258 réponses à ce sujet

[incinerator950]

The Angry One wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Noelemahc wrote...

So how'd the Javelin make you feel then? From what I recall, it's essentially a hand-carried Thanix rifle designed by the Geth to be the most sexy sniper rifle in the game.

Nah, if we talk ridiculous weapons the reaper blackstar wins by far, both the design and explanation nominations.

The Blackstar just screams of "Hey guys look! I made a Reaper gun! Shoehorn it in somehow!"

You mean Shoehorn the Blackstorm Projector into a Reaper gun?

Now we're on the topic of weapons again and other ways to fight the Reapers, what the hell happened to Collector Particle Technology?  Why can't we replicate their Cruisers main weapon, why can't we actually attempt to apply Javik's Particle Rifle technology onto Something lighter.  

Reasons like this were valid enough to give Cerberus the Collector Base, and that still didn't help.

Modifié par incinerator950, 04 mai 2012 - 01:50 .

[Noelemahc]

Nah, the Blackstar was basically a gun-ized version of Harbinger's "push you out of cover so you'll die instantly in the crossfire because you're playing on Insanity" attack. Not surprising at all.

And don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the Javelin, one of the rare cases where aesthetics overruled ergonomics for me - it IS sexy, and even though it's weaker than the Widow and fires as slowly, my SP Infiltrator still abused the heck out of it.

Gee Noel, that doesn't sound like or looked like in all three ME's like futuristic 16th Century.

Crap. That's what I get for not reading the Codex. There HAS to be a better way of performing optional infodumps...

Now we're on the topic of weapons again and other ways to fight the
Reapers, what the hell happened to Collector Particle Technology?  Why
can't we replicate their Cruisers main weapon, why can't we actually
attempt to apply Javik's Particle Rifle technology onto Something
lighter. 

I assumed that the Collector Cruiser was too shmashed-to-bits to be reverse-engineerable, and that Cerberus doesn't share with anyone. And THEY have beam tech, Mass Effect Infiltrator lets you make off with their prototype, which is apparently the best they could manage within the half-year they had to spend on working on Collector salvage.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 04 mai 2012 - 01:59 .

[a.m.p]

Noelemahc wrote...

I assumed that the Collector Cruiser was too shmashed-to-bits to be reverse-engineerable, and that Cerberus doesn't share with anyone. And THEY have beam tech, Mass Effect Infiltrator lets you make off with their prototype, which is apparently the best they could manage within the half-year they had to spend on working on Collector salvage.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I was shaking fists at the screen and asking where is my 'give base to council/alliance' option at the end of ME2.

And now in hindsight I'm still shaking fists. If blowing it up wasn't going to matter, we might as well get the choice whom to give it to study.

Modifié par a.m.p, 04 mai 2012 - 02:37 .

[JShepppp]

a.m.p wrote...

JShepppp wrote...

Yeah. I could see that discussion. There'd be an "oh crap" (stronger language) where they'd be like damn we can only do this with a giant off switch and nothing else.

But they could do it with anything else, they had all they needed and tossed it out the airlock!

Let's compare to this episode of Stargate that everyone compares it to (not without reason).
They have an ongoing invasion of machines who want to kill everyone and eat everything it the galaxy. They are vastly outnumbered and technologically inferior to said machines.
They have tech that shoots impulses that kill the machines but only one by one and the machines have been established to be able to adapt to it over time.
There is no established in-universe way to solve that problem. They've tried since I don't remember which season and it only got worse.

So the writers introduce an ancient superweapon that can kill all of them at once if calibrated correctly. Except the characters are fully aware of who, when and why built it, they have some idea of how it works and team up with an enemy who knows how to reconfigure it to kill just the invading machines, as shown by that episode. They know what will happen when those numbers reach the 0.76 margin. Nobody has to be a moron in that episode.
That is what you do when you write an enemy too powerful for your universe to handle.

Meanwhile Mass Effect had half a dozen ways to solve the reaper problem and instead went with a superweapon plot that required everyone to be a moron.

I'm a big Stargate fan and actually I first thought of the Dakara superweapon when I heard of the Crucible because I thought that'd be the only way for it to activate "simultaneously" throughout the galaxy. 

