282 réponses à ce sujet

[Sypher_KoS]

BW says that they didn't go nova and destroy the galaxy. Fine, you're the writers so what you say happens is cannon.

The problem I have is that they act as if we were out of our minds to assume that the relays blowing up and falling apart would go nova. The only experiance we have with the destruction of a relay was arrival. We were given in fine detail what the destruction of the relay was suppose to do. since we are told by starkid that the relays will be destroyed, followed by an explosion, I don't feel it's lunacy to arrive at that conclusion.

Fans were quick to point out problems with cannon in the book and we did the same with the ending. They should have thought this out more and paid more attention to thier own lore.

[Balek-Vriege]

Aaleel wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote.

That's a different issue all together since it's the Crucible and possibly the Citadel blowing up.  It has nothing to do with relay "supernovas."  Shepard alive has to mean he/she survives that explosion somehow and the relays can't possibly supernova for that to happen.  If you want to debate how Shep survives "that," i'm all ears but again, not the point.

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

His surroundings is a pile of concrete...  It matches any type of rubble consisting of reinforced concrete...  It could be London, could be the Citadel or who knows what.  Since Shepand was last scene on the Citadel...  I'm going to assume it's the Citadel.

There's a difference between a conventional explosion and a supernova.  A conventional explosion someone could survive.  A supernova there's absolutely no chance of surviving.  That would be a true blantant plothole that no writer would overlook if they did supernova.

This supernova thing is made up because of outrage.  There is no visual evidence ingame of it.  There's only a codex entry about conventional means of destroying a relay based off Arrival.  Not the uber technological Crucible doing it.

Edit:

Sypher_KoS wrote...

BW says that they didn't go nova and destroy the galaxy. Fine, you're the writers so what you say happens is cannon.

The problem I have is that they act as if we were out of our minds to assume that the relays blowing up and falling apart would go nova. The only experiance we have with the destruction of a relay was arrival. We were given in fine detail what the destruction of the relay was suppose to do. since we are told by starkid that the relays will be destroyed, followed by an explosion, I don't feel it's lunacy to arrive at that conclusion.

Fans were quick to point out problems with cannon in the book and we did the same with the ending. They should have thought this out more and paid more attention to thier own lore.

This is true, but it's a combination of "assuming the worse" as well to prove its "especially bad" to non believers or those on the fence about the ending.  However, an epilogue of some type would have immunized the endings to the supernova logic.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 01 mai 2012 - 12:08 .

[sistersafetypin]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote.

That's a different issue all together since it's the Crucible and possibly the Citadel blowing up.  It has nothing to do with relay "supernovas."  Shepard alive has to mean he/she survives that explosion somehow and the relays can't possibly supernova for that to happen.  If you want to debate how Shep survives "that," i'm all ears but again, not the point.

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

His surroundings is a pile of concrete...  It matches any type of rubble consisting of reinforced concrete...  It could be London, could be the Citadel or who knows what.  Since Shepand was last scene on the Citadel...  I'm going to assume it's the Citadel.

There's a difference between a conventional explosion and a supernova.  A conventional explosion someone could survive.  A supernova there's absolutely no chance of surviving.  That would be a true blantant plothole that no writer would overlook if they did supernova.

This supernova thing is made up because of outrage.  There is no visual evidence ingame of it.  There's only a codex entry about conventional means of destroying a relay based off Arrival.  Not the uber technological Crucible doing it.

Shepard was in space at the time of the explosion... Supernova or not, without a suit there's no possible way Shep would be able to survive let alone the reentry into Earth's atmosphere

[Balek-Vriege]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote.

That's a different issue all together since it's the Crucible and possibly the Citadel blowing up.  It has nothing to do with relay "supernovas."  Shepard alive has to mean he/she survives that explosion somehow and the relays can't possibly supernova for that to happen.  If you want to debate how Shep survives "that," i'm all ears but again, not the point.

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

His surroundings is a pile of concrete...  It matches any type of rubble consisting of reinforced concrete...  It could be London, could be the Citadel or who knows what.  Since Shepand was last scene on the Citadel...  I'm going to assume it's the Citadel.

There's a difference between a conventional explosion and a supernova.  A conventional explosion someone could survive.  A supernova there's absolutely no chance of surviving.  That would be a true blantant plothole that no writer would overlook if they did supernova.

