64 réponses à ce sujet

[Dapper Chimp]

capn233 has made it a habit of conveniently ignoring things I've said when he thinks it will help support his point. He's done in half a dozen times over the course of a couple of days and it's getting 1) frustrating and 2) old.

So when he suggested I wasn't addressing the topic when that was exactly what I was doing, I rolled my eyes and asked him to read it again.

[capn233]

I read your posts. You just have a habit of writing things that have no bearing on the matter at hand, and then complain that nobody is reading your irrelevant nonsense.

In this thread you specifically say that firing a power under Adrenaline Rush is useless on Insanity. A position that is narrow-minded at best. You go on to "prove" that this is the case by attacking one of the limited uses of this evolution I provided which was using CS to set off combos. Because clearly that is the only use of the power under ARush... setting off Cryo Explosions or Fire Explosions.

You then imply that I think that CS combos were what made the evolution viable, including some more bs about how it was more difficult to set off Cryo and Fire Explosions on Insanity and ask about the question of this thread... which I basically agree with your condescending question/point and state that it was a thread about soldier builds and ARush evolution.

The fact of the matter is that here and elsewhere you have no interest in entertaining any other viewpoint than the one that you brought into the thread to begin with. You also clutter it with irrelevant data and get upset when people don't pay attention to it. Like talking about how wonderful the Paladin is under Adrenaline Rush in a topic about the long range weapon on a Sentinel... and then jumping on my point about how "Throw" was the best tool for a Sentinel to use on large enemies and going on some side conversation about how other classes didn't have "Throw."

Hell some of the same odd logic is making it's way into this topic. Firing a power under ARush wastes a lot of firing time? Don't you ever have to switch targets? Especially with the insane DPS your Paladin is putting out, I would imagine the targets are dropping so fast you are changing targets quite a bit. Can't fire a power in between targets at all? I guess you are probably too busy firing in between targets to keep all that DPS going.

So I am reading your posts. Others are too. Hell, in the other thread Kronner, strive, and myself were all telling you the same thing but you were absolutely dismissive of any of our points. And it isn't any different here.

Modifié par capn233, 03 mai 2012 - 07:12 .

[Dapper Chimp]

capn233 wrote...
In this thread you specifically say that firing a power under Adrenaline Rush is useless on Insanity. A position that is narrow-minded at best. You go on to "prove" that this is the case by attacking one of the limited uses of this evolution I provided which was using CS to set off combos. Because clearly that is the only use of the power under ARush... setting off Cryo Explosions or Fire Explosions.

Yes, because for reasons that should be obvious, CS is the only power that requires that particular evolution of AR. Anyone is welcome to take whatever bonus power they want, but if we're trying to determine the most effective soldier build (i.e. the point of the thread), then Fortification is it. So again, that evolution of AR is only useful for firing CS. Why would fire CS with AR active? To detonate combos.

With me so far?

capn233 wrote... 
You then imply that I think that CS combos were what made the evolution viable, including some more bs about how it was more difficult to set off Cryo and Fire Explosions on Insanity and ask about the question of this thread...

Not bs but you've already demonstrated that logic doesn't sway you so...

capn233 wrote...  
The fact of the matter is that here and elsewhere you have no interest in entertaining any other viewpoint than the one that you brought into the thread to begin with.

Because I do my homework. Again, you're welcome to point out where/how am I wrong or provide a superior argument of your own. Thus far you've done neither. You complain a lot and resort to name calling but mostly you just want your crappy opinion to be right. 

Sorry, a passive power that improves everything you do all the time is better than an active power that has limited usefulness sometimes. Significantly more so since that active power comes with a cooldown that keeps you from using other, more useful powers. I really don't care which active power you want to insert into that argument. This is a soldier build.

 

capn233 wrote...   
You also clutter it with irrelevant data and get upset when people don't pay attention to it. Like talking about how wonderful the Paladin is under Adrenaline Rush in a topic about the long range weapon on a Sentinel... and then jumping on my point about how "Throw" was the best tool for a Sentinel to use on large enemies and going on some side conversation about how other classes didn't have "Throw."

We can continue that discussion in that thread if you would like.

