258 réponses à ce sujet

[a.m.p]

Noelemahc wrote...

They would have had no choice. The Reapers have to have superior technology in order to win and they don't have the option to not invade. Their whole premise relies on them processing organics before we have the ability to fight them.

Indeedy. Their goal is to wipe us before we reach a singularity. When we have tech to achieve it, it is more or less likely that we are at a tech level capable of withstanding them.

This.

How to deal with a couple thousand reapers?

Few examples:
1) Noelemahc's favourite cyberwarfare
2) My favourite FTL torpedoes
3) Everyone elses favourite antimatter weapons and nukes
3) Most importantly Raynulf's favorite 'use citadel to lock down relays' idea and use reaper divide and conquer strategy against reapers
And anything else less stupid than an off button.

we'd need 12k dreadnoughts to take them down

Why?
We are not going to put all our ships in one line while they put all their ships in an opposite line and begin shooting at each other, right? Stategy. Tactics. This is a problem that needs brains applied to it, not an off button plot device

And how could possibly a conventional victory not be Shepard's story, when Shepard was that uniquly positioned person with connections that allowed them to gather all these forces?

[Applepie_Svk]

It is all nice full of facts and speculations, but i have my own theory about Reapers tactics:

• Reapers with start of every cycle lock network system
• They are using to this job Keepers which not just maintain the Citadel but also activate every 50k Citadel Relay
• Keepers are sabotaged by Ilos Prothean science team, Keepers no more respond to activation signal from Reapers
• Reapers locking system and than start with harvesting: system by system but now their plan has failed and they start looking for another allies.
• Saren and Heretics become good allies, Saren also try gather army which could be usefull in next invasion, after hunt you execute all Saren´s plans.
• In ME2 you encounter Collectors, which was originaly Protheans, their start abducting humans after events from ME1, you obvious made attention to Reapers when they are trying to enslave our race even with their servants.

• Main fact: They are using tactic which separate organics and bring chaos to their rank and than they are start with assault which means they are probably affraid of direct battle against enemy fleets. Even with all their upgrades and numbers they are affraid of chance to loose conflict.
• Their FTL drives are obvious powerfull enough to travel through Milky way in matter of days...

• They are indoctrinate species which could give them an endge on battlefiedl:
  
  Banshees -assari - biotic, Brutes - turian/krogans - battering ram, Marauders - Turians - commanding forces ..... etc etc

[*]ME3, Reapers start with fullscale war charging homeworlds but why ?[/list]

• Because they cannot use console via Keepers back on Citadel (if they could than they just charge citadel directly and shut down network)
• They are trying instead break will of species with crushing assault on homeworlds (even their advance is slower than should be, and some of planets they are fully avoiding)
• Once again they are looking for allies, which they found in desperate Geths and in the end their found allies in indoctrinated Cerberus and TIM...
• In final battle they could just shut down network but it won´t happened because Keepers no longer to answer their signal and there is noone who can work with console
• Starchild is crap because this artistic vision screwing previous two games....

This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.[list=1]

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 01 mai 2012 - 02:14 .

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Noelemahc wrote...

They would have had no choice. The Reapers have to have superior technology in order to win and they don't have the option to not invade. Their whole premise relies on them processing organics before we have the ability to fight them.

Indeedy. Their goal is to wipe us before we reach a singularity. When we have tech to achieve it, it is more or less likely that we are at a tech level capable of withstanding them.

This.

How to deal with a couple thousand reapers?

Few examples:
1) Noelemahc's favourite cyberwarfare
2) My favourite FTL torpedoes
3) Everyone elses favourite antimatter weapons and nukes
3) Most importantly Raynulf's favorite 'use citadel to lock down relays' idea and use reaper divide and conquer strategy against reapers
And anything else less stupid than an off button.

we'd need 12k dreadnoughts to take them down

Why?
We are not going to put all our ships in one line while they put all their ships in an opposite line and begin shooting at each other, right? Stategy. Tactics. This is a problem that needs brains applied to it, not an off button plot device

And how could possibly a conventional victory not be Shepard's story, when Shepard was that uniquly positioned person with connections that allowed them to gather all these forces?

Pretty sure antimatter is my favourite only, everyone else likes mushroom clouds :3

What would have been a good game was having all those options requiring different war assets to pull off effectively.

IE for antimatter weapons, you need fast, small ships and fuel depos and refineries.

With cyberwarfare you need the Geth and Reaper code

Etc, etc

[a.m.p]

Subject9x wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

And then never show them, presumably so people would not remember this cutscene.

