261 réponses à ce sujet

[luchozuca]

There were many autoscripted moments that really disgusted me, specially with Ashley's character.
But the most annoying of them all has to be the Starbrat conversation, when you never ever get the choice of telling him to shove his logic down his throat and let the galaxy stand up for themselves, i'm pretty sure my Shepard, MYSELF would have done that when presented with that feeble argument of "synthetics kill organics because that's how it is"
Of the three games on the series ME3 is the one i had the more moments of "that's not what my Shepard would say/do"

[AdamJenson]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Demoiselle wrote...

Tali. Rannoch.

I did not care about her getting a home. I really didn't.

And the sad thing is that if my Shep didn't AUTOMATICLLY spend the Rannoch Arch comforting, praising and joking with her I probably would have cared. She had realistic and likeable charachter development but I wanted the freakin OPTION to not be best friends.

I'm a dedicated Tali fan, and I completely agree with you. In ME1, we could be friendly, professional, or dismissive/rude/abusive to anyone on the team. We should have retained that freedom to shape our characters. This is the exact reason Liara gets so much scorn these days - people wouldn't complain as much about the plot armor if they weren't forced to be borderline romantic with her. Friendly/supportive/romantic should all be there, but it should be a choice. That's what gives it meaning.

As far as Liara goes, is the ME3 way of being bestest buds with her (if you don't LI her) really much different than what goes down in ME1?  What I mean is the scene where you have to choose between Ash and Liara...doesn't that occur no matter how you treat Liara?  I actually don't know because even when I wanted to go with Ash and didn't really do any flirting with Liara (just chatting her up all friendly) I ALWAYS got that confrontation scene.  It was immersion breaking for me then too because I'd think, "Why is this happening?  I didn't even give Liara any hint of romantic interest yet here I have to make that final choice." Though it isn't really so final as you can go on to get into Liara in LotSB and it doesn't then have any follow-on into ME3 and it doesn't really affect the Ash relationship either.  A freebie.

Modifié par AdamJenson, 07 juin 2012 - 02:28 .

[WarpedDog]

The thread is revived! Good, because I found even more outstanding immersion breakers.
- As already mentioned, "STEEEVE!!!" and then the utterly bored "You sure?". I facepalmed at that point.
- Also, the dialogue at the beginning. "This isn't about strategy or tactics"? "We fight or we die"? Are you fracking serious?! The Powerpuff Girls are easier to take serious than this.
- Mars. Wait, James! Liara can go to the shuttle! Are you even listening to me?! Oh, frack it.
- Every time someone says "You must take me along for this mission". No, Liara, you're not coming along to Thessia. No, EDI, I wont bring you along for Chronos Station. No, Liara, I'm going to Eden Prime with Garrus and James! Go back to your hacker cave.

[AdamJenson]

WarpedDog wrote...

The thread is revived! Good, because I found even more outstanding immersion breakers.
- As already mentioned, "STEEEVE!!!" and then the utterly bored "You sure?". I facepalmed at that point.
- Also, the dialogue at the beginning. "This isn't about strategy or tactics"? "We fight or we die"? Are you fracking serious?! The Powerpuff Girls are easier to take serious than this.
- Mars. Wait, James! Liara can go to the shuttle! Are you even listening to me?! Oh, frack it.
- Every time someone says "You must take me along for this mission". No, Liara, you're not coming along to Thessia. No, EDI, I wont bring you along for Chronos Station. No, Liara, I'm going to Eden Prime with Garrus and James! Go back to your hacker cave.

Be fair.  The whole "STEEEEEVE" and "You sure?" thing is Shepard imitating Stephen Colbert.  That is a PERFECT Stephen Colbert line.  Everyone loves Colbert, even the right wingnuts he makes fun of (even though they are incapable of understanding this simple satire at their expense...it's a rightwing thing).

"It isn't about strategy or tactics"...yeah, that is one of those things that make one go, "WTF?  What does THAT mean?  It is ALWAYS about strategy or tactics unless you are truly advising abject pants-on-fire panic.  Perhaps Shepard should simply have said, "RUN AND HIDE!"

[WarpedDog]

AdamJenson wrote...

WarpedDog wrote...

The thread is revived! Good, because I found even more outstanding immersion breakers.
- As already mentioned, "STEEEVE!!!" and then the utterly bored "You sure?". I facepalmed at that point.
- Also, the dialogue at the beginning. "This isn't about strategy or tactics"? "We fight or we die"? Are you fracking serious?! The Powerpuff Girls are easier to take serious than this.
- Mars. Wait, James! Liara can go to the shuttle! Are you even listening to me?! Oh, frack it.
- Every time someone says "You must take me along for this mission". No, Liara, you're not coming along to Thessia. No, EDI, I wont bring you along for Chronos Station. No, Liara, I'm going to Eden Prime with Garrus and James! Go back to your hacker cave.

