510 réponses à ce sujet

[Amioran]

slyguy200 wrote...

Amioran wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...
Now you know how people feel when discussing things with you. 

Ok, ok, you are right.

X: The sun is bright this morning.
Y: What you say makes no sense, the sun is not white. Of what the hell are you talking about? All you say makes no sense.
X: I never said a thing that the sun is white, why do you put words in my mouth I never said? Morover the sun can be white depending on the situation
Y: Now you twist the point, isn't it? I see you like to do it. I never implied that the sun cannot be white but that it is not white in this moment. You so like to be dismissive, isn't it?
X: So now I am the one that twist things, I see, when I never ever stated a thing as that to begin with.
Y: You are impossible, I understand when people say that it's impossible to talk with you.

Whatever you want.

Mmmm, no that isn't what he is saying.

It's a methaphor.

I really hope you do this purposedly and it's not the real capability of your thinking.
I really hope that for you.

[phat0817]

I read most of your post OP(I'm sorry that's a lot of text and working makes it hard to read all of it) you keep mentioning that Bioware is looking out for all fans and I just don't find that true.

Companies will always side with majority not the minority when profit is involved. Example if 100 people say they don't like the ending and 10 do they well simple common sense says 100 is more money in my pocket I'll try make them happy.


Which is why Bioware is making the EC. Its there hope there be able to please some of the angry crowd. I don't know much about the gaming industry but the money necessary might be just to much on Bioware's budget to redo the end.


I think at this point there hopping to keep some of fan base but aren't excepting to save all of them and expect to pick up more fan bases with new games as time go's on.


If somebody else brought up this point I just made or I missed the point of your post(lack of reading all of it) just ignore what I wrote.

[Amioran]

slyguy200 wrote...
They are just saying it how it is. You twist words alot, they did it but only to prove a point.

Ah, so now they did it to prove a point, isn't it?

As I said, if I were you (in general) I would be really ashamed of myself.

You have no dignity whatsoever. You just care that you are against the ending, you dont care at all about what's being said, you propably neither read it.

If person A is talking about a thing that's supposedly in favor of the ending, all s/he say becomes automatically wrong, not matter what. If person B talks about something against the ending, all s/he says becomes automatically the best thing in the world.

It doesn't matter minimally if, for example, person B talks of things that have no value whatsoever, it doesn't matter at all if what s/he says is wrong or right. It must be right so it is.

As I said, you don't have the minimal dignity, neither with yourself.
Do you want someone "condiscending"? Now you have it.

Modifié par Amioran, 02 mai 2012 - 04:07 .

[Amioran]

slyguy200 wrote...
Ad-hominem, dismissed.

As I said, you don't know that ad hominem means.

slyguy200 wrote...
Explain the metaphor, if you will.

It's self explanatory. It is the same thing that happened put in other words.

Now can you go bore your mommy instead of me?

[CerberusCheerleader]

Amioran wrote...

CerberusCheerleader wrote...
Is that what you are saying? 

In your words, yes.

But you are too much soft on it.

You can be sure that when a fire exists you don't want to add fuel to it.

As for how you feel about a new alternative ending, I have so far suggested a total dislike and a somewhat dislike on your part, both of which you (interestingly ) somewhat rejected. I deduce from that a mostly dislike, is that correct?

As for why you would feel that way I have suggested to you that it has mostly to do with the ending hatred many people have shown and I think you have somewhat confirmed that. But just to be certain: imagine a world where everyone would have liked the ending, and Bioware just announced that they are working on a SP dlc which will feature a new alternative ending. In that case, would you have been opposed to that? I think you wouldn't have been at all. Is that correct?

In other words: they cannot add a new ending because there are so many people who want one so badly 

Modifié par CerberusCheerleader, 03 mai 2012 - 02:54 .

[Amioran]

slyguy200 wrote...
There you go again with the ad-hominem, you went away from the point and are trying to discredit me rather than disprove me, by insulting my intelligence and age.

I did disprove you, explaining why it was a methaphor. You dismissed it.

Now, please, I repeat, can you go to bore your mommy instead of me?

[XTR3M3]

Amioran wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...


Now you know how people feel when discussing things with you. 

QFT
you just said what we all have been thinking.

Guys, are you serious?

I can understand that you are biased, but you cannot say a thing as that.

Have you read what's happened? How can you say that in this case I'm the one that twist things is really beyond me, seriously.

