game less fun for me.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 29 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[tehturian]

I agree, the squad mate AI in Mass Effect 2 was excellent, the squad mates in ME3 felt like glorified canon fodder.

[nakayorz]

Seifer006 wrote...

prazision wrote...

Actually, now that I think on it, Kasumi in ME2 probably killed more guys than any of my Shepards did. She was constantly Shadow Striking and made good use of an SMG.

It's really odd that some characters seem to have much better AI than others. For me, Javik is a murder machine with his Dark Channel spell.

forgot about Kasumi. Your right! I did an entire playthrough with her when the DLC came out! I maxed out her Shadow Strike. She was so deadly. Took out entire Enemy-Shields...and more lol

Grunt was a powerhouse. His rage "NOW YOUR DEAD" was great against husks. plus that fortification being maxed out was perfectly for him to stay alive.

James is essentially Grunt's replacement in ME3. So why don't you use him? It's clear he can do the heavy lifting and go toe to toe with brutes while you sit back and watch.  
 

[Lhawke]

I just want them to stop huddling behind cover and do as they're told. When I place a diamond behind different cover I want them to go there. Also following into rooms where the door shuts behind you is bad too. I always send them in first now, yes take your time squad don't hurry, I don't mind standing here holding the door open, getting the crap shop out of me while you slowly run over to get in cover.
They fail to jump down with me in one mission every single time, I hit the form up command and they completely ignore it and get killed. They don't use their squad powers very often. I expect them to use theirs unless I have it turned off in the options. The number of times I've seen biotic liara backpeddle and get into cover and do nothing when a couple of husks run up to her and she gets mauled.
If the power use is on in options they should be using them when available not just occasionally.

Perhaps less of the fancy rolls and more obedience might be nice.

[Seifer006]

XTR3M3 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

yep, I had no problems with the squadmate's AI. I wouldn't want them to do more. Insanity was easy enough in ME3. Making them do more would have made insanity a joke.

then i guess the rest of us had a bad game copy. the majority of them agree with me on this issue. It's why I'm hoping Bioware addresses it

why would my opinion that the game would have been too easy if the squadmates helped more mean that you or anyone else had a bad copy? I did not say "your opinion was wrong", I just stated mine. I didn't need the squadmates to do more, nor did I want them to. Insanity is almost a joke as it is and in my opinion. Anything that would have made insanity any easier, like squadmates helping more, would have made the game less fun for me.

well then my apologies then.

since I assumed that's what you meant. Since my post wasn't about Insanity being easier. But enjoyment and key issues that others left that makes the game unjoyable.

aside from that. If you want Insanity to be challenging. Then do a clean playthrough Lvl 1 instead of NG+ (like most others have done)

[XTR3M3]

I will agree they don't obey very well but at least the don't stand behind you and hit you with friendly fire making your crosshair jump all over the place like they did in ME1. I kept wanting to pull a Gibbs and palm smack them on the back of the head and say "Knock it off".

[abaris]

XTR3M3 wrote...

I will agree they don't obey very well but at least the don't stand behind you and hit you with friendly fire making your crosshair jump all over the place like they did in ME1. I kept wanting to pull a Gibbs and palm smack them on the back of the head and say "Knock it off".

Oh, they hit you. It's just that is hasn't got any effect anymore.

[XTR3M3]

Seifer006 wrote...

well then my apologies then.

since I assumed that's what you meant. Since my post wasn't about Insanity being easier. But enjoyment and key issues that others left that makes the game unjoyable.

aside from that. If you want Insanity to be challenging. Then do a clean playthrough Lvl 1 instead of NG+ (like most others have done)

I actually do that, but not as an only ME3 playthrough. I do import a save game for the flags set from ME2 and ME1 choices but use the Gibbed save game editor to put my character back at level 1. I also use the "spectre mode" mod that increases difficulty.

I don't think that the AI is perfect, like they don't do what they are told very well....especially with the "form up" and other commands. I used a companion in Oblivion where the AI was too good and all they did was own everyone. I could just go AFK. I would be worried that if BioWare increased the AI, it could be too good. I would be happy if they would just do what they were told and followed your orders better.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 29 avril 2012 - 06:15 .