Be fair.  The whole "STEEEEEVE" and "You sure?" thing is Shepard imitating Stephen Colbert.  That is a PERFECT Stephen Colbert line.  Everyone loves Colbert, even the right wingnuts he makes fun of (even though they are incapable of understanding this simple satire at their expense...it's a rightwing thing).

"It isn't about strategy or tactics"...yeah, that is one of those things that make one go, "WTF?  What does THAT mean?  It is ALWAYS about strategy or tactics unless you are truly advising abject pants-on-fire panic.  Perhaps Shepard should simply have said, "RUN AND HIDE!"

I'm austrian, not american, so how would I know about some guy named Stephen Colbert? Oh, well.

[AdamJenson]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

What I mean is the scene where you have to choose between Ash and Liara...doesn't that occur no matter how you treat Liara?

No; I always manage to go through ME1 avoiding any romance at all. The scene thus obviously never comes up.

OK, but what if you romance one but not the other.  Does not the scene develop anyway?

[AdamJenson]

WarpedDog wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

WarpedDog wrote...

The thread is revived! Good, because I found even more outstanding immersion breakers.
- As already mentioned, "STEEEVE!!!" and then the utterly bored "You sure?". I facepalmed at that point.
- Also, the dialogue at the beginning. "This isn't about strategy or tactics"? "We fight or we die"? Are you fracking serious?! The Powerpuff Girls are easier to take serious than this.
- Mars. Wait, James! Liara can go to the shuttle! Are you even listening to me?! Oh, frack it.
- Every time someone says "You must take me along for this mission". No, Liara, you're not coming along to Thessia. No, EDI, I wont bring you along for Chronos Station. No, Liara, I'm going to Eden Prime with Garrus and James! Go back to your hacker cave.

Be fair.  The whole "STEEEEEVE" and "You sure?" thing is Shepard imitating Stephen Colbert.  That is a PERFECT Stephen Colbert line.  Everyone loves Colbert, even the right wingnuts he makes fun of (even though they are incapable of understanding this simple satire at their expense...it's a rightwing thing).

"It isn't about strategy or tactics"...yeah, that is one of those things that make one go, "WTF?  What does THAT mean?  It is ALWAYS about strategy or tactics unless you are truly advising abject pants-on-fire panic.  Perhaps Shepard should simply have said, "RUN AND HIDE!"

I'm austrian, not american, so how would I know about some guy named Stephen Colbert? Oh, well.

Bioware isn't an Austrian company.  They certainly know who Colbert is (particularly since Colbert is Canadian).

[AdamJenson]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

What I mean is the scene where you have to choose between Ash and Liara...doesn't that occur no matter how you treat Liara?

No; I always manage to go through ME1 avoiding any romance at all. The scene thus obviously never comes up.

OK, but what if you romance one but not the other.  Does not the scene develop anyway?

I'm fairly sure it doesn't.

So...to avoid the confrontation you romance one but have to be a total dick to the other?  No mere being a decent person?  No mere being a decent commander who concerns himself with his crew/subordinates? 

[WarpedDog]

AdamJenson wrote...
Bioware isn't an Austrian company.  They certainly know who Colbert is (particularly since Colbert is Canadian).

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that until now I didn't even know Colbert, making the joke impossible to detect. 

[dpMeggers]

AdamJenson wrote...

Bioware isn't an Austrian company.  They certainly know who Colbert is (particularly since Colbert is Canadian).

Much as we'd love to claim him, he isn't. He was born in Washington, D.C. and grew up in South Carolina.

[AdamJenson]

WarpedDog wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...
Bioware isn't an Austrian company.  They certainly know who Colbert is (particularly since Colbert is Canadian).

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that until now I didn't even know Colbert, making the joke impossible to detect. 

Well, I was actually taking a dig at it via Colbert.  It really IS in perfect character for Colbert - totally inappropriate for ME.  In fact, I can actually HEAR Colbert doing those lines quite clearly in my head.  

Maybe Colbert should have been the VA for male Shepard...

[AdamJenson]

dpMeggers wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Bioware isn't an Austrian company.  They certainly know who Colbert is (particularly since Colbert is Canadian).

Much as we'd love to claim him, he isn't. He was born in Washington, D.C. and grew up in South Carolina.