 

capn233 wrote...    
Hell some of the same odd logic is making it's way into this topic. Firing a power under ARush wastes a lot of firing time?

You'll have to draw my attention to the specific comment for context, but generally speaking, yes. Firing a power when you could be shooting a bullet is a waste of time. Especially if that power is CS which does a minimal amount of damage (which is more so the case on Insanity). 

Doesn't seem like rocket science.

capn233 wrote...    
Don't you ever have to switch targets?

Yes. Relevance?

capn233 wrote...     
Especially with the insane DPS your Paladin is putting out, I would imagine the targets are dropping so fast you are changing targets quite a bit.

Not really, because as I've stated before, i'm not using the Paladin on mooks. 

capn233 wrote...      
Can't fire a power in between targets at all?

On the contrary I am. Adrenaline Rush. 

capn233 wrote...       
I guess you are probably too busy firing in between targets to keep all that DPS going.

I suppose that is one way to do it. Another way might be switching cover, reloading, dodging out of the way of a charging Brute or Banshee, or taking a second for my shields to recharge before hitting AR again to kill the next thing I want dead. Is that a sufficient amount of other options to help you get your head out of your ass?

capn233 wrote...        
So I am reading your posts. Others are too. Hell, in the other thread Kronner, strive, and myself were all telling you the same thing but you were absolutely dismissive of any of our points. And it isn't any different here.

Which one of those was the guy that thought a 35% damage bonus from the weapon was lame but that that the 25% bonus from the extended barrel was the greatest thing ever? Was that the same guy or a different guy that thought high damage boss gun was useless because it was overpowered against non-bosses? And unfortunately I can't remember which person was the one that didn't get the point that a smaller clip size isn't a delta if you were killing things with fewer bullets. 

But don't worry, I definitely understand that I am the one with a logic problem. I get it now. Thanks. 

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 07:51 .

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...
 but if we're trying to determine the most effective soldier build (i.e. the point of the thread), then Fortification is it

Energy Drain, Slam, Reave are so much better bonus powers than Fortification it isn't even funny.

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner wrote...
Energy Drain 

 Only effect enemies with shields or barriers and synthetics. Is good for detonating Tech combos, however if used in conjunction with Shepard's disruptor ammo, the combo doesn't have to kill to detonate. Shapard already has two powers that will do this: Concussive Shot and Frag Grenade. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time whereas Fortification doesn't have any (unless you purge) 

Kronner wrote... 
Slam

Doesn't do any damage (but will kill husks one at a time). Crappy for detonating biotic combos because it detonates at the top of the lift, not at the point of impact. Doesn't work on enemies with protection. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 4 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

 

Kronner wrote...  
Reave

A damage over time power. I guess some people like to build a soldier and then sit around doing things other than firing their gun. Perhaps Shepard is getting a mani-pedi while waiting for Reave to kill his target.  But again ...*sigh*... Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

Was that post some sort of attempt at humor, Kronner?

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 08:05 .

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...
Energy Drain
Only effect enemies with shields or barriers and synthetics. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time whereas Fortification doesn't have any (unless you purge)
 

  

It can provide damage resistance and it does replenish your shields. 8s is the base cooldown, the actual cooldown is 3-4s on most builds.

Slam
Doesn't do any damage (but will kill husks one at a time). Crappy for detonating biotic combos because it detonates at the top of the lift, not at the point of impact. Doesn't work on enemies with protection. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 4 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

Affects multiple unshielded enemies, one shots them if evolved properly. Instacast power that can't be dodged. Great for biotic bombs. Virtually no cooldown.

 Reave
A damage over time power. I guess some people like to build a soldier and then sit around doing things other than firing their gun. Perhaps Shepard is getting a mani-pedi while waiting for Reave to kill his target.  But again ...*sigh*... Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

Reave DOES provide damage resistance, up to 40% iirc. It can affect multiple enemies, is instacast and detonates or sets up biotic bombs. 8s BASE cooldown, it is down to about 3-4s on most builds.


But you are once again too shortsighted to see it so enjoy your Fortification. 

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 08:13 .

