74 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Dapper Chimp wrote...

capn233 wrote...

The Carnifex can be acquired the next mission after Citadel Coup, that is the second act.

For christ's sake. There are 16 priority missions. "Citadel Coup" is number 8. The Carnifex isn't available until the second half of the game. Please nitpick this some more.

I do feel free to do so.

How early are you buying the Paladin?  How many of the weapons that you used prior to buying it did you upgrade?  What mods did you buy before you got the Paladin.

Hell, don't answer if you don't want to.  I will give you this one.  Yes that is one tangible benefit of the Paladin over Carnifex, potentially acquiring it earlier.

As Paladin relates to the original topic, you don't acquire it earlier than the Valiant..

I wasn't aware the Soldiers had access to "Throw". Or Vanguards. Or Engineers. Or Infiltrators. Perhaps my copy of the game is defective.

This thread was about Sentinels.  Or did you forget that?  Stop being a clown.  Sentinel doesn't have Adrenaline Rush, nor do any of the other classes except Soldier.

If you start to bring soldiers into it then Black Widow is much better than the Paladin.

I'll keep this in mind the next time I play as an Infiltrator. Or the next time I feel like carrying around a situational weapon with a weight of 200 instead of one with a weight of 35. Who needs decent cooldown times anyway?

A situational weapon.  That's pretty funny.

Sure Black Widow is mildly more difficult to use at close range than the Paladin.  It is much better against the big enemies that you were so worried about when defending the Paladin.

And if you don't recall, you are the one alternating between different classes.  Soldier has more than enough capacity to carry the Black Widow.  Hell, I know Engineer has enough capacity because I ran one with it.  And Engineer and Adept have the least capacity.  Cooldowns are fine, even with 2 weapons.

To be relevant to the topic at hand, it doesn't matter.  A Sentinel does the most damage detonating combos.  Arming him with the Paladin doesn't improve him any noticable degree over the Carnifex.

Thank for your taking the time to share your opinion.

Thank you for not being able to understand simple concepts.  Bane introduced that some people don't think the Paladin is worth the credits over the Carnifex.  Kronner and I stated that we didn't think it was.

Modifié par capn233, 01 mai 2012 - 07:43 .

[Dapper Chimp]

capn233 wrote...
This thread was about Sentinels.  Or did you forget that? 

No, the thread was about Paladin vs Valiant. 

capn233 wrote... 
A situational weapon.  That's pretty funny.

Sure Black Widow is mildly more difficult to use at close range than the Paladin.  It is much better against the big enemies that you were so worried about when defending the Paladin.

You're arguing that heavy sniper rifle is better at close range than a significantly lighter heavy pistol? Speaking of things that are pretty funny.

If Sentinels are so reliant on powers, as you attest (and I'm sure is true), then why in the hell would you take a weapon that will shave > 50% off your cooldown bonus? 

capn233 wrote...  
And if you don't recall, you are the one alternating between different classes.  Soldier has more than enough capacity to carry the Black Widow.

I'm not alternating at all, but you're more than welcome to point out where you think I have. And indeed he does have the capacity, but I prefer to travel light and have access to AR and CS whenever i want them. When I want extreme range, I put the scope on my assault rifle. We can go back to the soldier build thread I posted in yesterday if you want to continue that discussion.

capn233 wrote...   
To be relevant to the topic at hand, it doesn't matter.  A Sentinel does the most damage detonating combos.  Arming him with the Paladin doesn't improve him any noticable degree over the Carnifex.

And this relevant to the Paladin vs Valiant question how?

[PROTOTYPE_ZERO]

OP here. I did not expect this thread to blow up nearly as much as it did. WOW. Lots of great discussion..

I ended up buying the Paladin because I had the credits for it before Priority:Surkesh and I figured it'll be a while before I get the Carnifex and the Valiant is too heavy for me to use my powers. Paladin V = 200% cooldown and I get it 1/3 through the game. I've bought the Black Widow in my Soldier and Infiltrator playthroughs, don't plan on doing so in this one so why not.

