510 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Amioran wrote...


Again, your "majority" is based only on the vocality of the people. It is not said surely that it's really the majority.

no, it is based on a poll with 70000 voters and 80% "the ending sucks".

The only thing that is up to my opinion there is whether 80% qualifies as a majority, but that is an opinion I wont be brought away from.

[Tirigon]

slyguy200 wrote...

And another thing about all of the people that are not active out of the copies sold. I would bet that most people actually don't give a ****.

Which is enough reason not to give a **** about their opinions either, I think.

[TreguardD]

[quote]Amioran wrote...

Now that the flaming is a little subsided and maybe we can start debating seriously about things, I decided to post this thread, that explains why Bioware cannot change the ending as it is.

(This post is NOT about "Artistic Integrity", nor it tries to propose another angle from which to see the current ending. It is only about common sense and logic and it goes beyond different opinions, so we can come to a consensus; you are more then welcome to post your replies and discuss what you think about this, and I will try to reply in detail to every concern etc. but please try to be civil and respectful or I will simply ignore you).
[/quote]

Here we go again!

[QuoteBioware has shipped ME3. The game has been played by many, many people and it will continue to be played (no matter what) by many others to come. Many of these same people have already finished the game and have their opinions on it, whatever it is. Some don't like the ending, some like it, some hate it, some love it. It doesn't matter where the majority stands, there are different opinions on the same, as it's perfectly fine this to happen.[/quote]

<sigh>

No. Every single poll is about the same. About 83% hate it outright. Less then 5% have any kind of Positive feedback. Many of these polls are on This Very Forum.

[quote]Now while some of you, as individuals, can also not care about the others' opinions and would like the story to end as you prefer, Bioware cannot do the same.[/quote]

For the love of pete. NO! We want the story to make SENSE. We do not want a Deux Ex Mechania in the last five minutes of "Story". Bioware CAN do this. There are several ways they can do this.

They may choose *Not* to do this; but there is nothing stopping them.

[quote] You, as individuals, have all the right if you want to complain and either do what in your power to have Bioware listen to your opinion, also if this opinion goes against the one of the others in practice, but Bioware (as a company that has to care for ALL of its fans, and not just some of them) cannot. [/quote]

Whether or not you arge the duty is to their investors or their fans; I'm not sure it matters. If they wish to sell more games in the future, they need to provide quality content when that is purchased.

In any event, with such a strong majority, you are choosing to alienate the majority of fans to appease the smaller portion.

You really think this a good idea?


[Qupte]As I said, Bioware cannot. That would be like admitting that one part of the audience (those that don't like the ending) have an opinion that matters more than those that like it. It would be like admitting one part of the audience better than the other. [/quote]

It's bigger. A lot bigger. Don't try to deny that. Again.

In general, I would argue it's almost certainly more passionate. We are the ones that, until this debacle, showed up at midnight to buy games, sight and reviews unseen. We are the ones that promoted their games on websites like Fark. 

Unless something is done, we're going to be the ones reminding people about the new awfulness of their storytelling, and urging people to stay away.

[quote]Morover this decision will be based on purely arbritary parameters; if there would be reliable and fool-proof statistics (admitting they would ever exists) of what kind of people like/dislike the ending, either if morally questionable, they could base the decision on some kind of basis (as for example if those that don't like the ending are of a certain kind of demographic, or they have an higher IQ or similar idiocies). It would be still completely inappropriate and bad, but as it is now it's even worse, because the decision would be done on completely arbitrary parameters, i.e. they would have to base who is "better" and who is "right" based only on the kind of opinon they have, a purely arbitrary decision, since opinion is purely subjective. [/quote]

Come one. Stop talking down to us.

[quote]Either if the ending was really "badly written" (questionable, but whatever) this is not, by this point, anymore a plausible parameter (as explained before) on which to base the decision, because also if it is really so, some that now like the ending as it is are tied emotionally to the same, no matter what.[/quote]

(^--- This is one sentence. I should try to diagram this.  )

[quote] Just like if you have a dog from an year and you then discover that it has a genetic disease, a dog breeder cannot propose to change the dog to you just because it has a problem;  you would obviously react not too well to the thing. [/quote]

A dog is not a video game. A video game is not a living person, and no number of synthesis beams can make it one.

