[quote]RedCaesar97 wrote...
Who is saying that? Using squadmates to help detonate any biotic/tech/combat combo is preferable to doing it yourself. It is just easier with biotics since Liara and Javik have such ridiculously short coolowns.[/quote]It's the logic being used. Don't take Fortification because you can't detonate combos with it, but do take some other power that you can't detonate yourself.
It comes down to role play and trade offs. If you want to detonate biotic combos, play as a biotic class. Giving yourself the ability to do something your squad members already can at the cost of extra damage and damage protection seems like a silly trade off to me.
[quote]RedCaesar97 wrote...
Just math: I suspected that any +shield damage boost was based off the base shields. Is this with any +Shields armor bonuses? So 1150-900=250. So the +50% shields evolution adds 250 shields, meaning Shepard has 500 base shields. Interesting.[/quote]
Yep. Bring up the character screen at the very begining of the game and you'll see that Shep starts with 500 health and 500 shields. Any bonus is applied to this base amount.
Therefore, if Shep has 900 in shields but get's a 50% based bump from AR, then that's 1150. Again, I think a 27% boost is useful, especially if it has DR behind it.
[quote]RedCaesar97 wrote...
If you find Damage Reduction worth it, fine. I used Defense Matrix a few times and never noticed the difference in the damage protection. I lived or died in the exact same spots or situations regardless. The Shield Boost from purge helped more than the damage protection.[/quote]
I think part of the problem here is that people want to pick a part one part of Fortification or another. You have to look at the whole package.
If all Fortification did was 20% DR, I would agree that it's not a very smart choice.
But it's 20% DR. It's 20% additional damage with all your ammo powers. It's 20% additional damage with your Frag Grenade (which is helpful since supply is limited). It's 20% additional damage with your Concussive Shot (which is useful if you take the ammo powers applied evolution and spam CS to drop sheilds and barriers from behind cover then pop out to shoot after defenses are dropped).
And you don't have to manage any of it. Just turn it on and forget you have it.
[quote]RedCaesar97 wrote...
Assuming that power damage bonuses apply to ammo powers (not sure that they do), they do not save you that much time, at least time that you would notice.[/quote] They absolutely do apply. Unfortuantely the power bonuses from armor do not apply to ammo, but the power bonus from Fortification absolutely does.
Against weaker enemies such as husks, you're absolutely right. Against stronger enemies you're absolutely wrong. And the area in between, you might not be saving a significant amount of time, but you are saving ammo too.
Would you rather use 5 shots or 4 shots to drop the shields of an enemy that is trying to flank you? 5 shots or 4 shots to strip an Engineer of his shields before he can set down a turret? If you don't think these little time savers are helpful, then that's your business.
[quote]RedCaesar97 wrote...If you feels it helps you, great. I just find that any power damage increase ammo powers provide is hardly noticeable. I do notice the crowd-control aspects of Inferno, Cryo, and Disruptor Ammo, which is the best reason to use them in my opinion.[/quote] *shrugs* I don't know how else to point out that the Soldier is not a crowd control class. I get that he can be, but you get there at the expense of making him even better at what he is supposed to be doing.
The difference between 30% and 36% or 45% and 51% might not seem like much but plug those percentages into some calculations with actual weapon damage figures and do the math. Like I said earlier, that 6% difference is 900 dmg coming out the barrel of a Paladin over the course of one clip. Very helpful against multiple armored bad things with one-hit kill capabilities.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
Where you keep getting hung up is this notion that CS is the only power that you can fire under ARush, which isn't remotely true.[/quote] That's not the case at all. I'm absolute aware that you can take other bonus powers and use them with AR. I'm arguing that doing so is silly.
I hope that helps to clarify.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
Sure if you take Fortification it is now the only offensive power you can use. I would still run it because I can actually appreciate the benefits of setting off Tech Bursts and staggering enemies under Adrenaline Rush compared to a token percentage of base shields being added.[/quote] And as I've stated many times, I agree, however I think doing so is more helpful on lower difficulties. On this point, I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying I think the shield bump with the DR behind it is a little more beneficial.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
You have also dismissed damage reduction and or shield restoration from powers like Energy Drain or Reave as not being useful because they aren't on all the time.[/quote] Not quite accurate. I'm not saying they aren't useful. I'm saying that something that is on all the time and doesn't have to be managed (at the expense of other powers that do more damage) is better than something that isn't and does.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
That's quite a strange argument for a variety of reasons. First, your bonus shields that you love aren't on all the time.[/quote] You're right, they aren't, but they are active when AR is. I can have AR active pretty much all the time though.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
Secondly, although Fortification gives you a permanent damage reduction, it also increases cooldown times, which in turn reduces the amount of time you are in Adrenaline Rush.[/quote] I acknowledge this in my build. I have a 4 second cooldown for AR and 2.11 second cooldown for CS. In exchange for the additional 0.3 seconds I have to wait, I get permanent 20% DR. Permanent 20% boost to all my ammo powers. Permanent 20% boost to Frag Grenade. Permanent 20% boost to CS. I consider this a very reasonable trade off.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
Lastly, any time you are facing practically any enemy type you have the potential to use Energy Drain to refill shields, stun enemies, set off tech bursts, and give you damage reduction.[/quote] Refill shields only works if the enemy is shielded, stun is nice but I can get the same thing with Distrupor ammo, setting off tech burst is something I can do with CS and/or squad member's powers, and permanent DR already comes with the thing I'm giving up to have Energy Drain instead.
Would it help if I couched the argument this way: yes, Energy Drain is useful, but less so than Fortification.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
I don't understand your odd point about the squad. Everyone that has been advocating power use under Adrenaline Rush believes you should be using your squad to maximize your effectiveness. Nobody at all claimed that you could only use them for biotics. The issue is using them. The power evolution allows you to use them more efficiently to set up or detonate more combos. You can't do any combos whatsoever with your choice in ARush evolution except set them up via ammo power. Or using a grenade, which I can do with the other evolution on top of using my other power. Again, offensive power use allows you to detonate them and set them up with ammo powers, CS, Energy Drain, Reave, Dark Channel, Slam, Carnage, or Proximity Mine. More combos and more CC... how is that not useful?[/quote]
1) Because I don't have to take an offensive power to do these things. Granted I may be able to do them more often if I do, but non-biotic power combos don't impress me.
2) Because I can already set up or detonate combos with ammo powers. Granted, not as consistently as I can with an offensive power, but I'm ok with that because I acknowledge that the soldier is a weapons class, not a powers class. In other words, I don't try to use a butter knife for a screwdriver and say it's great.
3) Because combat power combos aren't as awesome as everyone makes them out to be. Even when they aren't difficult to set or detonate, they're only helpful if there are other enemies nearby. Sometimes this is the case, but often times it is not. I don't see the point in giving up all benefits that come with Fortification so that I can more consistently set off combos that damage 1 additional enemy.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
If you want to try to change the discussion from "most effective build" to the best pure build, that is another matter entirely.[/quote] I don't think that needs to be a separate discussion at all.
[quote]capn233 wrote...
I would probably end up going with Carnage in that case and using it as my offensive power under Adrenaline Rush. Or you could go fudge it a little and go Proximity Mine (which with 20% more damage taken is an amazing power).[/quote]Carnage might be worth it on a shotgun based soldier. Proximity Mine might be a good choice too for a build more focused on power combos (similar damage to grenade without the scarcity).
Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 04 mai 2012 - 12:00 .
doesn't result in a cooldown period during which I can't be using Adrenaline Rush.
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