You're right in that I don't end up using it much between Dark Channel + Throw + Warp + Throw, but against Ravagers in particular (stupid Rachni mission), the Paladin + scope + clip was a lifesaver.

[goofyomnivore]

Hehe. Boss fights. I cannot wrap my head around the "the weapon is useless because it's only helpful against the toughest enemies in the game" argument that I've heard about 5 times now.

I bet the reason you can't 'wrap your head around it' is because you're too busy calling people obtuse and insulting anyone who isn't waving a Paladin banner. Nobody said the weapon is useless. The whole argument is about the efficiency. No one has disagreed with you that the Paladin is 'better' versus Atlas Mechs. The source of the argument is the overall value of the guns. A Carnifex can do everything a Paladin can do (arguably better due to clip size) except versus a few enemies that are power/focus fired down by you and your squad anyways, so the advantages of the Paladin are negligible at best. They're basically the same gun. One you can buy and get a few missions before the other. That advantage is nil on a NG+ run.

In short. There is no 'huge' advantage and the difference in the guns is access to them. Do you want one earlier, or do you want to use your credits on something else.

Modifié par strive, 01 mai 2012 - 09:11 .

[Dapper Chimp]

strive wrote...
 A Carnifex can do everything a Paladin can do (arguably better due to clip size) except versus a few enemies that are power/focus fired down by you and your squad anyways, so the advantages of the Paladin are negligible at best.

Again, if it's you and your squad vs one Brute (ala Palaven), then you're absolutely right. However, (and I'm saying this for the 12th time), when you're being mobbed by 3 or 4 of them, then time matters. 

The problem is that you're still stuck in this general use vs specialized use disconnect. Which I suppose is why I feel some people are being obtuse. 

strive wrote... 
They're basically the same gun. One you can buy and get a few missions before the other. That advantage is nil on a NG+ run.

Except for the whole lighter and does more damage thing. *rolls eyes*

 

strive wrote...  
In short. There is no 'huge' advantage and the difference in the guns is access to them. Do you want one earlier, or do you want to use your credits on something else.

Like what? My last character ended the first game with 600k credits. By the end of NG+ I had every weapon that my squad used upgraded to X, including the Paladin, the Valkyrie, and the Wraith, none of which get the "3 free upgrades" that the other weapons do. I had evevy model ship, almost every piece of armor, every fish, and still had money burning a hole in my pocket. 

JaegerBane said it best, "The thing is, as with many of the anti-paladin arguments I've heard so far, there's an implicit assumption that the Paladin requires significant sacrifice to acquire. In reality, it doesn't."

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 01 mai 2012 - 09:43 .

[goofyomnivore]

Again, if it's you and your squad vs one Brute (ala Palaven), then you're absolutely right. However, (and I'm saying this for the 12th time), when you're being mobbed by 3 or 4 of them, then time matters.

Yeah it does, but the increase of 'kill speed' versus four brutes is mythical, when overkill and clip size are taken into consideration. You seem to be bent on this idea that the 35% more damage is awesomesauce when in fact it is insignificant. The two guns are more or less the exact same in killing speed, versus everything but an Atlas or Banshee and those encounters are so rare, and the difference is maybe a few seconds.

Except for the whole lighter and does more damage thing. *rolls eyes*

It also has a smaller clip size and its damage is overkill 95% of the time :/. A very marginal gain if any.

Like what?

I doubt you could buy a Paladin + Black Widow or Wraith before you acquire a Carnifex. So for people who would rather spend their money on those two, the Carnifex will come sooner.

[Dapper Chimp]

strive wrote...
Yeah it does, but the increase of 'kill speed' versus four brutes is mythical, when overkill and clip size are taken into consideration. You seem to be bent on this idea that the 35% more damage is awesomesauce when in fact it is insignificant. The two guns are more or less the exact same in killing speed, versus everything but an Atlas or Banshee and those encounters are so rare, and the difference is maybe a few seconds.

I don't know how to debate with someone that considers 35% insignificant. You win.

