410 réponses à ce sujet

[Pallid]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
If you genuinely feel that the writers were just trying to forcibly put Tali and Garrus into a relationship for no real good reason, then we're at a bit of an impasse.

Here is the reason from Weekes himself: "What if there was flirtation under that ME2 citadel banter" - is this a real good reason? I don't know... 

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

There are no characters that Shepard can have zero interest in for the first 2 1/2 games, and then suddenly have a romance with in the final 1/2 of the final game.  That's the whole problem with it.  You have 2 1/2 games where Tali and Garrus express no interest in each other.  Then, magically they're "a thing" right at the end.

I just keep tripping up on why this is an issue.  Is the idea that they grow into an attraction something that unfathomable?  It's certainly something that happens a lot in real life.

They are both characters that have grown a lot since ME2 and I guess I don't see it as being something that "suddenly jumps out."  Especially since, from a male Shepard perspective, Tali had a crush on Shepard and has since then moved on (good for her).

It definitely seems like fan service, especially when the issue is forced with lines like.

Garrus: "How about you? You ever mind serving on an all-human ship?"

Tali: "It's not ALL human...as long as YOU'RE here."

Ummm, Liara, Javik, and EDI, anyone??

What this tells me is that the writers were looking for something, anything, to force Tali and Garrus into some quick bonding/flirting.  Oh I know, let's have them bond over being the only aliens on an all human ship!  They'll naturally get together in that case!  Okay, except for the fact that they aren't the only aliens on the ship.

If you genuinely feel that the writers were just trying to forcibly put Tali and Garrus into a relationship for no real good reason, then we're at a bit of an impasse.  I have no issues with the sequence and have seen situations like that happen in real life (between some of my own friends actually).  /shrug

The mere fact that you stumble upon them and they're embarrassed gives an indication that they weren't exactly being upfront with the rest of the crew on their feelings, and it likely slowly developed.  I'm sure a big part of what Tali appreciated was Garrus manning up and apologizing for his crass statements before.  Nevermind that the game follows Shepard so the idea that the crew may interact amongst themselves when Shepard isn't around also isn't far fetched.

The general idea of them growing into an attraction is not unfathomable, if it's supported or enabled by the plot.  As told, however, there simply is no growth in their relationship to justify a sudden romantic interest between the two.  In ME2, they do not interact whatsoever, save for an Easter Egg.

Then along comes ME3.  Do we hear Garrus at any point asking about Tali in the first half of the game? No.  In fact, the first "romantic" encounter between the two happens halfway through the game during Geth Dreadnought.  All of a sudden, with her people on the edge of destruction, Tali comes to the realization that, you know what, perhaps Garrus and I should get together.  My people and their stupid little total war can wait while we flirt about a box of chocolates. 

Do you honestly think this is appropriate, quality writing?

As far as "things like this happen in real life," maybe they do.  But this isn't real life.  It's a story.  And a solid, consistent story requires...consistency.

[Dantexr3]

I think I'm going to make Garrus die in my next playthrough. I'm sorry bro, but Tali is mine.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Dantexr3 wrote...

I think I'm going to make Garrus die in my next playthrough. I'm sorry bro, but Tali is mine.

But Garrus doesn't try anything if you're romancing Tali. Plus, then you'll miss out on the great conversation they have in the main battery at the end where they bet on who's going to get more kills on Earth.

Actually, that's probably a good reason for not wanting the Garrus/Tali romance to be in the game; their "friend" dialogue for that pre-Earth conversation is much better, and a lot of people are sadly missing out on it.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Do we hear Garrus at any point asking about Tali in the first half of the game? No.

Speaking of which, we could have used Shepard asking about Tali (or any other LI, for that matter) in the early parts of the game. It was weird how it wasn't even brought up. At least ME2 had that short conversation with TIM where he explains what your old crew is up to and why they can't join you.

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 30 avril 2012 - 08:01 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I wish there was, I hate that people are becoming anti-Garrus/Tali because of this stupid scene.

