64 réponses à ce sujet

[HippeusOmega]

Working on a Insanity Soldier run with my level 30 shepard. Anyhow was curious what is the better evoultion of Adrenaline rush at rank 6? Also what should I max out after Adrenaline rush, Incendiary Ammo, Combat Mastery, and Fitness is done? Also thinking for Squadmates for the first half: Liara/Garrus and the 2nd half: Kaidan/Liara.

[Forst1999]

The adrenaline rush evolution which allows you to use one power for free is nice with concussive shot (bonus aginast organics) and energy drain (great against shields, the defensive bonus is comparable to the one the other AR evolution would offer).
Also worth considering: Squad cryo ammo for your squaddies that lack an ammo power.

[HippeusOmega]

How good is Ashley with a Soldier cause I kinda wanna do my paragon shepard and she is alive in that one.

[Dapper Chimp]

The following build will give you 150% weapon damage bonus, 50% power damage bonus, 70% ammo damage bonus, 125% power recharge, and 20% force bonus.

a = top evolution
b = bottom evolution

Adrenaline Rush - 4b, 5a, 6a (use of offensive power is helpful for power combos on lower difficulties, but nearly useless on Insanity)

Concussive Shot - 4a, 5b, 6a (I didn't see the value in the Ammo power applied evolution until the first time I stripped a Nemesis of its shields by spamming Concussive Shot while it was in cover. Now I'm a believer)

Frag Grenade - 4a (Frag Grenade is my "dump stat" for Insanity soldier Shep. Still does 1200 damage with bonuses, but only carries 4. I hang onto these for triggering the power combos that I can't get with Concussive Shot on higher levels)

Incendiary Ammo - 4a, 5b, 6a (with power/ammo bonuses, this ammo gives a 51% damage bonus)

Disruptor Ammo - 4a, 5b, 6a (25.5% again health, 102% against shields and barriers)

Cryo Ammo - 4a, 5b, 6b (I'd probably take 6a on lower difficulties)

Combat Mastery - 4a, 5a, 6b (4b might be necessary for non-imported Sheps, but you'll still get every dialog option with 12% if you are carrying your character over from another game. 6a is attractive because it allows you to carry more weapons, however I guarantee you that you only need two and you can spam AR and CS doing it my way and get a lot more damage out of each shot for your trouble)

Fitness - 4b, 5b, 6b (melee is not as useful on higher difficulties whereas 900 health/shields is helpful all the time. 5b along with one of the intel bonuses gives 20% shield recharge bonus)

Bonus power: Fortification - 4a, 5b, 6a (20% damage reduction, 20% power bonus. The Power Usage Penalty is offset by traveling light)

Equipment:
N7 Chestplate, Serrice Council Shoulders, Kassa Fabrication Gauntlets, Hahne-Kedar Legs
N7 Valkyrie Assault Rifle (stabilization mod all the time, switch between scope and magazine mod depending on the mission)
M-77 Paladin Heavy Pistol (piercing and magazine mods. Use this with Incendiary Ammo on Brutes, Harvesters, Ravagers, and Banshees without their barriers. Use the Valkyrie for everything else.)

Intel Bonuses:
Remains of Reaper Destroyer - Store Discount Bonus
Advanced Biotic Implants - Power Cooldown Bonus
Research Data From Pragia - Power Damage Bonus
Miniaturized Armor Capacitors - Shield Regen Speed (I think it's labeled "Shield Bonus")
Gallae’s Electronic Signature - Store Discount Bonus
Improved Geth Resistors - Shields
Volus Intelligence Archives - Power Damage Bonus
Intact Reaper Weapon - Weapon Damage
Intel from the Battle of Arcturus - Weapon Damage
Weapon Upgrade Kit - Ammo Capacity
Armor Modkit - Ammo Capacity
Med Bay Surgery - Health
Prejik Paddle Fish - Weapon Damage (the aforementioned 150% weapon damage bonus is only 140% if you don't have this bonus available)

With this build, you'll have a 4 second cooldown for Adrenaline Rush, and a 2.11 second cooldown for Concussive Shot. Insanity is very manageable under these conditions

[capn233]

Saying that "using an offensive power on Insanity is useless" is a comment that I find, well, useless. It depends on your bonus power, and if you know how to use CS effectively.

