112 réponses à ce sujet

[Jobasha]

Maybe we are forgetting that we are all fellow players here, and none of us is in a position comparable to a job interviewer; we all are on the same level. Some of us are good players, some are bad, but we all bought the game and play on someone else's servers.

I think we should at least have good manners with each other, and have the decency to TALK to the person we intend to kick before doing it, if we really feel like we should.

Personally, if I don't feel like playing Gold with some N7/50 AND in that particular moment I don't feel like asking him/her if he/she can play well either, it is I who leaves the lobby. It is a matter of respect.

The human resources mentality advocated by the OP (interesting read anyway, thanks for sharing) can certainly help you to squeeze as many credits as possible out of the game in, say, a month; but it cannot tell you how to HAVE FUN, which is exactly the point of playing a game, credits being only a part of it.

(I also believe that said mentality fails miserably in real life, too, for comparable reasons, but that's beside the point)

Modifié par Jobasha, 30 avril 2012 - 06:05 .

[Terraflare]

@Jobasha: That is also true - then again many job interviewers in this world might not qualify to be job interviewers themselves! This is a problem that will always arise though - whether the judge ever is qualified enough to judge. I find it naive to simply wish this problem away (no offense, I wish it werent like that too), and I rather newer players understand what's going on so they take the neccessary steps to avoid being on the receiving end.

Also, some people do enjoy earning credits and view it as THE game. But as you mentioned that is another issue altogether. I enjoy playing for playings sake, but when I get a terrible game i do feel annoyed, especially when I dont have much time.

[Deucetipher]

You could colorably claim perverse incentives as well. Hypothetically, someone who is better with an alternative loadout has to utilize standard, "optimized" loadouts in order to signal appropriately and gain admittance. (This assumes that the buyer is looking for maximized performance, not homogeneity or standardized performance)

[Jayleia]

Wall of Text hits [Jayleia] for elebenty-billion damage.
Jayleia dies.

But seriously, I think it actually does get to the right reason for a lot of kicks. But unless you're obviously in the wrong lobby (N7 1 with I commons...), I'll at least go on an FBW run with you.

What's the worst that could happen? Mission fail? I don't have to pay real money to repair armor and weapons, I don't lose the character or my weapons, its just a fail.

[EDIT]  I come to MP from CoH, you can have a team of 8 tanks blast through almost any content, or 8 blasters or 8 support...any group can make it work, just some make it easier.  Bring what's fun, I'll try to fill in the hole as best I can.

And I'll have fun, even if its a wave 3 fail

Modifié par Jayleia, 30 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[Lawli]

Jayleia wrote...

Wall of Text hits [Jayleia] for elebenty-billion damage.
Jayleia dies.

But seriously, I think it actually does get to the right reason for a lot of kicks. But unless you're obviously in the wrong lobby (N7 1 with I commons...), I'll at least go on an FBW run with you.

What's the worst that could happen? Mission fail? I don't have to pay real money to repair armor and weapons, I don't lose the character or my weapons, its just a fail.

[EDIT]  I come to MP from CoH, you can have a team of 8 tanks blast through almost any content, or 8 blasters or 8 support...any group can make it work, just some make it easier.  Bring what's fun, I'll try to fill in the hole as best I can.

And I'll have fun, even if its a wave 3 fail

that really depends on what value you place on time. some people really just have time for 2-3 games and dont want to get boggled down in a 30min fail run.

[Deucetipher]

Jayleia wrote...

Wall of Text hits [Jayleia] for elebenty-billion damage.
Jayleia dies.

But seriously, I think it actually does get to the right reason for a lot of kicks. But unless you're obviously in the wrong lobby (N7 1 with I commons...), I'll at least go on an FBW run with you.

What's the worst that could happen? Mission fail? I don't have to pay real money to repair armor and weapons, I don't lose the character or my weapons, its just a fail.

[EDIT]  I come to MP from CoH, you can have a team of 8 tanks blast through almost any content, or 8 blasters or 8 support...any group can make it work, just some make it easier.  Bring what's fun, I'll try to fill in the hole as best I can.

And I'll have fun, even if its a wave 3 fail

Would I be correct is assuming CoH is a fusion of MoH and CoD?  I hadn't seen that particular abbreviation before.

[Scottus4]

Tangster wrote...

