51 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkSpiral]

Deception_2112 wrote...

Because you're obviously strong enough to fight it off?

Not so.  Uldred was a much more powerful and experienced mage than your lvl 7-10 (the level most players are when the hit the tower)  chararacter, yet he couldn't fight it off once they ganged up on him.

That and spellcasting isn't what makes it easy for you to become possessed.

*blinks*
Wait, what?  You quote "lore" as being the reason mages should be gods, and then completely ignore the lore that states outright that mages run a much, much, higher chance of being possesed?  They can be possesed WHILE ASLEEP, for crying outloud.  They're aware of themselves while dreaming in the Fade, that's what attracts a demon in the first place.  For a demon to posses anything that ISN'T a mage, the Veil has to have been already torn, so that htey can come to the physcial world in the first place!  You have just completely invalidated yourself.  Spellcasting is exactly why mages are hot targets for possesion.

Bioware nerfing doesn't cater to everyone, infact you guys might or might not be the majority, but seeing as how we aren't required to patch, the people who prefer mages the way they are, are happy to stay content.

This...is actually quite true.  My only issue is that the nerfs that may or may not occur will probably be rolled up in the same package that fix genunine bugs, which makes the choice of patching or not patching a bit more complex.

[Seclus]

actually Marionetten If threat genrated decresed over time forcefield on tank would cause your tank to lose threat there force going after a mage or other character improving the AI. If only taunt DID have a duration vs just create extra high threat perm. I quite like your Idea.

[ejikvkaske]

Crushing Prison needed a nerf, althought perhaps not such a drastic one. Prior to the patch my Morrigan killed regular enemy mages with a single Crushing Prison spell, no additional damage. That's overpowered. CoC and Forcefield were also overpowered. Hell, why don't you complain that now your Shimmering Shield will actually go down from time to time?



Anyway, what makes you think that Bioware caved into community pressure? Maybe the gameplay did not turn out as they intended, and they're trying to amend that.

[Marionetten]

ejikvkaske wrote...

Crushing Prison needed a nerf, althought perhaps not such a drastic one. Prior to the patch my Morrigan killed regular enemy mages with a single Crushing Prison spell, no additional damage. That's overpowered. CoC and Forcefield were also overpowered.

I'm not saying it was fine in its original incarnation. They just went overboard and rendered it a complete waste of a spell. This is not balancing. It's unbalancing things further. I don't know about you but I think we have enough of useless abilities as is. I'd rather see these abilities fixed before they start nerfing the crap out of everything else.

ejikvkaske wrote...

Hell, why don't you complain that now your Shimmering Shield will actually go down from time to time?

Believe it or not, but not every mage is an arcane warrior.

That said, I'm all for fixing glitches and shimmering shield wasn't nerfed. It was fixed.

[Faerell Gustani]

Marionetten wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...

How is Taunt overpowered?  A tank that gets swarmed is still going to go down.
The problem is Taunt + Forcefield.

Taunt is a problem since it makes everything go after a single heavily armored target which can easily heal by endlessly quaffing potions. Force field makes the issue even more apparant as monsters will continue hitting this invincible opponent out of sheer stupidity.

Taunt is the most effective crowd control ability in the whole damn game regardless of difficulty. How is that not an issue? Oh, because it's a warrior ability and we can't have warriors being nerfed as that would go against your personal agenda. Balance be damned.

Faerell Gustani wrote...

And that's not necessarily a problem with the game mechanics, it's a problem with the AI.  In other threads I've stated my opinion on this, and I'm fairly certain that they're working on a fix to this as well.  AI fixes are more complicated than changing 2 variables on a spell.
Cone of Cold?  Just change the cooldown to be longer than the freeze duration and that gets rid of the problem.

The AI will require many lines of code to implement an aggro suppression solution since I doubt they want a simple aggro wipe.

It could be alleviated by simple lowering the duration, the range or both. Complicated, isn't it?