The biggest advantage that power gives you on a Vanilla soldier is rapidly engaging multiple targets. You can hit Adrenaline Rush and stagger or knock down a target with CS, and fire at his buddies. That was one less target shooting back at you. Or depending on evolutions and ammo powers, perhaps you froze a target with Cryo Ammo... you could potentially finish him with CS and move onto the next target while CS is in the air.  Or if you are using Disriptor Ammo you could use CS to set off the Tech Burst.

A better use is when you take an offensive bonus power, which you should be doing anyway since you don't need all this damage protection stacking. One of the most effective is Energy Drain. It can function as a poor man's neural shock (like what we had in ME2, not the Overload evolution). More importantly, EDrain not only drops an enemy's shields, but it adds more survivability to your character under ARush by refilling yours. In effect, does what the last rank of ARush does anyway, but it also drops an enemy's on top of that.

If you don't feel right about taking a tech power on your soldier, then I don't blame you. But the power under ARush still isn't useless. It would be better if Bioware didn't try to screw soldiers one last time by making Marksman unusable under ARush.

Modifié par capn233, 30 avril 2012 - 07:59 .

[Dapper Chimp]

It does depend on your bonus power. In the build I provided above, the bonus power is Fortification which can only be discharged for a melee bonus. I've done two insanity runs with roughly that build and never used it once. Frag Grenade isn't a power, therefore can be used during AR regardless. That leaves CS.

CS can be helpful while AR is active, but mostly you'd only use that to detonate a power combo. In fact, I'd arguethat's almost the only reason you'd fire CS with AR actvie. Combat power combos are more difficult on insanity (the setting the OP was asking about), making AR access to CS less useful than having an extra 250 points in shields (I hate having to duck behind cover while AR is active because my shields just dropped).

If the original question was about something other than an insanity build, I'd probably agree with you.

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 30 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[capn233]

Combat power combos are not more difficult on Insanity, or at least not by any degree that warrants mentioning, in my experience anyway. If you take any reasonable rate of fire weapon you will easily stun a target with any decent level of Disruptor Ammo, and can set of the Tech Burst. It is ok for Cryo Explosions (with the bonus to frozen target damage), but yes CS is pretty bad for attempting a Fire Explosion.  If you don't want to run Disruptor, you could always use Garrus or EDI to Overload a target, and hit that one with CS for the combo.

I happened to have played the game on Insanity a couple times myself... While getting some amount of your base shields restored is nice for getting your shield gate back, I did not find it terribly useful otherwise.  That is partly why I experimented with Energy Drain as a bonus with the offensive power evolution.  It is like having your cake and eating it too.

Perhaps the shields is the hot ticket with Fortification on Insanity. But you certainly could be setting off Tech Bursts with CS (yours or Garrus/EDI's) if you wanted. And that damage does in fact scale up with increased difficulty (tech and biotic combos do a fixed percent of enemy health damage), unlike weapon damage. One of the reason powers eclipse weapons for usefulness on higher difficulties.

Modifié par capn233, 30 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[Dapper Chimp]

They absolutely are. Cryo and Fire combos have to kill in order to detonate. Enemies have more health on higher levels/difficulties and CS is not a high-damage power.

You're better off using your Frag Grenades (like I mentioned in my post) or another squad members' power. Again, this means that 6b AR is not the best way to spend those 6 points.

That is still the question, right?

[survivor_686]

Soldier (my build and playstyle)
- Focus on putting rounds downrange fast and hard.
- Use Revenant to deal with multiple enemies fast and hard.
- Use the Power usuage for adrenaline rush. Able to use two powers at the same time for the price of one.
- Buff up disruptor and incendiary ammo. Cyro is kinda...iffy

Wrt to Ashley, her build will kinda depend on yours:
- Give her a Revenant if you use any other weapon. Ideal combination is a Valkyrie for you and a Revenant for her. She can supress targets hard and fast.
- Or if you prefer the Revenant (and why not), give her a falcon. She can blast groups of enemies or at least set them up for you. This combo is fairly versatile and benefits with any other squadmate. Garrus and Liara is what I use.

