147 réponses à ce sujet

[Iodine]

a ViciousFerret wrote...

Also I want to see some numbers on Bleed vs Explosive. I find it hard to believe that bleed is better, and if it is, if it is more practical.

I did a stupid amount of DPS calculations for it in some other thread a few weeks ago, then accidentally hit a "Back" keyboard shortcut and lost it all. From what I remember, the DPS is just barely higher for Bleed (something like 487 vs. 472 for those first 3 seconds), and each additional stacking adds something like 69.6 DPS if you recast the Bleed version every 3 seconds (was assuming a cooldown of about 3 seconds, though most people will probably be closer to something like 3.2-3.5 with Blade Armor), to a maximum of 4 stacked at once (after which the first DoT expires). It's not a huge difference per 3 seconds, unless you are stacking at least 3-4 on some major enemy before it dies. If I recall correctly, BB is the same as most other DoT stuff like Kishock, where it's 80% damage instantly, then the remaining 20% over the duration of the DoT.

Note that I am no mathlete, so those numbers may have been wrong in the first place, but I'm reasonably certain I did get the calculations correct for the stacking of DoT after a few attempts. Still, wouldn't hurt to have someone else more competent go through and do it

Edit: And even so, I'm always of the opinion that staggers are one of the most important survivability tools on any character, whether it's BB+Explosive's 2 staggers, or Pull on a shielded hunter, or whatever. So I always always take Explosive for BB for that second stagger per cast. The extra DPS from stacking Bleed is nice to have for stacking on major enemies, but just about everyone already focuses their builds on killing major enemies and largely ignore the mooks that so frequently kill them. :V

Edit2: Forgot to note that (if I'm remembering correctly) the DPS numbers I got were assuming only hitting one target, Explosive having the Cone upgrade, D&B using pure damage (no Cone). That was why I originally checked it out (seemed like Explosive's ~470 damage every 3 seconds would trump D&B's 320 or whatever damage every 15 seconds), but D&B does still have an advantage and requires less constant firing of BB to maintain, and increases notably if able to stack it. D&B with Cone would still be rather close to Explosive+Cone's DPS, and maintain the stackability.

Modifié par Iodine, 30 avril 2012 - 08:41 .

[El-Destructo]

Its a hard choice honestly between damage and bleed vs. explosion.
On paper the damage and bleed is generally better, but in some situations the explosive is just beastly.
When you've got a tightly packed group of enemies, the explosion damage just stacks up through the roof incredibly quickly, and the extra staggering can free allies (and even yourself) from sync kills and buy you more time.
And the best part about the explosive is that it is just so satisfying. XD

[Wesus]

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=m48N8oMwqN8

This is the batarian punch

[Whufpack]

Thanks for posting.

[Geist.H]

If you use the Falcon on the Batarian Soldier going for pure damage works out really well since you don't need the extra CC. Your melee will be weaker, but the Falcon sets up melee kills better than any weapon. Even against Phantoms you can just chain stagger and finish them off with a punch.

Indeed, I'm going to add the Falcon for the Grenadier spec, don't know why I forgot it since I use it myself. The Falcon always provides anyway, no matter the class !

[Geist.H]

I did a stupid amount of DPS calculations for it in some other thread a few weeks ago, then accidentally hit a "Back" keyboard shortcut and lost it all. From what I remember, the DPS is just barely higher for Bleed (something like 487 vs. 472 for those first 3 seconds), and each additional stacking adds something like 69.6 DPS if you recast the Bleed version every 3 seconds (was assuming a cooldown of about 3 seconds, though most people will probably be closer to something like 3.2-3.5 with Blade Armor), to a maximum of 4 stacked at once (after which the first DoT expires). It's not a huge difference per 3 seconds, unless you are stacking at least 3-4 on some major enemy before it dies. If I recall correctly, BB is the same as most other DoT stuff like Kishock, where it's 80% damage instantly, then the remaining 20% over the duration of the DoT.

Note that I am no mathlete, so those numbers may have been wrong in the first place, but I'm reasonably certain I did get the calculations correct for the stacking of DoT after a few attempts. Still, wouldn't hurt to have someone else more competent go through and do it

Edit: And even so, I'm always of the opinion that staggers are one of the most important survivability tools on any character, whether it's BB+Explosive's 2 staggers, or Pull on a shielded hunter, or whatever. So I always always take Explosive for BB for that second stagger per cast. The extra DPS from stacking Bleed is nice to have for stacking on major enemies, but just about everyone already focuses their builds on killing major enemies and largely ignore the mooks that so frequently kill them. :V

Here is what I experience ingame:

Explosion = BB, hit with melee once, explosion kills.
Damage&Bleed = BB, hit with melee once to kill.

Cluster of lesser foes with Explosion = BB, weapon melee swipe, explosion kills all.
Clusters of lesser foe with D&B = BB, weapon melee swipe = all dead.

D&B kills faster and you don't really need the explosion to finish them off, it might be better against Pyro Clusters however. I rarely find myself needing the extra CC, stuff dies to fast, against "tough" cluster I throw a grenade just to make sure and with low cooldown I can just reapply BB before they recover.

