843 réponses à ce sujet

[G00N3R7883]

Getorex wrote...

Sure, it is an dickish game design decision requiring MP to get a certain score above level x but fortunately, in this case, it doesn't really matter to the game as a whole. If, in fact, not being able to obtain a substantially different ending was predicated upon you achieving a certain score that could ONLY be accomplished by MP, then hell yes that would be something to scream about (and take more substantive action like boycott or worse) but that is not the case here.

If you wait to complain until this "dickish game design" does prevent you from accessing "a substantially different ending", then its already too late and your game has already been spoiled.

Its best to "scream about" it now, so that hopefully Bioware realise we don't like it, and hopefully they don't do it again in DA3 / ME4 / new franchise1.

[Krogangreetings]

7isMagic wrote...

Bringing this into focus:

We have had numerous threads on this "invisible" issue - a great many locked down over the course of these past few months.  We keep going around in circles on this issue each and every time an EMS thread is created:

1.   Folks pop in and tell us that reaching 4,000 EMS is possible without multiplayer or other modes of play though it has been proven there simply aren't enough War Assets in the game to support this assertion. No one, as far as I know, has ever proven 4K is reachable with SP alone.  Most likely, folks are getting EMS and TMS confused.

2.  Others simply say "Engage in a little MP to get to 4K EMS, what's the big deal?"  Sure, MP may be fun but not everyone has access to  MP - lack of an internet connection or a connection that is too slow to support MP.  Some simply do not want to engage in that particular mode of play.

3. Others ask 'Why does it matter?" What's all the fuss?"  It's just a short breath scene - YouTube it and be done with it.   Do we, as gamers, know - really know - what that breath scene truly represents?   What if it has significant impact on future DLC or even the upcoming EC?   One cannot discount its significance quite yet. As such, shouldn't everyone be able to reach that scene no matter the mode of play?

4.  Others, myself included, wondering why this issue came to rear its ugly head in the first place. Speculation abound:  Bug or intentional?

These have been the four main lines of discussion within this and similar EMS threads that have popped up here over the past few months (only to be locked down one after the other). 

At the end of the day, it all boils down to one simple fact:  We were promised an SP experience supplemented with MP and other modes of play.  SP was not going to be affected by MP in any way.  That was the premise upon which I bought the game - and expect a great many more worldwide also believed this was the case.  I placed my trust in Bioware to hold to this - they didn't.    That's the REAL issue here.  

Adding salt to the wound, Bioware's apparent unwillingness to honestly and openly address this issue in an official manner.   Reprehensible.

This needs to be reposted every page most of the arguments that happen in this thread could be resolved by reading a little into what we have a problem with and why, great post

G00N3R7883 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Sure,
it is an dickish game design decision requiring MP to get a certain
score above level x but fortunately, in this case, it doesn't really
matter to the game as a whole. If, in fact, not being able to obtain a
substantially different ending was predicated upon you achieving a
certain score that could ONLY be accomplished by MP, then hell yes that
would be something to scream about (and take more substantive action
like boycott or worse) but that is not the case here.

If
you wait to complain until this "dickish game design" does prevent you
from accessing "a substantially different ending", then its already too
late and your game has already been spoiled.

Its best to "scream
about" it now, so that hopefully Bioware realise we don't like it, and
hopefully they don't do it again in DA3 / ME4 / new franchise1.

yup a lot of the times games companies are watching to see what others are getting away with (if that's the right word) take Oblivion's horse amour a fuss was kicked up but people still bought it

then Capcom with their dreadful on the disc "DLC" I remember being on gamefaqs on the street fighter 4 boards when it was announced they were removing the costumes present in the arcade version and charging for them all while they sat on the disc, I told people then this is a dangerous moment if they get away with this whats next options?

but I was shouted down by the masses who claimed I should just "skip mcdonalds for a day" (a shop I don't frequent anyway I might add) and now on the disc is common practise with either part or the whole files included

