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[Taboo]

jeff359 wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If Mr. Hudson wants to treat his game like a film it will be critiqued like a film. The ending to his film is terrible.

I can do this all day.

He said that?

Oh yes. Jesus. He said that he wanted to make a more cinematic experience and that boss fights were too "video-gamey."

This is my job Mr. Hudson. You will not win.

Wow.. How could he think any video game could live up to film critique? Let alone a science fiction game, and role playing game. That's madness.

I actually agree on the boss fight scenario though. Not really sure how it would fit in. Fighting Harbinger, sure it's a fun addition but it doesn't really "end" the threat. Fighting TIM is also a bit pointless. Although I would have expected a "final mission" where you actually fought the reapers in some way either by using EMS or directing the fleet, making a final push which ended the threat. It needed a climax, if not a boss fight.

They only seem to want "constructive compliments"

I've sent them over fifteen pages of constructive complaints. They probably know damn good and well who I am down there.

[Victia]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Victia wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Also, it's a hell of a lot harder to write a happy ending that isn't cheesy than to write a depressing ending. I suppose Bioware's writers just don't have that kind of talent.

Are you implying that ME1 and ME2's endings were "Cheesy"? 

When I was talking about endings, I meant series endings. Also, Drew kinda had a major role in both of those. I'm talking about Bioware's writers in a post-Drew world.

*snip*

It's actually a real problem in modern science fiction. If I'm not mistaken several people have noted that the depressing mood of modern science fiction is hindering the potential of future sciences. There's no Star Trek, Star Gate, Star Wars type of technological wonderment, it's all pretty doom and gloom.

http://www.smithsoni...essimistic.html

 

I remembering reading another  article about that  same issue.. and I agree they really need to stop being pessimistic about  things. Honestly I think it just a  trend that is used to drive sales because  thats what they feel the market demands. 

Those where the days - i miss them so much, thanks for the article link was a very interestsing read and I agree with it.

My problem is, all trends come to an end you would think that some companies/writers etc would just jump ship before it starts to sink (which it will)

Modifié par Victia, 30 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[Ecrulis]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

*snip* 

The more I think about it it feels like a rush job based off of Mr. Hudson lock myself away antics.

No peer review.

  

Oh  I know... thats what even more mind bloggling... no matter how much your ego  cries about it... always, always peer review. You will just be better off for in the long run..

Yea seriously I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around the idea that anything creative could be above peer review .

[ahandsomeshark]

Lol now I'm curious into what kind of films Hudson watches to think the ending would stand up to a film critique. I would say most of my critiquing of video games stems from my knowledge of how stories are handled in films vs video games.

[Taboo]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Lol now I'm curious into what kind of films Hudson watches to think the ending would stand up to a film critique. I would say most of my critiquing of video games stems from my knowledge of how stories are handled in films vs video games.

Well then he'll regret frustrating me. I must admit I have no idea he watches but I have to ask in a George Carlin voice: "What the HELL where you thinking?"

[nitefyre410]

Laurencio wrote...

*snip* 

Wow.. How could he think any video game could live up to film critique? Let alone a science fiction game, and role playing game. That's madness.

I actually agree on the boss fight scenario though. Not really sure how it would fit in. Fighting Harbinger, sure it's a fun addition but it doesn't really "end" the threat. Fighting TIM is also a bit pointless. Although I would have expected a "final mission" where you actually fought the reapers in some way either by using EMS or directing the fleet, making a final push which ended the threat. It needed a climax, if not a boss fight.

They could have done a final battle with  Harbinger ... in stages  using the EMS... 

Stage 1:  Ground  
Stage 2: Air/Space   
Stage 3:   A Throw back to the Saren  Battle from  ME 1 with  other chacters doing a Hold the line type deal from ME 2  who lives is dependent on EMS.. On the  Citadel after  a conversation show down with TIM.

Hudson  "Too Video gamey" comment as I take is a flat out excuse because he  and walters could not think of anything.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 avril 2012 - 05:08 .

[Peranor]

There's a quote on a blog I read a few weeks ago that says it all for me:

"Nobody cares about the events of your story, they care about how it affects the characters".

I cared about curing the Genophage because of my friendship to Urdnot Wrex, and the redemption it let Mordin have.  I cared about bringing peace to the quarian and the Geth because of the relationship I had with Tali and the humanity we discovered in Legion.
I didn't care about an abstract concept like "the preservation of organic life".  We fought for the future of the characters we fell in love with. At least I did.
Somewhere, in the process of developing the endings, Bioware forgot that.

[Evil_Nerjuna]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If Mr. Hudson wants to treat his game like a film it will be critiqued like a film. The ending to his film is terrible.

I can do this all day.

He said that?

Oh yes. Jesus. He said that he wanted to make a more cinematic experience and that boss fights were too "video-gamey."

This is my job Mr. Hudson. You will not win.

If Casey Hudson wants to turn his games into film, he should reconcider ditching his career as a Game Developer. Not that he would be able to find a place in the flim industry, judging by your threads I've been following in the past couple of weeks.

