282 réponses à ce sujet

[NS Wizdum]

GreggerG wrote...

1. If you want the players to understand your personally intended outcome of the events on screen, then you need to make it clear what happened and what the results are.

2. If you want the players to know that the relays overloaded rather than exploded, then the simple way to do that is to not show them exploding in a cutscene.

3. If you want the players to differentiate between relay explosion A in which it goes supernova and destroys everything and relay explosion B which is somehow different (even though the same potential energy, in the form of Eezo, exists in the relay in both explosions) then make it clear through dialog, the video of said explosion, or a codex entry that we can read.

Problem solved!

This is what bothers me most about the ending plot holes. This is Sci-Fi, you can explain ANYTHING with Sci-Fi, just have some engineer utter a bunch of technical terms and something about "reversing the polarity" and all is well.

[Gmandam]

Ummm sorry I should have made myself clear. They were in FTL for the majority of the flight. They must have left FTL during the end and that jump must have lead them to a garden world. They were already out of FTL by the time they landed otherwise they would have died.

[spiriticon]

sistersafetypin wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

I read the title of this post and laughed hard for a good 2-3 min. I just recently got my breath back

No, as others have posted, with pictures, they blew up. we see parts flying. this is the same thing we see in Arrival.

I saw parts flying sure. But I didn't see a supernova explosion destroying everything in the universe. Did you?

Nope. I also didn't see the Bahak system explode. But those Batarians sure are pissed...

Hackett said it exploded, so we take his word for it. There was at least an audio reference made after the event to reinforce that it did happen.

[Lookout1390]

mashintao wrote...

HERE IS THE IRREFUTABLE FACT PRESENTED BY THE GAME ITSELF:

Quote from the god child:
"Releasing the energy of the Crucible wil end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays."
-source: http://www.youtube.c...ZuSHpWwo#t=294s

Ingame exert from the Mass Effect Secondary Codex, "The Reaper War - Desperate Measures":
"Although it has recently been demonstrated that mass relays can be destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay's solar system."
-source: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reaper_War

Ingame depiction of an actual relay rupturing after the crucible's energy passes through it:


This evidence of the galaxy being consumed by supernovas is undeniable as it is presented by the game itself and is further supported by the following scenes of the Normandy fleeing from the blast  - a very different kind of blast than the first crucible sent one which washed over the Earth without harming any humans.

****ing this

Can we please stop arguing over this ****?

READ HIS POST

[Balek-Vriege]

Aaleel wrote...

They can retcon all they want.



But I know what I saw, and I know what everything in the game points to.

And what you see is that big explosion in the middle fizzle, acting completely different than the arrival one which is much more chaotic and...supernovaish.  The energy ball surrounding the explosion continues on.  The same energy ball that the crucible gives off and is fairly harmless depending on EMS.

Conclusion:  Relays blew up but didn't supernova.  The main Crucible energy that spans the Galaxy is too large to be a relay "supernova" and would go against everything we see in the ending cinematics.

Much easier to see what is an explosion and what isn't in the Control/Synthesis endings.  I don't know why people thought they blew up like Arrival.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 30 avril 2012 - 11:34 .

[spiriticon]

I have read it. But if it were true, Shepard could not have survived is all I'm saying. Because that last breath scene is ALSO presented IN THE game.

[Lookout1390]

Well judging on the size of the explosion if it even could hit earth, I'm trying to remember where the relay was originally found.

The Sol relay was found near Pluto wasn't it?

But in the cutscene for the sword-fleet jumping through, it looks to be a stone's throw away from earth.

[mashintao]

spiriticon wrote...

I have read it. But if it were true, Shepard could not have survived is all I'm saying. Because that last breath scene is ALSO presented IN THE game.

Congratulations!  You have just earned the "Found a Plothole" achievement!

[Balek-Vriege]

mashintao wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

I have read it. But if it were true, Shepard could not have survived is all I'm saying. Because that last breath scene is ALSO presented IN THE game.

Congratulations!  You have just earned the "Found a Plothole" achievement!

Actually you can't get that plothole achievement because it isn't a plot hole...the relays didn't supernova...

[spiriticon]

mashintao wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

I have read it. But if it were true, Shepard could not have survived is all I'm saying. Because that last breath scene is ALSO presented IN THE game.