I also remember when Arkham City was coming out peole asking what the DLC would be BEFORE any info outside the first trailer where known! shouldn't you hope that they include everything in the game and not charge extra? (like the excellent Bayonetta)

I dispair over the whole industry sometimes it's like it wants to implode, But I've been up hours and I'm cranky sooo 

Modifié par Krogangreetings, 26 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[crazyrabbits]

Krogangreetings wrote...

yup a lot of the times games companies are watching to see what others are getting away with (if that's the right word) take Oblivion's horse amour a fuss was kicked up but people still bought it

We haven't hit the plateau where game developers will stop using underhanded tricks to cheat the consumer out of as much money as possible. We live in an age where there are useful/interesting parts of triple-AAA games being sold as piecemeal DLC's, other games where sections are locked away unless you bought the game new (or paid for an online pass to access said locked content), retailer-exclusive bonuses, and more "Freemium" games than you can shake a stick at.

On the other side, we've got always-on DRM, companies like Blizzard trying to monetize gold farming, and Sony putting forward a proposal to stop their games periodically to advertise to players. The sad part is that there are too many ignorant people in the world who are willing to lap this stuff up.

It used to be that if I bought a game, I knew I was getting a complete experience (the older Final Fantasy games, for example). There wasn't some DLC expansion that resolved the story 4 months down the road. Today, I won't even bother to touch most games, because I know it's either missing content or there's material that will be released down the road - I don't need to pay $60 for an "incomplete" experience.

Thank God that people complained about the garbage maneuvers EA tried to pull with this game.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 26 mai 2012 - 02:53 .

[coolbeans]

I keep logging back in here in the forlorn hope there will be a little mod reply next to the topic on the Forum page.

Course there's always the risk that it will be just to lock the topic down.

[Getorex]

G00N3R7883 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Sure, it is an dickish game design decision requiring MP to get a certain score above level x but fortunately, in this case, it doesn't really matter to the game as a whole. If, in fact, not being able to obtain a substantially different ending was predicated upon you achieving a certain score that could ONLY be accomplished by MP, then hell yes that would be something to scream about (and take more substantive action like boycott or worse) but that is not the case here.

If you wait to complain until this "dickish game design" does prevent you from accessing "a substantially different ending", then its already too late and your game has already been spoiled.

Its best to "scream about" it now, so that hopefully Bioware realise we don't like it, and hopefully they don't do it again in DA3 / ME4 / new franchise1.

I take your point and accept it.  I do this also by reconsidering the oft-cited EA exec quote about wanting to charge (microtransactions) for extra ammo in game as you play.  Soon, if not nipped in the bud, you will only be buying a framework of a game for $50+.  For it to be truly playable you will then have to pay for extras (in game clothing, weapons, vehicles, etc) and will be nickle-and-dimed until to play a silly game even once will cost you well north of the original package price.  Then if you want to play again...sky's the limit baby!  Cha-ching!

[Gtacatalina]

coolbeans wrote...

I keep logging back in here in the forlorn hope there will be a little mod reply next to the topic on the Forum page.

.

Me to!

[Kub666]

Gtacatalina wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

I keep logging back in here in the forlorn hope there will be a little mod reply next to the topic on the Forum page.

.

Me to!

If there is a "Bioware" icon next to this topic it will mean only one thing - LOCKDOWN!

[freler31]

I think we should probably try to keep it on topic then. To that, I remember on the old mega thread there was discussion about bugged missing assets. Has anyone had a look about that and figured out what is missing (if there is points missing) and how much they add up to? It would have to be in the order of 1000+ points (translating to 500+ EMS) to reasonably push most people over the edge.

[Aquilas]

I suspect BioWare will never answer this question.

Why? Because BioWare flat-out said players can achieve the same game conclusion(s) through either the multiplayer or single player experience. But they can't.

The game code does not lie. The correlated files do not lie. You can't achieve 4,000+ EMS without multiplayer. It's not possible. It.Is.Not. Quite bluntly, the game is built that way.

