247 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Devil Mingy wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Lol now I'm curious into what kind of films Hudson watches to think the ending would stand up to a film critique. I would say most of my critiquing of video games stems from my knowledge of how stories are handled in films vs video games.

Going by the Mass Effect 3 ending and the goal for controversy and speculations... I'd say Southland Tales, especially the Cannes cut.

He shouldn't be in control of anything if he is using that film as inspiration.

[Klijpope]

crimzontearz wrote...

I see people calling some users silly for wanting Casey anf Mac to resign or to have nothing to do with ME3: EC

but...uhm....they screwed up and then called their customers dumb for not understanding and claimed they felt hurt by the reaction....maybe this is not worth terminating them over but they did this consciously (and more importantly chose to hijack the ending) and apparently see no wrong in it. why should people NOT desire for them to touch any other franchise they love if they deem what they did acceptable? (also, yeah I am sorry but I do hope there are some consequences coming down on the two of them...if anything to avoid this from ever happening again)

So how would you like it if you start a long project that lasts nearly 8 years, involving 3 games and over a 100 hours of content, which, for the first 2 installments at least gets almost universal praise and the professional critics give you a thumbs up for the final piece, then to make one mistake (admittedly a big one) at the end,

How much does one mistake outweigh all the rest? Calling for them to be fired or set aside isn't silly, it's f**king disgraceful. I am trying not to come across all fanboy here, but ME is CH's baby from the get go. I'm not defending CH; I'm defending the rights of a creator to make mistakes and take risks. Taking risks means sometimes you fail, and it would be a much poorer world if storytellers don't take risks anymore.

This isn't "Heaven's Gate" - it has not bankrupted a studio due to the willful and persistent self indulgence of its director. So it shouldn't end careers.

[nitefyre410]

VoraciousBeaver wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Victia wrote...

*snip* 

Those where the days - i miss them so much, thanks for the article link was a very interestsing read and I agree with it.

My problem is, all trends come to an end you would think that some companies/writers etc would just jump ship before it starts to sink (which it will)

 

I think thats one of the reason why I gravitate towards the anime side of things more... I can just find more  variety(though they have their trends that are annoying) 

Still can name  in the past 5 years  3 shows the came out  that all have different endings from Downer to Bittersweeter to  Happy ending. 

How can I say about some the  westerns shows and other media..    Everything is starting to become copy and paste.  I don;t mean plots  or stories but the styles... everyone is going for dark and edge thing because  X show was succesfull because of it. 

Watch in the next 5 years how many shows try to copy Game of Thrones...

Haha, yeah. Anime is definitely eclectic. I suppose that has something to do with the limitless possibilites granted by animation.

The dark and edgy themes are quite common these days. But that's not exactly a bad thing, in my opinion. Take two other HBO shows for example--"The Wire" and "The Sopranos." Both have these themes. These are two of the greatest shows of all time. Though I will give a lot more credit to The Wire for its better use of those themes. But I suppose I'm just contributing to your point with this. Whoops.

  

You are right and  The Wire  in interesting take because each season can be considered a series in of its self. The problem comes when  you got from 1 or 2 to 4,5, 6, 7, and 8. 
 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 avril 2012 - 06:13 .

[Whimper]

I agree, Klijpope. Firing people for making bad decisions is pretty much a worthless way to go about getting better. People need to feel like they can take risks, and they need to feel it when things go bad. But BioWare would do a lot better by keeping its writers and helping them learn from their mistakes, rather than turfing them out on the street in some kind of public sacrifice.

Speaking of sacrifice...

Alien3 is another movie with a downer ending that I loved.

[Taboo]

 No. But much like Heaven's Gate a bad descision has ruined a piece of art. Michael Cimino was a domineering jackass who single handedly ended an entire movement in film. What we have here is an unprecedented uprising over a video game. This will never be forgotten and neither will the people at it's head.

I'm well aware of how things can go downhill with one bad descision because I've seen it happen.

They don't need to resign because the damage has already happened. They have been humiliated for almost two months non stop on the interenet. The interney never forgets and it never really forgives.

They are still for their mistake. There is no reason to pursue anything further because nothing can match personal humiliation.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 30 avril 2012 - 06:17 .

[Kunari801]

Klijpope wrote...

... How much does one mistake outweigh all the rest? Calling for them to be fired or set aside isn't silly, it's f**king disgraceful. I am trying not to come across all fanboy here, but ME is CH's baby from the get go. I'm not defending CH; I'm defending the rights of a creator to make mistakes and take risks. Taking risks means sometimes you fail, and it would be a much poorer world if storytellers don't take risks anymore... 

I agree, calling for him to be fired is extreeme.  I would expect, at least behind the scenes, for him to have a talk about his hubris with the ME3 ending.  If the rumor is that he and Mac wrote the ending without peer review with the rest of the ME3 team is true, then he does deserve to have a time-out (again NOT fired) to consider his actions as that behavior is not acceptable in a team environment.   I'd like to think that rumor is false, but the ending is just so out-of-place with the rest of the game that it rings true. 

Either way, they acted shocked about the ending blow-back.