The difference is really small, it boils down to preference really.

Woops double post.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 avril 2012 - 08:03 .

[Iodine]

I'm probably pretty biased, just because I've become so used to Explosive's second stagger. Whenever I try out D&B on alternate builds, I keep planning for/expecting that second stagger after 3 seconds which doesn't come and this sometimes gets me killed.

I'm not at all saying D&B isn't a perfectly viable option with its own pros (and cons), just that Explosive's second stagger can be a huge boost for a melee-oriented Batarian soldier. To each their own.

Edit: And if Batarian soldiers had other skills to cast, I'd most likely take D&B. But since it's just BB and cooldown-less grenades, I like to keep that steady stream of staggers, damage, and explosions going. Also, I'm pretty sure I remember correctly that the max targets stuck with blades per cast is 3, so while that DPS difference multiplies, it only goes so high.

Modifié par Iodine, 30 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[a ViciousFerret]

What's your take on Health vs Melee in Fitness?

I'll respec my Batarian today, but I want to change something more than just D&B vs Explosion.

edit: Specifically on Fitness 6, can't decide between the two.

Modifié par a ViciousFerret, 30 avril 2012 - 08:12 .

[Geist.H]

What's your take on Health vs Melee in Fitness?

I'll respec my Batarian today, but I want to change something more than just D&B vs Explosion.

As indicated, go hybrid.

Fitness with Melee > shield recovery > Shield&health.

1125hp & 1125 shield with 95% melee bonus with Blade Armor and Bayonet.

It takes two rockets to strip your shield with Cyclonic modulator, which you recover hella fast with 30% faster recovery. My Brotarian spearheads the fights, duel with phantoms and Falcon Punch dying bosses without problem with this build, 5% damage protection and 200less overall life points really don't matter that much.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 avril 2012 - 08:14 .

[a ViciousFerret]

I assume Blade Armor and the Bayonet on my Claymore will cover the 30% melee boost I would have had.

Thanks for answering my questions, I am going to try this now.

[MysticH]

Great thread. Good reasoning to support your branch choices.

I'll have to try this later when I go online. Frankly, I've been ignoring the Batarian characters, and I should be ashamed of myself

[L. Han]

"Swing that gun baby!"

I love the batarian's melee. It's amusing.


P.S. Great builds thanks.

[Geist.H]

I assume Blade Armor and the Bayonet on my Claymore will cover the 30% melee boost I would have had.

Thanks for answering my questions, I am going to try this now.

I first ran full tanky fitness, so 65% melee bonus, with 95% the damage increase is very noticable and allows you to pummel trashmobs effortlessly and ensure that you are insta killing phantoms once their barrier is weakened, I really really recommend it.

[a ViciousFerret]

Just realized you didn't take Cone upgrade... Any reason for that?

[Iodine]

General "think outside the box" advice for the new Batarians:
Melee's tracking is your roll. Staggers and melee's DR are your cover.

Use melee with its ridiculous tracking to pull yourself into cover/out of danger, or to avoid staggers/stuns or high damage (if possible). Avoid getting stagger-locked - it's a pretty major threat to you, similar to on Krogans.

[No Snakes Alive]

I'm truly disappointed that you'd neglect to mention the shotgun which shoots spikes as an optimal weapon for the class that... shoots spikes. Graal > GPS, ESPECIALLY on a Batarian.

Other than that, you number crunchers make me sick. I appreciate the effort you put into your guides but find a lot of your know-it-all uninformed. I'll just touch on Explosion vs Damage & Bleed because it's pretty moot: either one is killing them within a couple of seconds, but one has everyone left standing around you explode in a brilliant shower of guts, so I'll let everyone make their own decision.

Plus in order for D&B to compare to Explode, you need to take the first damage perk over Cone, which... LOL. See this is where number crunching can only get you so far. Yes you're insta-mirking enemies better than I am with my staggers and explosions, but you forget to factor in how many millions upon millions of extra enemies I'm staggering, exploding and killing with Cone. Literally millions each B-Blades blast. Literally.

It's a matter of insta-killing four enemies in one blast (or, on Gold, killing them like... less than a second before you'd have them explode into a fountain of gore anyway), or locking down and killing FIVE HUNDRED enemies in one blast.

Fountain. Of. Gore.

No, seriously though. Cone is retarded broken and let's you hit just about everyone and their mama, so the overall damage you're getting ends up being more. Lots more. And if you're taking Cone over the first Damage there's no point in Damage & Bleed.

Thus I conclude my case with this reminder: millions of enemies, fountain of guts.

Thank you.

[Geist.H]

Just realized you didn't take Cone upgrade... Any reason for that?

Aiming well > cone upgrade,

But mainly, Ballistic Blade has the highest base damage of all offensive kills, I see little reason not to capitalize on it, troopers are left with 2 puny health bar once my BB landed, I can just smack them or forget about them as bleeding does its work.