Why don't you try to be a little more objective, for God's sake? Do you think it does good to your cause seeing how you behave, that you cannot either see the reality of a situation just because you have to see things in a certain way? I would be so ashamed of myself if I did act the way you act. Have you not a little of dignity?

Or I am being trolled hard (it can be) or the reality is that something so low I never expected. I expected flames, I expected people twisting things, but not people that just because they had to be against me completely negated reality for this.

I assumed people could be at last a mimimum objective to see if a reasoning was ineherently flawed, or when another was saying wrong things no matter from what "part" s/he was.

Probably I was wrong.

Why do we have to be objective? We don't need to see things from your point of view to have a valid point. Your arguments like "alienating part of the fanbase by changing the ending" is flawed. A for profit company that ignores the majority to keep from offending the minority is committing financial suicide....and, point of fact, I don't believe for a second that a majority of the minority that actually liked the ending wouldn't mind an alternate ending.

some of your responses make me want to post this video...
www.youtube.com/watch
I go back and forth between wanting to post that and thinking maybe english isn't your first language which might explain some of your answers.

here is a little math problem for you......consider....
is it all of us that is wrong? or possibly could it be just you?

[Amioran]

CerberusCheerleader wrote...
As for how you feel about a new alternative ending, I have so far suggested a total dislike and a somewhat dislike on your part, both of which you (interestingly ) somewhat rejected. I deduce from that a mostly dislike, is that correct?

I didn't dismiss it, it is just that this thing is not about me, but what I think it will happen.

For what it concerns me personally I'm against anything a priori. I have no problem with anything as that, but I would feel it a wrong move from Bioware. Still, this will not make me an intolerant person as many here and I will be happy for those that get to play what they like.

CerberusCheerleader wrote...
But just to be certain: imagine a world where everyone would have liked the ending, and Bioware just announced that they are working on a SP dlc which will feature a new alternative ending. In that case, would you have been opposed to that? I think you wouldn't have been at all. Is that correct?

As I said, I personally would oppose it neither in the present case, it is not about me the thing, it is about what I think about the issue in general terms.

CerberusCheerleader wrote...
In other words: they cannot add a new ending because there are so many people who want one so badly 

No, it is more: they cannot add a new ending because people that like it the way it is will complain for the same motives (from another angle) of why people are now complaining for the ending.

In short: Bioware, you must do what I want.

[Amioran]

XTR3M3 wrote...
Why do we have to be objective? We don't need to see things from your point of view to have a valid point. Your arguments like "alienating part of the fanbase by changing the ending" is flawed.

 
I wasn't talking here about my points in general, I was talking about what you did reply to in the specific. I.e. what it happened with the guy.

XTR3M3 wrote...
A for profit company that ignores the majority to keep from offending the minority is committing financial suicide....and, point of fact, I don't believe for a second that a majority of the minority that actually liked the ending wouldn't mind an alternate ending.

And again you continue with this talk of "majority". Do you understand you have no PROOF of that? Do you get it?

An estimate based on highly questionable parameters (as what you propose) it is not the same as reality.

Neither if Bioware had market research done well they could have a full picture of it, and do you pretend to have the same just looking at the web? As you like. But seriously, thats not how things works.

XTR3M3 wrote...
here is a little math problem for you......consider....
is it all of us that is wrong? or possibly could it be just you?

Considering your behaviour, your inability to have a serious debate, your reading only what you want to read, your inability to see other points of view and to consider them fairly, plus your incapacity for humilty (in talking of things you don't know pretending to be experts) if I would have to place a bet I would know where it will be.

Modifié par Amioran, 02 mai 2012 - 04:26 .

[XTR3M3]

Amioran wrote...
No, it is more: they cannot add a new ending because people that like it the way it is will complain for the same motives (from another angle) of why people are now complaining for the ending.

In short: Bioware, you must do what I want.

It is stuff like this that just makes me shake my head. That logic has bigger holes in it than the ending of ME3 did. There is no way the miniscule amount of people that liked the ending AND wouldn't want content added to the ending would have a voice bigger than a gnat and they would get ignored by BioWare completely. You say you understand corporate thinking, but clearly you don't.

EDIT
we did consider you points of view fairly. We just pointed out the holes in your logic that even Helen Keller could have noticed. by the way OP, did you even play the game? why isn't yours registered? If you care so much, why didn't you even register your game? It is very easy.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 02 mai 2012 - 04:28 .