I just realized upon watching that again; if you listen closely to when the Thanix fires, it even sounds like a lighter version of sovereigns main cannon. Yet in the final 'take back earth' salvo, you only hear that noise coming from the reapers, and not the allied fleet. <facepalm>

I'll confess, when I first saw it fire in ME2, I was absolutely sure that this (and other cool upgrades taken form Sovereign) was going be our number one method of fighting reapers. It made sense - take their tech, reverse-engineer it, turn it against them. Oh well, maybe I was watching too much Stargate at that point in my life.

About those targeting VIs - do you remember when exactly those are brought up? I'm very interested in the accuracy of targeting VIs.

Elyiia wrote...
Pretty sure antimatter is my favourite only, everyone else likes mushroom clouds :3

I stand corrected

Modifié par a.m.p, 01 mai 2012 - 01:59 .

[Noelemahc]

and there should have been a couple of preliminary salvos from the allied fleet from say, Mars-ish range or more.

Again, I point the finger at Wing Commander, where in some missions you'd be out of missiles and most enemies long before you reached dogfighting range. And that was correct, as it was essentially flying F-16s in space, something that Strike Commander demonstrated clearly. The MEverse fought long and hard to demonstrate that its combat should take into account the VASTNESS and openness of space. Everyone laughed at the speech of the drill sargeant in ME2 about the deadliest suminabeach in space. Did anyone take heed?

oh, and yes, where the hell is cyberwarfare? do the writers know what this means?

EDI's writer does. As I've already outlined, Tali's writer is apparently the only one competent enough to care about how interpersonal relations on the ship affect the crews function, as outside of her story, they are NEVER ADDRESSED. Ecksetra, ecksetra.

Just like with Fallout 2, having a fragmented team of writers with no good editor overseeing them lead to disparity in writing quality (where they were separated by who wrote which location, leading to the vast differences in tone, manners of speech of the Chosen One, who would swear at ANTS in one town and be afraid of his/her own shadow in another; inconsistencies in how low-INT characters were treated, or the fact that only two towns have actual post-ending dialogue changes).

And how could possibly a conventional victory not be Shepard's story, when Shepard was that uniquly positioned person with connections that allowed them to gather all these forces?

Because the writers deprived Shepard of the ability to affect jack s*** after he has convinced someone to join up. Otherwise, Rannoch and Tuchanka wouldn't even have hinged on Para/Rene checks and would be solvable via dialogues alone a-la Planescape Torment.

What would have been a good game was having all those options requiring different war assets to pull off effectively.

In the red herring thread, someone has pulled up a year-old Casey Hudson quote saying that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE (well, were) PLANNING TO IMPLEMENT IN THE GAME. I rest my case.

I'll confess, when I first saw it fire in ME2, I was absolutely sure that this (and other cool upgrades taken form Sovereign) was going be our number one method of fighting reapers

You're not the only one there, believe me.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 01 mai 2012 - 02:02 .

[incinerator950]

Elyiia wrote...

Pretty sure antimatter is my favourite only, everyone else likes mushroom clouds :3

I have not voiced my favorite.  Actually, do I even remember?  D:

[Elyiia]

incinerator950 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Pretty sure antimatter is my favourite only, everyone else likes mushroom clouds :3

I have not voiced my favorite.  Actually, do I even remember?  D:

I mean, in every thread about conventional victory I am always the one to bring up, explain and defend antimatter weapons. Most people prefer nukes.

[a.m.p]

Applepie_Svk wrote...
This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.

No arguments here, exactly what I was trying to point out.

One small nitpick: their FTL seems to be 30 ly/day. Then it would take them over 9 years to cross the galaxy (it's 100000 ly in diameter). Yeah, I spent way too much time calculating distances to homeworlds.

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...
This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.

No arguments here, exactly what I was trying to point out.

One small nitpick: their FTL seems to be 30 ly/day. Then it would take them over 9 years to cross the galaxy (it's 100000 ly in diameter). Yeah, I spent way too much time calculating distances to homeworlds.

Of course, 9 years being nothing to a Reaper. Why did they ignore the Citadel again? Not like shuting down the relays and gaining the census data is useful...

[Applepie_Svk]

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...
This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.

No arguments here, exactly what I was trying to point out.

One small nitpick: their FTL seems to be 30 ly/day. Then it would take them over 9 years to cross the galaxy (it's 100000 ly in diameter). Yeah, I spent way too much time calculating distances to homeworlds.

But still they manage to beat Hegemony in matter of few days, even if they are using secondary Relays to travel their FTL give them great power in  close range battles in systems which hauts me more because i doubt my Normandy can beat them in pacman mini games...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 01 mai 2012 - 02:11 .

[a.m.p]

Elyiia wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...
This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.

No arguments here, exactly what I was trying to point out.

One small nitpick: their FTL seems to be 30 ly/day. Then it would take them over 9 years to cross the galaxy (it's 100000 ly in diameter). Yeah, I spent way too much time calculating distances to homeworlds.