TL:DR.
"You have a very limited time to convey as much information as you can" is what I took from it.

Irony.

[M A F I A]

Terraflare wrote...

There are 2 candidates - one who walks into the room, with a polished
resume, with a 1st class degree from a top university, has represented
his school at 4 international sporting events, and started that hedge
fund society. The other is what one might call an oddball - on paper,
not too bad, a decent degree from a middle university, decent grades,
participated but doesn't have anything particularly stellar down on
paper. Let's say the 1st guy actually has an IQ of 150, and the 2nd guy
has an IQ of 3000.

Pretty interesting read, there's something not right in your example though. If the second guy has an IQ of 3000 most probably he would have been able not only to ace school better than the first guy but also to obtain enough scholarships to top the first guy's results.

If instead, the second guy was a genius that NEVER went to college your example may be more solid since the guy wouldn't have gotten better results (paper) simply because he didn't get any degree.

Also, I noticed that one variable (high N7) normally allows much more leeway than any other variables, many time I was not kicked even though I was playing weird characters such as a lvl 1 Asari Justicar armed with a Claymore.

Modifié par M A F I A, 30 avril 2012 - 06:42 .

[Jobasha]

Terraflare wrote...

@Jobasha: That is also true - then again many job interviewers in this world might not qualify to be job interviewers themselves! This is a problem that will always arise though - whether the judge ever is qualified enough to judge. I find it naive to simply wish this problem away (no offense, I wish it werent like that too), and I rather newer players understand what's going on so they take the neccessary steps to avoid being on the receiving end.

None taken!

Maybe I misinterpreted where you wanted to go with your post. Surely enough, yours is a good piece of practical advice to people trying not to be kicked out of a lobby.

I wasn't really "wishing the problem away", I was simply focusing on how 'we the kickers' (lol) could enjoy more the game not trying to indirectly standardize the builds and the (lack of) etiquette, but I now realize that had little to do with your post.

Maybe we could expand on the matter warning new players that a large number of Gold players only get their kicks out of making credits and playing with 3-4 proven, reliable builds, as is customary with online gaming; and see everything else with suspicion.

If a player likes to experiment, or otherwise play in an 'unorthodox' fashion, it is very advisable they play with friends, or be patient and wait until a lobby does not kick them!

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Here's my checklist

N7 level- kinda shows experiance, willingness to progress

Weapon, weapon level- shows experience, gives indication of what your strategy is, shows if your playing for fun or for the win.

Equipment- Anyone who wants to win will want to go into the battle even with a level 1 ammo power. Not as important as other checks but does show "me" your desire to win.

Mic- Also not as important, but idk about everyone else but I can't hear shyt through my tv with sound turned up. Having a mic shows your willing to communicate/listen.

class/ Level- Also "Not-Important" depending on what other classes are in the game. Ive done gold with a level 1 decoy, level 5 HS, and a level 13 soldier. Yes just us 3, and we were only playing them because we wanted to level the classes. Took 28 minutes. This was with friends and not randoms though...

A few things I also take note of are "little picky" things that most would insult me over. But I've kicked ppl for arguing with me over SMG LWM not working on SMGs, ppl thinking assault rifle equipment rail works on raptor??.... yea, and anything else that ppl are saying/doing that gives me an clue that your not paying attention. I'm willing to overlook a lot, (not one of the guys who do spellcheck for instace ) but I need someone at least have the awareness/common sense to know that you check what killed a teamate before RUNNIN in to revive them, or that getting money missions done is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS more important than killing enemies.

Thats prettay myuch et.

[Shock n Awe]

osseywildborn wrote...

I think that covers most of the bases.

there is one more indicator you could have added. for xbox theres an achievement called unwavering for completing every map on gold. achievements for players can easily be found by comparing games. i've found that generally these players are much more competent than those without it.

Or beating the campaign on Insanity.  I've done both requirements, but I beat the campaign on Insanity before stepping foot in so much as a Silver game.

[Disciple888]

good post op. I'm a psych grad, and I would probably use impression management to explain the kicking phenomenon. On a related note, I also tend to be more careful when playing with randoms in a PUG. Just like a job interview, I'll present my best face. I'll stay in cover more, pick my spots, ambush enemies, kite mobs instead of trying to just get kills, rez squadmates, cap objectives, hold down flanks even if nobody's there yet, etc. etc.