[Daiyus]

Could the AI be better? Of course! Is it game breaking? I personally don't think so. I rarely use the squad commands and generally don't have problems (in any of the trilogy). I notice somebody above say they found Garrus useless in ME2. I actually found him one of the more useful!

It seems to be very much down to playstyle. Maybe I'm so aggressive I don't notice my teammates failures? That said there are squad commands as a crutch. I really don't think that this is one of Mass Effects main problems.

[Amioran]

gmboy902 wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

The game is about Shepard, plus it would be too easy if your squadmates did all or even half the work. They're basically there to be bullet sponges and to give you the ability to use powers you wouldn't normally have.

Seriously, name one game in which the squadmates are actually good without being invincible or making gameplay boring.

Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age 2
Fallout 3
Fallout: New Vegas
Knights of the Old Republic
Knights of the Old Republic II
Skyrim

People, please, I get you want to contribute, but if you have to quote games at last know of what you are talking about.

DA, DA2, KoTOR, KOTOR 2 are all party based cRPGs, a thing completely different in the way gameplay is handed.

Fallaout 3 and NV had abysimal AI for followers then, of what the hell are you talking about?

For not talking about Skyrim.

Seriously guy, you have neither quoted one single title good, neither for luck, and there are many in the FPS department (that however have other primary focuses in confront to an rpg).

Modifié par Amioran, 29 avril 2012 - 06:48 .

[Amioran]

AlanC9 wrote...
I think it's more accurate to say that DA:O is built around letting the player pick whichever method of party control he wants. The only thing a player really needs to do for himself is control placement of friendly-fire AoE spells, and that's only on the higher difficulty levels. That's the only thing I ever do, anyway.

Exactly. The point is that the gameplay (as design of abilties, balance of encounters etc.) are all built around this concept (i.e. of controlling all the party if you want).

In a party based cRPG the party is, in fact, a fundamental aspect of the gameplay (the name says it already) so it is obvious that party AI is done well, but the reason is not only for how the AI is implemented (that in truth is a minor part, in fact DA:O was not so very good at it in many instances), it has to do more with all the context in the gameplay and how it is designed.

Modifié par Amioran, 29 avril 2012 - 06:55 .

[Impulse and Compulse]

Squadmates with abilities can be very useful.

Squadmates that focus on weapons-combat are as useful as a waterproof sponge.

Give them a gun that staggers and focus on those cooldowns.

[Stokie Stallion]

Give ashley a black widow spec her to weapons damage, no mattter where she pitches her tent its nice to see random bolts fly past my head damaging my targets, or liara to get them out of cover. They're an advantage not a solution

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Seifer006 wrote...

Amioran wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

The squadmates should be there for player to enjoy.
I understand if you're playing on Insanity, that they don't help out as much since it's all about the challenge.


This isn't about me being a bad player. It's about this problem that should have been fixed it's MASS EFFECT 3......not Mass Effect 1...... Bioware you had 5yrs to address this Issue. I'm not happy

What you say is true, but sadly I understand why the things are as they are.

Making the AI of squadmates and their usefulness be effective would mean altering probably completely the gameplay to make the encounters balanced. This requires a lot of work.

Just a little example of this: try in coalesced to change the parameter of squadmates' damage from 50% to full 100%. Also without other changes (as their behaviour etc.) you will see immediately that the game becomes a complete joke. Squadmates will clear rooms very fast without you needing to do almost anything at all (or very little). This is because there are some factors that the AI is very good at, as targeting, not missing, illimitate ammo etc. etc.

Really it would mean changing the gameplay very severly and also change some parameters (as infinite ammo for squadmates) that could cause trouble depending on how they execute them. They would have also to balance weapons accordingly (so that they aren't too powerful on squadmates) etc. A lot of work.

I think Bioware just considered the pros and cons and decided to leave it at that for the trilogy given the amount of work it would require to balance the thing properly. Maybe in the future they will do this.

Yeah. You're right. I wish things could be more simple you  know. Back in ME2 - I used Grunt a lot. He was so reliable. Especially my Insanity playthroughs. I could count on him staying alive. He was a Tank!

Zaeed also. He was great.

I remember Garrus.........he was awful as a squadmate. He kept dying. He was at the Sniper Rife.......but he was always dead so purpose was pointless.