[Dapper Chimp]

Re: Disruptor vs Cryo, my rule of thumb is Disruptor for Cerberus missions, Cryo for Reaper missions. Marauders can't buff and Cannibals can't cannibalize an enemy that has been shattered into 100 pieces. Disruptor has a health damage component, is good against shields and barriers, and is easier to power combo.

I stick Incendiary ammo on the Paladin and only bring that out when I'm up against something with armor on it.

Re: Ashley - I give her the Incisor and the Sabre, as they both benefit from Marksman. James gets the Revenant/Falcon and the Claymore.

[HippeusOmega]

thanks guys. you've given me a lot to think about. Can Soldier still snipe decent? I know Soldier was nerfed a little on sniping to give Infrilatrator more of a unquie role. Cause I like my Soldier using AR's and Sniper Rifles.

Modifié par Panznerr, 02 mai 2012 - 01:49 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Panznerr wrote...

thanks guys. you've given me a lot to think about. Can Soldier still snipe decent? I know Soldier was nerfed a little on sniping to give Infrilatrator more of a unquie role. Cause I like my Soldier using AR's and Sniper Rifles.

The time dilation via Adrenaline Rush is pretty close to Hardened Adrenaline Rush from ME2 (45% vs 50%). If you did ok with that in 2, then you'll be fine in 3.

With that said, please allow me to make my case for why you shouldn't go SR/AR.

1) Range - Range is roughly broken out into three categories: long, mid, and short (close quarters aka CQC). The right AR can cover all three, thought the trade off is a weapon that excels in one or more at the expense of the others (i.e. the Revenant is great up mid-to-short range, but you shouldn't use it for distance). The reason I like the N7 Valkryie is that it's fairly versatile. From cover, it's almost as accurate as a SR. With the scope mod it is a SR (albeit not a very powerful one). If mid-long range is covered by your AR, then your other weapon should really focus on short range. I was previously a fan of AR/SG, however shotguns are a bit heavier than Heavy Pistols and fire slower. Soldiers can use them well, but I think it's almost better to leave them to Vanguards.

2) Weight/Cooldown - any discussion re: sniper rifles is going to end up as a lobby for the Black Widow. The Black Widow is heavy. 250 weight at level I and 200 at level X. Your soldier has 375 max. At level 60 in NG+ with the lightest possible Black Widow, your soldier is looking at a carry weight of 340. That mean you have a cooldown bonus of 35%, assuming you're not carrying anything else. If Adrenaline Rush and Concussive shot aren't that important to you, then this is a non-issue. However, I like being able to have the 75% damage bonus that comes with spamming AR, and CS has saveed my ass many a time. Again, this is the best possible scenario. Your level 30 Shep is going to have a cooldown penalty with this loadout.

3) Utility - I could have lumped this under either of the above, but I really feel that it deserves to be broken out. Ask yourself how often are you really going to use that SR. I can't argue that it's useless, but I can argue that you can have a much different experience by going lighter and more aggressive. The Soldier is built for kicking ass on the battlefield. He's running around like a mad man, flanking, rolling, shooting, and punching. Save the sniping for the tactician (i.e. the Infiltrator). There are some missions where range is nice. Put a scope on your AR for those and enjoy the fact that you can hit AR every four seconds in exchange. 

[HippeusOmega]

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe the N7 Valiant instead of the Black Widow. Will just have to be something I think about I guess. I do use Assault Rifles more then a SR. But I like having a Sniper just incase.

Modifié par Panznerr, 02 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[Stormbringer3]

I put a scope on the Paladin and I use that as my SR. I was using a Viper but I'm happy with the change.

[capn233]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

They absolutely are. Cryo and Fire combos have to kill in order to detonate. Enemies have more health on higher levels/difficulties and CS is not a high-damage power.

You're better off using your Frag Grenades (like I mentioned in my post) or another squad members' power. Again, this means that 6b AR is not the best way to spend those 6 points.

That is still the question, right?

It is harder to look at their health and fire the CS when appropriate?