All shielded enemies die with a single melee combo after such a treatment... Go for Damages =)

Use melee with its ridiculous tracking to pull yourself into cover/out of danger, or to avoid staggers/stuns or high damage (if possible). Avoid getting stagger-locked - it's a pretty major threat to you, similar to on Krogans.

Staggers are THE threat for Batarian, just like Krogans, that is to say: frontal rockets, prime shots, hunter blasts, husk grab and phantom melee if they strike first.

No, seriously though. Cone is retarded broken and let's you hit just about everyone and their mama, so the overall damage you're getting ends up being more. Lots more. And if you're taking Cone over the first Damage there's no point in Damage & Bleed.

Thus I conclude my case with this reminder: millions of enemies, fountain of guts.

Thank you.

I'm gonna test it out, got 3 respec cards anyway =D, thank you. Concerning the Graal, I just don't like it so I forgot about it so I will fix my mistake and add it. If I understood, cone perk increases the number of targets you can hit or just extend the spread cone ?

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 avril 2012 - 08:36 .

[heybigmoney]

Cone is way better and completely broken. You can hit ppl behind you with it for crying out loud.

[Geist.H]

Cone is way better and completely broken. You can hit ppl behind you with it for crying out loud.

That does indeed tip the balance off, I will have to see for myself !

[Scalabrine]

From what i see from those builds you don't like to play up close.

Good builds but i'll always put explosive blade.

[BanditGR]

Cone is currently bugged and will hit everything in a 360 degrees. You can test it out however you like. At the moment, it's a no brainer. As for explosion versus bleed, it depends on the situation. I personally went for explosion due to its aoe function, plus the fact that when I'm trying to revive a teammate surrounded by troops in close proximity, I need them to die as fast as possible, instead of bleeding to death.

As for tank (full shields and damage reduction) versus melee, again it's more of a personal preference thing. Both builds are viable, though people should be careful when meleeing huge enemies on Gold. Always flank, hit from behind for guaranteed and 'safe' results.

Weapon loadout : Graal, GPS, Claymore, it all works fine. Again it's mostly up to the individual. Carnifex/Paladin also works miracles.

[Geist.H]

Cone is currently bugged and will hit everything in a 360 degrees. You can test it out however you like. At the moment, it's a no brainer. As for explosion versus bleed, it depends on the situation. I personally went for explosion due to its aoe function, plus the fact that when I'm trying to revive a teammate surrounded by troops in close proximity, I need them to die as fast as possible, instead of bleeding to death.

As for tank (full shields and damage reduction) versus melee, again it's more of a personal preference thing. Both builds are viable, though people should be careful when meleeing huge enemies on Gold. Always flank, hit from behind for guaranteed and 'safe' results.

I didn't expect this ability to be bugged, but with the amount of feedback this thread is currently receiving, it does sound like it is a no-brainer. Explosion also becomes better.

From what i see from those builds you don't like to play up close.

Going Leroy jenkins into Pyro clusters from the flank with BB > IG > finish with melee weapon smite and headshot the first enemy trying to retaliate / Falcon Punching Atlases is not playing close and personal for you ?

[Iodine]

Cone is quite broken currently, not entirely sure how. coneangle is set to 90 base, 20 bonus. Maximum targets impacted is 3, maxprojectilesstuck = 3. Not sure about this, but each explosion is likely also limited to hitting 3 targets, but the explosion radius is only 0.5m so it's not a huge deal.

Extra rambling info I inadvertently typed out for some reason: The way the skill is set up, it is "impacting" centered on you (i.e. think of Justicar's Bubble, whose impact radius=3.0m base), and has an impact radius of 12m base (18m with r5 range upgrade). So it could either be that it's not limiting itself to 20 degrees correctly, or perhaps it's accidentally set to subtract a cone angle instead of add it, or some other cause/problem entirely.

Modifié par Iodine, 30 avril 2012 - 08:58 .

[RamsenC]

If you have are willing to throw a respec card on a suggestion check out this build.

http://narida.pytalh...es/#14PFMFM@0@0

Missing the 15% power boost is rough, but you get a lot of other options for it.

Modifié par RamsenC, 30 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

[Ravennus]

Geist.H wrote...

Cone is way better and completely broken. You can hit ppl behind you with it for crying out loud.

That does indeed tip the balance off, I will have to see for myself !

Yup, this is true in my experience.  I was actually really surprised the first few times something exploded BEHIND me in a shower of gore, that I didn't even realize was even there when I shot BBs.


The other interesting fact, regarding Ballistic Blade damage.... is that it is heavily effected by distance.
Those huge gigantic damage numbers you see in the power window are only for near point-blank shots.  The damage drops off dramatically the farther the enemies are from you when you trigger BB.


Combine all that, and it's why I personally take Cone/Range/Explosion.
But wait... didn't I just say that higher range means less damage from BB?  Yup! EXCEPT for the explosion damage.
That's always full damage, no matter how close or far you are from the target.


So I end up with a 360 degree shotgun that shoots out explody blades of staggering death out to 18m.

That's how I use BBs.... not for damage (even though that is still good), but for the insane crowd control it offers.
Oh, and for the goresplosions.  Those are nice too.