[quote] Given this, it is obvious that by this point Bioware cannot change the ending for purely objective motives. You, as an individual can also not show tolerance versus others, but Bioware has to consider all the users as having the same importance one another.

[/quote]

Given what? Poorly argued motives?

Bioware not only should not consider all users of the same importance, but they should also consider the sheer quantity of users on both sides. Scales are tipped, here, sir.

[/b][quote]EDIT: The thing, then, doesn't work in both ways. Some of you (usually the most determined on disliking the ending) can think that not changing the ending would be anyway frustrating a part of the audience, but the two arguments are completely different. The product shipped in a certain way, the ending is already as it is. In the case of changing an ending now that would mean doing an action that (alienates) a part of the audience, that's completely different than simply having people dislike what you did to begin with. The product of Bioware at the moment of shipping already generated a shift in opinion, what would create an arbitrary decision on that same different opinion would be doing an active action that prefers one point of view to the other, that's completely different from having people like/dislike the product you produced from the start. If you dislike a product it doesn't mean that the authors are actively frustrating your opinion, it just means that they produced something you don't like. A thing completely different is, instead, if the authors do an active action to frustrate what you think.[/quote]

Would you like to see any of the creative team actively try to defend their product?

I know I would. It'd be the first time.

If Bioware would like to continue to sell us games, they need to actively repair the brokeness of THIS game.

Or it will be the last time.

[quote] The only thing they can do to try to please those who don't like the ending is what they are doing, i.e. expand the ending there is already to provide more closure (a thing many are complaining about). Expecting something more would just mean that you pretend something that cannot happen, and not only for technical motivations (as it can be "artistic intergrity" or the fact that the ending has a theme behind that many don't know) but, primarily, just for the sake's and respect of the audience in its totality. [/quote]

No! WE DO NOT WANT CLOSURE. The current ending is not in need of POLISHING. It needs to be FIXED. And it's something they CAN do. Fallout 3 did it. Asura's Wrath is doing it.

If they wish to respect the Passionate Majority of their audience, it is something they MUST do. (If they choose not to, then they will not be rejecting the Passionate Majority.)

[quote] I will add another thing about this: also if this solution can seem the best of both worlds given what I said (and so a move of Bioware has done just for their personal end), this move is, in fact, anyway a gamble because it risks in any case to alienate some users that like the ending exactly as it is (without the full closure). So Bioware it is actually risking this to please a part of the audience, and this is not at all "not listening" because, if you think about it, it's always a risky move from their point of view. They can end up not pleasing nor one nor the other spectrums of the audience. So, please, consider what I say here. You insist they don't care but what they are doing shows the exact contrary. [/quote]

They've all ready managed that. They could have released a narrative coherent ending in the first place. We wouldn't be having this discussion. The base is broken. They can salvage it, if they've got the guts.

[quote] [b]To finish I want to reply in detail to some of the most used examples of "Changing the work it has been done before so there's nothing wrong with it" to let you see that the things are not exactly as you put them to be:


- Sherlock Holmes, Doyle: I usually laugh inside myself every time people quote this example because they are actually providing proof of the opposite point they are trying to make. Apart the fact that resurrecting a character is not properly the same thing as changing the ending (because the former ending remains the same, you just add to it; it is true that you indirectly change it but it is different than a direct change in the sense that you can decide if to go a route or the other) then Doyle was harshly criticized by critics and fellow artists for the inconsistency and for alienating a part of the audience in doing this. So much, in fact, that even today his name is not considered well by fellow writers just for what he did, and he is quoted many times just for the contrary evidence of what people want to prove it: i.e. of the BAD it happens when you alienate a part of your readers.[/quote]

(sigh) CITATION NEEDED!