For me it just doesn't work, and I'm not saying that because I romance Garrus. Garrus/Tali just lacked chemistry, IMO. They've always felt like siblings, so seeing them randomly making out makes me scratch my head and feel vaguely weird. I loved Tali/Kal'Reegar and I could see Garrus with a number of other NPCs, it's not about that. Love Tali, love Garrus, but together they just don't work.

It's like the only reason they got together was because of their DNA, which is a silly, shallow excuse. Someone likened it to saying two people have to get together because they're both lactose intolerant, I think that's a good example. To me though, it most reminds me of Mickey and Martha from Doctor Who. During the final epilogues for all of Ten's companions, they said at the last second that Mickey/Martha were married, because they couldn't figure out anything better to do with them, in spite of the pair having nothing in common and never being interested in each other before. The reaction wasn't, "Aww, that's cute!" It was, "Wait, what? Why?"

Garrus and Tali have no common ground aside from Shepard and dextro acids. What's worse is that their VOs who can pretty much have chemistry with anyone sounded forced in that scene.

I also agree that their friend dialogue is infinitely better than the romance one, that was one of my favorites in the game. THAT was the perfect example of their relationship, to me.

omskman wrote...

Here is the reason from Weekes himself: "What if there was flirtation under that ME2 citadel banter" - is this a real good reason? I don't know... 

Tali didn't even sound friendly in that banter, much less flirty. I remember getting that banter the first time and thinking, "Oh no, they're my only pair from ME1 and this is the only squad interaction I've gotten so far, what if they don't even like being around each other?"

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 30 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[Pallid]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Tali didn't even sound friendly in that banter, much less flirty.

Exactly! And yes, there was a lot more tension between Tali and Kal'Reegar.

[JEPrDEE]

I was stoked for my bro

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

omskman wrote...

Here is the reason from Weekes himself: "What if there was flirtation under that ME2 citadel banter" - is this a real good reason? I don't know... 

Tali didn't even sound friendly in that banter, much less flirty. I remember getting that banter the first time and thinking, "Oh no, they're my only pair from ME1 and this is the only squad interaction I've gotten so far, what if they don't even like being around each other?"

The other thing is that it's in the friend version of the main battery conversation, not the romance one, in which that particular conversation is referenced, with Tali saying "I still have the shotgun".

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 30 avril 2012 - 08:32 .

[Unholyknight800]

Actually like Joker/EDI, you should've played matchmaker as long it made sense.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Oh, and another thing I forgot to mention. When Garrus said something to the effect of 'something to come back to', it made it feel even less like an actual romance. It felt like he was settling for Tali because he was lonely. That just made me sad for the both of them, they deserve better.

[Unholyknight800]

Interesting viewpoints.

[OMEGAlomaniac]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Well aren't you guys a couple of dicks.

[Pride Demon]

omskman wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Tali didn't even sound friendly in that banter, much less flirty.

Exactly! And yes, there was a lot more tension between Tali and Kal'Reegar.

I kind of agree, then again there's little that can be done about it now, it's not exactly a game breaking issue...
I too feel it's a bit out of the blue, but whatever, other issues are more important in my opinion...

[Zing Freelancer]

Leave Garrus alone! *sob sob*, he is my bro. *sob*

So what if Garrus and Tali become an "item", and it makes no sense? Not like they got much time together before Shepard does his selfish thing, that makes even less sense.

[coomber]

I thought Tali/Garrus getting together was excellent. It was one of the few moments where I got a genuine emotional reaction because Tali had been my ME2 LI, but I went with Liara in ME3.

Taking Tali with you as a squad member after 'dumping' her leads to some interesting conversations during missions as she struggles to deal with rejection. But I never expected *I* would be the one feeling jealous because I walked in on a fictional alien creature getting it on with another towards the end! Kudos to Bioware for making me do that.

