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[spiriticon]

Another point:

If that last relay did go supernova Earth could not have possibly survived as it was in the same star system as the mass relay. What do you make of Shepard's last breath scene after that then?

How could Shepard have survived a supernova if the writers intended in to be that? Impossible. Hell in that scene we could see rubble too. Rubble could not have possibly survived a supernova. There would be nothing but a great big ball of white light in the whole star system.

Logical fallacy.

Modifié par spiriticon, 30 avril 2012 - 09:46 .

[Fixers0]

spiriticon wrote...

Another point:

If that last relay did go supernova Earth could not have possibly survived as it was in the same star system as the mass relay. What do you make of Shepard's last breath scene after that then?

How could Shepard have survived a supernova if the writers intended in to be that? Impossible. Hell in that scene we could see rubble too. Rubble could not have possibly survived a supernova. There would be nothing but a great big ball of white light in the whole star system.

Logical fallacy.

Indeed, the writes really weren't knowing what they were doing.

That, or there is a total disconection between the writers and the Animators.

Modifié par Fixers0, 30 avril 2012 - 09:47 .

[Ticonderoga117]

spiriticon wrote...

Another point:

If that last relay did go supernova Earth could not have possibly survived as it was in the same star system as the mass relay. What do you make of Shepard's last breath scene after that then?

How could Shepard have survived a supernova if the writers intended in to be that? Impossible. Hell in that scene we could see rubble too. Rubble could not have possibly survived a supernova. There would be nothing but a great big ball of white light in the whole star system.

Logical fallacy.

How can Shep survive the Citadel exploding and the re-entry?

[Lookout1390]

No

The relays blew up, they are destroyed and gone forever. Unless we build new ones, they will stay gone forever.

There is no ending where they survive or are intact.

You people can dissect it all you want, but the relays are blown up.

[spiriticon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Another point:

If that last relay did go supernova Earth could not have possibly survived as it was in the same star system as the mass relay. What do you make of Shepard's last breath scene after that then?

How could Shepard have survived a supernova if the writers intended in to be that? Impossible. Hell in that scene we could see rubble too. Rubble could not have possibly survived a supernova. There would be nothing but a great big ball of white light in the whole star system.

Logical fallacy.

How can Shep survive the Citadel exploding and the re-entry?

Because the Citadel exploding does not wipe out a star system?

[Ticonderoga117]

spiriticon wrote...

Because the Citadel exploding does not wipe out a star system?

No no, Shep died after the SR-1 got fried. You expect us, even with his cybernetic upgrades, to believe Shep survived the pipe he walked into exploding, the Citadel exploding and falling apart, then the heat of re-entry, then LANDING ON THE GROUND? Are you nuts? Shep can NOT survive this unless we totally reject physics and introduce more magic.

Edit: All with half-melted armor I should add.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 30 avril 2012 - 10:00 .

[GLR-0053]

spiriticon wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Another point:

If that last relay did go supernova Earth could not have possibly survived as it was in the same star system as the mass relay. What do you make of Shepard's last breath scene after that then?

How could Shepard have survived a supernova if the writers intended in to be that? Impossible. Hell in that scene we could see rubble too. Rubble could not have possibly survived a supernova. There would be nothing but a great big ball of white light in the whole star system.

Logical fallacy.

How can Shep survive the Citadel exploding and the re-entry?

Because the Citadel exploding does not wipe out a star system?

What the hell does that have to do with Shepard survivng the Citadel falling to Earth?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

spiriticon wrote...

delphonic wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Er they have. AND THEY TOLD YOU IT HASN'T GONE SUPERNOVA. SO WHY ARE WE STILL WASTING TIME WITH THIS ARGUMENT?

ugh.

It still bothers me and I don't believe BioWare when they say "No, the Mass Relays didn't explode this time" for the following reasons:

A) We literally see them explode on screen. From the relay explosion animation to the galaxy map and the Normandy fleeing for it's life from the giant explosions.

 It is well established in ME lore that any time a Mass Relay is destroyed (Starchild uses the word "destroyed") it causes a supernova explosion

C) Because it's such an obvious "oops" moment by BioWare and they're simply trying to save face. They can claim that the mass relays turned all the Reapers into ice cream and apple pie if they want to... but it's obviously BS and anyone who played the games knows it.

But what they say goes. Unless there are explicit cinematics showing the destruction of the universe and everyone in it, anything that we assume happening as a result of a cinematic showing a small explosion in that last mass relay is just speculation.

If it's just speculation, then when they say NO, it means NO. That line of speculation has to end there because there is no longer any basis for it.

If they show you Thessia, Rannoch, Tuchanka and Earth being burnt to a crisp along with the Normandy and everything else, then yeah shout 'retcon' all you want.

That's what I don't get. I don't mind speculations. But in this case a writer has explicitly come out and said "you're going down the wrong path".