Out of curiosity though, do you play the entire game with the Predator? I mean, it's the first gun you get, it's cheap to upgrade, it has a 15 round clip and its DPS is actually higher than the Carnifex. Anyone willing to bet the answer is no? Anyone willing to guess why?

strive wrote... 
It also has a smaller clip size and its damage is overkill 95% of the time :/. A very marginal gain if any.

Please go back and read my comment about which side of the dichotomy you appear to be stuck in. 

strive wrote...  
I doubt you could buy a Paladin + Black Widow or Wraith before you acquire a Carnifex. So for people who would rather spend their money on those two, the Carnifex will come sooner.

You're right. All of these weapons are useless because you can't have them all at the same time. Anyone that wants to discuss the benefits of one over any of the others shouldn't post here. 

[goofyomnivore]

Sigh there is no reasoning with you, clearly in your mind the Paladin is some uber weapon when in fact it is a Carnifex with two less shots and slightly more damage. It is a side upgrade at best, because burst damage is pointless on weapons due to shieldgate and large hp pools.

35% isn't a significant amount. Especially when you consider the fact the Paladin has a smaller ammo pool and will be reloading more often. It's one benefit over the Carnifex is pretty much nil. It has better burst damage (overkill on almost everything) and its damage advantage is diminished over a longer battle due to ammo restrictions and frequent reloading.

They're the same exact gun performance wise. The only reason you should buy a Paladin is if you think it 'looks cool' or if you can't wait for a Carnifex.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The only reason I'm using my Paladin X right now is that my Carnifex is still at VIII, which gives me a 20% weight penalty over the Paladin. I pistol snipe maybe once or twice per mission with my current Shep.

[goofyomnivore]

Yeah the only classes that would benefit from the weight to damage ratios are casters. Dapper, plays a Soldier, so I have no idea why he is defending the Paladin with such zeal, when in fact the Black Widow is by far a better option to spend your early game credits on than a Paladin (from a min-max perspective), and by the time you get 200k again you will have a Carnifex which is more or less the same gun.

I even went and tested the Paladin and Carnifex between posts. They both killed an Atlas within 5s of each other, and that can go + or - 5 depending on RNG, luck, etc. Really the guns perform the exact same. 35% damage isn't as awesome as it sounds, sorry.

Modifié par strive, 02 mai 2012 - 04:29 .

[Dapper Chimp]

strive wrote...

Sigh there is no reasoning with you, clearly in your mind the Paladin is some uber weapon when in fact it is a Carnifex with two less shots and slightly more damage. It is a side upgrade at best, because burst damage is pointless on weapons due to shieldgate and large hp pools.

 Which is precisely why you use it against unshielded opponents with large hp pools. And not mooks. 13th time I've said it.

strive wrote... 
35% isn't a significant amount. Especially when you consider the fact the Paladin has a smaller ammo pool and will be reloading more often. It's one benefit over the Carnifex is pretty much nil. It has better burst damage (overkill on almost everything) and its damage advantage is diminished over a longer battle due to ammo restrictions and frequent reloading.

*shakes head in disbelieve*

1) the magazine upgrade give it a six round magazine - just like the Carnifex. 
2) You won't be reloading "more often" because you'll be killing the big things you're using it on ~35% quicker.
3) If you're using this against mooks during extended battles, you don't deserve to have it. Same goes for people that use sniper rifles for close quarters combat.

strive wrote...  They're the same exact gun performance wise. The only reason you should buy a Paladin is if you think it 'looks cool' or if you can't wait for a Carnifex.

Or if you want to have something more powerful and lighter than the Carnifex. 

[goofyomnivore]

1) the magazine upgrade give it a six round magazine - just like the Carnifex.

Your damage 'advantage' shrinks from 35% to 10% then. :/, Congrats you now have a Carnifex. Unless you're suggesting to take the scope off in which hinders the gun even more then imo.

2) You won't be reloading "more often" because you'll be killing the big things you're using it on ~35% quicker.