OTOH, if I'm playing with my friends, I think social loafing tends to happen a lot. I'll run up to Atlases and melee them when they have full shields. I'll solo the other side of the map and die 1029507683 times dueling a turret. I'll try to kill a Phantom with just Concussive Shots. I'll bring a Batarian Sentinel into the game, at Level 6. And so forth. Part of it is because we've done so many gold matches that I feel confident we'll get extract, even if one of us is being really stupid. All of us have had to solo late Waves by ourselves on Gold at some point, so we know how good everyone is. The other is that I'm just more comfortable playing with people I've played with 8398026 times before. I can die a million times on Waves 1 and 2, and I know they won't be thinking "whatta noob" because they're judging me on multiple games, instead of on just one. It goes the other way too, my friends bring in low-level characters into Gold matches that have no business being there (Level 5-10), knowing they're gonna get a ton of EXP when we beat it.

[Terraflare]

@Disciple888 Yes that definitely happens. When I know I have 3 competent players covering my back, i tend to screw around alot more and as a result play more poorly than before. If Im carrying 3 newbs and I really want to try - then i play 2x better than normal.

@Deucetipher : Yup, that could be one outcome. If you think about the longer run when player skills develop along the lines of the game itself this could be a problem - eg if everybody only knew how to perform optimally in a FBWGG game, then in 3 months no one would know how to play against reapers etc. And CoH is Company of Heroes, a very very good RTS game.

@Shock and Awe: The trouble with adding more and more *better* ways to judge people (ie completed insanity, done all 6 maps on gold etc) will inevitably add to more stratification - people might we unwilling to accept someone who've only have 5/6 gold maps completed, for example.

[Terraflare]

M A F I A wrote...


Pretty interesting read, there's something not right in your example though. If the second guy has an IQ of 3000 most probably he would have been able not only to ace school better than the first guy but also to obtain enough scholarships to top the first guy's results.

If instead, the second guy was a genius that NEVER went to college your example may be more solid since the guy wouldn't have gotten better results (paper) simply because he didn't get any degree.

Also, I noticed that one variable (high N7) normally allows much more leeway than any other variables, many time I was not kicked even though I was playing weird characters such as a lvl 1 Asari Justicar armed with a Claymore.

Well, not quite. I know many very intelligent people who, to put it gently, dont have the social graces to navigate an artificial system like an interview or even an exam. That's why you will see many geniuses drop out of school (or not 'excel' at it in the traditional sense). 

[Smasher12]

1 million husks = 1 million credits
10 banshee infinitive credits cause not a ****ing way to win !!!!
:devil:

Modifié par Smasher12, 30 avril 2012 - 08:35 .

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

M A F I A wrote...

Terraflare wrote...

There are 2 candidates - one who walks into the room, with a polished
resume, with a 1st class degree from a top university, has represented
his school at 4 international sporting events, and started that hedge
fund society. The other is what one might call an oddball - on paper,
not too bad, a decent degree from a middle university, decent grades,
participated but doesn't have anything particularly stellar down on
paper. Let's say the 1st guy actually has an IQ of 150, and the 2nd guy
has an IQ of 3000.

Pretty interesting read, there's something not right in your example though. If the second guy has an IQ of 3000 most probably he would have been able not only to ace school better than the first guy but also to obtain enough scholarships to top the first guy's results.

If instead, the second guy was a genius that NEVER went to college your example may be more solid since the guy wouldn't have gotten better results (paper) simply because he didn't get any degree.

Also, I noticed that one variable (high N7) normally allows much more leeway than any other variables, many time I was not kicked even though I was playing weird characters such as a lvl 1 Asari Justicar armed with a Claymore.

I really, really don't want to flaunt my own IQ - I never mention it to anyone, none of my friends know it, but I am similar to the second guy - my resume is bad and I work in a low paid dead end job despite having an IQ higher than 99.98% of people. All in all its not something to be proud of, it just means I suck more than the rest of the guys in dead end jobs 'cos I dont have an excuse other than that I am lazy..

You don't have to take my word on that - this is the internet where we are all genius's and huge muscly badasses - I only say this to illustrate that the example in question is more common than you think. So there you go, you can be a genius and extremely dumb at the same time.

Like me.

[andysdead]

K1LL STREAK wrote...

M A F I A wrote...