[Amioran]

XTR3M3 wrote...
There is no way the miniscule amount of people that liked the ending AND wouldn't want content added to the ending would have a voice bigger than a gnat and they would get ignored by BioWare completely. You say you understand corporate thinking, but clearly you don't.

The miniscule is proved wrong by the 20% in the poll here. If it is 20% in a place where the majority are anti-enders (so the context is completely in favor of them) then you can expect some surprise in the real full picture.

But I assume you just want to consider what you like to consider. I'm not telling you that's not as you say, it can be indeed that the pro-enders are really a little percentual, I'm just trying to make you consider the fact that you CANNOT draw a conclusion as this with the data you have.

Mathematic is not an opinion, and so, in turn, statistics that are based on the same aren't. If the base parameters are faulted a completely flawed figure willl come out of it, and when you are a business company you cannot afford it.

XTR3M3 wrote...
we did consider you points of view fairly. We just pointed out the holes in your logic that even Helen Keller could have noticed. by the way OP, did you even play the game? why isn't yours registered? If you care so much, why didn't you even register your game? It is very easy.

Excuse me but all these "pointed out the holes" I didn't see at all. Must be me. The only thing I've seen is people that just after a post begin to scream: "no it's as I say, you are wrong".

As for my game, the copy I have is not mine but of my little brother. I played that, but I don't own a copy myself. I usually never buy games for myself.

Modifié par Amioran, 02 mai 2012 - 04:32 .

[Artemis_Entrari]

Amioran wrote...


Ah, so now they did it to prove a point, isn't it?
---

Do you want someone "condiscending"? Now you have it.

I wasn't "trolling" you.  I was doing exactly what you do every time you respond to a topic.  Throw a big wall of text about an opinion that may or may not actually refute what is being said, stick with that opinion and insist it's correct and completely factual, all while dismissing what the person I'm quoting is saying as irrelevant or stupid.

As for the condescending part, you do that in almost every single post.  I don't think you can go one or two posts in a row without talking down to the person you're "discussing" things with.  Even if the person is legitimately trying to engage in a friendly discussion and hasn't thrown a single insult at you, you can't help but throw in some kind of comment that makes it sound like you think you're talking to an imbecile.

You didn't want a discussion in this thread.  You wanted to prove how right you are and how wrong anyone who disagrees with you is.

Modifié par Artemis_Entrari, 02 mai 2012 - 04:32 .

[hex23]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

1. Give us some scientific proof and that might be valid. Until then, though, it isn't.

The fact that Bioware admitted that everything "Mass Effect" related is on hold until they deal with the "Extended Cut DLC" should be a massive clue who the majority is. Unless of course you think a multi-million dollar company completely re-directed their development schedule for a vocal minority.

[Tirigon]

Amioran wrote...

Good.

70.000 in confront to how many sold copies? 4, 5 or even 6 millions?

You do the percentual.

And then, it is interesting to note the percentual of those liking the ending, i.e. 20%. Looking at these forums you have the impression that no more than 1, 2 at most 5 people like the ending, where all the rest simply hate it. This very high percentual, if you consider this, actually proves my point, that you cannot be sure of the real picture.

If even in a forum as this, where you cannot see almost anybody who like the ending you can find 20% of people that like it, it make you see how things are not so easy.

And, btw, here it goes to be bin the "proof" of the poster above, i.e. that people that like the ending should defend it. As you can see it's not so, because people that defend the ending in these forums are much less than 20% of those that attack it, and yet the percentual is proof that they exist and don't defend it at all.

Let's see what he will invent next.

"lol it is IMPOSSIBLE that 80% voted for Democrats, they must have manipulated the polls, I am the rightful President even though this sheet says only 20% voted me!!!! That just proves my point that they must have manipulated it!!!111"


Are you serious?!

[Amioran]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...
I wasn't "trolling" you.  I was doing exactly what you do every time you respond to a topic. 

I see, you have taken the hint, isn't it? Now you have the perfect excuse, how profound.

You started the first reply having in mind to do this, sure. Then how icomes that you tried to prove me wrong on a thing you were sure was in a certain way? If you wanted to do something as this from beginning then you would have acted all in another way (as for example attacking me on a point I did actually say for then turning the issue around).

The reality it is only that you, after what I replied, didn't know no more what to say, so the only thing left was to attack the only part of the reply you could attack, and in the process accuse me of "dismissing what you said".