If BioWare admits to intentionally structuring a difference between the singleplayer and multiplayer outcomes while claiming otherwise, they'll provide irrefutable, incontrovertible proof that they lied about the ME3 deliverable. We're not talking about interpreting things Casey Hudson and others said--whether or not they were too enthusiastic and just mispoke in their excitement. We're talking about the core game design, structure, and execution. Hard evidence.

It's been almost three months since players identified this issue--we still don't have an explanation. BioWare, it's a straightforward question: Was the single-player EMS shortfall an oversight, is it a bug, or was it intentional?

BioWare has said they're looking into this issue. For three months? Seriously? They may say they're focused on producing the EC. Ummm..OK...yet they have time to produce multiplayer DLC. And more than one. Do they expect us to believe those efforts preclude any possibility of answering the EMS question? C'mon now.

I was a senior executive in a very large organization. I recognize organizational dissimulation and stalling when I smell it. It's something I fought throughout my entire career.

BioWare, you can refute my conclusion easily: just answer the question. And tell us how and when you're going to fix the product you advertised, and give us what we paid for.

Modifié par Aquilas, 27 mai 2012 - 01:58 .

[Getorex]

Aquilas wrote...

I suspect BioWare will never answer this question.

Why? Because BioWare flat-out said players can achieve the same game conclusion(s) through either the multiplayer or single player experience. But they can't.

The game code does not lie. The correlated files do not lie. You can't achieve 4,000+ EMS without multiplayer. It's not possible. It.Is.Not. Quite bluntly, the game is built that way.

If BioWare admits to intentionally structuring a difference between the singleplayer and multiplayer outcomes while claiming otherwise, they'll provide irrefutable, incontrovertible proof that they lied about the ME3 deliverable. We're not talking about interpreting things Casey Hudson and others said--whether or not they were too enthusiastic and just mispoke in their excitement. We're talking about the core game design, structure, and execution. Hard evidence.

It's been almost three months since players identified this issue--we still don't have an explanation. BioWare, it's a straightforward question: Was the single-player EMS shortfall an oversight, is it a bug, or was it intentional?

BioWare has said they're looking into this issue. For three months? Seriously? They may say they're focused on producing the EC. Ummm..OK...yet they have time to produce multiplayer DLC. And more than one. Do they expect us to believe those efforts preclude any possibility of answering the EMS question? C'mon now.

I was a senior executive in a very large organization. I recognize organizational dissimulation and stalling when I smell it. It's something I fought throughout my entire career.

BioWare, you can refute my conclusion easily: just answer the question. And tell us how and when you're going to fix the product you advertised, and give us what we paid for.

Well c'mon!  Producing the loads of MP DLC that they are producing is mindless and simple.  A room full of trained monkeys could produce MP DLC by pure accident.  So they CAN focus their full attention on the EC and still produce loads of worthless commodity MP DLC at the same time.  There's no effort involved in the latter at all.

[Arsenic Touch]

Managed to get a legit 60 on d3 without glitching and they still haven't fixed this? way to go bioware.

[av196vad]

7isMagic wrote...

Bringing this into focus:

We have had numerous threads on this "invisible" issue - a great many locked down over the course of these past few months.  We keep going around in circles on this issue each and every time an EMS thread is created:

1.   Folks pop in and tell us that reaching 4,000 EMS is possible without multiplayer or other modes of play though it has been proven there simply aren't enough War Assets in the game to support this assertion. No one, as far as I know, has ever proven 4K is reachable with SP alone.  Most likely, folks are getting EMS and TMS confused.

2.  Others simply say "Engage in a little MP to get to 4K EMS, what's the big deal?"  Sure, MP may be fun but not everyone has access to  MP - lack of an internet connection or a connection that is too slow to support MP.  Some simply do not want to engage in that particular mode of play.

3. Others ask 'Why does it matter?" What's all the fuss?"  It's just a short breath scene - YouTube it and be done with it.   Do we, as gamers, know - really know - what that breath scene truly represents?   What if it has significant impact on future DLC or even the upcoming EC?   One cannot discount its significance quite yet. As such, shouldn't everyone be able to reach that scene no matter the mode of play?