Terraflare wrote...

There are 2 candidates - one who walks into the room, with a polished
resume, with a 1st class degree from a top university, has represented
his school at 4 international sporting events, and started that hedge
fund society. The other is what one might call an oddball - on paper,
not too bad, a decent degree from a middle university, decent grades,
participated but doesn't have anything particularly stellar down on
paper. Let's say the 1st guy actually has an IQ of 150, and the 2nd guy
has an IQ of 3000.

Pretty interesting read, there's something not right in your example though. If the second guy has an IQ of 3000 most probably he would have been able not only to ace school better than the first guy but also to obtain enough scholarships to top the first guy's results.

If instead, the second guy was a genius that NEVER went to college your example may be more solid since the guy wouldn't have gotten better results (paper) simply because he didn't get any degree.

Also, I noticed that one variable (high N7) normally allows much more leeway than any other variables, many time I was not kicked even though I was playing weird characters such as a lvl 1 Asari Justicar armed with a Claymore.

I really, really don't want to flaunt my own IQ - I never mention it to anyone, none of my friends know it, but I am similar to the second guy - my resume is bad and I work in a low paid dead end job despite having an IQ higher than 99.98% of people. All in all its not something to be proud of, it just means I suck more than the rest of the guys in dead end jobs 'cos I dont have an excuse other than that I am lazy..

You don't have to take my word on that - this is the internet where we are all genius's and huge muscly badasses - I only say this to illustrate that the example in question is more common than you think. So there you go, you can be a genius and extremely dumb at the same time.

Like me.

It shows how much IQ matters in the real world, especially considering how many spelling and grammatical errors are present in your post.

Furthermore, the OP clearly has no idea how IQ is rated: 150 is genius level. 3000 is not human. Just saying.

[Terraflare]

andysdead wrote...


It shows how much IQ matters in the real world, especially considering how many spelling and grammatical errors are present in your post.

Furthermore, the OP clearly has no idea how IQ is rated: 150 is genius level. 3000 is not human. Just saying.

You really should be ashamed of yourself. The poster was simply recounting his own life and the state he was in in spite of his IQ, and you choose to put him down further by references to spelling/grammatical errors. I hope you eventually grow out of this immaturity.

And sorry if I have to explain it to you, since everyone else who read my post gets it. It's called a FIGURE of SPEECH to ILLUSTRATE an EXAMPLE. The same rules apply to when I say "I am so hungry i could eat a cow". 

Facepalm...............................................................

[scheherazade]

Terraflare wrote...

A high N7 rating doesn't mean a player is better, it simply signals to me that this person has been playing longer, and is thus more likely to have run gold matches multiple times/know what's going on

TBH, high N7 just means that :
Of all the time you've spent playing, way too much of that time was spent in bronze/silver.

To get super high N7, you need to be incessantly leveling characters.
Which means that when you hit 20, you promote.
Which means that [usually] only about levels 18-20 were in gold... a fraction of their time played.
Which means that an N7 of X000, usually is gonna be overwhelmed when things get tough.

Players that hit 20 and moved up to gold, and since then have only played gold, are gonna be in much better shape.

I find that an N7 in the mid 200's tends to be the sweet spot in gold matches - i.e. a PUG team full of N7 250 tends to have the most effortless gold runs.

Usually in PUGs, N7 under 100ish is often 'dead weight', and N7 over 750ish is often 'meh' contribution.

-scheherazade

Modifié par scheherazade, 30 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[M A F I A]

@scheherazade: I do not concur. While a high N7 doesn't certally equate skill, it means experience. Besides, playing all the times at level 20 is rather cheese considered you have maximum hitpoints and powers. As for me, I like to promote as much as I like the challenge to make the occasional game with low level characters, which in my opinion requires more "training" rather than playing level 20 all the times.

Modifié par M A F I A, 30 avril 2012 - 09:37 .

[scheherazade]

M A F I A wrote...

@scheherazade: I do not concur. While a high N7 doesn't certally equate skill, it means experience. Besides, playing all the times at level 20 is rather cheese considered you have maximum hitpoints and powers. As for me, I like to promote as much as I like the challenge to make the occasional game with low level characters, which in my opinion requires more "training" rather than playing level 20 all the times.

A gold enemy kills a lvl20 (with all health bonus') faster than a bronze enemy kills a lvl1 (with no health bonus').
And that's by a wide margin.