After, when I made you notice this, you had only one way out. The typical "parrot it back".

And now, after some more posts, you have the perfect excuse: "I did it willingly" since somebody gave you the hint a moment ago.

Do you take me for an idiot?

But whatever, as you like.

Anyway my patience is at the limit right now, so it matters very little. Do and pretend what you prefer.

[Amioran]

Tirigon wrote...
"lol it is IMPOSSIBLE that 80% voted for Democrats, they must have manipulated the polls, I am the rightful President even though this sheet says only 20% voted me!!!! That just proves my point that they must have manipulated it!!!111"
[/i][/b]

Are you serious?!

Where did you extrapolate something as that? Where for God's sake?????

I really cannot understand, really.

I just said that context matters, only this, and that things can change depending on the same. I never invalidated the poll or something as that.

I am really without words.

Whatever, I'm done. There's no way to debate with people that simply neither read what you write at all and sprout continually "conspiracies theories" around no matter what.

Modifié par Amioran, 02 mai 2012 - 04:45 .

[Tirigon]

JustinSaneV2 wrote...

Daddy555 wrote...

artistic integrity LOL nothing about that ending resembled any form of art ive ever known... a turd can not be polished and is not art for dam sure

Actually...

http://en.wikipedia....y_fluids_in_art 

Actually it is well known that the main difference between art and crap is how much some idiot pays for it.

[XTR3M3]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Amioran wrote...


Ah, so now they did it to prove a point, isn't it?
---

Do you want someone "condiscending"? Now you have it.

I wasn't "trolling" you.  I was doing exactly what you do every time you respond to a topic.  Throw a big wall of text about an opinion that may or may not actually refute what is being said, stick with that opinion and insist it's correct and completely factual, all while dismissing what the person I'm quoting is saying as irrelevant or stupid.

As for the condescending part, you do that in almost every single post.  I don't think you can go one or two posts in a row without talking down to the person you're "discussing" things with.  Even if the person is legitimately trying to engage in a friendly discussion and hasn't thrown a single insult at you, you can't help but throw in some kind of comment that makes it sound like you think you're talking to an imbecile.

You didn't want a discussion in this thread.  You wanted to prove how right you are and how wrong anyone who disagrees with you is.

again QFT
the "talking down" you do to people only hurts your arguments. You want people to have "dignity" and yet you talk down to them like a dog if they don't agree with you or point out the holes in your arguments.
In your response to my last comment, you say

The miniscule is proved wrong by the 20% in the poll here. If it is 20%
in a place where the majority are anti-enders (so the context is
completely in favor of them) then you can expect some surprise in the
real full picture.

social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989
that poll shows ONLY 2% like it as is and 6% could be lumped into the "fine as it but want more clarity" club. You try and use polls to prove me wrong and then tell me I can't use polls and then get the stats wrong when you do? Even added together, those are insignificant numbers for a company to worry about offending by adding something that the majority want. Another part of your flawed logic is the assumption that any of them wouldn't like an alternate ending in addition to the ending they got.

That poll I posted a link to is on the primary fan site for the BSN. The disatisfaction with the ending has been unprecedented in the history of gaming. These are facts not in dispute.

[Tirigon]

Amioran wrote...

Where did you extrapolate something as that? Where for God's sake?????

I really cannot understand, really.

I just said that context matters, only this, and that things can change depending on the same. I never invalidated the poll or something as that.

I am really without words.

Whatever, I'm done. There's no way to debate with people that simply neither read what you write at all and sprout continually "conspiracies theories" around no matter what.

You said that the high percentage means the poll is invalid, because aparently it doesnt fit your experiences.

[CerberusCheerleader]

Amioran wrote...

Several things:

1. You may want to re-read your posts after you post them, because spelling errors become a problem when you leave out important words (like not) as in "I'm against anything a priori". That's not a valid english sentence (or is it?) and I assume you mean "I'm NOT against anything a priori". Ok? Make it a little easier on your readers.

2. So, this is not about you, it is purely intelectual? Tell me this than: what makes you differ from the people you assume would be uppset about a new ending? You are also a pro-ender after all. Shouldn't what you say apply to you as well?

3. Let me rephrase that one point from my previous post so that maybe you can answer it:
Imagine a world where everyone would have liked the ending, and Bioware just announced that they are working on a SP dlc which will feature a new alternative ending. In that case, would the people you are trying to defend have been opposed to that? I think they wouldn't have been at all. What do you think?