In regards to force field, it should drop all aggro.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points, however the point is being made as we discuss.
Taunt isn't necessarily broken.  It's Taunt+something else.

Be it potion chugging or forcefield.  Game Designers will have to figure out what is the root cause of the problem, then implement a fix.

However, Cone of Cold was a pretty clear cut "spam this one ability".  By itself it was broken powerful.  It alone neutralized a group of enemies and damaged them.

Taunt requires a combination with other abilities.  It alone does not destroy the opponent.

[Marionetten]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

Taunt requires a combination with other abilities. It alone does not destroy the opponent.

It completely destroys their ability to endanger weaker targets. I never claimed that it destroyed whole legions of enemies by itself. I claimed that it was the best form of crowd control in the game capable of stupefying whole legions by itself. If you find no issue with this then that is you prerogative though it hardly matches your earlier statement of desiring a more challenging game.

Modifié par Marionetten, 13 décembre 2009 - 09:28 .

[Alistair Crowley]

The funny part is that if the game had been originally released with those spells as they are "nerfed" now, nobody would have complained.



Now, the originally released spells seem to have gotten some kind of "canon" status.

[Faerell Gustani]

Marionetten wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...

Taunt requires a combination with other abilities. It alone does not destroy the opponent.

It completely destroys their ability to endanger weaker targets. I never claimed that it destroyed whole legions of enemies by itself. I claimed that it was the best form of crowd control in the game capable of stupefying whole legions by itself. If you find no issue with this then that is you prerogative though it hardly meshes with your earlier statement of desiring a more challenging game.

I'll be honest, I actually haven't used Taunt.   I stick with threaten and CC anything that gets too close to my squishies.  Fights are usually over by then.

And again, tanks will die if they get swarmed.  I would really rather they removed taunt and had an improved AI.  Taunt is a problem with the Threat/Aggro system of AI.  A superior AI is going to be needed for challenge to actually advance.

[Seclus]

Speaking of taunt. It would be nice if taunt had a mental resist check. Then give bonus to mental resistance for the check based on number of enemy leaders in the area. so taunt has a chance of failing against enemies. Really i think thats the over site on taunt its garunted to work with out a chance of failing. Or am i wrong I just never seem to see it fail to work. Another possibility would be to onely be able to taunt X amount of targets ot targets per level based of Proxy to warrior using it. closest targets are effected till max is reached.



I still think the 1.02 changes are not undermining the mage class as a whole. Its a bit more of a challange to lock-down a specific target but its still not impossible.

[Faerell Gustani]

I would definitely agree with a mental resistance versus taunt.

[DarkSpiral]

I didn't really have a problem with Taunt. It functions more or less like every threat-stealing ability that's ever been made since the entire dynamic of threat came into mainstream. I don't think it's realistic at all, of course, but the genre is what it has become.



A mental resistance check sounds like a good idea though.

[deathwing200]

Darpaek wrote...

Agreed. My vanilla game 1.0 worked just fine. And I enjoyed the gameplay a lot more. Unless their patches start fixing actual bugs (like the memory leak), whenever I reinstall DA:O a year or two down the road, I'll have to remember to leave it unpatched.

You enjoyed the dagger bug? Cool story, bro.

[soteria]

Marionetten wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...

Taunt requires a combination with other abilities. It alone does not destroy the opponent.

It completely destroys their ability to endanger weaker targets. I never claimed that it destroyed whole legions of enemies by itself. I claimed that it was the best form of crowd control in the game capable of stupefying whole legions by itself. If you find no issue with this then that is you prerogative though it hardly matches your earlier statement of desiring a more challenging game.

I think the problem with taunt is that it doesn't scale, making it insanely strong at low levels and just about right at higher levels.  You're exaggerating its relative strength greatly, though.  By itself, it is no stronger than any other CC, such as Mass Paralysis, Sleep, Waking Nightmare, or Blizzard.  It's only really strong when you back it up with lots of healing (from some source) or force field.  Your average warrior won't last much longer than the duration of sleep without a heal, if they even last that long.