This couldn't be further from the truth.  Regardless of what the writers say after the fact, if it isn't communicated in the game, then it didn't happen.  And because it isn't communicated clearly, some speculation isn't just reasonable, it's required.  And what will people use as their natural point of reference?  Arrival. Which is the only place where we see what happens when a mass relay is destroyed.

[Leafs43]

Last DLC of ME2, show what happens when a mass relay blows up.

Skip forward to mass effect 3, end the game with blowing up mass relays and then ambiguously say they overloaded.


5 doses of speculation please.

[suusuuu]

But the catalyst doesn't use the word "overload." It specifically uses the word "destroy." Now, you'd think a highly advanced AI would be able to discern between the two.

[Lookout1390]

I don't even ****ing care if the relay goes supernova or not.

The relays are gone and everyone is stranded on a scarred-to-hell-and-back earth.

So whoever managed to not die to the reapers, is rewarded with X amount of days of a miserable slow death.

Thanks Shepard, for saving us from the Reapers just so we all get to slowly kill each other for food/water while the dextro's die out even faster, then everybody else dies.

Don't even get me started on the whole 'hurr we don't need the relays for interstellar travel" crap.

[GreggerG]

1. If you want the players to understand your personally intended outcome of the events on screen, then you need to make it clear what happened and what the results are.

2. If you want the players to know that the relays overloaded rather than exploded, then the simple way to do that is to not show them exploding in a cutscene.

3. If you want the players to differentiate between relay explosion A in which it goes supernova and destroys everything and relay explosion B which is somehow different (even though the same potential energy, in the form of Eezo, exists in the relay in both explosions) then make it clear through dialog, the video of said explosion, or a codex entry that we can read.

Problem solved!

[Muhkida]

Realistically anything that has the mass/energy equivalent of an object that can go supernova won't explode gently regardless. Even if the mass relays didn't go supernova, they were destroyed to the point where shockwaves were created. Shockwaves that rippled so quickly (probably half light speed) and came from something with so much energy. The most important factor, the Charon Relay is in the Sol System. I say that's a little to close to Earth for something that exploded with that kind of magnitude (being able to see shockwaves outside the Milky Way is pretty big IMO).

I'm not saying those shockwaves (whether it was a supernova or not) shouldn't substantially mess up the Earth's magnetosphere, gravity, axis, and revolution cycle. I'm not saying there should be a high possibility that every living organism on that planet should've been fried or ripped to pieces do to the sheer amount of speed/force from the shockwave itself. It's Bioware's story, if they want to ignore a realistic cause/effect, that's up to them. We can only pick the paths that the company has left open for us.

[spiriticon]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

This couldn't be further from the truth.  Regardless of what the writers say after the fact, if it isn't communicated in the game, then it didn't happen.  And because it isn't communicated clearly, some speculation isn't just reasonable, it's required.  And what will people use as their natural point of reference?  Arrival. Which is the only place where we see what happens when a mass relay is destroyed.

Agreed that some specuation is necessary. And the assumption that the relay went supernova is a fair one, had we not been told that it's not true by the writers themselves. We did see bits of the mass relay falling apart in the midst of explosions but we didn't see anything after that. We assumed that what happened is the same as in Arrival but that's now not the case.

Oh and regarding Shepard's re-entry, didn't Liara save his ass at some point? While I can suspend belief enough to think he could be saved from a fall from the SR-1, I can't do that for a supernova because you're wiping things out on a star system scale.

If we are forced to believe that Shepard could survive a supernova, then the star system isn't destroyed because he needs somewhere to land on.

[Gmandam]

Arrival shows a relay getting destroyed and how do we see the resulting super nova Via the galaxy map.

End of me3 shows the Charon relay blowing up and then sending a beam to another relay. Fast forward a bit and we now look at the galaxy map showing spherical energy waves leaving every cluster. One of the few things visible from our perception would a super nova.

Couple this with the Arrival DLC, the events we just saw and the catalyst saying it would destroy the relays and the only logical conclusion is that every relay went nova. Taking the whole/most of the galaxy with it. This is ofc the worst option.

Twitter doesn't count as a story telling tool. If you need to use twitter as such your story has already failed and needs more clarification.

[Ultra Prism]

Only in the Control Ending they show Relays not completely exploding and Citadel surviving ... the other endings the relays are exploding and its superstructure is separating .... Yes Patrick Weekes is right only in Control Ending ... otherwise I am still not sure ... they blow up ... but the type of energy is not clear

[spiriticon]

Well how does Shepard and Joker and the Normandy survive a assumed supernova chain in the ending? Just how? How does everyone else in the universe get wiped out by this supernova chain except Shepard and his crew?

Whatever planet X Joker landed on would have been wiped out because that planet X had to be near a mass relay for him to crash land on it.

The only logical explanation is that the multiple explosions as seen in the cinematics weren't supernovas.