You're not  adding any distance. After two reloads you're pretty much even with the Carnifex.

Or if you want to have something more powerful and lighter than the Carnifex.

They weigh the exact same, and kill in the same speed. Any advantages are placebo at best.

If you're using this against mooks during extended battles, you don't deserve to have it. Same goes for people that use sniper rifles for close quarters combat.

I didn't say to use it versus mooks. I said over longer battles aka bosses.

Modifié par strive, 02 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[PROTOTYPE_ZERO]

I love how my original question of Paladin vs. Valiant turned into a debate of Paladin vs. Carnifex. Bottom line: for a caster class, I found the Paladin worth it if nothing else because I got a powerful weapon that kept me at 200% cooldown 8 missions before I could get the Carnifex (Surkesh, Rachni, Cerberus Abductions, Tuchanka x 4 - Cerberus, Turianx2, Priority, Citadel). Not an insignificant amount of time..

[Dapper Chimp]

strive wrote...
Your damage 'advantage' shrinks from 35% to 10% then. :/, Congrats you now have a Carnifex. Unless you're suggesting to take the scope off in wich the guns become much less effective.

LOL! Of course you take the scope off the close-to-medium ranged weapon! 

And no, the benefit isn't reduced. Damage and RoF aren't magically altered just because your magazine size increases. 

strive wrote...
You're not gaining any significant ground. After two reloads you're pretty much even with the Carnifex.

Unless, of course, you're looking at two dead Brutes and a signficantly wounded third after two reloads.

strive wrote... 
They weigh the exact same, and kill in the same speed. Any advantages are placebo at best.

They do not. Carnifex = 1.0 - 0.5. Paladin = 0.7 - 0.35. I'll wait while you go confirm this in-game. 
Kill speed cannot possibly be the same if one does more damage than the other. Unless you're using it against level 1 mooks. Which I will suggest for a 14th time you not do.

strive wrote...  
I didn't say to use it versus mooks. I said over longer battles aka bosses.

You know what? Create a new save. Bite the bullet and buy the freakin' thing. Upgrade it and take for it a spin. Then come back and talk to me when you actually know what you're talking about. 

PROTOTYPE_ZERO wrote...

I love how my original question of Paladin vs. Valiant turned into a debate of Paladin vs. Carnifex. 

I know!! So sorry your thread has been derailed

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 02 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[goofyomnivore]

LOL! Of course you take the scope off the close-to-medium ranged weapon!

I didn't suggest that. You're the one taking mods off.

And no, the benefit isn't reduced. Damage and RoF aren't magically altered just because your magazine size increases.

Heavy barrel mod or scope which one are you ditching?

They both weigh .75 to .35 from the files datamined in the game. They may have changed in MP, I don't play it any more, so I'm not update, but as far as I know MP updates do not translate to SP.

source: https://docs.google....JLdXZZVXc#gid=0

You know what? Create a new save. Bite the bullet and buy the freakin' thing. Upgrade it and take for it a spin. Then come back and talk to me when you actually know what you're talking about.

I've used it before. I've beaten Insanity a few times and Kronner's modded difficulty as well. The guns perform the exact same, sorry bub. I even just tested it like an hour ago.

Unless, of course, you're looking at two dead Brutes and a signficantly wounded third after two reloads.

I don't recall ever seeing three brutes at once other than London and summoning Kalros. Maybe one of the N7 Mission MP maps? I haven't done them since my first playthrough, but I remember most of them being Cerberus.

Kill speed cannot possibly be the same if one does more damage than the other. Unless you're using it against level 1 mooks. Which I will suggest for a 14th time you not do.

If you spend more time reloading then yes it does matter. If it dies in 4 shots you're correct. It is better. However Banshees and Atlas do not. The four shot burst damage is the strength of the Paladin it is useless due to overkill/bosses needing more than four shots.


I don't even know why I'm arguing this, you're not getting it, but sweetheart the guns perform the exact same. 99% of the time. The only choice when deciding between these two guns is do I want to spend the money now or wait for the Carnifex later. That is it.