[quote] - Fallout 3: the ending has NOT changed as people want Bioware to change the ending of ME. It is just a sort of "expansion" as it can be the EC, because the outcomes are exactly the same, you get only to have some more decisions on them. [/quote]

You're missing the point. Fallout 3's original ending was broken in ways that differ from ME3's ending.  Why is it dangerous to go in there? Radation. My buddy, a Super Mutant, is immune to the stuff, he's standing RIGHT HERE. Why can't I have HIM go push the button?

Really, that's all it took.

ME3's in a different situation. We've got a sizable majority arguing if the ending sequence is even real! You didn't get that in Fallout 3, and for good reason. The brokenness of character wasn't there, just the missing option.

[quote]The ending has not changed at all, the same things happens in their context, the difference is only on the execution of the same, nothing more.[/quote]

Did... did you even read anything about what was written? The ending changed in exactly the correct amount. If you send in the Super Mutant, you don't get irradiated. It's simple, logical.

[quote]- Alan Wake: same thing. While many people called the ending a cliff-hanger it has not changed. The authors just expanded on the same and provided more closure, just this. Nothing different than what's happening with the EC for Bioware.[/quote]

Really? Alan Wake?

The original game, without the 2 DLCs, ends on an elipses. "Alan's journey through the night would continue..."

Alan wake was a beginning. Not an ending. (Also, for the record, Alan Wake and Alan Wake's American Nightmare are both excellent and people should go play them.)

[quote]- Great Expectations, Dickens: he never changed anything at all for the audience. The endings were already decided to be two.[/quote]

It only has one ending in the original publication. Not an example.

The Mystery of Edwin Drood would be a better one.

Modifié par TreguardD, 01 mai 2012 - 11:34 .

[JBONE27]

Amioran wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...
Thank you for proving my point.

Your point? Of what the hell are you talking about?

I didn't either consider your ramble because it was pure idiocy and now you either say to me I "proved" your point that, apart it doesn't either exist to begin with (because you would neither be capable to understand if the ending is a mistake or not neither if your life depended on it, I can bet how much you want on this), was completely different than what I wrote.

Sometimes I am astounded on the ability of comprehension of people in this forum.

You were talking about the ending being a mistake and Bioware shows weakness and blah blah blah, I wrote above that this is completely irrelevant given how what you call "mistake" is still a matter of opinion, and you now say that I "proved your point" in saying this (also if it had nothing to do with what you said and on the contrary proving exactly the opposite).

Oh well...

Person A: Today is a good day.
Person B: No, today it is a very bad day for me.
Person A: You cannot say it is a bad day in general, then, but only that it's you that are in a bad mood.
Person B: Thank you for proving my point.

It's so stimulating debating with people of your intelligence, really.

I'm saying that at least 80 percent of customers (according to most polls) say the ending was a mistake, which you are unwilling to admit.  

I'm saying that there are plot holes large enough to drive a mack truck through, which you are unwilling to admit.

 I'm saying that Bioware broke the promises made to the customers, which you are unwilling to admit was a mistake (I'm not sure whether or not you are willing to admit that they did).

I'm saying that deus ex machina, according to most writers and litterary scholars, is the laziest way to end a story, which you are unwilling to admit.

And it's more like,
Person A: Today was a great day for everyone.
Person B: What the hell are you talking about, a hospital was bombed 3 blocks from here, a guy shot up an enitre elementery school, and I found out I have cancer.
Person A: Yeah, but it was still a great day for everyone.
Person B: No, most people around here think today suckedl, and you're unwilling to admit it.
Person A: Well today was great, I'm right, you're wrong, LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.

Modifié par JBONE27, 01 mai 2012 - 11:48 .

[translationninja]

DJCubed wrote...

 I don't wan't them to completely change the ending primarily because I've already seen it.  It's already happened.  Sort of a "what has been seen, cannot be unseen" type of attitude.  That's just me personally of course.  

I also fall into (probably) an extreme minority who thought the ending was interesting, but there was not nearly enough explanation.  It was unfinished, but interesting.  