4.  Others, myself included, wondering why this issue came to rear its ugly head in the first place. Speculation abound:  Bug or intentional?

These have been the four main lines of discussion within this and similar EMS threads that have popped up here over the past few months (only to be locked down one after the other). 

At the end of the day, it all boils down to one simple fact:  We were promised an SP experience supplemented with MP and other modes of play.  SP was not going to be affected by MP in any way.  That was the premise upon which I bought the game - and expect a great many more worldwide also believed this was the case.  I placed my trust in Bioware to hold to this - they didn't.    That's the REAL issue here.  

Adding salt to the wound, Bioware's apparent unwillingness to honestly and openly address this issue in an official manner.   Reprehensible.

Well said!

[The-Sapient]

BioWare has been clear on this. So that they can better ignore your concerns, you are supposed to post them in forums specific to your gaming platform. It is simply too much work for them to disregard problems with their game design if those problems are documented in the wrong forums.

If you think this is being handled incorrectly, and would like Chris Priestly to not read your comments on the matter, he requests you PM him directly. It is unfair to post complaints where he might accidentally see one, and where it is impossible for him to delete them in bulk.

[Getorex]

The-Sapient wrote...

BioWare has been clear on this. So that they can better ignore your concerns, you are supposed to post them in forums specific to your gaming platform. It is simply too much work for them to disregard problems with their game design if those problems are documented in the wrong forums.

If you think this is being handled incorrectly, and would like Chris Priestly to not read your comments on the matter, he requests you PM him directly. It is unfair to post complaints where he might accidentally see one, and where it is impossible for him to delete them in bulk.

Youch!

[Leviro2005]

I got my second playthrough right up to the Base and stopped because I didn't feel like going through it all at the time. Now, a month later and I've got my GR back down lo 52%. I don't want to play MP. I want to complete my game with the EMS I earned while playing.

In 3 years time, when I come back to the series for another playthrough (yes, despite the ending) I want to be able to get all available endings. Even a 2 second cutscene.

[Verit]

7isMagic wrote...
I can't help but wonder (and I wonder if others have had the same thought) - Bioware may be holding out on this issue until they are satisfied they've milked MP for all it's worth.

It's something plenty of people have suispected right from the start, but by now it only seems all the more plausible that this is really what they're doing. Seeing how easy the problem is to fix and how they've now resorted to smply ignoring us altogether, I can't come up with any other explanation.

[tishyw]

Any more news on the promised patch and whether it fixes this "bug"?

[RocketManSR2]

tishyw wrote...

Any more news on the promised patch and whether it fixes this "bug"?

*Watches tumbleweed roll by*

Nope.

[paul165]

Although according to Mike Gamble the MP dlc that was being developed by a seperate team 'involves the whole team' so sadly those MP dlcs are impacting on dev time bneing spent on minor things like making sure the game works.

I think at this point after almost 4 months several mega threads and repeated PMs with no response I am going to assume the following:

a)Bioware as a company knew about this issue before release or at least in the first week afterwards.
b)They are not going to correct it as that would reduce the income from MP.
c)They are going to keep ignoring all requests for a fix or even an acknowledgement of the issue.
d)They are going to keep lying about it because a multiplayer requirement would reduce sales (note the FAQ on the website still states you don't need MP).

This unfortunately logically leads me to:
e) I can't trust a d*mn thing they say about any future game release's requirements for MP/Social Apps and therefore
f) I won't buy any further BW game until it is confirmed by the fans playing the game that no MP/Social App requirement is present.

[Starspiral]

paul165 wrote...

Although according to Mike Gamble the MP dlc that was being developed by a seperate team 'involves the whole team' so sadly those MP dlcs are impacting on dev time bneing spent on minor things like making sure the game works.