Congratulations!  You have just earned the "Found a Plothole" achievement!

I think it's more the "Supernova's didn't really happen" acheivement because there are also glaring plotholes which occur if it did.

[Aaleel]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

mashintao wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

I have read it. But if it were true, Shepard could not have survived is all I'm saying. Because that last breath scene is ALSO presented IN THE game.

Congratulations!  You have just earned the "Found a Plothole" achievement!

Actually you can't get that plothole achievement because it isn't a plot hole...the relays didn't supernova...

That big explosion there is where Shepard is.  Yeah it's a plothole. 

[mashintao]

If the relays DID supernova = plothole (shepard breathing) 
If the relays DIDNT supernova = plothole (ingame fact contradiction)

*Earns the "Checkmate" Achievement!

Modifié par mashintao, 30 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[XXIceColdXX]

It's ok, Shepard never made it onto the Citadel.

Holding the line.

[Lookout1390]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

It's ok, Shepard never made it onto the Citadel.

Holding the line.

[spiriticon]

mashintao wrote...

If the relays DID explode = plothole (see ingame evidence)
If the relays DIDNT explode = plothole (shepard breathing)

*Earns the "Checkmate" Achievement!

Not only Shepard but Joker's and the Normandy crew too. But one of the writers have already hinted at which one of it is. Hence the point of the topic.....

Ok anyway. It's been interesting. Time to move on.

[Balek-Vriege]

Aaleel wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

mashintao wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

I have read it. But if it were true, Shepard could not have survived is all I'm saying. Because that last breath scene is ALSO presented IN THE game.

Congratulations!  You have just earned the "Found a Plothole" achievement!

Actually you can't get that plothole achievement because it isn't a plot hole...the relays didn't supernova...

That big explosion there is where Shepard is.  Yeah it's a plothole. 

That's a different issue all together since it's the Crucible and possibly the Citadel blowing up.  It has nothing to do with relay "supernovas."  Shepard alive has to mean he/she survives that explosion somehow and the relays can't possibly supernova for that to happen.  If you want to debate how Shep survives "that," i'm all ears but again, not the point.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 30 avril 2012 - 11:46 .

[sistersafetypin]

It seems that people are missing the basic tenants of sci-fi. For it to work, there have to be acceptable rules of the universe. Like, E=mc^2 is a fact of our world. Mass Effect has a few of them. One of those is, when a relay is destroyed it goes Supernova.

It's not... When a relay is destroyed with an asteroid it goes Supernova. It's simply the destruction of the relay that causes the problem.

However, since so many people were upset by the idea of the the galaxy being turned into a wasteland... The writers are attempting to backtrack outside of the universe. And story-telling simply doesn't work that way, especially when dealing with sci-fi

[Funkdrspot]

Lol at people who still reference the codex as proof that the EM release at th end is the same as arrival.

Since the codex is a collection of KNOWN knowledge, how would It be updated for something unknown? How many times has someone witnessed the crucible being used to where someone could update the codex?! How would you guys suggest the codex be updated wih unknown info?

Simply put the codex is there as a reference for the story and it is always open to being updated.

[The Almighty Ali]

Because it was never stated otherwise and therefor with the facts we were presented by the Arrival DLC was that If a Mass Relay explode then it equals a super nova that destroys a solar system. And since you cause every Mass Relay to explode in ME 3 then the conculsion was that you destroyed the galaxy when you destroyed the Reapers.

That was the logical conclusions.
Saying "Oh it's a different kind of explosions" Also known as Space Magic, is something a four year old would come up with and wasn't a logical conclusion.

[Balek-Vriege]

sistersafetypin wrote...

It seems that people are missing the basic tenants of sci-fi. For it to work, there have to be acceptable rules of the universe. Like, E=mc^2 is a fact of our world. Mass Effect has a few of them. One of those is, when a relay is destroyed it goes Supernova.

It's not... When a relay is destroyed with an asteroid it goes Supernova. It's simply the destruction of the relay that causes the problem.