LOL! Of course you take the scope off the close-to-medium ranged weapon!

Just going to answer this gain in case it wasn't sarcasm. If you're using a Heavy Pistol (mini sniper) in close-medium range exclusivly without a scope then IDK what to say. Use a Wraith it weighs maybe 10% more cooldown more and will own that range much better.

Modifié par strive, 02 mai 2012 - 05:34 .

[Dapper Chimp]

strive wrote...
I didn't suggest that. You're the one taking mods off.

"Congrats you now have a Carnifex. Unless you're suggesting to take the scope off in wich the guns become much less effective."

Sound familiar?

strive wrote... 
Heavy barrel mod or scope which one are you ditching?

Neither. In the interest of comparing apple to apples, I've been assuming a fully upgraded weapon with no mods. 

FWIW, I use the extended magazine and the armor-piercing mod.

strive wrote...  
They both weigh .75 to .35 from the files datamined in the game. They may have changed in MP, I don't play it any more, so I'm not update, but as far as I know MP updates do not translate to SP.

source: https://docs.google....JLdXZZVXc#gid=0

Nope. Again, I'll wait while you go verify in-game. That sheet has an accurate weight for the Carnifex but the Paladin is listed wrong. I know because I checked. 

strive wrote...   
I've used it before. I've beaten Insanity a few times and Kronner's modded difficulty as well. The guns perform the exact same, sorry bub. I even just tested it like an hour ago.

Define "perform". If you're talking about RoF, that's never been contested. 

strive wrote...    
I don't recall ever seeing three brutes at once other than London and summoning Kalros. Maybe one of the N7 Mission MP maps? I haven't done them since my first playthrough, but I remember most of them being Cerberus.

London, Tuchanka, Horizon, Menae. Perhaps the last one doesn't count because the most you face at one time is 2, but in all the other insances you're facing 3 or more. 

strive wrote...     
If you spend more time reloading then yes it does matter. If it dies in 4 shots you're correct. It is better. However Banshees and Atlas do not. The four shot burst damage is the strength of the Paladin it is useless due to overkill/bosses needing more than four shots.

You can't have it both ways. If you use the magazing upgrade you have the same clip size at the Carnifex. If you're doing more damage with each of those shots, then you're reloading less frequently (3 brutes x 4 shots each = 2 clips vs 3 brutes x 6 shots each = 3 clips). Again, you're completing ignoring the fact that killing something before it kills you is a good thing. 

strive wrote...      
I don't even know why I'm arguing this, you're not getting it, but sweetheart the guns perform the exact same. 99% of the time. The only choice when deciding between these two guns is do I want to spend the money now or wait for the Carnifex later. That is it.

Good for you, darling, but that doesn't make you right. Hugs and kisses. 

[goofyomnivore]

People have gone through the ini files they weigh the same and it is reflected in the UI.

Here is one from BioWare

Carnifex Heavy Pistol
- Encumbrance increased from [0.75-0.35] to [1.0-0.5]

Paladin Heavy Pistol
- Encumbrance increased from [0.75-0.35] to [1.0-0.5]

The very first mp patch (altering the vanilla game aka sp)
http://social.biowar...3/index/9544143

Tuchanka never spawns three at once unless you're talking about the hammer, which you're not suppose to kill those anyways. It spawns two when you go through ruins, and they're not at once. Horizon spawns two at once, and a Banshee makes it way to you about 10-15s later (more than enough time to kill both of them). Menae you never face more than one at once, unless you trigger them by storming the General.

You can't have it both ways. If you use the magazing upgrade you have the same clip size at the Carnifex.

Yes and you sacrifice accuracy (easier to hit modifiers) or a flat out 25% damage. Pretty much canceling yourself out. Hell I'd argue without the scope your ROF is decreased due to the + recticle having to come back down. If you want reliable accuracy.

Define "perform". If you're talking about RoF, that's never been contested.

Killing speed.