I think at this point after almost 4 months several mega threads and repeated PMs with no response I am going to assume the following:

a)Bioware as a company knew about this issue before release or at least in the first week afterwards.
b)They are not going to correct it as that would reduce the income from MP.
c)They are going to keep ignoring all requests for a fix or even an acknowledgement of the issue.
d)They are going to keep lying about it because a multiplayer requirement would reduce sales (note the FAQ on the website still states you don't need MP).

This unfortunately logically leads me to:
e) I can't trust a d*mn thing they say about any future game release's requirements for MP/Social Apps and therefore
f) I won't buy any further BW game until it is confirmed by the fans playing the game that no MP/Social App requirement is present.

Could not have put it better myself.
I, for one, will never be pre-ordering any Bioware (or any EA) product in the future - for that matter I will not be buying any Bioware product until they have been out for several weeks and have been "approved" by a large number of fans.
This whole affair has left a very sour taste in my mouth.

[Aquilas]

Getorex wrote...

Aquilas wrote...

I suspect BioWare will never answer this question.

Why? Because BioWare flat-out said players can achieve the same game conclusion(s) through either the multiplayer or single player experience. But they can't.

The game code does not lie. The correlated files do not lie. You can't achieve 4,000+ EMS without multiplayer. It's not possible. It.Is.Not. Quite bluntly, the game is built that way.

If BioWare admits to intentionally structuring a difference between the singleplayer and multiplayer outcomes while claiming otherwise, they'll provide irrefutable, incontrovertible proof that they lied about the ME3 deliverable. We're not talking about interpreting things Casey Hudson and others said--whether or not they were too enthusiastic and just mispoke in their excitement. We're talking about the core game design, structure, and execution. Hard evidence.

It's been almost three months since players identified this issue--we still don't have an explanation. BioWare, it's a straightforward question: Was the single-player EMS shortfall an oversight, is it a bug, or was it intentional?

BioWare has said they're looking into this issue. For three months? Seriously? They may say they're focused on producing the EC. Ummm..OK...yet they have time to produce multiplayer DLC. And more than one. Do they expect us to believe those efforts preclude any possibility of answering the EMS question? C'mon now.

I was a senior executive in a very large organization. I recognize organizational dissimulation and stalling when I smell it. It's something I fought throughout my entire career.

BioWare, you can refute my conclusion easily: just answer the question. And tell us how and when you're going to fix the product you advertised, and give us what we paid for.

Well c'mon!  Producing the loads of MP DLC that they are producing is mindless and simple.  A room full of trained monkeys could produce MP DLC by pure accident.  So they CAN focus their full attention on the EC and still produce loads of worthless commodity MP DLC at the same time.  There's no effort involved in the latter at all.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.  If you are, then we're in violent agreement.  Using EC tasks and multiplayer DLC construction as excuses for not addressing the EMS issue is disingenuous at best, and outright lying at worst.  

If you're not being sarcastic, then we disagree.  What I'm saying is, answering the EMS question in no way demands the effort required to produce DLC.  It's not as complex as solving the face importation problem--a problem they'd publicly identified on the EA tech support pages on March 1st--the game's scheduled release was March 6th.  They already knew they'd built the game so you couldn't use faces coded way back in ME.  They seemed OK with it.  Oops.  Caught red-handed.  No way outta that one.

So my conclusion stands.  It may take more than three months to fix the problem, but it certainly doesn't take more than three months to own up to it: oversight, bug, or intentional (oops, caught us again).  If they need help, all they have to do is read these forums--lotsa smart people have provided lotsa solid information.  It's there for the taking.

Modifié par Aquilas, 28 mai 2012 - 11:38 .

[freler31]

paul165 wrote...


a)Bioware as a company knew about this issue before release or at least in the first week afterwards.
b)They are not going to correct it as that would reduce the income from MP.
c)They are going to keep ignoring all requests for a fix or even an acknowledgement of the issue.
d)They are going to keep lying about it because a multiplayer requirement would reduce sales (note the FAQ on the website still states you don't need MP).