This supernova thing is made up because of outrage.  There is no visual evidence ingame of it.  There's only a codex entry about conventional means of destroying a relay based off Arrival.  Not the uber technological Crucible doing it.

Shepard was in space at the time of the explosion... Supernova or not, without a suit there's no possible way Shep would be able to survive let alone the reentry into Earth's atmosphere

Actually he wasn't in space.  He/she was on/in the Catalyst's inner sanctum of sorts.  Shepard had no helmet on and was still able to breath.  My guess is there's some "hidden" force around that area.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 01 mai 2012 - 12:06 .

[sistersafetypin]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

His surroundings is a pile of concrete...  It matches any type of rubble consisting of reinforced concrete...  It could be London, could be the Citadel or who knows what.  Since Shepand was last scene on the Citadel...  I'm going to assume it's the Citadel.

There's a difference between a conventional explosion and a supernova.  A conventional explosion someone could survive.  A supernova there's absolutely no chance of surviving.  That would be a true blantant plothole that no writer would overlook if they did supernova.

This supernova thing is made up because of outrage.  There is no visual evidence ingame of it.  There's only a codex entry about conventional means of destroying a relay based off Arrival.  Not the uber technological Crucible doing it.

Shepard was in space at the time of the explosion... Supernova or not, without a suit there's no possible way Shep would be able to survive let alone the reentry into Earth's atmosphere

Actually he wasn't in space.  He/she was on/in the Catalyst's inner sanctum of sorts.  Shepard had no helmet on and was still able to breath.  My guess is there's some "hidden" force around that area.

I meant, the Citedal is in space at the time of the explosion <_<. And I can't really see the Citedal being able to maintain it's environment while breaking apart.

But sure, I know Space Magic when I see it. "Hidden forces" indeed.

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 01 mai 2012 - 12:08 .

[goose2989]

Aaleel wrote...

They can retcon all they want.



But I know what I saw, and I know what everything in the game points to.

I have almost no doubt in my mind that it was meant to be implied that the Relays didn't have their traditional supernova-eqsue explosion, but that is a very important piece of imformation left to be assumed. From what we see in the game itself, the Relays all went to Hell and destroyed more life in the galaxy than the Reapers could with their A game

[spiriticon]

Aaleel wrote...

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

Well Shephard could not have got out of Sol without the Normandy for starts. If he is anywhere in Sol, he'd be obliterated regardless of where he is.

And how does people readily accept a plothole of Shepard and Joker surviving a supernova when it makes more sense to say that supernovas didn't happen at all?

I don't even get it.

Modifié par spiriticon, 01 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[Aaleel]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote.

That's a different issue all together since it's the Crucible and possibly the Citadel blowing up.  It has nothing to do with relay "supernovas."  Shepard alive has to mean he/she survives that explosion somehow and the relays can't possibly supernova for that to happen.  If you want to debate how Shep survives "that," i'm all ears but again, not the point.

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

His surroundings is a pile of concrete...  It matches any type of rubble consisting of reinforced concrete...  It could be London, could be the Citadel or who knows what.  Since Shepand was last scene on the Citadel...  I'm going to assume it's the Citadel.

There's a difference between a conventional explosion and a supernova.  A conventional explosion someone could survive.  A supernova there's absolutely no chance of surviving.  That would be a true blantant plothole that no writer would overlook if they did supernova.

This supernova thing is made up because of outrage.  There is no visual evidence ingame of it.  There's only a codex entry about conventional means of destroying a relay based off Arrival.  Not the uber technological Crucible doing it.

There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.

First you're speculating that the Crucible makes relays explode and release energy in a unique way.  Then saying that's more accurate and trustworthy then established lore actually seen in game and in the codex, ooookay.

Then the uber technological crucible?  Really?   More advanced beings built the relays, WE built the crucible, and in haste at that.  There is nothing anywhere that states that the crucible will blow up and release the energy in a different way than it otherwise would be under any other circumstance.

If I set off a nuclear bomb manually, remotely, kick it, spit on, what have you.  If it explodes one method is not going to cause massive damage and the other minimal in comparison.

This whole idea of sure it exploded and released its energy, but it's how it exploded that makes the difference whether it takes out an entire system or just itself is just nonsense. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 01 mai 2012 - 12:12 .

[sistersafetypin]

spiriticon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

Well Shephard could not have got out of Sol without the Normandy for starts. If he is anywhere in Sol, he'd be obliterated regardless of where he is.