Taunt only really becomes an effective form of CC if you combine it with several other factors, such as immunity to knockdowns, excellent mitigation, and great healing, or force field.  I would like to see taunt have a weaker effect, but it's a good ability for warriors, and by extension, mages.

The only change that could be considered a significant nerf is crushing prison, and I think they did that more to make emissaries less annoying than to nerf the player.

[Gliese]

Put all healing potions on the same cooldown or have them add a lesser cooldown to other potions when used and increase cooldown time for healing spells.

That would do alot more to increase the challenge than starting to mess around with taunt.

[Koremon]

I just want more then just level 20 I want to max out every thing say level 50 tops for the hardest level

[MR-9]

Keep the nerfs coming. Pretty soon Nightmare might live up to its name.

[DarwinJames]

Cutting right to the chase ... you can have patch 1.02 and no nerfs! Just install this mod.



http://social.biowar...m/project/1243/ this mod works with patch 1.02 and will remove only the nerfs in that patch.



This mod is just three files that you copy to your override directory. On Vista, this is Documents, Bioware, Dragon Age, packages, core, override. Then you will have patch 1.02 without any nerfs. Only works if patch 1.02 is already installed.

[DragoonKain3]

My biggest problem is that their patches have problems themselves. For example, Rally is broken in that it continually adds a cumulative +10 defense every time you enter a new area, while Blizzard AFAIK does NOT refreeze every 2 seconds like its supposed to.



(1.02 Blizz is supposed to be 4 sec freeze, 2 sec unfrozen, 4 sec freeze again, 2 second unfrozen, and so forth until Blizz expires. Right now as far as I can see, its only a 4 second initial freeze, making it worthless compared to other AoEs due to cold being the most resisted element in the game)



Apart from crappy QA (don't put patches that breaks things in the process please), I have no problem them fixing balance. You could always 'unbalance' it with your own mod after all.

[DarwinJames]

Damar, I've played WoW and GW since their retail releases. And many other games along the way. So I know the nerf and buff cycle all too well.

Developers have it backwards. Do not nerf an offline single player game in official patches. Instead, make nerf mods available to those who want them.

But of course, that will not satisfy all the squeaky wheel nerf birds. Many of them are really "global griefers" in disguise who really want nothing more than to make the game harder for other players who have never done them any harm.

[konfeta]

Many of them are really "global griefers" in disguise who really want nothing more than to make the game harder for other players who have never done them any harm.

I hear tinfoil hats are all the rage now.

[Gliese]

How about a mod that lets us use the patch without the fixes that make the game easier?
I'm thinking of these:

During combat, mana or stamina reserves now correctly regenerate more quickly when reserves are low. This allows players to occasionally use an talent or spell in the later stages of lengthy fights.
Certain battles were not scaling properly, resulting in excessively difficult fights. They now scale as intended.

I can haz nerfmod plz?

Modifié par Gliese, 13 décembre 2009 - 07:09 .

[Bomfy]

My belief on this is pretty simple. As for an offline single player game, don't nerf make enemies be able to do something to negate/stop it (I know that a lot more work than a nerf). I will have to add in DarwinJames idea about making a mod.



MMOs and their quest for perfect balance is pointless. Things aren't equal, and why should they be?

[Gliese]

Yeah being almost perfectly balanced does nothing for a multiplayer game, look at Starcraft. I wish one race just dominated the others, that would have made things better.

[MR-9]

Gliese wrote...

How about a mod that lets us use the patch without the fixes that make the game easier?
I'm thinking of these:

During combat, mana or stamina reserves now correctly regenerate more quickly when reserves are low. This allows players to occasionally use an talent or spell in the later stages of lengthy fights.
Certain battles were not scaling properly, resulting in excessively difficult fights. They now scale as intended.

I can haz nerfmod plz?

This mod exists. Search for it. I saw it earlier today in a thread in this very subsection.

[Bibdy]

Oh mah gahd, 5s longer CoC cooldown broke mah game!