485 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

A character that sacrifices nothing, except out of inconvenience or the bad decisions of friends, is not heroic. I'm happy to see a PC that is capable, confident, and successful, but not at all happy to see a PC that makes comments like "apparently I'm the only one that can fix everyone's problems in this city." That kind of sarcastic commentary is a not amusing to me, especially in that it's accurate. Victory through attrition is the most dramatic.

Master Chief is a Fratt Boy hero. Hawke is a fan service hero. The Warden dies to save Ferelden from the Blight and the rest of the world from a greater conflict. A whole lot more of column B and a whole lot less of column A, please.

[Maria Caliban]

The Warden is the only surviving member of a super order who saves 'the world' from an ancient, mindless evil. You can sacrifice yourself, or you can have sex with a woman, or convince someone else to have sex with her, or sacrifice a companion.

Hawke is a refugee who rose to prominence in a city but was ultimately a pawn of history.

The first is a massive ego stroke on two legs. The second is a regular character.

[Atakuma]

Edit: What Maria said.

Modifié par Atakuma, 30 avril 2012 - 04:39 .

[the_one_54321]

The single joke is just an example. Hawke doesn't just repeatedly succeed. Hawke is a conqueror. Hawke is brass balls, cocky action hero. Hawke takes over an entire city filled with crazy conflict obsessed people. And then jokes about it. Perhaps the Warden is also an example of major bad ass, but it's the approach to presentation that makes Hawke the God-Among-Mortals. The Warden (unless you're deliberately playing otherwise) is acting in service to the world. Hawke is just the go-to as the resident super hero.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 30 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Hawke is a massive over hype regular character who doesn't deserve a place in the book of legends. It would be more appropriate for Anders to take the credit.Yet out of many eyes who witness the criminal/rebel's testimony on that day, it has to be Hawke that people talk about. I wonder if common folks praise or loathe Hawke for this undeserved legend.  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 30 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[schalafi]

Both the Warden and Hawke were thrown in to conflicts that they weren't prepared for at first. How they handled them was pretty much how you played them in the games.

Modifié par schalafi, 30 avril 2012 - 04:52 .

[the_one_54321]

schalafi wrote...
Both the Warden and Hawke were thrown in to conflicts that they weren't prepared for at first. How they handled them was pretty much how you played them in the games.

I think the Warden has the option of being humble, whereas Hawke is never presented as humble.

More specifically, in reference to me calling Hawke a fan service hero, I think that was a result of the "sarcastic option" in the dialog wheel. Hawke has confidant, aggressive, and sarcastic as the dominant personality features. And sarcastic was there (I'd argue) as a result of fans asking for it after enjoying the few jokes that the Warden can crack during DA:O.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 30 avril 2012 - 04:53 .

[AkiKishi]

Hawke is just a shmo dragged along by events.

If you you want normal characters that are still special, you can always give them an item. Shulk from Xenoblade is a pretty normal guy with a knack for machines, who just happens to carry a sword that can reshape the world.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 30 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[Pasquale1234]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Warden is the only surviving member of a super order who saves 'the world' from an ancient, mindless evil. You can sacrifice yourself, or you can have sex with a woman, or convince someone else to have sex with her, or sacrifice a companion.

That isn't entirely true.  There are other GWs in other parts of Thedas, and an Orlesian group came to help in Fereldan, but was turned away by Loghain.

Also, even if the Warden survives the Blight, s/he still had to submit to the taint - which carries a threat of killing you right off the bat, plagues you with nightmares, and gradually breaks down your body until your early demise via the calling.

ETA:

the_one_54321 wrote...

I think the Warden has the option of being humble, whereas Hawke is never presented as humble.

Yes, and I played some that were humble, some that were shy, some self-effacing, etc.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 30 avril 2012 - 04:55 .

[Atakuma]

the_one_54321 wrote...

schalafi wrote...
Both the Warden and Hawke were thrown in to conflicts that they weren't prepared for at first. How they handled them was pretty much how you played them in the games.

I think the Warden has the option of being humble, whereas Hawke is never presented as humble.

That's not true, all you have to do is pick the diplomatic tone and hawke is about as humble and nice as it gets.

[schalafi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

schalafi wrote...
Both the Warden and Hawke were thrown in to conflicts that they weren't prepared for at first. How they handled them was pretty much how you played them in the games.

I think the Warden has the option of being humble, whereas Hawke is never presented as humble.

That's pretty much dependent on what dialogue choice you choose. I stayed away from sarcastic comments so I never had that dialogue.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

schalafi wrote...

Both the Warden and Hawke were thrown in to conflicts that they weren't prepared for at first. How they handled them was pretty much how you played them in the games.

Exactly! My Warden had a reason. It's either for the good of everyone or for her LI or for his family.
My Hawke had no reason to stay in Kirkwall to poke his norse with Meredith-Orsino affair. There was no Bethany and mother to take care anymore. I don't give a damn **** about the mansion and Kirkwallers when everything surround me was just as nonsensical as Super Mario. That's how  I played my Hawke. As you can see it never happens. Because I don't have any character to play in DA 2. Hawke is just a controllable character created by BioWare.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 30 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[the_one_54321]

Atakuma wrote...
That's not true, all you have to do is pick the diplomatic tone and hawke is about as humble and nice as it gets.

schalafi wrote...
That's pretty much dependent on what dialogue choice you choose. I stayed away from sarcastic comments so I never had that dialogue.