[Ariq]

spiriticon wrote...

He even goes out of his way to state that "we really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed". Considering how tight-lipped they have been about the ending, that's as explicit as you're gonna get.

So, when you say "official statement" what you mean is an a-contextual, paraphrased quote, relayed to us secondhand from another forum. All from a post that disavows being official and has the specific caveat that the author can't remember what the answers were. And which clearly denies the visuals from the endgame cinematics in a massive retcon. Sure. That's "official". 

It's almost as good as a noncommittal rumour that may or may not have been confirmed on Twitter. What do we even need canon for? Who needs official clarification? We have half-answers from dodgy sources posting on the Internet.

[spiriticon]

Weekes himself posted on his twitter acknowledging that interview did happen. Sure it is unfortunate that it is paraphrased (sometimes in a negative way), but that one interview is legit.

[Gmandam]

spiriticon wrote...

Well how does Shepard and Joker and the Normandy survive a assumed supernova chain in the ending? Just how? How does everyone else in the universe get wiped out by this supernova chain except Shepard and his crew?

Whatever planet X Joker landed on would have been wiped out because that planet X had to be near a mass relay for him to crash land on it.

The only logical explanation is that the multiple explosions as seen in the cinematics weren't supernovas.

Supernova's travel at the speed of light. The normandy has a FTL drive. They would have had time to land and still get novaed. After all we'd only know about a nova 8 minutes after the fact (If the sun went nova right now).

Modifié par Gmandam, 30 avril 2012 - 11:13 .

[spiriticon]

Gmandam wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Well how does Shepard and Joker and the Normandy survive a assumed supernova chain in the ending? Just how? How does everyone else in the universe get wiped out by this supernova chain except Shepard and his crew?

Whatever planet X Joker landed on would have been wiped out because that planet X had to be near a mass relay for him to crash land on it.

The only logical explanation is that the multiple explosions as seen in the cinematics weren't supernovas.

Supernova's travel at the speed of light. The normandy has a FTL drive. They would have had time to land and still get novaed. After all we'd only know about a nova 8 minutes after the fact (If the sun went nova right now).

Err the Normandy was crash landing. It was defo not travelling at FTL otherwise it would have successfully evaded the original pul;se.

Edit: Also, if it crash landed on a planet at FTL speed I reckon Joker would not be getting out to see any sunshine.

Modifié par spiriticon, 30 avril 2012 - 11:19 .

[mashintao]

HERE IS THE IRREFUTABLE FACT PRESENTED BY THE GAME ITSELF:

Quote from the god child:
"Releasing the energy of the Crucible wil end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays."
-source: http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=294s

Ingame exert from the Mass Effect Secondary Codex, "The Reaper War - Desperate Measures":
"Although it has recently been demonstrated that mass relays can be destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay's solar system."
-source: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reaper_War

Ingame depiction of an actual relay rupturing after the crucible's energy passes through it:


This evidence of the galaxy being consumed by supernovas is undeniable as it is presented by the game itself and is further supported by the following scenes of the Normandy fleeing from the blast  - a very different kind of blast than the first crucible sent one which washed over the Earth without harming any humans.

Modifié par mashintao, 30 avril 2012 - 11:24 .

[slyborg]

suusuuu wrote...

But the catalyst doesn't use the word "overload." It specifically uses the word "destroy." Now, you'd think a highly advanced AI would be able to discern between the two.

Pretty much this. 

[sistersafetypin]

spiriticon wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

I read the title of this post and laughed hard for a good 2-3 min. I just recently got my breath back

No, as others have posted, with pictures, they blew up. we see parts flying. this is the same thing we see in Arrival.

I saw parts flying sure. But I didn't see a supernova explosion destroying everything in the universe. Did you?

Nope. I also didn't see the Bahak system explode. But those Batarians sure are pissed...

[Aaleel]

mashintao wrote...

HERE IS THE IRREFUTABLE FACT PRESENTED BY THE GAME ITSELF:

Quote from the god child:
"Releasing the energy of the Crucible wil end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays."
-source: http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=294s

Ingame exert from the Mass Effect Secondary Codex, "The Reaper War - Desperate Measures":
"Although it has recently been demonstrated that mass relays can be destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay's solar system."
-source: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reaper_War

Ingame depiction of an actual relay rupturing after the crucible's energy passes through it:


This evidence of the galaxy being consumed by supernovas is undeniable as it is presented by the game itself and is further supported by the following scenes of the Normandy fleeing from the blast  - a very different kind of blast that first washed over the Earth which did not apparently harm any humans.

THANK YOU.

If you go by the facts given in the actual game; dialogue, codex, past precedent, the relays went supernova.  Don't tell me what someone said on Twitter or in an interview.  Based on the given info in the game explain how the relays just overloaded and weren't destroyed. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 30 avril 2012 - 11:28 .