Of course, 9 years being nothing to a Reaper. Why did they ignore the Citadel again? Not like shuting down the relays and gaining the census data is useful...

Because if they took the citadel there would be no game? So the fleet would have to stop them from taking the citadel and we can't have that.

[incinerator950]

Elyiia wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Pretty sure antimatter is my favourite only, everyone else likes mushroom clouds :3

I have not voiced my favorite.  Actually, do I even remember?  D:

I mean, in every thread about conventional victory I am always the one to bring up, explain and defend antimatter weapons. Most people prefer nukes.

Well, I've never been one to prefer Anti-Matter as a weapon.  I enjoy severe bouts of flame-based weapons, and then Pyrotechnics like FAEs.  I also enjoy saturation laser bombardment. 

[Subject9x]

a.m.p wrote...
I'll confess, when I first saw it fire in ME2, I was absolutely sure that this (and other cool upgrades taken form Sovereign) was going be our number one method of fighting reapers. It made sense - take their tech, reverse-engineer it, turn it against them. Oh well, maybe I was watching too much Stargate at that point in my life.

About those targeting VIs - do you remember when exactly those are brought up? I'm very interested in the accuracy of targeting VIs

yeah I love stories like that; because esp. for humans; its what we do. Our nature demands we rip apart anything that piques our curosity and learn exactly how it works...then adapt it to the use we want. Although we don't always succeed, this desire is a constant in our species. 

as for the T-VI's, I'm not sure where they came in specifically, but I think they're at least mentioned in the codex. Basically I believe they equate to semi-sentient APUs, running tons of calculations, offering multiple firing solutions etc. Although they don't pull the trigger, they give the firer the most information possible to allow the firer to make the best shot possible. I swear some small-arms have VIs built-in too...at least in ME1 they were mentioned.

Noelemahc wrote...
totally agree

were you dissapointed at the lack of tactics in the final attack too? each fleet had a strength, each race a unique set of tactics...and we see none of that. I love it how everyone tells shepard that we'll lose a straight-up fight, but that's exactly what we try to pull in the final scene <facepalm x2> 

[a.m.p]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

But still they manage to beat Hegemony in matter of few days, even if they are using secondary Relays to travel their FTL give them great power in  close range battles in systems which hauts me more because i doubt my Normandy can beat them in pacman mini games...

Ah. Those. Raise a hand everyone who generally ignored the space squids and rode around the system scanning with six of them on your tail.

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...
This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.

No arguments here, exactly what I was trying to point out.

One small nitpick: their FTL seems to be 30 ly/day. Then it would take them over 9 years to cross the galaxy (it's 100000 ly in diameter). Yeah, I spent way too much time calculating distances to homeworlds.

Of course, 9 years being nothing to a Reaper. Why did they ignore the Citadel again? Not like shuting down the relays and gaining the census data is useful...

Because if they took the citadel there would be no game? So the fleet would have to stop them from taking the citadel and we can't have that.

I disagree, without the Citadel we'd need a different central hub. It would have been rather interesting to run missions out of say Omega. Of course that would require Cerberus not taking it. But still, with the importance placed on it in ME1, it shouldn't have been left until the very end for the Reapers to take it.

[Noelemahc]

were you dissapointed at the lack of tactics in the final attack too? each fleet had a strength, each race a unique set of tactics...and we see none of that. I love it how everyone tells shepard that we'll lose a straight-up fight, but that's exactly what we try to pull in the final scene <facepalm x2>

Ah, yes, the tactics. Again I have to bring up Farscape -- the eerily similar Very Definitely Final Battle has the hoo-man protagonist pretty much pistol-whip the races making up his (actually his wife's, but it's a long story) fleet into abandoning their old ages-set tactics for which the enemy has prepared, and instead working in unison in order to cover each others' weak spots and imperfections in ship design. It only really works out after the local Deus Ex Machina (without it, they swap crippling defeats for crippling skin-of-the-teeth victories; with it, it's a more natural classic Pyrrhic victory) is deployed, but it has been set up well in advance and ONLY helps attack coordination, the win is entirely organic in nature. There's a reason I wrote a horrific wall of text about it in a separate thread =)

Ah. Those. Raise a hand everyone who generally ignored the space squids and rode around the system scanning with six of them on your tail.

Aye, aye, ma'am!

Modifié par Noelemahc, 01 mai 2012 - 02:20 .

[incinerator950]

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

But still they manage to beat Hegemony in matter of few days, even if they are using secondary Relays to travel their FTL give them great power in  close range battles in systems which hauts me more because i doubt my Normandy can beat them in pacman mini games...

Ah. Those. Raise a hand everyone who generally ignored the space squids and rode around the system scanning with six of them on your tail.

On my way out of system.  Then reenter, then leave. 