Neither. In the interest of comparing apple to apples, I've been assuming a fully upgraded weapon with no mods.

Then they're more or less the exact same. One gives better burst damage (which is never fully utilized) the other has a better ammo pool and clip size. Both are 'meh' advantages and not really a big deal. Use what you like, they perform the exact same. One is free, but you gotta wait the other will deny you the Black Widow for a while.

Modifié par strive, 02 mai 2012 - 06:16 .

[JaegerBane]

strive wrote...
I doubt you could buy a Paladin + Black Widow or Wraith before you acquire a Carnifex. So for people who would rather spend their money on those two, the Carnifex will come sooner.

Good question - this will be something I'll take note of in my current playthrough, where I've just finished Mars and Priority: Citadel I, and intend to purchase the Black Widow ASAP. It'll be interesting to see if I can afford the Paladin before the cut-off period (i.e. Utukku, just before Priority: Tuchanka). If its after that I'll swing to Carnifex.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't really know why I'm arguing this. 1AM bordemn maybe? If this guy thinks his 35% damage is game changing, well then ignorance is bliss I guess.

I agree though if you have no use for the Wraith or Black Widow get the Paladin since you have a ton of credits anyways. However from a min max point of view I believe the Soldier/Infiltrator should beeline to the Black Widow, and thus the value of the Paladin is diminished.

[Dapper Chimp]

[quote]strive wrote...
People have gone through the ini files they weigh the same and it is reflected in the UI. [/quote] *shrugs* 
I don't know what to tell you. I've stood in the hangar bay of the Normandy, at the workbench, switching between the two weapons and watching as my cooldown bonus fluctated based on which weapon I was holding. I actually had to trial-and-error the numbers into my spreadsheet to figure out the actual wieght of the Paladin (since the figure on that page was wrong). Perhaps my game is bugged. 

[quote]strive wrote... 

Tuchanka never spawns three at once unless you're talking about the hammer, which you're not suppose to kill those anyways.[/quote] Oh they're decorative then?! Never would've guessed it the way they attacked me and killed my squadmates. 

 [quote]strive wrote...  
Horizon spawns two at once, and a Banshee makes it way to you about 10-15s later (more than enough time to kill both of them). [/quote] There's a third that comes out with the Banshee. 

 [quote]strive wrote...   
Menae you never face more than one at once, unless you trigger them by storming the General.
[/quote] Perhaps I'm just unlucky. Two always spawn for me in the 2nd wave. Along with multiple Marauders.

 [quote]strive wrote...   

Yes and you sacrifice accuracy (easier to hit modifiers) or a flat out 25% damage. Pretty much canceling yourself out. Hell I'd argue without the scope your ROF is decreased due to the + recticle having to come back down. If you want reliable accuracy.[/quote] I'm not sacrificing accuracy because I'm using it at close-to-medium range. The reticle never exceeds the silhouette of my target and combined with Adrenaline Rush's time dialation, I always have time to line up my shots. 

And yes, I'm giving up a 25% bonus from mods. I think the 35% bonus from having a Paladin instead of a Carnifex in my hand more than makes up for it. Plus the 75% bonus from Adrenaline Rush. On top of the 65% percent Weapon Bonus from my Soldier build and the 51% bonus I get from Incendiary Ammo. 

I gladly give it up for the larger clip and extra penetration against armored targets (considering that I only use it against armored targets)

 [quote]strive wrote...    
Killing speed.[/quote] Very helpful. Thank you. Again, I'm guessing that's RoF. 

 [quote]strive wrote...     

Then they're more or less the exact same.[/quote] Except for the lower weight and the 35% additonal damage. Is that the 2nd or 3rd time I've said that?

 [quote]strive wrote...      
One gives better burst damage (which is never fully utilized) [/quote] Sure it is. When used correctly.

  [quote]strive wrote...      
the other has a better ammo pool and clip size. [/quote] ...unless you use the magazine mod, in which case they are the same.