It isn't any more difficult to set them off despite their increased health.  CS setting off Cryo and Fire explosions is not particularly great on any level.  But those aren't the only combos, you can easily do Tech Bursts all day long if you want.

And no, combos weren't the question, the question was about builds and what is more effective.

You keep insisting that firing a power under ARush is not useful, but you are still not taking the time to consider any of the other vast number of offensive powers available to you besides concussive shot.  Bonus power and Energy Drain is vastly superior to you shield evolution at Rank 6.  And that is just one example.  Basically every single offensive bonus power is superior to the shield restore rank.

Modifié par capn233, 02 mai 2012 - 05:04 .

[Dapper Chimp]

capn233 wrote...
It is harder to look at their health and fire the CS when appropriate?

Yes.

Enemy has 3 bars of health. Weapon fires two rounds. If I I have incendiary ammo, does the damage over time affect kill the enemy before my CS reaches them? If I have cryo, does my first bullet chill them causing the 2nd or 3rd to kill them before I can detonate? Do I fire the CS a half second to early and miss the detonation because my 200 dmg attack didn't kill the enemy with 201 hps?
It's easier on lower difficulties where you just get 'em down to the last few bars and know that you're probably good. The larger hp pools of higher difficulty make it harder. 

To your point, this can be made easier with a different offensive bonus power. To my point, the benefits of Fortificatin are too valuable to pass on.

capn233 wrote... 
It isn't any more difficult to set them off despite their increased health.  CS setting off Cryo and Fire explosions is not particularly great on any level.  But those aren't the only combos, you can easily do Tech Bursts all day long if you want.

You certainly can. Is it worth the 6 points to occationally set off tech burst? Versus having an extra 250 points in Shields all the time? For you maybe. 

Keep in mind that you don't need to have AR active to do this either. 

capn233 wrote...  
And no, combos weren't the question, the question was about builds and what is more effective.

Go back and read what I wrote. *rolls eyes*

capn233 wrote...   
You keep insisting that firing a power under ARush is not useful, but you are still not taking the time to consider any of the other vast number of offensive powers available to you besides concussive shot.  Bonus power and Energy Drain is vastly superior to you shield evolution at Rank 6.  And that is just one example.  Basically every single offensive bonus power is superior to the shield restore rank.

I've already take the time to consider the other offensive bonus power and determined they aren't worth it. Fortification gives you 15-30% DR and a 20% power bonus which applies to all your ammo powers, your frag grenade, and CS. And all the other offensive bonus powers come with cooldown times which means that you can either only fire them while AR is active or you now have something else to wait for when you could be/should be spamming AR and/or CS. For what? The ability to occationally make pretty explosions.

I guarantee you that one of us has spent more time thinking about this than the other, capn233. Move along.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Personally, heres how my Soldier ended up at the end on Hardcore-v

Adrenaline Rush- R4: Damage, R5: Duration, R6: Shield Boost
Concussive Shot- R4: Radius, R5: Recharge Speed, R6: Amplification
Frag Grenade- R4: Radius, R5: Max Grenades, R6: Shield Damage
Incendiary Ammo- R4: Damage, R5: Capacity, R6: Damage
Disrupter Ammo- R4: Squad, R5: Capacity, R6: Damage
Cryo Ammo- None
Combat Mastery- R4: Damage, R5: Headshots, R6: Damage
Fitness- R4: Durability, R5: Shield Recharge, R6: Durability
Bonus Power: Fortification- R4: Durability, R5: Shield Recharge, R6: Durability
Weapons- Viper V and Revenant V

My suggestion after playing through with it-v
Adrenaline Rush- R4: Damage, R5: Duration, R6: Shield Boost
Concussive Shot- R4: Radius, R5: Shatter, R6: Amplification
Frag Grenade- R4: Damage, R5: Max Grenades, R6: Shield Damage
Incendiary Ammo- R4: Damage, R5: Capacity, R6: Damage
Disrupter Ammo- None
Cryo Ammo- R4: Squad
Combat Mastery- R4: Influence and Duration, R5: Headshots, R6: Damage
Fitness- R4: Melee Damage, R5: Shield Recharge, R6: Durability
Bonus Power: Fortification- R4: Durability, R5: Power Synergy, R6: Duarbility
Weapons- Revenant X and Carnifex X

Modifié par Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd, 02 mai 2012 - 05:38 .