Bronze is effortless.
Silver only requires moderate attention towards the later waves.
How much is that kind of 'experience' really helping a player?
It's just holding them back.

-scheherazade

Modifié par scheherazade, 30 avril 2012 - 09:51 .

[NobodyofConsequence]

I like levelling classes up, as well. Current N7 tad over 600. Often, I'll try something a little bit different with a class, just to keep my interest, ie, speccing for single target damage instead of AoE and aiming for tech explosions with my HE/SE. I'll play the first two games on bronze, the next two or three on silver, then on to gold, by which time I should be at least level 14. The number of games to hit level 20 will still be more than the number to hit level 14.

[neurovore]

You know how they say that genius and madness are two sides of the same coin? It doesn't necessarily mean that the geniuses are truly mad. It only means that their brain operates on a level that the rest of us don't understand. Imagine having a conversation with someone who's considered smart. Now imagine listening to them, and seeing 17 ways in which they are wrong. And imagine further, that no matter how carefully you explain it to them, they won't understand because it's too complicated to them. Now imagine talking to not quite as smart people.

Of course, there are several serial killers that were certified geniuses. One, with an IQ of 160 was asked "Didn't you feel pity for your victims?" to which he replied "If I had thought about it, I couldn't have done it. I had to shut down that part of my brain." IQ doesn't measure the ability to co-operate with other people. In fact, I'd think a high IQ only makes it harder.

PS. But meh, why pick such a ludicrous scale? You could've just chosen like 100 and 125. That's already a fairly big difference.
PPS. I just love how this discussion has been derailed into nitpicking over details. But the devil IS in the details. Analogies seldom work in very complex scenarios, and in a system so fraught with inconsistencies, they fall apart quite fast.

[Blue Face Beast]

The real problem is that people are taking the game too seriously like if it was critical to succeed every missions everytime.

At some point, you got to ask yourself why you are playing the game. Just to farm credits? So you can unlock more weapons? So you can farm more credits faster? So you can unlock even more weapons?

If a match was lasting 3-4 hours then i might have a better understanding for people trying to avoid any risks and going only with the Holy Trinity... But come on! ME3 matches rarely last more than 30 minutes. Can't people just enjoy a good game and see other players shortcomings as a little extra challenge for the team to overcome?

The game is not going anywhere by the way. There will still be credits to farm in 1 week, in 1 month. I say, take it easy, try having fun and rise to the challenge when things are not going as planned.

[Sabbatine]

neurovore wrote...

A couple of observations. First, people on this forum have reported surmised that N7 rating can be faked. Even if it couldn't, a high rating only means that they've played the game a lot. In fact, more than half of the players with 800+ rating I've met were rubbish. (Take this krogan with 950 rating who tried to melee a banshee, even if he got instagib-specialized every time.) Some people (such as myself) don't also like promoting. I think my N7 rating is half of what it should be. Overall, I'd consider 150-800 the safe range. Anything lower is less likely to have played more than a couple of characters to level 20. Anything more, and they're probably just not very effective.

I'd add in a special exception for N7 level 120.  Some of the best players I've seen are N7 120 because they have never promoted...

That said though, trying to determine a player's skill level through N7 rank is pointless.  It does not tell us what difficulty they played on.  A far better method (though not perfect) is looking at their weapon choice and weapon level.  I don't care what a person's N7 level is, if they've got a Carnifex X, or rank ten of another rare weapon, then they are far more likely to be a good player than someone with an N7 rank 500 using a lower leveled weapon.

neurovore wrote... 

Also, since weapon packs can be bought with real cash, people have weapons they haven't "earned". An heir might have a peach car, but not know how to drive it. (And what's wrong with lemons?!)

This is quite a bit rarer than you'd think... based on forum posts it sounds like all people who buy the packs with real money ever get are character cards anyways.

neurovore wrote... 

Oh well. It's not like I play Gold anyways. I don't find it interesting, as it favors a strategy where you spend 80%+ of your time stationary. On Silver, you can at least move around and even solo a little (eh, I know people can solo Gold, but that doesn't really seem very interesting either. Just a lot of covering and kiting.)

Not sure what game you've been playing, but the only people on gold who remain stationary 80% of the time are the firebase white geth farmers and those games are pretty easy to avoid.