And how does people readily accept a plothole of Shepard and Joker surviving a supernova when it makes more sense to say that supernovas didn't happen at all?

I don't even get it.

It's because it's a plot hole either way. However, at least with the relays going supernova it's a plot hole with basis in fact. Either way the Normandy is running from the fight

[spiriticon]

sistersafetypin wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

Well Shephard could not have got out of Sol without the Normandy for starts. If he is anywhere in Sol, he'd be obliterated regardless of where he is.

And how does people readily accept a plothole of Shepard and Joker surviving a supernova when it makes more sense to say that supernovas didn't happen at all?

I don't even get it.

It's because it's a plot hole either way. However, at least with the relays going supernova it's a plot hole with basis in fact. Either way the Normandy is running from the fight

As much as Arrival is fact, Shepard and Joker surviving at the end is also fact. They are both based in fact, and again I stress, a writer has hinted as to which one actually is the one that happened.

[Funkdrspot]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Lol at people who still reference the codex as proof that the EM release at th end is the same as arrival.

Since the codex is a collection of KNOWN knowledge, how would It be updated for something unknown? How many times has someone witnessed the crucible being used to where someone could update the codex?! How would you guys suggest the codex be updated wih unknown info?

Simply put the codex is there as a reference for the story and it is always open to being updated.

Really, you going to go with that excuse?

lol i never knew a valid explanation was considered an excuse. only a zealot would think in that manner. the codex has done this mutliple times with the citadel, the protheans, soverign, the reapers, etc. it gives you the info that is believed to be correct at the time. 

[Sypher_KoS]

Balek-Vriege wrote...



This is true, but it's a combination of "assuming the worse" as well to prove its "especially bad" to non believers or those on the fense about the ending.  However, an epilogue of some type would have immunized the endings to the supernova logic.

Assuming the worst only comes from there not being much silver lining to this ending and little information as far as narrative.  Unless you got the one ending where you get to see Shepard breath for half a second, he/she is dead and there is no reason to not think the relays did go nova.  An addition animation of the energy wave hitting something like a planet and not doing anything harmful would have consumed all of five seconds and made any argument moot.

Its the same for people concerned about everyone starving to death in the Sol system.  BW can say that they used the dead reapers to make new mass relays and everything is fine.  But they don't say this.  They offered us nothing and all we had to go on was the codex information from the previous games.  They wanted speculation and when we speculate we are told that we were speculating wrong. 

Will the extended cut fix this?  Yes, in the same way putting cardboard over a broken window will "fix" the window.  There are too many plotholes, large and small, in the current ending.  The fact they have to release an entire dlc package that will take a few months to do, means that they fail in thier initial attempt at storytelling.

[Balek-Vriege]

Aaleel wrote...


There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.

First you're speculating that the Crucible makes relays explode and release energy in a unique way.  Then saying that's more accurate and trustworthy then established lore actually seen in game and in the codex, ooookay.

Then the uber technological crucible?  Really?   More advanced beings built the relays, WE built the crucible, and in haste at that.  There is nothing anywhere that states that the crucible will blow up and release the energy in a different way than it otherwise would be under any other circumstance.

If I set off a nuclear bomb manually, remotely, kick it, spit on, what have you.  If it explodes one method is not going to cause massive damage and the other minimal in comparison.

This whole idea of sure it exploded and released its energy, but it's how it exploded that makes the difference whether it takes out an entire system or just itself is just nonsense. 

First of all, we know that the Crucible uses energy in a unique way.  How else do you explain waves of energy reprogramming, destroying or completely changing every lifeform in the Galaxy into transorganic or transynthetic lifeforms?  That isn't conventional.

Secondly we see the same exact Crucible process repeated, in cinematics, with each relay.  The relay does something, overloads then sends out a wave of Galactic changing energy.

Thirdly we see what happens with out own eyes.  What actually happens in game takes precedent over the Codex.  The Arrival based codex ending and a non relay supernova ending are not mutally exclusive.  If so, prove that the Crucible using the relays to create abnormal, technologically advanced "energy" is the same thing as ramming an asteroid into one.

Fourthly, the Crucible is said to have been built by countless races or an unknown amount of time.  We also know the Reapers have been pretty stagnant save for numbers and their husk creations.  Reapers have been reaping the Galaxy for thirty seven million years.  If the Crucible was even that old it would have the input of hundreds of civilizations from ones like ours to those more advanced, like the Protheans.  It's very possible the Reapers got out teched by the Crucible.