To me changing the ending completely just doesn't seem right.  It'd be like if a girl asked me if I thought she was fat, and I said yes.  She gets upset, so I say "No, no, no, I never said that".
This is all just my own feeling on the issue, I know a lot of people disagree, so it would be nice for them to have the option of a completely different ending altogether. 

This I can agree with. I have no problem whatsoever with people having the option of not having their ending changed (a.k.a optional new ending DLC), now where is  my option to a changed ending?

The only problem I have is with people that think it is at their option to demand that other people don't get an option themselves.

The blatant hipocrisy is evident in each and every assertion OP makes.

Not only are there blatant hipocrisies, but also fundamental fallacies in his logic.

He keeps asserting that there are these alleged vast masses of silent masses that really like the ending, and to augment that argument he keeps bringing up vague references to the 1-in-7 and 1-in-9 rules. However, these are colloquial references at best, for these dynamics change once a "liked" product is under attack.

It is true that dissatisfied customers are more vocal than satisfied ones, however, it is also established that if a product that has indeed a satisfied customer base comes under attack (unjustly), the satisfied customer base will turn vocal.

In other words, satisfied customers are not as eager to take to public forums/channels to express their satisfaction by a certain factor (there are several schools of thought ranging from 1/3 to 1/7 up to 1/9) however, if the product they like is under attack they tend to seek avenues to disagree.

By this logic, even if there were "masses" of "silent armies" that actually like the ending, they would have rallied to support their "beloved" product by now.

So the question is....where are they???

OP seems to seek comfort in "imagining" that there must be a very larger very satisifed customer base without having made so much as a space hamster "schmweep" over all this. Basically he is projecting his felt "need" that these other guys don't get what they want on some imaginary vast population of like-minded "ending likers".

Modifié par translationninja, 02 mai 2012 - 05:23 .

[Tirigon]

slyguy200 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

And another thing about all of the people that are not active out of the copies sold. I would bet that most people actually don't give a ****.

Which is enough reason not to give a **** about their opinions either, I think.

Well, of the people that do give a ****, anti enders are the largest group.

That was my point.

[Seishoujyo]

Bioware did something really lame but they won't admit it. Period. Yeah you can probably call it artistic integrity or whatever.

It's everytime the same thing with each publisher or dev.

[Lincoln MuaDib]

translationninja wrote...


This I can agree with. I have no problem whatsoever with people having the option of not having their ending changed (a.k.a optional new ending DLC), now where is  my option to a changed ending?

The only problem I have is with people that think it is at their option to demand that other people don't get an option themselves.

The blatant hipocrisy is evident in each and every assertion OP makes.

So very true!

Of course, not everyone that loves the ending wants to strip the option of changing it via optional DLC from others- I'm not going to paint an entire group that disagrees with me as being idiots.

That woulkd be stupid.

[Amioran]

translationninja wrote...
The only problem I have is with people that think it is at their option to demand that other people don't get an option themselves.

And I already explained all about this perfectly. It is just you that don't care to read.

Those who like the ending don't get an option either just because the product it is as it is.

If Bioware ships the product and does nothing this doens't mean that they care more about those that like the ending, this is completely non sequitur and just how you like to see the thing, but IT MAKES NO SENSE.

You are saying that I'm being an hypocrite but you continually twist the thing as you like without neither pondering about it.

If I make a product and some people like or it and some don't and some of them require a change and I do nothing, doing this doesn't mean that I support people that like the product, because supporting requires an active action. Simply keeping the product as it is it's not the same as supporting a point of view.

Will you ever understand a simple logic as this? Who ever knows.

As for those who like the ending giving you the option to have another one, would you do the same in their place? That's all the question. I'm sure you will, how not. I'm sure you would be perfectly happy of Bioware losing time on something you disagree completely about; in fact, you never protested for something as this in the past, isn't it?

translationninja wrote...
The blatant hipocrisy is evident in each and every assertion OP makes.

Not only are there blatant hipocrisies, but also fundamental fallacies in his logic.

Yes, yes, it is me. The problem, on the contrary, is that you want to twist things as you like to see them, example as above.