Stargate was heavily built upon the lore of the Ancients. Mass Effect was built upon the lore of the Protheans at first, but we find out that they're not very important in the big realm of things. I was disappointed that we did not learn more about ME's analogue to the Ancients - the builders of the relays, the creators of the Catalyst, etc. It would have been awesome if they had given us an equivalent level of lore. 

[The Angry One]

I'm in awe of Cerberus' selective competence.
The Turians can reverse engineer a thanix cannon from bits of Sovereign, yet Cerberus can't replicate WORKING PARTICLE GUNS?
And here I thought tech salvage and reverse-engineering was Cerberus' thing.

[a.m.p]

And as somebody somewhere noted, there isn't just the collector base there. There is a whole dump full of ancient broken ships of various prior civilizations.
Couldn't we look for those awesome prothean ships that they used to actively fight reapers for decades if not centuries while being cut off from each other? Or some other more advanced prior civilization's ships?

[Noelemahc]

The Turians can reverse engineer a thanix cannon from bits of Sovereign, yet Cerberus can't replicate WORKING PARTICLE GUNS?

Nonono, I wrote, see, I wrote above - they did. Make one. Just one. THE ONE. And Randall Ezno, bless his glowy face (that's him on my avatar, see the glowy face?), he walks out with it. And defects. To the Alliance. To never appear in ME3, so we never learn the gun's fate.

There is a whole dump full of ancient broken ships of various prior civilizations.
Couldn't
we look for those awesome prothean ships that they used to actively
fight reapers for decades if not centuries while being cut off from each
other? Or some other more advanced prior civilization's ships?

Dammit, I keep forgetting about that graveyard.

Sure, some of those ships would be useless of varying kinds, but... resources! Eezo! armour plating designs! Engines! GUNS! Whoever built the Klendagon cannon may have made ships that crossed the Omega-4 relay?

Also, great concept for a horror game spinoff, someone getting lost out there in that graveyard. Richard Morgan, "Broken Angels", a human mind is easily broken by the internal design of a spaceship built by, say, an avian species capable of real flight. Especially if their corpses are still lying around. Hot damn was that book terrifying.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 04 mai 2012 - 02:53 .

[Wulfram]

It's not like the collector's weaponry was especially good, maybe Cerberus just had better things to do with their time.

[a.m.p]

Noelemahc wrote...

The Turians can reverse engineer a thanix cannon from bits of Sovereign, yet Cerberus can't replicate WORKING PARTICLE GUNS?

Nonono, I wrote, see, I wrote above - they did. Make one. Just one. THE ONE. And Randall Ezno, bless his glowy face (that's him on my avatar, see the glowy face?), he walks out with it. And defects. To the Alliance. To never appear in ME3, so we never learn the gun's fate.

Goddamit, Noelemahc. The more I know the worse it gets.

[nitefyre410]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm in awe of Cerberus' selective competence.
The Turians can reverse engineer a thanix cannon from bits of Sovereign, yet Cerberus can't replicate WORKING PARTICLE GUNS?
And here I thought tech salvage and reverse-engineering was Cerberus' thing.

 

Its the organizational Idoit Ball -  Bioware likes to hand it out alot it seems. They do it to goverments ... The Alliance and the Council and they did it to Cerberus so much so that they had "Trololololol  Indoctrination" for it to work with  TIM. 

[The Angry One]

Noelemahc wrote...

Nonono, I wrote, see, I wrote above - they did. Make one. Just one. THE ONE. And Randall Ezno, bless his glowy face (that's him on my avatar, see the glowy face?), he walks out with it. And defects. To the Alliance. To never appear in ME3, so we never learn the gun's fate.

That's even worse. They can distribute plans for the Reaper IFF virtually instantly but this one gun gets lost and they didn't have any backups or designs or anything? Yikes.

[Noelemahc]

Then again, that game was made by an outside company, so we should take its plot with a huge pinch of salt. Cerberus has its own Rancor-type monster (with mounted cannons and kinetic barriers enough to cover a whole frigate) in that game. Also makes very Borg-like robozombies from former researchers. And is assaulted by Geth, just for skits and giggles. And did I mention that the final level takes place on a planet named LV426 yet? Because that's not a joke.