[CoffeeHolic93]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

Kronner wrote...
Energy Drain
 

 Only effect enemies with shields or barriers and synthetics. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time whereas Fortification doesn't have any (unless you purge)

Kronner wrote... 
Slam

Doesn't do any damage (but will kill husks one at a time). Crappy for detonating biotic combos because it detonates at the top of the lift, not at the point of impact. Doesn't work on enemies with protection. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 4 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

 

Kronner wrote...  
Reave

A damage over time power. I guess some people like to build a soldier and then sit around doing things other than firing their gun. Perhaps Shepard is getting a mani-pedi while waiting for Reave to kill his target.  But again ...*sigh*... Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

Was that post some sort of attempt at humor, Kronner?

Energy drain stuns organics when it hits their health, it detonates tech explosions when they're low on health (or whenever if you use disruptor ammo), and the shields you get back can be with 15% additional damage resistance for a limited time.

Slam is an AOE power, and even if the detonation is slightly above the ground, it's still a massive AOE explosion that deals excellent damage. Excellent for crowd control. 

Also, enemies that are crowd controlled aren't firing bullets, so you won't need all that damage resistance.

As for reave... You've GOT to be joking. Even a level 1 reave increases your Damage resistance, which can be upgraded to 25% and 40%. It's easily spammable, it detonates Singularity, and I could go on.

Is this your attempt at humor? Most of your claims are poorly researched. 

[Dapper Chimp]

[quote]Kronner wrote...

[quote]Dapper Chimp wrote...
Energy Drain
Only effect enemies with shields or barriers and synthetics. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time whereas Fortification doesn't have any (unless you purge)
 [/quote]  

It can provide damage resistance and it does replenish your shields.
 [/quote]   
Provides 15% DR for 10 seconds. Instead of 15% for all the second. Or 20%. Or 25%. Or 30%.

Again, it only replenishes your shields if you use it on a target that has shields or barriers or is a synthetic.

So we have a power that has limited effectiveness against targets, offers inferior DR to the other power suggested, and doesn't offer any of the other "always on" benefits. Please help me understand why anyone should take this suggestion seriously.

[quote]Kronner wrote... 
[quote]Slam
Doesn't do any damage (but will kill husks one at a time). Crappy for detonating biotic combos because it detonates at the top of the lift, not at the point of impact. Doesn't work on enemies with protection. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 4 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) [/quote]

Affects multiple unshielded enemies, one shots them if evolved properly.
 [/quote] 
Sounds great. So limited usefulness against unshielded enemies. Again, I'm giving up DR and 20% bonuses to all of my weapons why? 

[quote]Kronner wrote...  [quote] Reave
A damage over time power. I guess some people like to build a soldier and then sit around doing things other than firing their gun. Perhaps Shepard is getting a mani-pedi while waiting for Reave to kill his target.  But again ...*sigh*... Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) [/quote]

Reave DOES provide damage resistance, up to 45% iirc. It can affect multiple enemies, is instacast and detonates or sets up biotic bombs. 8s BASE cooldown, it is down to about 3-4s on most builds.
[/quote] 40%, but close enough. So 40% DR for 8 seconds vs 20% and 20% damage bonus of all my powers for all the seconds. Clearly you picked a winner and I have no idea what I'm talking about. 

[quote]Kronner wrote... But you are once again too shortsighted to see it so enjoy your Fortification. [/quote] Ok, I'll try.

[quote]Mi-Chan wrote...

[quote]Dapper Chimp wrote...

[quote]Kronner wrote...
Energy Drain
 [/quote] Only effect enemies with shields or barriers and synthetics. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time whereas Fortification doesn't have any (unless you purge)

[quote]Kronner wrote... 
Slam[/quote] Doesn't do any damage (but will kill husks one at a time). Crappy for detonating biotic combos because it detonates at the top of the lift, not at the point of impact. Doesn't work on enemies with protection. Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 4 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

 [quote]Kronner wrote...  
Reave
[/quote] A damage over time power. I guess some people like to build a soldier and then sit around doing things other than firing their gun. Perhaps Shepard is getting a mani-pedi while waiting for Reave to kill his target.  But again ...*sigh*... Doesn't offer any damage resistance and doesn't increase the damage of ammo power, grenades, or CS. Comes with an 8 second cooldown time which is negligible however Fortification still has 0 (unless you purge) 

Was that post some sort of attempt at humor, Kronner?
[/quote]

 [quote]New guy wrote...   
Energy drain stuns organics when it hits their health, it detonates tech explosions when they're low on health (or whenever if you use disruptor ammo), and the shields you get back can be with 15% additional damage resistance for a limited time.[/quote] Ok, so you've given up permanent buffs and permanent DR for temporary DR and a third way to do something you already could. Shield restore benefit is extremely conditional.