There are no fallacies in what I say. Only an idiot, or one that want to see only what s/he cares to see, can think that since a company keep the product as they shipped it means that they are supporting those that like the product, it is a completely non sequitur and it makes no sense whatsoever, just from the simple fact of what supporting requires, i.e. an ACTIVE (can you understand this?) action in the matter.

translationninja wrote...
He keeps asserting that there are these alleged vast masses of silent masses that really like the ending, and to augment that argument he keeps bringing up vague references to the 1-in-7 and 1-in-9 rules. However, these are colloquial references at best, for these dynamics change once a "liked" product is under attack.

As always completely twisting what I say. I just keep saying that NOBODY can be sure of the REAL picture. You continue to quote these forums or youtube or metacritic as evidence of something when they obviously aren't.

Do you know how many copies were sold of ME3? Well then, do the percentual between these people and those who bought the games (and we have only estimates only in those) and you will see what I mean.

How can you be sure, as a company, that you are really supporting the MAJORITY of individuals if you CANNOT know the real picture?

translationninja wrote...
It is true that dissatisfied customers are more vocal than satisfied ones, however, it is also established that if a product that has indeed a satisfied customer base comes under attack (unjustly), the satisfied customer base will turn vocal.

Not at all. This is your complete assumption and it's not how things works in reality.

You can see the proof of this either in real life and in politics. It doesn't work this way. This is completely cheap psichology that's not true at all.

And this is one aspect of it, the other is that simply the majority of users care nothing at all about entering in forums etc. to debate something they already know (as the game they are playing) if not for active uses (as looking at walkthroughs, videos of gameplay etc.) and not certainly to bicker with people that whine (that are plenty on the web in any case).

translationninja wrote...
In other words, satisfied customers are not as eager to take to public forums/channels to express their satisfaction by a certain factor (there are several schools of thought ranging from 1/3 to 1/7 up to 1/9) however, if the product they like is under attack they tend to seek avenues to disagree.

I'm sorry but this is wrong. It depends on many things, one of which is in fact the plausibility of the attack. If one think the attack as an idiocy that neither an imbecile would care about then you don't need to defend anything.

And apart this, as I said, all you insist to bring on the table is just two cents psichology that don't work that way in real life in many cases.

translationninja wrote...
By this logic, even if there were "masses" of "silent armies" that actually like the ending, they would have rallied to support their "beloved" product by now.

Not at all.

You should study a little psichology, my friend, because it is obvious you understand almost anything about it and yet you pretend to be an expert in it (as it always happen).

Human behaviour it's not so simple. It's not "you attack a thing and I defend it". It depends on the thing, it depends on the type of attacks, it depends if you either care, it depends if you think you have a chance, it depends on if you feel good while doing it in front of others, and many many other things.

You see, you continue to insist I make no sense but your proofs are nothing but idiocies that you know almost anything about, so where the reality stands?

Should Bioware base their full picture on something as this? I cannot believe you are really serious. Either study a little more the things you are going to talk about or don't insist that you are right saying things that have no value whatsoever.

Rarely in all my life I've ever heard psichology so badly used and without either understanding almost anything about the field but pretending to make a theory based on it.

I guess this is the modus operandi of this forum: take something you don't know anything about, make it a proof of your cause, try to pass as an expert on it, if someone point you that start saying s/he makes no sense, profit.

Modifié par Amioran, 02 mai 2012 - 09:49 .

[vania z]

You are just doing it wrong. From the beginning. You can't fix your post, you should rewrite it completely. Just like the ending.

[Roobz82]

You're already capitulating, blamig human nature and name calling.

The battle was lost long ago.

[Amioran]

Tirigon wrote...
no, it is based on a poll with 70000 voters and 80% "the ending sucks".

The only thing that is up to my opinion there is whether 80% qualifies as a majority, but that is an opinion I wont be brought away from.

Good.

70.000 in confront to how many sold copies? 4, 5 or even 6 millions?

You do the percentual.