[capn233]

Dapper Chimp wrote...
Some more chimp BS

You just don't know what you are talking about.  Yet again.

Extra 250 shields is not much to write home about on Insanity.  Not compared to using Energy Drain to refill your shields and bypass shield gate AND stun enemies, or using any number of other powers.

Unfortunately I didn't realize I was arguing with the same Chimpy as in the other thread.  I do not care what your interpretation of a thread is. You will talk about whatever you want and not listen to anyone else who offers any useful information.  Just as in the other thread, this topic is not about whatever you want to make it.

Panznerr wrote...

Working on a Insanity Soldier run with my level 30 shepard. Anyhow was curious what is the better evoultion of
Adrenaline rush at rank 6? Also what should I max out after Adrenaline rush, Incendiary Ammo, Combat Mastery, and Fitness is done? Also thinking for Squadmates for the first half: Liara/Garrus and the 2nd half: Kaidan/Liara.

He is asking for the better evolution of Adrenaline Rush.  You posted your build, which apparently has to be the greatest build ever, and then dismiss anyone elses advice. Well fine, I don't give a flying **** if you change your Adrenaline Rush evolution.  I posted so that the OP could get a different perspective, and perhaps have more information to make up his mind.

Does this forum have an ignore?

To the OP, unlike in MP, in SP the use a power evolution is much more valuable than the shields.  In MP the shields give you back your shield gate, which can potentially save you and the only offensive power available to you is CS.  In SP you aren't restricted like that, there are other options for bonus powers.  Given the damage output of enemies on Insanity, the bonus on top of base shields while ARush is active is not very significant.  Of course if you want to use ARush to get your shield gate back that is fine.  You can do that with Energy Drain in nearly every encounter where this may be an issue if you would like.  Or use a different power for CC to save yourself.  It is up to you.

It does depend on what bonus power you take of course.  If you want damage reduction you could also go with Defensive Matrix and purge to your shields instead of purging to melee damage.  And take bonus power evolution for more CC and more damage output.

But, as I said before, you are much more versatile if you take the fire power under ARush evolution, especially if you take a good offensive bonus power like Energy Drain, Slam, Dark Channel.  Tech Bursts and Biotic Combos scale with difficulty level, as they do a set percent damage to enemies.  Unlike weapon damage, and unlike your shields which are relatively weaker on higher difficulty.

Modifié par capn233, 02 mai 2012 - 07:20 .

[Dapper Chimp]

capn233 wrote...
Extra 250 shields is not much to write home about on Insanity.

Extra 250 shields is 25-33% more shields (depending on your build) regardless of what difficulty you are playing. It amazes me that some people apparently think that 25-35% bonuses are "insiginicant' around here. 

 

capn233 wrote... 
Not compared to using Energy Drain to refill your shields and bypass shield gate AND stun enemies, or using any number of other powers.

Help me understand the process here. You're activating AR then what, not shooting your target so that you can use Energy Drain on them? The whole purpose of AR is to give you time to line up shots and deal a **** ton of damage. If I'm up against a shielded enemy, I'm hitting them with Disruptor Ammo (it appears that the soldier already comes with a tool for dealing with shields and stunning enemies) and trying to kill them as fast as I can. You may enjoy dawdling around, waiting for a chance to use Energy Drain, but it seems like a collossal waste of time. 

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion, but as you pointed out, this thread is supposed to be about effective soldier builds and it seems to me that this is something that can be quantified.

 

capn233 wrote...  
Unfortunately I didn't realize I was arguing with the same Chimpy as in the other thread.  I do not care what your interpretation of a thread is. You will talk about whatever you want and not listen to anyone else who offers any useful information.  Just as in the other thread, this topic is not about whatever you want to make it.

Err...I'm glad you're learning how to pay attention???

capn233 wrote...  

Panznerr wrote...

Working on a Insanity Soldier run with my level 30 shepard. Anyhow was curious what is the better evoultion of
Adrenaline rush at rank 6? Also what should I max out after Adrenaline rush, Incendiary Ammo, Combat Mastery, and Fitness is done? Also thinking for Squadmates for the first half: Liara/Garrus and the 2nd half: Kaidan/Liara.