 [quote]New guy wrote...   
Slam is an AOE power, and even if the detonation is slightly above the ground, it's still a massive AOE explosion that deals excellent damage. Excellent for crowd control. [/quote] Only detonates other biotic powers. Which means you now have to have a biotic in your party at all times. Which means you probably already had a means of detonating biotic combos. 

Something about "****** on a bull". 

 [quote]New guy wrote...   
Also, enemies that are crowd controlled aren't firing bullets, so you won't need all that damage resistance.[/quote] Right, because all the enemies in the game congregate in a 3m areas and stand there patiently waiting for me to incapacitate them. 

I'm wondering if anyone is thinking about what's actually happening in the game when they write this stuff. 

 [quote]New guy wrote...    
As for reave... You've GOT to be joking. Even a level 1 reave increases your Damage resistance, which can be upgraded to 25% and 40%. It's easily spammable, it detonates Singularity, and I could go on.[/quote] At level one it temporaily offers the same bonus you get permanently from Fortification. So far as spammable powers go, when playing as a soldier, I prefer that power to be Adrenaline Rush. And it detonates Singularity. I guess I just committed to taking Liara with me for every single mission (though I'm pretty sure it detonates other biotic powers too, but hopefully you get the point).

[quote]New guy wrote....
Is this your attempt at humor? Most of your claims are poorly researched. [/quote] uh. huh.

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 08:28 .

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

Provides 15% DR for 10 seconds. Instead of 15% for all the second. Or 20%. Or 25%. Or 30%.

Again, it only replenishes your shields if you use it on a target that has shields or barriers or is a synthetic.

So we have a power that has limited effectiveness against targets, offers inferior DR to the other power suggested, and doesn't offer any of the other "always on" benefits. Please help me understand why anyone should take this suggestion seriously.

 

It stuns non-shielded enemies. How is that "limited effectiveness"? DR is not worth it until you are at least around 40-50%. 

Sounds great. So limited usefulness against unshielded enemies. Again, I'm giving up DR and 20% bonuses to all of my weapons why? 

 

I already covered DR above. The 20% power damage merely increases the damage of your ammo powers. In the actual game, you will not notice that. I suppose it is useless to try and explain to you how that bonus is applied, so I won't bother.

 Reave
40%, but close enough. So 40% DR for 8 seconds vs 20% and 20% damage bonus of all my powers for all the seconds. Clearly you picked a winner and I have no idea what I'm talking about. 

Agreed with the bolded. 

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 08:26 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner, the more of your posts I read, the more I get the impression that if you were walking along and saw a $20 bill lying on the ground, you'd turn up your nose and ask someone to wake you when it was up to $50.

No, it's not just ammo powers. It's ammo powers, concussive shot, and frag grenade. In the actual game, I very much notice that Incendiary ammo is offering 51% against armor and health. That Disruptor is 25.5% against health and 112% against shields and barriers. You might not care about these things, but you're busy stacking biotic powers on weapons class and fashioning yourself an RPG genius.

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

Kronner, the more of your posts I read, the more I get the impression that if you were walking along and saw a $20 bill lying on the ground, you'd turn up your nose and ask someone to wake you when it was up to $50. 

 

No, I just realize that 20% DR is insignifcant on Insanity. 

Dapper Chimp wrote... 
No, it's not just ammo powers. It's ammo powers, concussive shot, and frag grenade. In the actual game, I very much notice that Incendiary ammo is offering 51% against armor and health. That Disruptor is 25.5% against health and 112% against shields and barriers. You might not care about these things, but you're busy stacking biotic powers on weapons class and fashioning yourself an RPG genius.