And then, it is interesting to note the percentual of those liking the ending, i.e. 20%. Looking at these forums you have the impression that no more than 1, 2 at most 5 people like the ending, where all the rest simply hate it. This very high percentual, if you consider this, actually proves my point, that you cannot be sure of the real picture.

If even in a forum as this, where you cannot see almost anybody who like the ending you can find 20% of people that like it, it make you see how things are not so easy.

And, btw, here it goes to be bin the "proof" of the poster above, i.e. that people that like the ending should defend it. As you can see it's not so, because people that defend the ending in these forums are much less than 20% of those that attack it, and yet the percentual is proof that they exist and don't defend it at all.

Let's see what he will invent next.

[AkiKishi]

Amioran wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Amioran wrote...


I guess some can be tolerant about this, but seeing the way people behave generally I would not bet on the majority doing the same.

But, considering the vast majority of people who want the ending changed or fixed, that is more a reason to change it rather than to leave it.

Again, your "majority" is based only on the vocality of the people. It is not said surely that it's really the majority. And also if it is, a minority can become easily a majority (in this unproved sense) if it becomes completely vocal and angry about a thing (as it has happened many times).

One motive why so many people complain about the ending is not only to be foundable on the fact that they dislike the ending in itself, but on the fact that they see others complain about it. This gives them reason to complain themselves. Probably if nobody else would complain many would not start to complain either.

It is human nature. A thing is starting a thing by yourself, another is aggregating to others doing the same.

The thing can happen also for the other point of view of the argument. Now they are silent but if there's a reason to start complaining and someone will do that you cannot anticipate what it will happen, just because you don't know (given that they are silent) how many they are.

They can be none, or very little, but they can be a little that becomes a lot or they can be the majority to start with (and that would be total chaos, then).

And yours is based on blind faith and the idea that you are somehow right regardless of evidence.

Either people who don't want the ending changed, don't care about it, or don't care enough to be vocal. Either way it's lose/lose for your vocal minority idea.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 02 mai 2012 - 08:52 .

[Amioran]

Roobz82 wrote...

You're already capitulating, blamig human nature and name calling.

The battle was lost long ago.

You cannot win (or either lose) a battle where the other bring nonsense to the table.

It is obvious that you always lose (or win), because you cannot bring sense in a fool.

If there was a way to talk of concrete things then one could win and another would lose. In this way it's impossible because people simply talk of things they know almost anything about, bringing proofs that are completely inexistent (as it is proven in the post about the percentuals, above) to just have a point.

You just run in circles.

If people would debate only of things they know, bringing evidence for the things they are SURE about then it would be all another thing.

As it is now it is mostly a battle of nerves. You say things that make perfect sense and the other replies with things that make any, and since people in the background are biased (as you) they anyway cannot either notice the difference.

[AkiKishi]

Amioran wrote...
Good.

70.000 in confront to how many sold copies? 4, 5 or even 6 millions?

You do the percentual.

There are 70 million people in the UK give or take and they poll within 3-10% accuracy on samples of 1000.

Really overestimating the numbers sold there.

[Amioran]

BobSmith101 wrote...
And yours is based on blind faith and the idea that you are somehow right regardless of evidence.

Not at all. Look at my post in reply to Trigon, above.

You will see that what I say it is proven by data. If it happens so in a context that's clearly in favor of one side logically you can understand how things can be totally different in another context.

This is not blind faith, this is simply common sense.

You just want to see the thing from your narrow point of view and you don't consider everything. I do the contrary.

BobSmith101 wrote...
[/b]Either people who don't want the ending changed, don't care about it, or don't care enough to be vocal. Either way it's lose/lose for your vocal minority idea.

Just because you stay silent it doesn't mean you don't exist.

And since usually those that have to take a decision for real know perfectly this (and are a bit more intelligent to include the full picture and not just a part of the same) and so it's not lose/lose at all for those who do so. In fact you can see it in practice.

Doesn't seem to me that the EC is a lose/lose result for the "minority".

[Amioran]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Amioran wrote...
Good.

70.000 in confront to how many sold copies? 4, 5 or even 6 millions?

You do the percentual.