This unfortunately logically leads me to:
e) I can't trust a d*mn thing they say about any future game release's requirements for MP/Social Apps and therefore
f) I won't buy any further BW game until it is confirmed by the fans playing the game that no MP/Social App requirement is present.

Well said.

[Getorex]

Aquilas wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Aquilas wrote...

I suspect BioWare will never answer this question.

Why? Because BioWare flat-out said players can achieve the same game conclusion(s) through either the multiplayer or single player experience. But they can't.

The game code does not lie. The correlated files do not lie. You can't achieve 4,000+ EMS without multiplayer. It's not possible. It.Is.Not. Quite bluntly, the game is built that way.

If BioWare admits to intentionally structuring a difference between the singleplayer and multiplayer outcomes while claiming otherwise, they'll provide irrefutable, incontrovertible proof that they lied about the ME3 deliverable. We're not talking about interpreting things Casey Hudson and others said--whether or not they were too enthusiastic and just mispoke in their excitement. We're talking about the core game design, structure, and execution. Hard evidence.

It's been almost three months since players identified this issue--we still don't have an explanation. BioWare, it's a straightforward question: Was the single-player EMS shortfall an oversight, is it a bug, or was it intentional?

BioWare has said they're looking into this issue. For three months? Seriously? They may say they're focused on producing the EC. Ummm..OK...yet they have time to produce multiplayer DLC. And more than one. Do they expect us to believe those efforts preclude any possibility of answering the EMS question? C'mon now.

I was a senior executive in a very large organization. I recognize organizational dissimulation and stalling when I smell it. It's something I fought throughout my entire career.

BioWare, you can refute my conclusion easily: just answer the question. And tell us how and when you're going to fix the product you advertised, and give us what we paid for.

Well c'mon!  Producing the loads of MP DLC that they are producing is mindless and simple.  A room full of trained monkeys could produce MP DLC by pure accident.  So they CAN focus their full attention on the EC and still produce loads of worthless commodity MP DLC at the same time.  There's no effort involved in the latter at all.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.  If you are, then we're in violent agreement.  Using EC tasks and multiplayer DLC construction as excuses for not addressing the EMS issue is disingenuous at best, and outright lying at worst.  

If you're not being sarcastic, then we disagree.  What I'm saying is, answering the EMS question in no way demands the effort required to produce DLC.  It's not as complex as solving the face importation problem--a problem they'd publicly identified on the EA tech support pages on March 1st--the game's scheduled release was March 6th.  They already knew they'd built the game so you couldn't use faces coded way back in ME.  They seemed OK with it.  Oops.  Caught red-handed.  No way outta that one.

So my conclusion stands.  It may take more than three months to fix the problem, but it certainly doesn't take more than three months to own up to it: oversight, bug, or intentional (oops, caught us again).  If they need help, all they have to do is read these forums--lotsa smart people have provided lotsa solid information.  It's there for the taking.

I was being sarcastic but not to or about you.  I was also making the observation that Bioware can  easily and effortlessly pump out MP stuff with one hand tied behind their back so there is no way that the "work" involved in that can in any way hinder or slow any work to correct the issue at hand, if a correction is even in the offing.  I am of the feeling that the EMS issue is considered a feature, not a bug, and that it is serving the purpose they intended: to encourage MP play. 

[Gtacatalina]

Well it looks like we'll find out soon if they will fix this issue. Patch out this week.

https://twitter.com/...=twt&source=twt

Also interesting tweet about the ending dlc!

[CG Drum]

Gtacatalina wrote...

Well it looks like we'll find out soon if they will fix this issue. Patch out this week.

https://twitter.com/...=twt&source=twt

Also interesting tweet about the ending dlc!

Just saw that and came here to check it had been linked - saved me a job!

Fingers crossed this will resolve our EMS situation - if not I'd certainly like to know why it doesn't, and if it does I will say a big thank you to them for sorting it out!  

Don't care anymore why they have done this - just want it sorted!!!!