WHAT?!  I would swear he was Canadian!  All the best actors and comedians these days seem to be Canadian.  Or Australian...particularly the hottest women.

Modifié par AdamJenson, 07 juin 2012 - 03:09 .

[dpMeggers]

AdamJenson wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

What I mean is the scene where you have to choose between Ash and Liara...doesn't that occur no matter how you treat Liara?

No; I always manage to go through ME1 avoiding any romance at all. The scene thus obviously never comes up.

OK, but what if you romance one but not the other.  Does not the scene develop anyway?

I'm fairly sure it doesn't.

So...to avoid the confrontation you romance one but have to be a total dick to the other?  No mere being a decent person?  No mere being a decent commander who concerns himself with his crew/subordinates? 

I'm fairly certain in ME1 if you talk to Liara enough she'll mention "oh you're very close to Chief Williams/Lieutenant Alenko" and you can say "yes I have feelings for her/him" and then she says "but there are also feelings between us, no?" and you can say "no we're just friends." (paraphrasing)

But you have to talk to Liara enough first.

[JamieCOTC]

The femshep & James flirting didn't bother me that much as I took it as a game of chicken that James had no chance in hell of winning. (Which is unfortunate for those who wanted to romance him).

The conversation w/ the GhostKid takes the cake, but I almost feel it should be separate as it's mostly what Shepard DOES NOT say that bugs me. Aside from that, "We fight or we die" is pretty bad. It sounds like a tagline for a trailer rather than an actual sound strategy.

I sometimes wonder if BW really understands what they have done w/ the character of Shepard. The choices in both dialogue and actions we make for Shepard can become very personal. In this respect the shear amount of autodialogue in ME3 cheapens the experience of the game.

[DeinonSlayer]

AdamJenson wrote...

As far as Liara goes, is the ME3 way of being bestest buds with her (if you don't LI her) really much different than what goes down in ME1?  What I mean is the scene where you have to choose between Ash and Liara...doesn't that occur no matter how you treat Liara?  I actually don't know because even when I wanted to go with Ash and didn't really do any flirting with Liara (just chatting her up all friendly) I ALWAYS got that confrontation scene.  It was immersion breaking for me then too because I'd think, "Why is this happening?  I didn't even give Liara any hint of romantic interest yet here I have to make that final choice." Though it isn't really so final as you can go on to get into Liara in LotSB and it doesn't then have any follow-on into ME3 and it doesn't really affect the Ash relationship either.  A freebie.

You can avoid romancing either or both of them in ME1. In the conversation with Ashley where she asks if Garrus and Wrex should have full access to the ship, choose the "You're out of line!" dialogue option. You'll establish that you are her superior officer, and the romance arc ends on friendly terms. Same with Liara - choose "I just want to be friends" in your second conversation with her and the romance arc ends. The ruder rejection is glitched to lock in the romance with her.

The writing team's love affair with Liara only really began to show itself in ME2. Never mind the jarring "Flay you with my mind" introduction, never mind that she's apparently been busy becoming her mother for the last two years. You WILL hug her upon first meeting, damn it - even if you were the guy that threatened to dump her in a volcano on Therum. Then there was the wine-and-eveningwear cabin visit in LotSB ("Come back soon!"). It just went downhill from there...

Again, it's fine for these things to be here... just give us a choice.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 07 juin 2012 - 03:28 .

[Aurora313]

Yeah, my Shepard, both of them (yes, even M!Shep) hate the Asari. They hate people being up themselves and acting with a smug superiority.
Headcanon M!Shepard hates Liara even more because he's been through enough sh!t, had a crappy life on Earth and managed to get past it all then Liara goes and mind melds with him, digging it all up again. Then has the gaol to admit having feelings for him when I've done nothing but treat her with hostility and suspicion the entire time she's been on my ship. Hell, she ninja-manced me too!

Like I said in my last post, I wanted Shepard to shout at Liara to grow up after Thessia and have more pity towards HIM considering HE'S the one whose essentially been tasked with rallying dozens of feuding races, and destroying the greatest threat the Galaxy has ever known. One planet does not compare to that, no matter how 'precious' it may be to an individual, it's not important. It can be rebuilt.

Like I1 Trust said, my Shepards would have nodded in agreement with the remark. They wouldn't have necessarily laughed unless they had a beer or two beforehand, but still agreed with it.