Anyway, I just want to point out you can still waxing philosophy and reflection, even it's "video-gamey". One of the recent examples I could come with was To the Moon. The game itself lack cinematics and it does have a feel of a old-school linear RPG, but at the same time it forces you reflect the theme of mortality as you explore through the stages, that is located inside the memories of a dying old man.

And not just stating this arguement from plain "gamer". I'm a student who is currently studying game design, who actually did bother reading through countless of game theories and being analytical when it comes to the bits and pieces of the design. Even with my school that was pushing for more of an artistic route in games into their students, the ending didn't win any favours for me either. Nor with my classmates.

[Mims]

Even in terms of 'downer' endings, the ME ending fails. I think that's what is truly unfortunate. A good downer ending still carries the feeling of the work, and usually still feels something has been accomplished. [Or some sort of lesson learned, ect.]

I feel like so much of the ending was botched to make synthesis glorified. That's the only ending that makes the most use of all the assets handed to it. Its the only ending that ends on a 'high' note...or at least tries to.

Destroy with Shepard alive feels like a weird sequel hook, and control is pretty much worthless.

[Taboo]

Mims wrote...

Even in terms of 'downer' endings, the ME ending fails. I think that's what is truly unfortunate. A good downer ending still carries the feeling of the work, and usually still feels something has been accomplished. [Or some sort of lesson learned, ect.]

I feel like so much of the ending was botched to make synthesis glorified. That's the only ending that makes the most use of all the assets handed to it. Its the only ending that ends on a 'high' note...or at least tries to.

Destroy with Shepard alive feels like a weird sequel hook, and control is pretty much worthless.

You want to know what's REALLY annoying? The fact that the destroy ending is the only one that creates flags in the game data. Synthesis and Control do nothing.

[ahandsomeshark]

Even if the goal was to turn it into a film Heavy Rain already did it and did it MUCH better.

and STILL had multiple endings and outcomes and made player choice matter.

[Laurencio]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

*snip* 

Wow.. How could he think any video game could live up to film critique? Let alone a science fiction game, and role playing game. That's madness.

I actually agree on the boss fight scenario though. Not really sure how it would fit in. Fighting Harbinger, sure it's a fun addition but it doesn't really "end" the threat. Fighting TIM is also a bit pointless. Although I would have expected a "final mission" where you actually fought the reapers in some way either by using EMS or directing the fleet, making a final push which ended the threat. It needed a climax, if not a boss fight.

They could have done a final battle with  Harbinger ... in stages  using the EMS... 

Stage 1:  Ground  
Stage 2: Air/Space   
Stage 3:   A Throw back to the Saren  Battle from  ME 1 with  other chacters doing a Hold the line type deal from ME 2  who lives is dependent on EMS.. On the  Citadel after  a conversation show down with TIM.

Hudson  "Too Video gamey" comment as I take is a flat out excuse because he  and walters could not think of anything.

See I don't really see how defeating one single reaper, Harbinger, ends the threat efficently. There needs to be something that comes after, so the "final" boss doesn't make sense. Fighting Harbinger as something that wasn't the final boss is another matter though.

[Taboo]

I should mail these threads to Bioware with comments.

The thought amuses me.

But who should get them?

[JabberJim]

A dark ending to anything rarely works for me. Maybe the Movie Se7en is the rare example. Dark ending seem so forced anymore.

Truthfully if I want something depressing I just read the news. Mass Effect was a great escape into a world that seemed to evolve with every decision we made... until the ending of course.

[Kunari801]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

*snip* 
I think we'll see different outcomes based on EMS. It would be ****ing stupid to simply explain in a straightforward manner what happened and they've pretty much already said that that isn't going to happen.

 

I agree it would be stupid... but right   now I have very little faith in Bioware to do the non stupid thing. I just keep going back to the no - A B. C ending qoute and  behold... 

Choice A, Choice B, Choice C 
 

They weren't A, B, C endings, they were R, B, G endings.  

[Laurencio]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I should mail these threads to Bioware with comments.

The thought amuses me.

But who should get them?

The producer I would assume, Michael Gamble, or the project lead Casy Hudson.  if you want to go above their heads then Dr. Ray Muzyka would probably be your best bet.

Modifié par Laurencio, 30 avril 2012 - 05:16 .

[Dybia]

Those endings are sad and depressing. Sad as in sad, not sad as in bad. And they fit.

The current ME3 endings are just depressingly bad.

For now I watch, and wait. It isn't too late to fix this.

[Taboo]

Casey Hudson would be eaten alive in the film industry. Hubris only gets you one thing. PAIN.

This will eventually come back to bite him in the ass whether he knows it or not.

But all the people below him will be hurt first. People like Mr. Priestly and Miss Merizan. Like a rolling stone........

[MattFini]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mims wrote...

Even in terms of 'downer' endings, the ME ending fails. I think that's what is truly unfortunate. A good downer ending still carries the feeling of the work, and usually still feels something has been accomplished. [Or some sort of lesson learned, ect.]

I feel like so much of the ending was botched to make synthesis glorified. That's the only ending that makes the most use of all the assets handed to it. Its the only ending that ends on a 'high' note...or at least tries to.