Concussive shot does ****** poor damage, so the extra bonus is just not relevant. Frag Grenade is good.

51% against armor, but guess how much did that Fortification bonus add? Not much. Same for Disruptor.

You might not care about properly understanding game mechanics, but then don't be surprised when people genereally do not agree with you in these threads. This is the Paladin vs. Carnifex argument all over again, you keep saying the same thing regardless of how many people debunk your argument(s). Oh well.

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 08:41 .

[CoffeeHolic93]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

Kronner, the more of your posts I read, the more I get the impression that if you were walking along and saw a $20 bill lying on the ground, you'd turn up your nose and ask someone to wake you when it was up to $50.

No, it's not just ammo powers. It's ammo powers, concussive shot, and frag grenade. In the actual game, I very much notice that Incendiary ammo is offering 51% against armor and health. That Disruptor is 25.5% against health and 112% against shields and barriers. You might not care about these things, but you're busy stacking biotic powers on weapons class and fashioning yourself an RPG genius.

Your analogy doesn't work. He isn't giving up $20 while hoping for $50, he's giving up $20 while getting $50.

Not only that, but the $20 are all pennies so they're heavy and slows him down(cooldown penalty), while the $50 is one bill that doesn't hamper him in any way shape or form.

Food for thought.

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner wrote...
No, I just realize that 20% DR is insignifcant on Insanity.

Because taking 100% damage is better how?

Kronner wrote... 
Concussive shot does ****** poor damage, so the extra bonus is just not relevant.

Right. Which is why the active power evolution of AR on Insanity is useless. Because the ******-poor flat damage makes it more difficult to detonate combos against enemies with larger hp pools. Please go have this talk with your buddy.

Kronner wrote...  
 Frag Grenade is good.

Yes it is.

Kronner wrote...  51% against armor, but guess how much did that Fortification bonus add? Not much. Same for Disruptor.

Umm...20% of it. The 20% power bonus from Fortication added 20% of it. *shakes head in disbelief*

And you forgot to include the "against health" part.

Kronner wrote...   You might not care about properly understanding game mechanics, but then don't be surprised when people genereally do not agree with you in these threads. This is the Paladin vs. Carnifex argument all over again, you keep saying the same thing regardless of how many people debunk your argument(s). Oh well.

No one has "debunked' my argument. You've offered crappy alternatives that don't make any sense. Your logic is inconsistent at best and non-existent at worst. 

If you really are done, then go away. 

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 08:56 .

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...
Because taking 100% damage is better how?

 

I never said it was better to take 100% damage. Just that 20% DR is insignificant buff.

 Right. Which is why the active power evolution of AR on Insanity is useless. Because the ******-poor flat damage makes it more difficult to detonate combos against enemies with larger hp pools. Please go have this talk with your buddy.

 

It's not useless. It may be useless for your build since you have no other active power besides CS, which sucks.

 Umm...20% of it. The 20% power bonus from Fortication added 20% of it. *shakes head in disbelief*

 

Keep shaking your head, but it does not change that fact that the 20% from Fortification is not flat bonus. Just check it out for yourself. Turn Fortification off and see how much damage your ammo powers do. I guarantee that it will not be 20% lower.

No one has "debunked' my argument. You've offered crappy alternatives that don't make any sense. Your logic is inconsistent at best and non-existent at worst. 

In your view, that may be true. Mainly due to your poor reading comprehension imho.

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner wrote...

Dapper Chimp wrote...
Because taking 100% damage is better how?

 
I never said it was better to take 100% damage. Just that 20% DR is insignificant buff.

  You can't have it both ways. Either 20% DR is helpful or it's not. Since the alternative is 0% DR, I can't see how the "not useful" argument is even on the table. 

Kronner wrote... 

 Right. Which is why the active power evolution of AR on Insanity is useless. Because the ******-poor flat damage makes it more difficult to detonate combos against enemies with larger hp pools. Please go have this talk with your buddy.

 

It's not useless. It may be useless for your build since you have no other active power besides CS, which sucks.