He is asking for the better evolution of Adrenaline Rush.

Yep, and just to catch you up, that exactly what you and I have been talking about. You think the active power evolution is the most effective. I think it is on lower difficulties but not on higher ones. 

 

capn233 wrote...   
You posted your build, which apparently has to be the greatest build ever, and then dismiss anyone elses advice. Well fine, I don't give a flying **** if you change your Adrenaline Rush evolution.  I posted so that the OP could get a different perspective, and perhaps have more information to make up his mind.

And you're welcome do so. I think there are holes in your logic and I have just as much right to point those out as you do to post here. Welcome to free speech, buddy. 

You think my build is crap? Please feel free to share where it's weak and explain why. We may all learn something. I've at least made some attempt to explain my reasoning and back it up with logic. You've resorted to name callling, big man.

capn233 wrote...    
Does this forum have an ignore?

Does this forum member have self-restraint?

capn233 wrote...   
To the OP, unlike in MP, in SP the use a power evolution is much more valuable than the shields.  In MP the shields give you back your shield gate, which can potentially save you and the only offensive power available to you is CS.  In SP you aren't restricted like that, there are other options for bonus powers.  Given the damage output of enemies on Insanity, the bonus on top of base shields while ARush is active is not very significant.  Of course if you want to use ARush to get your shield gate back that is fine.  You can do that with Energy Drain in nearly every encounter where this may be an issue if you would like.  Or use a different power for CC to save yourself.  It is up to you.

To the OP, whereas Fortification has a flat 15-30 damage reduction that doesn't have to be managed and gives you a 20% bonus to every means of causing damage at your disposal. One of these bonus powers requires additional managment, is situational, and prevents you using AR and CS when used outside of AR and the other does not. 

Just something to think about.

capn233 wrote...    
It does depend on what bonus power you take of course.  If you want damage reduction you could also go with Defensive Matrix and purge to your shields instead of purging to melee damage.  And take bonus power evolution for more CC and more damage output.

Defensive Matrix is another option. Unlike Fortification it does allow you to recharge shields when purged, however the damage bonus is limited to tech powers (which your soldier doesn't have), and when you use it, there is a cooldown period during which you cannot use AR or CS. Fortification can be turned on at the beginning of the game and forgotten about (unless you really like to use a lot of melee and want the bonus).

capn233 wrote...     
But, as I said before, you are much more versatile if you take the fire power under ARush evolution, especially if you take a good offensive bonus power like Energy Drain, Slam, Dark Channel.  Tech Bursts and Biotic Combos scale with difficulty level, as they do a set percent damage to enemies.  Unlike weapon damage, and unlike your shields which are relatively weaker on higher difficulty.

And this may be true. The soldier's bread and butter is the ability to deal a lot of damage, not necessarily to rely on power combos (like a Vanguard or Adept would, for example). Tech and Biotic bonus powers are a viable option, however don't necessarily synergize well with a soldier since they'll be dealing baseline damage. Combat combos are pretty and rewarding when they occur, however I found the whole exercise of trying to micro-managing things so that I could time combos just right to be a little tedious after a while. Your results may vary.

[Athenau]

If you're abusing incendiary ammo energy drain is probably the best bonus power since switching to disruptor when encountering shielded foes is much slower than just energy draining them so you can start triggering flame explosions on their health bar immediately. Also the 100% shield restoration is incredibly effective.

Fortification does have potential because of the DR + ammo power boost though.

[ryoldschool]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

 Go back and read what I wrote. *rolls eyes*

lol, are you a teenager?

[Dapper Chimp]

lol, why?

[ryoldschool]

Because teenagers usually roll their eyes when they are being brats.

[Dapper Chimp]

And adults say "lol, are you a teenager" when someone rolls their eyes?

Way to stake out the moral high ground.

[ryoldschool]

^ its just whenever you are in a conversation with somebody who rolls their eyes as a gesture, that means there is no respect for the other person and the conversation is over. When I saw that in your post it suggested to me that you were not really serious in discussing the topic.