Not sure about the nuclear weapon point.  On one hand if we are to believe movies there's self destruct mechanisms for nukes and they don't result in massive nuclear explosions.  On the other hand in real life a self destruct mechanism may do this.  I don't know.

What I do know is that the Galacticv energy wave would take A LOT of energy to produce and maybe more than the Galaxy has naturally.  It's obvious the relays, like the Crucible, are being used to create that energy.  It's very possible that most of the energy is converted to "crucible wave" energy, minimizing the amount of energy released in a destructive form, thus a supernova.

I don't really see the "so many problems" with the above.

Edit:

Sypher_KoS wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...



This is true, but it's a combination of "assuming the worse" as well to prove its "especially bad" to non believers or those on the fense about the ending. However, an epilogue of some type would have immunized the endings to the supernova logic.

Assuming the worst only comes from there not being much silver lining to this ending and little information as far as narrative. Unless you got the one ending where you get to see Shepard breath for half a second, he/she is dead and there is no reason to not think the relays did go nova. An addition animation of the energy wave hitting something like a planet and not doing anything harmful would have consumed all of five seconds and made any argument moot.

Its the same for people concerned about everyone starving to death in the Sol system. BW can say that they used the dead reapers to make new mass relays and everything is fine. But they don't say this. They offered us nothing and all we had to go on was the codex information from the previous games. They wanted speculation and when we speculate we are told that we were speculating wrong.

Will the extended cut fix this? Yes, in the same way putting cardboard over a broken window will "fix" the window. There are too many plotholes, large and small, in the current ending. The fact they have to release an entire dlc package that will take a few months to do, means that they fail in thier initial attempt at storytelling.

We do see the energy ball hit a planet - Earth.  Whatever happens there based on EMS is what happens to every other planet in the Galaxy.  Why?  Because the Crucible energy ball is identical to the relay energy balls.  Also Synthesis shows clearly how the relay energy hits planets.  So it's entirely possible with a bad destruction ending to get "homeworld wastleands" because the Crucible energy wasn't tuned correctly.

Actually a Dev has talked about the endings and has pretty much confirmed the relays don't supernova and that FTL still opens any possibilities, but that's another issue which happens to get overblown.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 01 mai 2012 - 12:35 .

[ryuasiu]

spiriticon wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

I read the title of this post and laughed hard for a good 2-3 min. I just recently got my breath back

No, as others have posted, with pictures, they blew up. we see parts flying. this is the same thing we see in Arrival.

I saw parts flying sure. But I didn't see a supernova explosion destroying everything in the universe. Did you?

Thanks for another great laugh.

-The waves were destructive, thats why the nomandy does damaged and goes down
-That destructive wave can be seen in an external shot of the galaxy with the waves spreading out over the systems. So yes, I did see supernova's destroying the systems they were in.
-Even if the waves were not supernova as stated before they were destructive. Millions of ships would be destroyed just like the normandy
- The Major part of Arrival was to show and establish what would happen when the Relays were destroyed. Answer is supernova. Once again they showed the explosions were destructive with the normandy going down

[nitefyre410]

And so Bioware began would be known in gaming history as the Great Handwave..

[NS Wizdum]

Funkdrspot wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Lol at people who still reference the codex as proof that the EM release at th end is the same as arrival.

Since the codex is a collection of KNOWN knowledge, how would It be updated for something unknown? How many times has someone witnessed the crucible being used to where someone could update the codex?! How would you guys suggest the codex be updated wih unknown info?

Simply put the codex is there as a reference for the story and it is always open to being updated.

Really, you going to go with that excuse?

lol i never knew a valid explanation was considered an excuse. only a zealot would think in that manner. the codex has done this mutliple times with the citadel, the protheans, soverign, the reapers, etc. it gives you the info that is believed to be correct at the time. 

You're going to ignore the codex because it may be wrong, and believe......what? The only evidence we have about what happens to a relay when it shuts down is Arrival and the Codex. You don't see any problems with ignoring the only source of evidence we have?

[ryuasiu]

spiriticon wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

Well Shephard could not have got out of Sol without the Normandy for starts. If he is anywhere in Sol, he'd be obliterated regardless of where he is.