  RIght, because I have a passive power that significantly more beneficial than any active power you've trotted out for consideration. I think that means I win twice.

Kronner wrote...  

 Umm...20% of it. The 20% power bonus from Fortication added 20% of it. *shakes head in disbelief*

 

Keep shaking your head, but it does not change that fact that the 20% from Fortification is not flat bonus. Just check it out for yourself. Turn Fortification off and see how much damage your ammo powers do. I guarantee that it will not be 20% lower.

I never said it was a flat bonus. But 20% of the 51% comes from Fortication in my build. 51% > 45% the last time I checked. 

Kronner wrote...  
In your view, that may be true. Mainly due to your poor reading comprehension imho.

That's fine. Will you be leaving now?

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...
You can't have it both ways. Either 20% DR is helpful or it's not. Since the alternative is 0% DR, I can't see how the "not useful" argument is even on the table. 

  

Look up what "insignificant" means.

 RIght, because I have a passive power that significantly more beneficial than any active power you've trotted out for consideration. I think that means I win twice.

  

Significanlty more beneficial as in extra 6% damage on Incendiary ammo, a little bit more on Disruptor, extra 100+ damage on Frag grenade and a whopping 20% DR. Sure, that definitely beats all the CC powers I mentioned. Geez.

I never said it was a flat bonus. But 20% of the 51% comes from Fortication in my build. 51% > 45% the last time I checked. 

Exactly. So you actually gain a whopping 6% extra damage on your Incendiary ammo. Something you will not notice in the game.

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 09:44 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner wrote...

Dapper Chimp wrote...
You can't have it both ways. Either 20% DR is helpful or it's not. Since the alternative is 0% DR, I can't see how the "not useful" argument is even on the table. 

  
Look up what "insignificant" means.

I don't need to. I assume that my point stands?

Kronner wrote... 

 RIght, because I have a passive power that significantly more beneficial than any active power you've trotted out for consideration. I think that means I win twice.

  

Significanlty more beneficial as in extra 6% damage on Incendiary ammo, a little bit more on Disruptor, extra 100+ damage on Frag grenade and a whopping 20% DR. Sure, that definitely beats all the CC powers I mentioned. Geez.

Reave does ~750 points of damage over 8.2 seconds. One shot from an unmodded Paladin X with AR and my Incendiary ammo (and no other weapon damage bonuses) does 1200 damage in less than 1. It does almost double that in my build. 

Let me repeat that: Reave 91 dmg in 1 second. Paladin X with AR and Fire ammo: 1200 dmg in < 1 second.

Energy Drain only does damage against shields/barriers and Geth.

Slam doesn't do any damage at all. 

Go look up what "insignificant" means. 

Kronner wrote... 
Exactly. So you actually gain a whopping 6% extra damage on your Incendiary ammo. Something you will not notice in the game.

6% of 2500 x 6 rounds (that's 900 dmg for those of you playing at home)  isn't something I'll notice in game, but 750 damage over 8.2 seconds would be insane not to take? They both come with DR, but yours last for 8 seconds and mine last until the credits roll. While you're spamming Reave to keep your DR active, I'm spamming AR to kill things. Which of these strategies sounds more effective?

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[Kronner]

That's because those powers are CC, not direct damage. You can still fire 6 paladin shots AND CC enemies in one ARush if you want to. One biotic bomb > Paladin shot. Not even close.

And all those powers are instacast so they always hit. You miss one Paladin shot and you lose a ton of damage.

As for the DR, you do realize that since it lasts 8s (base), you can have it on permanently (as long as you are in combat and there are still enemies left)?

While you're spamming Reave to keep your DR active, I'm spamming AR to kill things. Which of these strategies sounds more effective?

 

I can spam both. At the same time.

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 10:37 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner wrote...
That's because those powers are CC, not direct damage. You can still fire 6 paladin shots AND CC enemies in one ARush if you want to. One biotic bomb > Paladin shot. Not even close.