However, since so many people were upset by the idea of the the galaxy being turned into a wasteland... The writers are attempting to backtrack outside of the universe. And story-telling simply doesn't work that way, especially when dealing with sci-fi

Watch the actual youtube videos of the Arrival explosion and Ending explosion.  One is slow and chaotic eventually causing a supernova.  The other is a proper, intentional overload and the explosion nearly subsides looking more like a self destruct.  There is no super implosion looking anything like a supernova.  Only the crucible wave does that which energy wise, is probably using up most of the relay's energy to send out galactic spanning waves...

Therefore even before complaints started the relays never supernova.

Edit:

As for the Codex thing...

The scenario about the relays in the codex is about physical destruction.

The scenario at the end of ME3 is systemic destruction via the crucible using them as alactic energy wave emiters.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 30 avril 2012 - 11:54 .

[NS Wizdum]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Lol at people who still reference the codex as proof that the EM release at th end is the same as arrival.

Since the codex is a collection of KNOWN knowledge, how would It be updated for something unknown? How many times has someone witnessed the crucible being used to where someone could update the codex?! How would you guys suggest the codex be updated wih unknown info?

Simply put the codex is there as a reference for the story and it is always open to being updated.

Really, you going to go with that excuse?

[Funkdrspot]

sistersafetypin wrote...

It seems that people are missing the basic tenants of sci-fi. For it to work, there have to be acceptable rules of the universe. Like, E=mc^2 is a fact of our world. Mass Effect has a few of them. One of those is, when a relay is destroyed it goes Supernova.

It's not... When a relay is destroyed with an asteroid it goes Supernova. It's simply the destruction of the relay that causes the problem.

However, since so many people were upset by the idea of the the galaxy being turned into a wasteland... The writers are attempting to backtrack outside of the universe. And story-telling simply doesn't work that way, especially when dealing with sci-fi

you entire point is a fallacy. just because A happens once does not mean it happens every time. we've blown up a grand total of 1 relay. to make your assumption worse, they have a completely different scenario involving the crucible, the citadel, a daisy chain effect and an EM field but you guys are too invested in your position to admit that theres a point. its sad, really.

[Aaleel]

Balek-Vriege wrote.

That's a different issue all together since it's the Crucible and possibly the Citadel blowing up.  It has nothing to do with relay "supernovas."  Shepard alive has to mean he/she survives that explosion somehow and the relays can't possibly supernova for that to happen.  If you want to debate how Shep survives "that," i'm all ears but again, not the point.

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

[Funkdrspot]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Because it was never stated otherwise and therefor with the facts we were presented by the Arrival DLC was that If a Mass Relay explode then it equals a super nova that destroys a solar system. And since you cause every Mass Relay to explode in ME 3 then the conculsion was that you destroyed the galaxy when you destroyed the Reapers.

That was the logical conclusions.
Saying "Oh it's a different kind of explosions" Also known as Space Magic, is something a four year old would come up with and wasn't a logical conclusion.

the scenarios and the end effect are so different that it doesnt need to be stated. anyone that isnt purposely being obtuse for the sake of the ending being rewritten can see it

[sistersafetypin]

Funkdrspot wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

It seems that people are missing the basic tenants of sci-fi. For it to work, there have to be acceptable rules of the universe. Like, E=mc^2 is a fact of our world. Mass Effect has a few of them. One of those is, when a relay is destroyed it goes Supernova.

It's not... When a relay is destroyed with an asteroid it goes Supernova. It's simply the destruction of the relay that causes the problem.

However, since so many people were upset by the idea of the the galaxy being turned into a wasteland... The writers are attempting to backtrack outside of the universe. And story-telling simply doesn't work that way, especially when dealing with sci-fi

you entire point is a fallacy. just because A happens once does not mean it happens every time. we've blown up a grand total of 1 relay. to make your assumption worse, they have a completely different scenario involving the crucible, the citadel, a daisy chain effect and an EM field but you guys are too invested in your position to admit that theres a point. its sad, really.

If my entire post is a fallacy, why did Mac Walters say that the the reason there would be no sequals to ME3 was because no one would want to play a game set in a wasteland? Also, you are wrong again in the sense that the destruction of a relay causes a supernova is a fact in the ME world prior to all of this speculation. And If that is the case, then yes it will happen every time a relay is destroyed. 

But nice use of the word fallacy.

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 01 mai 2012 - 12:00 .