[CrazyRah]

Well everything that Shepard say at the Starbrat sure takes the cake for me. I was stunned when i heard everything and i had to facepalm and just get done with the crap

[Skypezee]

Glad I'm not the only one who really despised Liara >_> I mean, my canon Shep just sees her as a friend but not a BFF and certainly not a lover. No matter how many times I want to distance Shep from Liara, BioWare finds some way to shove the two of them together. Actually it bugged me that BioWare forces the importance on the Asari in general. For the most part, the Asari usually annoyed my Shep anyways due to their arrogance and shady practices. Buuuuuut, the auto-dialogue has Shep always standing by them... and not laughing at Joker's jokes. Come on girl, you've laughed at similar jokes before D8

[Oldbones2]

Amioran wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
If you could break up just one piece of auto-dialogue in order to deliver a response more appropriate for your Shepard, what would it be?

(Sorry if this needs to be moved.)

A little off-topic but I think this need to be addressed since people continue to mix things up.

It doesn't exist a thing as your Shepard. Shepard is Shepard.

While you get to control some of Shepard's actions and choices that's a different thing than owning a character, a completely different thing.

The archetype of Shepard is created by the authors. Shepard, at the root, is what the authors want him/her to be, so Shepard will always be him/her as created by the authors fundamentally. You just get to control him/her for a while but s/he will never be yours, just because Shepard is not an archetype created by yourself. You never create the context for the character, you never create Shepard, it already exists as an individual with his/her own characteristics.

The choices you can have etc. will always have boundaries set by the type of archetype the authors decided to create. So when I hear phrases of the kind: "my Shepard would never do a thing as that" or "my Shepard would do otherwise" referred to the way the authors decided to script some parts I cannot but shake my head in disbelief. "Your" Shepard doesn't exist and it is perfectly fitting for the authors to make Shepard consistent with their view of the character they created. Shepard is what the authors wants him/her to be at the root, you just control his/her modus operandi for a while, nothing more.

A total different thing is, instead, when you create an archetype yourself. In that case the character will be yours in the real sense and things as that would be really inappropriate (they happen the same but for motives of resources, but they usually get masked). You get to decide everything about that character because it is your character, starting from the context of the same. Examples of these type of archetypes are characters you can create in games as Baldur's Gate, or Temple of Elemental Evil, Fallout, Skyrim or the old SSI rpgs, etc.

They are totally different in scope than characters that are already formed in the context, that are already archetypes created by the authors. Examples of these types of characters are: Hawke, Shepard (in fact), Geralt, Jensen and so on and so forth. All of them are already what they are at the root and you cannot make that character "yours" no more than you can do that with another real person.

There's a great difference between the two types. For the Shepards' types it doesn't exist an "yours" about them, while for the other kind yes because they don't exist as individuals before you create them (in the way you want).

Well that's... wrong.


Bioware has repeatedly use the phrase, your Shepards.  Or someone's Shepard.

There's also the fact that there is no canon Shepard.

It's not like KoTOR where Revan is basically the same no matter what we do, and there is a set path that he is known to have chosen.

In fact in ME, Bioware basically gives us a template with a small amount of similarity to other Shepards, then lets us go nuts.

Our, Shepards, while we don't OWN them, are still directed and shaped almost entirely by us.  They're still bound to our will (within the context of the game of course).  They're still given shape and form entirely by our actions.

If what you are saying was true, then Bioware would never have made a version of the suicide mission where you can fail and then Shepard dies, and it stands as canon (for you).

Nice try, but don't quit your day job.

[eye basher]

immersion every time i see that word i cringe it's just a game no matter how much you tell yourself it isn't.

[Girsheliz]

Actually I was happy how post Thessia scenes played out, I have always been neutral towards Joker, never found his jokes funny and didn't really like him in general, but after that stupid joke I started to like him even less, then he shows up in flashbacks. I was glad how my paragon Shep responded and Mark gave a really good performance there even better than Hale. I don't think agreeing with Joker would be appropriate let alone laugh, joking about people dieing is not funny no matter what.



One scene that really bugs me is paragon speech on Ranoch, to make peace between Geth and Quarians, it really made me cringe especially when Shepard says Keelah'Selai and that awkward smile in the end...



There were other small scenes aboard Normandy which I would have loved to be played out differently, like for example when EDI talks about parallel universes, I wanted to continue the conversation, but alas Shepard doesn't show any interest, there were many other small scenes like that.

Still Most immersion breaking was "I'll sleep when I'm dead" and "big stupid jelly fish", my Shepard has never been racist.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

eye basher wrote...

immersion every time i see that word i cringe it's just a game no matter how much you tell yourself it isn't.

*facepalm*

That's just ridiculously condescending.