They can distribute plans for the Reaper IFF virtually instantly but
this one gun gets lost and they didn't have any backups or designs or
anything? Yikes.

We never learn what happens of the plans. Just that the guy apparently has the only prototype. We DO see an escaped Krogan prisoner try to use one in a bonus mission (where we get to play as a nameless Turian that Ezno captures in the tutorial level), but it's never elaborated upon. They might have a whole bloody container of the things SOMEWHERE, it's just never revealed whether they made more than one or where the blueprints are stored.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 04 mai 2012 - 03:00 .

[incinerator950]

a.m.p wrote...

Noelemahc wrote...

I assumed that the Collector Cruiser was too shmashed-to-bits to be reverse-engineerable, and that Cerberus doesn't share with anyone. And THEY have beam tech, Mass Effect Infiltrator lets you make off with their prototype, which is apparently the best they could manage within the half-year they had to spend on working on Collector salvage.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I was shaking fists at the screen and asking where is my 'give base to council/alliance' option at the end of ME2.

And now in hindsight I'm still shaking fists. If blowing it up wasn't going to matter, we might as well get the choice whom to give it to study.

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

[incinerator950]

The Angry One wrote...

Noelemahc wrote...

Nonono, I wrote, see, I wrote above - they did. Make one. Just one. THE ONE. And Randall Ezno, bless his glowy face (that's him on my avatar, see the glowy face?), he walks out with it. And defects. To the Alliance. To never appear in ME3, so we never learn the gun's fate.

That's even worse. They can distribute plans for the Reaper IFF virtually instantly but this one gun gets lost and they didn't have any backups or designs or anything? Yikes.

So it was a real Prototype?  Damn.  

[incinerator950]

Wulfram wrote...

It's not like the collector's weaponry was especially good, maybe Cerberus just had better things to do with their time.

It's not like Bioware to remember that the Reapers have less destructive Power then the standard SMBN on a Nuclear Submarine when comparing yield in Tons, or that Energy Weapons bypass Kinetic Barriers.  That everything is a step up from putting every ship in a line and then smashing it into another line. 

However, Cerberus was too busy studying the Reaper tech, and then making a massive slave rig Army of Human cyborgs. 

Modifié par incinerator950, 04 mai 2012 - 03:01 .

[a.m.p]

incinerator950 wrote...

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

It's a spacestation stuffed with proof of reaper existence. In fact that is the first proof of reaper existence in ME2 that we aren't forced to blow up. There are (well, not in ME3) limits to politician stupidity.
And I am friends with the boss of Omega, she's a reasonable purple lady, I am sure we can work out some way that citadel/alliance people can work on studying all that without starting a war with Terminus.

[nitefyre410]

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

It's a spacestation stuffed with proof of reaper existence. In fact that is the first proof of reaper existence in ME2 that we aren't forced to blow up. There are (well, not in ME3) limits to politician stupidity.
And I am friends with the boss of Omega, she's a reasonable purple lady, I am sure we can work out some way that citadel/alliance people can work on studying all that without starting a war with Terminus.

 

This would of course require that Bioware write the Council as resemble competent goverment  in which they craftt a good cover story.  "hey Geth attack"  as means to start a miltary build up while behind the scenes they are doing research into the Reapers.

[incinerator950]

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

It's a spacestation stuffed with proof of reaper existence. In fact that is the first proof of reaper existence in ME2 that we aren't forced to blow up. There are (well, not in ME3) limits to politician stupidity.
And I am friends with the boss of Omega, she's a reasonable purple lady, I am sure we can work out some way that citadel/alliance people can work on studying all that without starting a war with Terminus.

She lost Omega to Cerberus.  

No, there is no limit to political stupidity in ME.  That's why Anderson quit if he was Councilor. 

[a.m.p]

incinerator950 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

It's a spacestation stuffed with proof of reaper existence. In fact that is the first proof of reaper existence in ME2 that we aren't forced to blow up. There are (well, not in ME3) limits to politician stupidity.
And I am friends with the boss of Omega, she's a reasonable purple lady, I am sure we can work out some way that citadel/alliance people can work on studying all that without starting a war with Terminus.