Modifié par Kunari801, 30 avril 2012 - 06:23 .

[crimzontearz]

Really Pope??

becaue I ran 5 years spanning WOD chronichles as a storyteller and and trust me if I ended them like this I would hope to god my players would tell me to please never be their ST again and I would deserve it. Ending a career? no...but NEVER EVER being allowed this much freedom? hell yeah...oh and a public non backhanded aknowlegment too

[Taboo]

Whimper wrote...

I agree, Klijpope. Firing people for making bad decisions is pretty much a worthless way to go about getting better. People need to feel like they can take risks, and they need to feel it when things go bad. But BioWare would do a lot better by keeping its writers and helping them learn from their mistakes, rather than turfing them out on the street in some kind of public sacrifice.

Speaking of sacrifice...

Alien3 is another movie with a downer ending that I loved.

People really get butthurt over Alien 3 here. Watch out.

[nitefyre410]

 Their mistake has brought into  question Bioware brand loyalty which after DA 2(and I liked the game.)  was standing on shaky ground( Your not the only the can quote old songs Taboo-xx  )    With this fisaco you have 60,000 vocally pissed of people and alot more silently pissed off people that may never likely buy another Bioware game again.  Leaving there name a game no matter how "good" they make it, the stigma of ME 3 is going follow them. 

So yes -  If  I was  Bioware Execs shows there would be serious consideration of getting some new talent... either from with in or  highing outside maybe a mixture of both. 


Because like Ms. Jackson says -  "What have you done for me lately?" 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[Taboo]

nitefyre410 wrote...

 Their mistake has brought into  question Bioware brand loyalty which after DA 2(and I liked the game.)  was standing on shaky ground( Your not the only the can quote old songs Taboo-xx  )    With this fisaco you have 60,000 vocally pissed of people and alot more silently pissed off people that may never likely buy another Bioware game again.  Leaving there name a game no matter how "good" they make it, the stigma of ME 3 is going follow them. 

So yes -  If  I was  Bioware Execs shows there would be serious consideration of getting some new talent... either from with in or  highing outside maybe a mixture of both. 

Yes.........I do quote songs a lot. It's fun and give people a sense of the topic.

Maybe I'll talk about hubris next. Oh, Jokerman..........

[nitefyre410]

Taboo-XX wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

 Their mistake has brought into  question Bioware brand loyalty which after DA 2(and I liked the game.)  was standing on shaky ground( Your not the only the can quote old songs Taboo-xx  )    With this fisaco you have 60,000 vocally pissed of people and alot more silently pissed off people that may never likely buy another Bioware game again.  Leaving there name a game no matter how "good" they make it, the stigma of ME 3 is going follow them. 

So yes -  If  I was  Bioware Execs shows there would be serious consideration of getting some new talent... either from with in or  highing outside maybe a mixture of both. 

Yes.........I do quote songs a lot. It's fun and give people a sense of the topic.

Maybe I'll talk about hubris next. Oh, Jokerman..........

 


well for as serious as some  of your topics can get... its good  and adds sense of levity  to the topic of its does not become over bearing  and people become  numb to the whole deal.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 avril 2012 - 06:33 .

[Taboo]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

 Their mistake has brought into  question Bioware brand loyalty which after DA 2(and I liked the game.)  was standing on shaky ground( Your not the only the can quote old songs Taboo-xx  )    With this fisaco you have 60,000 vocally pissed of people and alot more silently pissed off people that may never likely buy another Bioware game again.  Leaving there name a game no matter how "good" they make it, the stigma of ME 3 is going follow them. 

So yes -  If  I was  Bioware Execs shows there would be serious consideration of getting some new talent... either from with in or  highing outside maybe a mixture of both. 

Yes.........I do quote songs a lot. It's fun and give people a sense of the topic.

Maybe I'll talk about hubris next. Oh, Jokerman..........

 


well for as serious as some  of your topics can get... its good  and adds sense of levity  to the topic of its does not become over bearing  and people because  numb to the whole deal.

Yes.........I'm aware of the sterility of my writing. I helps bring people back to reality. It's a grounding technique I use in my writing.

Looks more like a cautionary tale is the next topic on my plate. I'll need to prepare my notes..........

[pistolols]

lol, OP gave me a good laugh.  Always very humorous when pseudo intellectuals attempt to prop themselves up by seizing the opportunity a bandwagon presents to them.

Taboo-XX wrote...

The end as it stands right now is a paltry excuse at being deep and philosophical. I might have achieved the same level of depth in Middle School when depressed, I could have gone and locked myself in the bathroom stall and wrote grotesque stories about how angry I was with the world.

Is this type of condescending elitist crap supposed to be constructive?  Am i to agree with you now because you feel the need to pretend you're better than Mass Effect's writers?  What a joke!

[Evil_Nerjuna]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Maybe I'll talk about hubris next. Oh, Jokerman..........

How about hubris, while using Heavens Gate as an example? I would like that talk. Might give other future game designers a moment of pause before doing something rash.

I hear that the games industry is so small that if you tried to sign up for a new position, their prospective employers would skip over the resume inspection and call up their former employers to check out their history instead...