[Elyiia]

incinerator950 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

But still they manage to beat Hegemony in matter of few days, even if they are using secondary Relays to travel their FTL give them great power in  close range battles in systems which hauts me more because i doubt my Normandy can beat them in pacman mini games...

Ah. Those. Raise a hand everyone who generally ignored the space squids and rode around the system scanning with six of them on your tail.

On my way out of system.  Then reenter, then leave. 

*Scan system while being chased by space kalimari*
*Exit system*
*Enter system*
*Scan planet*
*Repeat*

[Applepie_Svk]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...
This is reasons why i believe the Reapers are not so powerfull as they are saying and there is chance to beat them convetionaly, they are using tactics which fit more to enemy which don´t take any chance than enemy which should has overpowering force in every aspect.

No arguments here, exactly what I was trying to point out.

One small nitpick: their FTL seems to be 30 ly/day. Then it would take them over 9 years to cross the galaxy (it's 100000 ly in diameter). Yeah, I spent way too much time calculating distances to homeworlds.

Of course, 9 years being nothing to a Reaper. Why did they ignore the Citadel again? Not like shuting down the relays and gaining the census data is useful...

Because if they took the citadel there would be no game? So the fleet would have to stop them from taking the citadel and we can't have that.

If is IT true than i can guess the reason why they can´t take Citadel control is the Keepers were servants which has acces and knowlendge of Citadel, but without them they cant find a way to activate.
Speculations (without CATALYST): Reapers indoctrinate other species for their potential, use on battlefield but Keepers were indoctrinated for their technical skill and physique so without them Ŕeapers cannot use Citadel control directly that was reason why Sovergein were looking for allies as a Saren and Geths.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 01 mai 2012 - 02:23 .

[incinerator950]

Elyiia wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

But still they manage to beat Hegemony in matter of few days, even if they are using secondary Relays to travel their FTL give them great power in  close range battles in systems which hauts me more because i doubt my Normandy can beat them in pacman mini games...

Ah. Those. Raise a hand everyone who generally ignored the space squids and rode around the system scanning with six of them on your tail.

On my way out of system.  Then reenter, then leave. 

*Scan system while being chased by space kalimari*
*Exit system*
*Enter system*
*Scan planet*
*Repeat*

I've always enjoyed dancing in brutal skirmishes.  

ACFA

[a.m.p]

Elyiia wrote...

I disagree, without the Citadel we'd need a different central hub. It would have been rather interesting to run missions out of say Omega. Of course that would require Cerberus not taking it. But still, with the importance placed on it in ME1, it shouldn't have been left until the very end for the Reapers to take it.

But that would raise the big question why they can't fix the relay control mechanism in weeks or even months. Well, actually the question is already there, but that way it would be even more glaring.

[incinerator950]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

I disagree, without the Citadel we'd need a different central hub. It would have been rather interesting to run missions out of say Omega. Of course that would require Cerberus not taking it. But still, with the importance placed on it in ME1, it shouldn't have been left until the very end for the Reapers to take it.

But that would raise the big question why they can't fix the relay control mechanism in weeks or even months. Well, actually the question is already there, but that way it would be even more glaring.

I believe I said this a few pages back too.  

[Applepie_Svk]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

I disagree, without the Citadel we'd need a different central hub. It would have been rather interesting to run missions out of say Omega. Of course that would require Cerberus not taking it. But still, with the importance placed on it in ME1, it shouldn't have been left until the very end for the Reapers to take it.

But that would raise the big question why they can't fix the relay control mechanism in weeks or even months. Well, actually the question is already there, but that way it would be even more glaring.

The question is Why they are throwing fullscale assault which they never done before? The answer is as i said Keepers if we are preffering IT...

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

I disagree, without the Citadel we'd need a different central hub. It would have been rather interesting to run missions out of say Omega. Of course that would require Cerberus not taking it. But still, with the importance placed on it in ME1, it shouldn't have been left until the very end for the Reapers to take it.

But that would raise the big question why they can't fix the relay control mechanism in weeks or even months. Well, actually the question is already there, but that way it would be even more glaring.

But that invalidates the whole plot of ME1, if they can't fix it in a reasonable time then in ME1 why did Sovereign even bother going to the Citadel in the first place?

[incinerator950]

Elyiia wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

I disagree, without the Citadel we'd need a different central hub. It would have been rather interesting to run missions out of say Omega. Of course that would require Cerberus not taking it. But still, with the importance placed on it in ME1, it shouldn't have been left until the very end for the Reapers to take it.

But that would raise the big question why they can't fix the relay control mechanism in weeks or even months. Well, actually the question is already there, but that way it would be even more glaring.

But that invalidates the whole plot of ME1, if they can't fix it in a reasonable time then in ME1 why did Sovereign even bother going to the Citadel in the first place?

Because they could still use the Dark Space Relay, and all Sovereign needed was a puppet to open them.