Except that you now have to have one biotic squad member with you at all times. And they can't detonate their own biotics because you want to have a turn at playing some sort of soldier/biotic hybrid (I thought those were called "Vanguards"). And could do both, but why the hell would you? You're giving up 900 points instant damage (and permanent 20% DR) for 750 damage over 8.2 seconds. I can kill a lot of things faster in 8.2 seconds than Reave can. 

Kronner wrote... And all those powers are instacast so they always hit. You miss one Paladin shot and you lose a ton of damage.

Probably why I don't try to use my Paladin as a sniper rifle. AR comes with time dilation so that I can always hit too.

Kronner wrote... As for the DR, you do realize that since it lasts 8s (base), you can have it on permanently (as long as you are in combat and there are still enemies left)?

Yes. As long as I spam Reave I can have DR. But I also can't be spamming AR. You have to choose. Getting a permanent 20% from Fortification means I no longer have to pick.

Something about "effective" soldiers builds. 

[Kronner]

OMG You can use Reave/Slam/ED/whatever while ARush is active.

I am done arguing with you. You clearly do not understand the game's mechanics. 

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 10:55 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Dude, if having the ability to fire off biotic detonations is so great, either play as a biotic or always take one with you. You'd have to anyway in order to do what you're suggesting. Seriously. It's like Javik and Liara aren't capable of doing this unless Shepards there to hold their hands.

And let's make life very easy. I am going to bend over backwards to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that the DR and damage from Reave vs Fortification were roughly comparable. Even if that were still the case, you're giving up 250 shields to take a different evolution of AR which now requires you to lock in a party member and micro-manage another power. If you think that's good use of your time, then that's your business. I'd rather focus on shooting things (with my weapons-not-powers-based character).

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 03 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[Moofy76]

Panznerr wrote...

Working on a Insanity Soldier run with my level 30 shepard. Anyhow was curious what is the better evoultion of Adrenaline rush at rank 6? Also what should I max out after Adrenaline rush, Incendiary Ammo, Combat Mastery, and Fitness is done? Also thinking for Squadmates for the first half: Liara/Garrus and the 2nd half: Kaidan/Liara.

Hi OP,

I'm not gonna get into arguing with this lot (all the have decent things to say) but I'm doing about 3/4 playthrough on Soldier insanity ME2 import at the moment. and I'll tell you what I have found.

Adrenaline rush max evolution I'm playing around with now, I think the "free" offensive power is a good way to go. I don't worry about disruptor ammo (it's not as useful as ME2 imo), I just put incendiary ammo on 4a, 5a (I don't go for headshots all the time, the body is still good and you can fire a lot faster, you usually take down 1 target at a time with sniper, or 2 and can do that with body shots often). And when you do headshot without it you get kills mostly anyway. I'm pretty sure it's additive damage so not as huge as it sounds, headshot might do 200% damage so maybe 225%? So I just run with the extra ammo with 2 weapons, it's nice. 6b explosive burst, it's godly, play around with it at the shooting range, you'll see. Plus I like "fun" abilities.

Squadmates I put share cryo, it's awesome, they slow/freeze everything while you blow them up with indendiary evolution, you will smile a lot! haha.

Squadmates? take who you want! It doesn't reeeally matter but some combinations will work better. I just take who I like to play around with their abilities a bit, I do have liara a fir bit though. Geth missions I took tali and EDI though.

For bonus power and CS, I have CS amplification and it makes it half decent, I still think it should do good damage vs. something though. But free on a adrenaline rush is good!

Bonus power if you don't like CS much I guess energy drain or carnage, some type of protection thing would be nice, but not necessary. An attack free during adrenaline rush seems pretty good.

Modifié par Moofy76, 03 mai 2012 - 11:09 .

[Kronner]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

Dude, if having the ability to fire off biotic detonations is so great, either play as a biotic or always take one with you. You'd have to anyway in order to do what you're suggesting. Seriously. It's like Javik and Liara aren't capable of doing this unless Shepards there to hold their hands.

And let's make life very easy. I am going to bend over backwards to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that the DR and damage from Reave vs Fortification were roughly comparable. Even if that were still the case, you're giving up 250 shields to take a different evolution of AR which now requires you to lock in a party member and micro-manage another power. If you think that's good use of your time, then that's your business. I'd rather focus on shooting things (with my weapons-not-powers-based character).