And how does people readily accept a plothole of Shepard and Joker surviving a supernova when it makes more sense to say that supernovas didn't happen at all?

I don't even get it.

It's because it's a plot hole either way. However, at least with the relays going supernova it's a plot hole with basis in fact. Either way the Normandy is running from the fight

As much as Arrival is fact, Shepard and Joker surviving at the end is also fact. They are both based in fact, and again I stress, a writer has hinted as to which one actually is the one that happened.

yeah, that 'interview' that was not recorded and Wekes later said he was paraphrased and things came out wrong, and had clear alot of things up. Also funny how he would not comfirm anything about the relays going supernova or not

[Balek-Vriege]

ryuasiu wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

I read the title of this post and laughed hard for a good 2-3 min. I just recently got my breath back

No, as others have posted, with pictures, they blew up. we see parts flying. this is the same thing we see in Arrival.

I saw parts flying sure. But I didn't see a supernova explosion destroying everything in the universe. Did you?

Thanks for another great laugh.

-The waves were destructive, thats why the nomandy does damaged and goes down
-That destructive wave can be seen in an external shot of the galaxy with the waves spreading out over the systems. So yes, I did see supernova's destroying the systems they were in.
-Even if the waves were not supernova as stated before they were destructive. Millions of ships would be destroyed just like the normandy
- The Major part of Arrival was to show and establish what would happen when the Relays were destroyed. Answer is supernova. Once again they showed the explosions were destructive with the normandy going down

Not sure why you're laughing...

-The "destructive wave" is the energy being funneled through from relay to relay in a more condensed form.  Even so, it damaged the Normandy and didn't vapourize it on contact.  So could it be a supernova?
-You saw the Galactic energy waves of the crucible not a supernova.  If those were supernovas they wouldn't fit with previous lore anyways for the opposite reason.  The Galaxy would have ceased to exist because of a Galactic Nova.  Supernova's are restricted to local area around a system.  The only things that travel super long distances I think are magnetar pulses etc.
-Again the Normandy was in transit through a relay, getting stuck behind the chatoic beam of energy, not the waves.
-If your above points were ture, Arrival wouldn't explain them.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 01 mai 2012 - 12:41 .

[sistersafetypin]

spiriticon wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No it's not different.  If Shepard can survive that obvious death sentence through a plothole, he can leap through the same one to survive a supernova.  Hell we don't even know where Shepard is when he/she wakes up since the surroundings match neither Earth or where you were when you made your decision, if we want to just make stuff up.

Well Shephard could not have got out of Sol without the Normandy for starts. If he is anywhere in Sol, he'd be obliterated regardless of where he is.

And how does people readily accept a plothole of Shepard and Joker surviving a supernova when it makes more sense to say that supernovas didn't happen at all?

I don't even get it.

It's because it's a plot hole either way. However, at least with the relays going supernova it's a plot hole with basis in fact. Either way the Normandy is running from the fight

As much as Arrival is fact, Shepard and Joker surviving at the end is also fact. They are both based in fact, and again I stress, a writer has hinted as to which one actually is the one that happened.

Wait what? Arrival is so important to the end of the story it happens whether you play or not. As for Shepard and Joker surviving... Well Shepard's survival is a plothole in my opinion and Joker simply is. I don't see how either pertain to the fact that the Relays supernova.

[spiriticon]

ryuasiu wrote...

Thanks for another great laugh.

-The waves were destructive, thats why the nomandy does damaged and goes down
-That destructive wave can be seen in an external shot of the galaxy with the waves spreading out over the systems. So yes, I did see supernova's destroying the systems they were in.
-Even if the waves were not supernova as stated before they were destructive. Millions of ships would be destroyed just like the normandy
- The Major part of Arrival was to show and establish what would happen when the Relays were destroyed. Answer is supernova. Once again they showed the explosions were destructive with the normandy going down

Explain why the soldiers and Reapers on Earth were not killed by said destructive wave. In fact. It looked like the wave just passed right through them. Even had the energy to raise their guns and cheer when the reapers fell!

[Aaleel]

Balek-Vriege wrote...


First of all, we know that the Crucible uses energy in a unique way.  How else do you explain waves of energy reprogramming, destroying or completely changing every lifeform in the Galaxy into transorganic or transynthetic lifeforms?  That isn't conventional.