Destroy with Shepard alive feels like a weird sequel hook, and control is pretty much worthless.

You want to know what's REALLY annoying? The fact that the destroy ending is the only one that creates flags in the game data. Synthesis and Control do nothing.

I hate all three endings because once you take that space elevator everything is completely anticlimactic.  No sense of victory earned or acheived.  While I deplore synthesis (and I hate control, too) and the StarChild altogether, I think ME3's greatest failure is that you simply feel no sense of accomplishment.

Having said that, Destroy is the only thing I could imagine choosing.  For 2.9 games Shepards one goal is STOPPING the Reapers.  Not charting the, ahem, final step in evolution, or turning into a damn ghost to control the stupid things.

Destroy is as stupid (don't walk TOWARD the explosion, Shep!) and anticlimactic as the others, but it lets you do what you set out to do.  And you live (kind of).

[nitefyre410]

Victia wrote...

*snip* 

Those where the days - i miss them so much, thanks for the article link was a very interestsing read and I agree with it.

My problem is, all trends come to an end you would think that some companies/writers etc would just jump ship before it starts to sink (which it will)

 

I think thats one of the reason why I gravitate towards the anime side of things more... I can just find more  variety(though they have their trends that are annoying) 

Still can name  in the past 5 years  3 shows the came out  that all have different endings from Downer to Bittersweeter to  Happy ending. 

How can I say about some the  westerns shows and other media..    Everything is starting to become copy and paste.  I don;t mean plots  or stories but the styles... everyone is going for dark and edge thing because  X show was succesfull because of it. 

Watch in the next 5 years how many shows try to copy Game of Thrones...

[Taboo]

Laurencio wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I should mail these threads to Bioware with comments.

The thought amuses me.

But who should get them?

Casy Hudson is the project lead, if you want to go over his head then Dr. Ray Muzyka would probably be your best bet.

But would it reach Dr. Muzyka? I have my doubts. I sent something DIRECTLY to Michael Gamble I doubt that it reached him.

[StrelokCH]

JabberJim wrote...

A dark ending to anything rarely works for me. Maybe the Movie Se7en is the rare example. Dark ending seem so forced anymore.

Truthfully if I want something depressing I just read the news. Mass Effect was a great escape into a world that seemed to evolve with every decision we made... until the ending of course.

There was a pumpkin in the box, nothing else. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

But I agree on that point that games shouldn't force you "back" to reality, but dark endings don't have to do just because  there are no rainbows or unicorns. In fact, ME3 with its plot holes is so bananza that returning to reality is almost impossible.

[Victia]

Laurencio wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

*snip* 

Wow.. How could he think any video game could live up to film critique? Let alone a science fiction game, and role playing game. That's madness.

I actually agree on the boss fight scenario though. Not really sure how it would fit in. Fighting Harbinger, sure it's a fun addition but it doesn't really "end" the threat. Fighting TIM is also a bit pointless. Although I would have expected a "final mission" where you actually fought the reapers in some way either by using EMS or directing the fleet, making a final push which ended the threat. It needed a climax, if not a boss fight.

They could have done a final battle with  Harbinger ... in stages  using the EMS... 

Stage 1:  Ground  
Stage 2: Air/Space   
Stage 3:   A Throw back to the Saren  Battle from  ME 1 with  other chacters doing a Hold the line type deal from ME 2  who lives is dependent on EMS.. On the  Citadel after  a conversation show down with TIM.

Hudson  "Too Video gamey" comment as I take is a flat out excuse because he  and walters could not think of anything.

See I don't really see how defeating one single reaper, Harbinger, ends the threat efficently. There needs to be something that comes after, so the "final" boss doesn't make sense. Fighting Harbinger as something that wasn't the final boss is another matter though.

i personally wanted to see the normandy go 1 on 1 with harbinger (your me2 upgrades could have determined the outcome) maybe to distract him so shep and team could get to the beam - as to a boss fight I would have loved one but not sure who or what would actually fit - maybe reaperised TIM, or even Anderson(could have been a big shock) depending if you destroyed or kept the collector base, would have been good, after you defeat them you can deploy the catalyst and cut schenes of your outcomes happen

[ShepnTali]

 Someone mentioned the movie 'Descent''

Here is a case where I prefer the original downer ending, I'm sure I'd feel different if it ended with a block and a pair of scissors, however. It may be a combination of a few things. No real connect with the characters, short time frame, and it makes sense. 

Here in ME, we spend much more time with story, lore and character. And being a game, we are absorbed into it, and are part of the fight. Here, I do connect and care for the characters, it was a long time investment, and not much made sense. You saved the distant future, the end. wow.

Thanks for the thread Taboo! Blue babies, house on Rannoch, Miranda's ASSets...  whatever inspires you to discuss next time. Even why and how an EC changes the ending part 2, as there's still confusion out there.

[Taboo]

ShepnTali wrote...

Thanks for the thread Taboo! Blue babies, house on Rannoch, Miranda's ASSets...  whatever inspires you to discuss next time. Even why and how an EC changes the ending part 2, as there's still confusion out there.

And the lingerie model. That was a weird experience.