There are 70 million people in the UK give or take and they poll within 3-10% accuracy on samples of 1000.

Really overestimating the numbers sold there.

Really disregarding everything I said after.

But apart this, you expect less than 4 millions units of ME3 sold?

Whatever you want.

[AkiKishi]

Amioran wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
And yours is based on blind faith and the idea that you are somehow right regardless of evidence.

Not at all. Look at my post in reply to Trigon, above.

You will see that what I say it is proven by data. If it happens so in a context that's clearly in favor of one side logically you can understand how things can be totally different in another context.

This is not blind faith, this is simply common sense.

You just want to see the thing from your narrow point of view and you don't consider everything. I do the contrary.

BobSmith101 wrote...
[/b]Either people who don't want the ending changed, don't care about it, or don't care enough to be vocal. Either way it's lose/lose for your vocal minority idea.

Just because you stay silent it doesn't mean you don't exist.

And since usually those that have to take a decision for real know perfectly this (and are a bit more intelligent to include the full picture and not just a part of the same) and so it's not lose/lose at all for those who do so. In fact you can see it in practice.

Doesn't seem to me that the EC is a lose/lose result for the "minority".

But it does mean you don't care. People who are vocal care enough to be vocal, there is your common sense.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 02 mai 2012 - 09:03 .

[AkiKishi]

[quote]Amioran wrote...

There are 70 million people in the UK give or take and they poll within 3-10% accuracy on samples of 1000.

Really overestimating the numbers sold there.[/quote]

Really disregarding everything I said after.

But apart this, you expect less than 4 millions units of ME3 sold?

Whatever you want.
[/quote]

Shipped and sold are two very different numbers.

Last NDP figures I saw were 1.3 million in the US. That's actually sold to people, not just shipped by EA.

4 million is still a far cry from 6 hyperbole much? 

[Amioran]

BobSmith101 wrote...
But it does mean you don't care.

No, it just mean that you don't care to discuss with people you consider making no sense, for example (there are many others), not necessarilyt that you don't care about the product.

There are many motives why one can keep silent and very few of these are to be tied to the fact that you don't really care about the thing attacked. Again, cheap psichology that's not true at all.

[Amioran]

BobSmith101 wrote...
Shipped and sold are two very different numbers.

Last NDP figures I saw were 1.3 million in the US. That's actually sold to people, not just shipped by EA.

4 million is still a far cry from 6 hyperbole much? 

1. Now do you resort to fighting with assumptions? I'm sorry but no matter what you say, looking at the previous trends, I cannot believe that less than 4 millions bought ME3. You can think otherwise, fine; let's agree to disagree.

2. I said: "4, 5 or even 6", it is not the same as saying "6" because the 6 it is highly hypotetical. Do you really like to twist what I say just to have a point, isn't it?

Modifié par Amioran, 02 mai 2012 - 09:13 .

[AkiKishi]

Amioran wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
But it does mean you don't care.

No, it just mean that you don't care to discuss with people you consider making no sense, for example (there are many others), not necessarilyt that you don't care about the product.

There are many motives why one can keep silent and very few of these are to be tied to the fact that you don't really care about the thing attacked. Again, cheap psichology that's not true at all.

A poll does not require a discussion it requires a click. If people can't be bothered to do that it means they don't care about issue on the poll.

Occams razor.

[AkiKishi]

Amioran wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
Shipped and sold are two very different numbers.

Last NDP figures I saw were 1.3 million in the US. That's actually sold to people, not just shipped by EA.

4 million is still a far cry from 6 hyperbole much? 

1. Now do you resort to fighting with assumptions? I'm sorry but no matter what you say, looking at the previous trends, I cannot believe that less than 4 millions bought ME3. You can think otherwise, fine; let's agree to disagree.

2. I said: "4, 5 or even 6", it is not the same as saying "6" because the 6 it is highly hypotetical. Do you really like to twist what I say just to have a point, isn't it?

NDP figures are not assumptions. They are statistics.

What you believe to be true does not matter.

You typed 4,5,6 without checking. That's your problem not mine.