  [quote]strive wrote...     
Both are 'meh' advantages and not really a big deal. Use what you like, they perform the exact same. One is free, but you gotta wait the other will deny you the Black Widow for a while.
[/quote] Only significant if the Black Widow is a weapon that you intend to use. 

  [quote]strive wrote...      
I agree though if you have no use for the Wraith or Black Widow get the Paladin since you have a ton of credits anyways. However from a min max point of view I believe the Soldier/Infiltrator should beeline to the Black Widow, and thus the value of the Paladin is diminished.[/quote] Why would I carry around a sniper rifle with 200 weight, when I can add a scope to the Valkyrie and get roughly the same accuracy? Granted, I can't peer through smoke bombs, but the 150% cooldown bonus and the abilty to use AR every 4 seconds is worth it. 

Modifié par Dapper Chimp, 02 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[goofyomnivore]

Yeah there is no reasoning with you, if you can't admit your wrong versus BioWare's own words :/. I'm not even going to bother posting anymore rebuttals. Keep believing in your superior weight difference and game breaking 35% more damage. I'm done trying to convince you that the advantages of a Paladin over a Carnifex are minimal at best.

Modifié par strive, 02 mai 2012 - 09:55 .

[Dapper Chimp]

Hehe, cool bro. Like I said, don't take my word for it, go check for yourself.

And I think it's kinda hilarious that I'm an idiot for thinking the 35% is a big deal and I'm also an idiot for not using the 25% damage mod. One might think you've abandoned logic and consistency in the interested of arguing that I'm an idiot.

Anyway, best of luck.

[PROTOTYPE_ZERO]

JaegerBane wrote...

strive wrote...
I doubt you could buy a Paladin + Black Widow or Wraith before you acquire a Carnifex. So for people who would rather spend their money on those two, the Carnifex will come sooner.

Good question - this will be something I'll take note of in my current playthrough, where I've just finished Mars and Priority: Citadel I, and intend to purchase the Black Widow ASAP. It'll be interesting to see if I can afford the Paladin before the cut-off period (i.e. Utukku, just before Priority: Tuchanka). If its after that I'll swing to Carnifex.

I was able to buy the Paladin right before Priority: Surkesh; I did all the planet scanning credits, and I saved my money, only buying the fishtank and pistol scope mod. But I also don't plan to buy BW in this playthrough.

[capn233]

PROTOTYPE_ZERO wrote...

I was able to buy the Paladin right before Priority: Surkesh; I did all the planet scanning credits, and I saved my money, only buying the fishtank and pistol scope mod. But I also don't plan to buy BW in this playthrough.

It's good that's working for you.

Keep the biotic combos going though.  Especially on the Ravagers, having Liara cast Warp on them will debuff them as well, especially if you take Expose.  And you can detonate it.

strive wrote...

Yeah there is no reasoning with you, if
you can't admit your wrong versus BioWare's own words :/. I'm not even
going to bother posting anymore rebuttals. Keep believing in your
superior weight difference and game breaking 35% more damage. I'm done
trying to convince you that the advantages of a Paladin over a Carnifex
are minimal at best.

Futility.

Modifié par capn233, 02 mai 2012 - 05:16 .

[JaegerBane]

PROTOTYPE_ZERO wrote...
I was able to buy the Paladin right before Priority: Surkesh; I did all the planet scanning credits, and I saved my money, only buying the fishtank and pistol scope mod. But I also don't plan to buy BW in this playthrough.

In my first playthrough I was able to afford the Paladin directly after Citadel II, and that was after wasting some *major* big bucks on guns I didn't use (for example, for some reason I levelled the Viper, Tempest and Katana to V before hitting Sur'Kesh 0_o).

This time through, I'm not buying anything other than Ash's poems and a medi-gel upgrade before the Black Widow - currently sitting on 70k. As I've mentioned a few times, one of the largest advnatages in the Paladin's corner is that its theoretically available immediately upon earning the required credits, but I suspect that I won't have the cash after purchasing the Black Widow until Gellix comes up. Whether or not I choose to stump up the credits at that point will depend on how much I miss it