[Nenya Higurashi]

Optimystic_X wrote...
Liara + Javik > all

If any asari deserves to have a Prothean daughter, it's her!

YES! I totally agree! *-*

Anyway, I'm surprised by... well, the whole thread. And to be honest, I've been both speechless at some points and lol'd in others.
Seriously, I found great when I realized they were a couple and I honestly waited the whole game hoping to see more relationships around the normandy. I just can't imagine a valid reason to hate so much them as a couple °-°
Aaand- sorry about the poor english.

Modifié par Nenya Higurashi, 30 avril 2012 - 09:47 .

[Tectonium]

Jat371 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Well aren't you guys a couple of dicks.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Zing Freelancer wrote...

Leave Garrus alone! *sob sob*, he is my bro. *sob*

So what if Garrus and Tali become an "item", and it makes no sense? Not like they got much time together before Shepard does his selfish thing, that makes even less sense.

Out of curiosity, were you a writer or tester for ME3?

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 30 avril 2012 - 09:54 .

[thefallen2far]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
If you genuinely feel that the writers were just trying to forcibly put Tali and Garrus into a relationship for no real good reason, then we're at a bit of an impasse.  I have no issues with the sequence and have seen situations like that happen in real life (between some of my own friends actually).  /shrug

The mere fact that you stumble upon them and they're embarrassed gives an indication that they weren't exactly being upfront with the rest of the crew on their feelings, and it likely slowly developed.  I'm sure a big part of what Tali appreciated was Garrus manning up and apologizing for his crass statements before.  Nevermind that the game follows Shepard so the idea that the crew may interact amongst themselves when Shepard isn't around also isn't far fetched.

Try to imagine it in this context: a friend of yours tried going out with this girl, and it was hard to be in the relationship because she sad she had a medical condition. Then you see her with another dude and that medical problem in no way an issue. Or conversely, with Garrus, you're in an inter racial relationship with someone, and they're having a hard time because of the "race" thing... and then you see a yearbook photo of him making out with somone of another race... if you think about it, it might be weird, so just try to ignore it.

Again, it could be cool for some people, and I think they added it because fans were asking for it. I felt it was out of place. The more I think of it, the more I would've liked the pairing of Kaiden and Tali or Garrus and Ashley depending on who lived on Vermire. Kaiden and Tali are already pretty close an seemed to hit it off on a biotic/techy intellectual level which makes more sense then "I just want him for his body" [yeah, I know it's a flirty joke, but c'mon.... lame]. Ashley and Garrus are actual opposits attract in which their issues are kind of the same. Interspecies is still kind of an issue with them and they're both the field ops characters. Plus it's more of an unlockable in a situation more than, "if you don't sleep with either of them, they'll do it themselves."

[Aggie Punbot]

Okay, the title change kind of annoys me. If the OP doesn't want to discuss this anymore, fine. But other people are having civil and rational discussions about this topic and I wouldn't mind seeing it continue.

[ItsNotMyProblem]

I never had to worry about Tali going for Garrus? Know why? I know how to satisfy my woman.

[Unholyknight800]

ItsNotMyProblem wrote...

I never had to worry about Tali going for Garrus? Know why? I know how to satisfy my woman.

Haha.

[humes spork]

Well, thank god there's a 100% Guaranteed Surefire Way to Make Sure Garrus and Tali Never, Ever Hook Up, and this is how.

ME1:
Refuse to allow Garrus on the team.

ME2:
Romance Tali.
Kill off Garrus in the suicide mission.

ME3:
Side with geth on Rannoch.
Enjoy Tali's return from the grave to bang you and die again, before Cerberus HQ.

[Unholyknight800]

I find it amazing that Shep is such a sex guru that even Tali comes back from the dead for one last night.

[sammysoso]

Geez people, sometimes things happen when Shepard isn't around to dictate it. That's one of the best things about Mass Effect, the world is filled with well defined characters who do their own thing.

When you catch them they try and cover it up, meaning they were hiding it. Shepard wasn't even supposed to know.