I'm not saying you're mistaken, but in all the dialog vids I've seen (and there are a ton of them, of course) I've never heard Hawke be anything but fool hardy. Even when there was no sarcasm or joking.

(well, of course there's a number of exceptions in the NPC interactions, but that's not really the issue here)

[AkiKishi]

I always found Hawke a bit of a tool, even worse since I had to play him. It's partly the character and partly the very heavy handed writing that takes away every option but the one the writers want.

[schalafi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
That's not true, all you have to do is pick the diplomatic tone and hawke is about as humble and nice as it gets.

schalafi wrote...
That's pretty much dependent on what dialogue choice you choose. I stayed away from sarcastic comments so I never had that dialogue.

I'm not saying you're mistaken, but in all the dialog vids I've seen (and there are a ton of them, of course) I've never heard Hawke be anything but fool hardy. Even when there was no sarcasm or joking.

(well, of course there's a number of exceptions in the NPC interactions, but that's not really the issue here)

Maybe there's a difference in how a male Hawke comes across as more agressive and sarcastic.  I don't know, I've never played a male, but my fem Hawke was pretty humble all the time.

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...
I always found Hawke a bit of a tool,

I wouldn't have thought to term it this way. But it's just the [rooster]-sure attitude that always seems to be about Hawke. There is no service, no humility, no goal that is greater than the self. And this may even be a fault of the setting (Kirkwall) rather than the character itself.

[Atakuma]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I always found Hawke a bit of a tool, even worse since I had to play him. It's partly the character and partly the very heavy handed writing that takes away every option but the one the writers want.

To me that stems from the fact that hawke was given little to no logical motivation for doing anything in the main questline. You're literally just doing errands for people like it was a job.

Modifié par Atakuma, 30 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[AkiKishi]

Atakuma wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I always found Hawke a bit of a tool, even worse since I had to play him. It's partly the character and partly the very heavy handed writing that takes away every option but the one the writers want.

To me that stems from the fact that hawke was given little to no logical motivation for doing anything in the main questline. You're literally just doing errands for people like it was a job.

Partly that too. You were in Fereldan because you had something to do(DA). You were in Kirkwall because it was the only place the game let you go.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 30 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[whykikyouwhy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
That's not true, all you have to do is pick the diplomatic tone and hawke is about as humble and nice as it gets.

schalafi wrote...
That's pretty much dependent on what dialogue choice you choose. I stayed away from sarcastic comments so I never had that dialogue.

I'm not saying you're mistaken, but in all the dialog vids I've seen (and there are a ton of them, of course) I've never heard Hawke be anything but fool hardy. Even when there was no sarcasm or joking. 

(well, of course there's a number of exceptions in the NPC interactions, but that's not really the issue here)

So then your assessment of Hawke's demeanor is based on a selection of videos and not on your own gameplay? 

Having played a diplomatic Hawke in one playthrough, I can say that snarkiness is not a pervading tone throughout the game. It really does depend on what dialogue choices you make.

As others have pointed out, Hawke is a character set in odd circumstances - just trying to make the best or the most of the overall situation and the chain of events in Kirkwall. Plenty of heroic decisions are made, especially with respect to the companions. Not everything may turn out for the best, but that's not something that diminishes the intent. That's just the cruel twist of fate that can occur when a character isn't omnipotent.

[the_one_54321]

Atakuma wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
I always found Hawke a bit of a tool, even worse since I had to play him. It's partly the character and partly the very heavy handed writing that takes away every option but the one the writers want.

To me that stems from the fact that hawke was given little to no logical motivation for doing anything in the main questline. You're literally just doing errands for people like it was a job.

Like I said, the go-to resident superhero.

whykikyouwhy wrote...
So then your assessment of Hawke's demeanor is based on a selection of videos and not on your own gameplay?

You say that as though the entire game isn't available for viewing on YouTube.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 30 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[Atakuma]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I always found Hawke a bit of a tool, even worse since I had to play him. It's partly the character and partly the very heavy handed writing that takes away every option but the one the writers want.

To me that stems from the fact that hawke was given little to no logical motivation for doing anything in the main questline. You're literally just doing errands for people like it was a job.

Partly that too. You were in Fereldan because you had something to do(DA). You were in Kirkwall because it was the only place the game let you go.

The whole political pawn angle probably could have worked for me if Hawke had had some sort of personal stake in it, sort of like John Marsden in RDR.

Modifié par Atakuma, 30 avril 2012 - 05:12 .

[jlb524]

the_one_54321 wrote...
Hawke doesn't just repeatedly succeed. Hawke is a conqueror. Hawke is brass balls, cocky action hero. Hawke takes over an entire city filled with crazy conflict obsessed people. And then jokes about it.

Um...okay.

Never experienced any of that in my game.

Don't remember Hawke taking the city over.

[the_one_54321]

Atakuma wrote...
The whole political pawn angle probably could have worked for me if Hawke had had some sort of personal stake in it, sort of like John Marsden in RDR.

Perhaps just some kind of stake at all, even if not personal. Hawke only resolves issues because Hawke is the only one around with the raw power of combat or personality that can pull it off.

Perhaps the difference with the Warden is that the Warden resolves conflicts because the Warden needs these things resolved in order to move forward with fighting the greater threat.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 30 avril 2012 - 05:15 .