I am not even using Reave on my Soldier. I did use Slam, then switched to Carnage. The original point you made is that Fortification bonus power = best/most effective Soldier. But it should be obvious that Soldier that can set up/detonate biotic bombs while in Adrenaline Rush mode is a lot more effective and quicker than Soldier that only shoots. Also, it should be clear that the most effective style of play requires optimal squadmates and smart use of their powers.

I think you are really overrating the bonuses Fortification gives you. Just like you overrated the extra Paladin damage over Carnifex in the other thread.

Modifié par Kronner, 03 mai 2012 - 11:26 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Kronner wrote...
The original point you made is that Fortification bonus power = best/most effective Soldier.

Because it gives bonuses to everything the soldier uses, plus DR and it doesn't have to be managed.

 

Kronner wrote... 
But it should be obvious that Soldier that can set up/detonate biotic bombs while in Adrenaline Rush mode is a lot more effective and quicker than Soldier that only shoots.

Except that's the not the case at all. Power combos for soldiers are gimped.

1) the inital power does not always apply (i.e. Cryo ammo doesn't always freeze)
2) unlike biotic combos, 2/3 for them have to kill to detonate

I can jump through 27 hoops to try to time things just right so that I get the pretty combo, or I can shoot one additonal bullet. 

If you do find yourself in a situation where the enemy is grouped just right to make a combo worth it (yet another condition) and the intial effect is applied, then use a grenade. Or have one of your squad mates detonate it. 

Aren't you about to make some comment about effective use of squad mates? Wait for it.

 

Kronner wrote...  
Also, it should be clear that the most effective style of play requires optimal squadmates and smart use of their powers.

Good advice. 

 

Kronner wrote...   
I think you are really overrating the bonuses Fortification gives you.

That's one possiblity. Another is that you are under-rating it. > 25% bonus to shields is not insignificant. 20% bonus to ammo powers and frag grenade is not insigificant. Heck, even the extra points on CS is nice when you're using it to strip shields or kill off husks without firing a shot. 20% DR is not insigificant. 

Giving up all these things so that I can occationally make a pretty explosion that may or may not hit other enemies for a scaled amount of damage seems like a very stupid trade off. Especially since it requires that I add extra conditions to my squad layout and that I micro-manage another power. 

Kronner wrote...    
Just like you overrated the extra Paladin damage over Carnifex in the other thread.

You're welcome to go on thinking that a 35% damage bonus is insigifincant. I think most reasonable people would disagree with you (and have). 

[RedCaesar97]

Damage Reduction is nice, but crowd-control is better. Or to put it another way: reducing the damage of incoming fire is nice, but stopping enemies from shooting at you is better.

And Dapper Chimp, if you are comparing the benefits of Reave to the benefits of Fortification, Reave wins every time. Reave gives you damage protection, staggers enemies (crowd control), and can both set up and detonate biotic explosions (crowd control and damage and usually instant-kills). Heck, a Soldier with Reave can probably play most of the game without firing a single shot.

Of the three shield powers--Fortification, Barrier, and Defense Matrix--Fortification is the worst. They all offer damage protection, but when they are purged, its their secondary abilities that set them apart. The extra melee damage of purging Fortification is almost pointless, lifting enemies when purging Barrier is good crowd control, and Defense Matrix can restore your shields when purged, actually giving you more damage protection than Fortification can. And I find that the damage protection is gives you largely negligible; The only time I have seen it work to any degree, is with Kronner's Honorary Krogan Vanguard build.

The ability to fire off a power under Adrenaline Rush is greater than the Shield restoration ability in my opinion, and I have tried both. Enemies can shoot the shields down before they can even come up. Besides, Adrenaline Rush slows down time around you (including weapon firing rate), so running when Adrenaline Rush is active is equally effective at reducing damage taken.

I am currently playing as a Claymore Soldier (Soldier with the only the Claymore shotgun). The shield restoration ability is largely negligible when I tested it. I saw it work a few times, but being able to fire off a power (such as Concussive Shot) was more useful, since it allowed me to stop incoming fire rather than reducing its damage.