Secondly we see the same exact Crucible process repeated, in cinematics, with each relay.  The relay does something, overloads then sends out a wave of Galactic changing energy.

Thirdly we see what happens with out own eyes.  What actually happens in game takes precedent over the Codex.  The Arrival based codex ending and a non relay supernova ending are not mutally exclusive.  If so, prove that the Crucible using the relays to create abnormal, technologically advanced "energy" is the same thing as ramming an asteroid into one.

Fourthly, the Crucible is said to have been built by countless races or an unknown amount of time.  We also know the Reapers have been pretty stagnant save for numbers and their husk creations.  Reapers have been reaping the Galaxy for thirty seven million years.  If the Crucible was even that old it would have the input of hundreds of civilizations from ones like ours to those more advanced, like the Protheans.  It's very possible the Reapers got out teched by the Crucible.

Not sure about the nuclear weapon point.  On one hand if we are to believe movies there's self destruct mechanisms for nukes and they don't result in massive nuclear explosions.  On the other hand in real life a self destruct mechanism may do this.  I don't know.

What I do know is that the Galacticv energy wave would take A LOT of energy to produce and maybe more than the Galaxy has naturally.  It's obvious the relays, like the Crucible, are being used to create that energy.  It's very possible that most of the energy is converted to "crucible wave" energy, minimizing the amount of energy released in a destructive form, thus a supernova.

I don't really see the "so many problems" with the above.

The plans had different cycles adding to it.  They all tried to build it, but never got to use it.  There WAS NOT a partially built Crucible lying around anywhere anywhere, it was built from scratch in haste by the current cycle.

I see what happens with my own eyes.  Two separate codexes say the release of energy causes a supernova.  A relay explodes and we see a supernova.  What is said would happen, happens.  I watched a galaxy view of shockwaves spreading out from the explosion at the end of ME3 just like I watched a view of a shockwave spreading out on the galaxy map in arrival as it destroyed the Batarian system.

I saw a relay break into pieces and explode in both games.

Also I don't have to prove that there's a difference between an asteroid hitting a relay and a beam.  The given lore states that if a relay explodes in goes supernova.  The only example we have the relay goes nova.  It's up to you to find something it game that states that a relay will release energy contrary to the codex and what we've seen based on what hits it (Good luck).

You say the crucible energy is different but you don't how.  You say what hits a relay and how determines how it explodes but you can't say why it's different.  You're just speculating, and saying what has happened isn't the same because you say so.

[spiriticon]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Wait what? Arrival is so important to the end of the story it happens whether you play or not. As for Shepard and Joker surviving... Well Shepard's survival is a plothole in my opinion and Joker simply is. I don't see how either pertain to the fact that the Relays supernova.

Joker simply is? If he is, then said supernova doesn't destroy everything in the star system. If it doesn't destroy everything in the star system then the codex is not completely true.

If the codex is not completely true, then the relays don't have to go supernova because of arrival.

It has a massive implication.

Modifié par spiriticon, 01 mai 2012 - 12:46 .

[alienatedflea]

Well no one has ever seen a damaged mass relay?...so we dont know if they are destroyed or damaged? Either way, I think that even damaging the mass relays would be catastrophic

[Aaleel]

spiriticon wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

Thanks for another great laugh.

-The waves were destructive, thats why the nomandy does damaged and goes down
-That destructive wave can be seen in an external shot of the galaxy with the waves spreading out over the systems. So yes, I did see supernova's destroying the systems they were in.
-Even if the waves were not supernova as stated before they were destructive. Millions of ships would be destroyed just like the normandy
- The Major part of Arrival was to show and establish what would happen when the Relays were destroyed. Answer is supernova. Once again they showed the explosions were destructive with the normandy going down

Explain why the soldiers and Reapers on Earth were not killed by said destructive wave. In fact. It looked like the wave just passed right through them. Even had the energy to raise their guns and cheer when the reapers fell!

Check the timeline again.  The Crucible releases energy and it passes over the earth and does whatever it does to the reapers.

AND THEN...the beam is fired and the citadel explodes starting the chain.  We're talking about a wave of energy which did not come from an explosion, and then the explosion occurs.  They were two separate events and there were no pictures on people celebrating after the citadel fired the first beam and started to explode.

[Funkdrspot]

Aaleel, detonating a nuke in the wrong way actually WILL cause a different result. Lots of reactions use different CATALYSTS to achieve completely different results