So yeah.

Modifié par Evil_Nerjuna, 30 avril 2012 - 06:37 .

[Taboo]

pistolols wrote...

lol, OP gave me a good laugh.  Always very humorous when pseudo intellectuals attempt to prop themselves up by seizing the opportunity a bandwagon presents to them.

Taboo-XX wrote...

The end as it stands right now is a paltry excuse at being deep and philosophical. I might have achieved the same level of depth in Middle School when depressed, I could have gone and locked myself in the bathroom stall and wrote grotesque stories about how angry I was with the world.

Is this type of condescending elitist crap supposed to be constructive?  Am i to agree with you now because you feel the need to pretend you're better than Mass Effect's writers?  What a joke!

That's me. Always elitist and always above everyone else. Especially when I've been trying to create a sense on level headedness since I joined over a month ago. I published four topic called A Call to Reason. I have also published several topics defending Bioware and it's employees.

No I'm not perfect and yes I do sometimes let my emotions get the better of me but I refuse to lower myself in an attempt to amuse people.

I went to school to study film and narrative, philosophy, ethics, writing and in a wild card play, infectious diseases. This is what I was educated to do. This is my job. I am payed money to do this for a living.

[Taboo]

Evil_Nerjuna wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Maybe I'll talk about hubris next. Oh, Jokerman..........

How about hubris, while using Heavens Gate as an example? I would like that talk. Might give other future game designers a moment of pause before doing something rash.

I hear that the games industry is so small that if you tried to sign up for a new position, their prospective employers would skip over the resume inspection and call up their former employers to check out their history instead...

So yeah.

Cimino ruined an entire film movement. An ENTIRE movement. Bioware has created the largest movement in any art form I've ever seen. One that will never be forgotten. It's not the same as Heaven's Gate but the intial cause seems to be hubris.

[bloodstone2007]

Ok I have a serious question, the old man and the kid are talking they mention another story about the shepherd . If they don't redo the endings my question is how is there another story, he is dead? Then they mention buy DLC and continue the story.... Again how can you continue he is DEAD!? since there is no Indoctrination theory and that has been flat out denied. So again why would I buy DLC?

[StrelokCH]

bloodstone2007 wrote...

Ok I have a serious question, the old man and the kid are talking they mention another story about the shepherd . If they don't redo the endings my question is how is there another story, he is dead? Then they mention buy DLC and continue the story.... Again how can you continue he is DEAD!? since there is no Indoctrination theory and that has been flat out denied. So again why would I buy DLC?

Dare I say it? "Prequel", the plague of sci-fi.

[Taboo]

StrelokCH wrote...

bloodstone2007 wrote...

Ok I have a serious question, the old man and the kid are talking they mention another story about the shepherd . If they don't redo the endings my question is how is there another story, he is dead? Then they mention buy DLC and continue the story.... Again how can you continue he is DEAD!? since there is no Indoctrination theory and that has been flat out denied. So again why would I buy DLC?

Dare I say it? "Prequel", the plague of sci-fi.

Oh God I hope not.

The rage........the rage. 

[StrelokCH]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Oh God I hope not.

The rage........the rage. 

Or even better, we do a George Lucas and the Council species attacked the Reapers first.

[nitefyre410]

StrelokCH wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Oh God I hope not.

The rage........the rage. 

Or even better, we do a George Lucas and the Council species attacked the Reapers first.

 

  ... No 

[Taboo]

I pity the writing staff. What a horrible ****ing mess. It can be fixed but my God.......the requirements........

[nitefyre410]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I pity the writing staff. What a horrible ****ing mess. It can be fixed but my God.......the requirements........

  

Whats really scary is that this whole ending thing is a just a mere symptom.  It like the hanging thread that once you start to pull it the whole thing falls apart.    

You can chop the ending and completly redo it but you still have to deal with two factors that neither explained  or dealt  with through the whole game... 

The Crucible and The Catalyst...  

It could the ME 3 was doomed from the start. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 avril 2012 - 07:04 .

[frylock23]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Whimper wrote...

I agree, Klijpope. Firing people for making bad decisions is pretty much a worthless way to go about getting better. People need to feel like they can take risks, and they need to feel it when things go bad. But BioWare would do a lot better by keeping its writers and helping them learn from their mistakes, rather than turfing them out on the street in some kind of public sacrifice.

Speaking of sacrifice...

Alien3 is another movie with a downer ending that I loved.

People really get butthurt over Alien 3 here. Watch out.

I had my problems with Alien 3, but the ending was not one of them.

[Taboo]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I pity the writing staff. What a horrible ****ing mess. It can be fixed but my God.......the requirements........

  

Whats really scary is that this whole ending thing is a just a mere symptom.  It like the hanging thread that once you start to pull it the whole thing falls apart.    

You can chop the ending and completly redo it but you still have to deal with two factors that neither explained  or dealt  with through the whole game... 

The Crucible and The Catalyst...  

It could the ME 3 was doomed from the start. 

It only begins to unravel when Shepard goes up on the elevator.

SOMETHING happened.