She lost Omega to Cerberus.  

No, there is no limit to political stupidity in ME.  That's why Anderson quit if he was Councilor. 

I was talking about the moment right after the ending of ME2.

[a.m.p]

nitefyre410 wrote...

This would of course require that Bioware write the Council as resemble competent goverment  in which they craftt a good cover story.  "hey Geth attack"  as means to start a miltary build up while behind the scenes they are doing research into the Reapers.

We figured that out on the previous page:

Elyiia wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

I'm telling you. It's a stupification field. The Starchild is the source of it. It explains everything.

My god, the true enemy of Mass Effect:

You just need to get them off the citadel.

Modifié par a.m.p, 04 mai 2012 - 03:14 .

[Noelemahc]

She lost Omega to Cerberus.

Haven't read the entire comic series yet, but from her description in ME3, it seems that Kai Leng's expeditions to Omega in the "real" books weren't the only ones Cerberus was making. The implication being that she wasn't as all-powerful as she looked... or thought she looked.

But that "I'm going to employ violence" line was worth it. Gonna dump the scripts for the Retake Omega quests today from the TLK, see what's already in the game, as this probably won't spoil anything anyway.

This would of course require that Bioware write the Council as
resemble competent goverment  in which they craftt a good cover story.
 "hey Geth attack"  as means to start a miltary build up while behind
the scenes they are doing research into the Reapers.

See, I would'a bought that one if, in ME3, when we bring them the Crucible, they would say "Pshaw, we have one just like that in the garage. It don't work none, only the screensaver pops up and suggests we shoot at random components to activate it. Let's go pillage the Omega-4 graveyard instead" or somesuch.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 04 mai 2012 - 03:15 .

[incinerator950]

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

It's a spacestation stuffed with proof of reaper existence. In fact that is the first proof of reaper existence in ME2 that we aren't forced to blow up. There are (well, not in ME3) limits to politician stupidity.
And I am friends with the boss of Omega, she's a reasonable purple lady, I am sure we can work out some way that citadel/alliance people can work on studying all that without starting a war with Terminus.

She lost Omega to Cerberus.  

No, there is no limit to political stupidity in ME.  That's why Anderson quit if he was Councilor. 

I was talking about the moment right after the ending of ME2.

"It will not stop!"  

[Cerberusx32]

What ever happened to the Praetorian? That thing was annoying, but why take it out?

[Noelemahc]

Just as Scions and Abominations, it was written out as a Collector-specific husk model, unfavored by the Reapers themselves. Me, I think they would've added variety even despite the fact that the purposes of Praetorians and Harvesters, as well as Brutes and Scions overlap significantly... but not entirely. So, yeah, variety would'a been good. Sadzors =(

There was a large petition a while back to have them re-added AT LEAST into multiplayer, if only for enemy variety; along with LOKIs, YMIRs, FENRISs and Armatures.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 04 mai 2012 - 09:00 .

[The Angry One]

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

The council would have just hid it and then gave Shepard an extra 5% discount while they sat on Earth.

It's a spacestation stuffed with proof of reaper existence. In fact that is the first proof of reaper existence in ME2 that we aren't forced to blow up. There are (well, not in ME3) limits to politician stupidity.
And I am friends with the boss of Omega, she's a reasonable purple lady, I am sure we can work out some way that citadel/alliance people can work on studying all that without starting a war with Terminus.

She lost Omega to Cerberus.  

No, there is no limit to political stupidity in ME.  That's why Anderson quit if he was Councilor. 

I was talking about the moment right after the ending of ME2.

The problem is how TIM has a whole fleet of ships with Reaper IFFs he pulled out of his ass ready to jump to the Collector Base the exact moment you return.
In retrospect it should've been a forewarning of all the asspulls TIM would foreshadow in ME3.

Have you seen archengeia's video where he talks about how depending on your actions in ME3, you should've been able to get different home bases? Like renegades who preserved the Collector Base end up having kept it for themselves and use that. Paragons who blew it up get a Spectre command base on the Citadel, renegades who blew the base up get Omega.
I thought those were all decent ideas, making the big choice in ME2 actually matter.