There's many issues.Thanks for sharing and giving a concise answer. I appreciate it.

In that case I can't believe you liked Grunt, he's the worst of the lot. He's a freakin moron, charging into Shepard, Explosives, dancing Scions etc.

[Impulse and Compulse]

Amioran wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

The game is about Shepard, plus it would be too easy if your squadmates did all or even half the work. They're basically there to be bullet sponges and to give you the ability to use powers you wouldn't normally have.

Seriously, name one game in which the squadmates are actually good without being invincible or making gameplay boring.

Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age 2
Fallout 3
Fallout: New Vegas
Knights of the Old Republic
Knights of the Old Republic II
Skyrim

People, please, I get you want to contribute, but if you have to quote games at last know of what you are talking about.

DA, DA2, KoTOR, KOTOR 2 are all party based cRPGs, a thing completely different in the way gameplay is handed.

Fallaout 3 and NV had abysimal AI for followers then, of what the hell are you talking about?

For not talking about Skyrim.

Seriously guy, you have neither quoted one single title good, neither for luck, and there are many in the FPS department (that however have other primary focuses in confront to an rpg).

Fallout 3's followers could be damn useful. Some were just annoying (butch.....) but with Broken Steel, Fawkes and Dogmeat are quite literally almost invinceable. Fawkes could literally kill a Behemoth with his fists and not even lose half of his HP in the process. I spent an hour sneak-attack critting him with a sniper before he finally spotted me and wiped me off the face of the earth. And dog meat aggro'd every enemy in earshot and was replenishable.

And Fallout NV has some well-balanced ones. Boon pre-patch literally headshotted anything getting close to you, Veronica could take out a crowd of Super Mutants in the blink of an eye, Cass could be outfitted with a variety of equipment to make her a good all-round squadmate, Raul made your equipment hardly ever break, etc.

[SalsaDMA]

ZombieGambit wrote...

The game is about Shepard, plus it would be too easy if your squadmates did all or even half the work. They're basically there to be bullet sponges and to give you the ability to use powers you wouldn't normally have.

Seriously, name one game in which the squadmates are actually good without being invincible or making gameplay boring.

Clive Barkers Jericho...

You may hate the game, but the squad mates worked good in it.

And that was from the top of my head.

[abaris]

Amioran wrote...

Fallaout 3 and NV had abysimal AI for followers then, of what the hell are you talking about?

You're right about Fallout 3 but NVs follower AI is at least on par with ME3. You can't issue combat commands, but they're usually rather helpful, whilst with ME3 I constantly get attacked from behind because my squaddies are very otherwise engaged. Mostly with getting themselves killed at the first opportunity.

Skyrim's follower AI on the other hand is possibly the worst of all the games mentioned. In this case I would translate AI into artificial idiocy.

Modifié par abaris, 29 avril 2012 - 07:06 .

[Amioran]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...
Fallout 3's followers could be damn useful. Some were just annoying (butch.....) but with Broken Steel, Fawkes and Dogmeat are quite literally almost invinceable.

Invincibilty and AI are two separate arguments.

If a squadmate cannot almost die and it takes all threat (because the enemy AI is stupid, as it happens in Fallout 3) then that squadmate doesn't need to do anything at all.

Good AI is another thing.

Impulse and Compulse wrote...
And Fallout NV has some well-balanced ones. Boon pre-patch literally headshotted anything getting close to you, Veronica could take out a crowd of Super Mutants in the blink of an eye, Cass could be outfitted with a variety of equipment to make her a good all-round squadmate, Raul made your equipment hardly ever break, etc.

Again, you are talking about a different thing than squadmates AI.

Reality is that your "squadmate" in Fallout 3 and NV were as stupid as hell. In fact the only squadmates useful were those that were almost invincible or those that did a lot of damage to compensate, as you proved yourself.

[gigliani60]

I saw a point further up to which you replied, 'your ignorance is not amusing' when he made a completely valid point which is the answer to all your problems. Just command Vega, using left or right on the d-pad, or whatever buttons you use on the pc, into a group of enemies, and he will do well. I used similar tactics with Garrus. Stop telling everyone to read your original post properly when you dont take notice of peoples replies

[Dude_in_the_Room]

What would you rather? COD?

I've finished full levels just relying on my squadmates while I coward in cover.