36 réponses à ce sujet

[King Cousland]

Since the VPC and personality tones are staying (though will likely be tweaked), I thought I'd bring something up that irritated me with the diplomatic tone: It was too cheesy, too wimpy, and...well, this sums up my feelings towards some of the responses (not to be immature, that really does express tmy sentiments best). 

I found that the only tone I really liked in DAII (apart from the sarcastic one for my snarky character) was the aggressive tone. However, I like playing good guys, and the diplomatic tone would be my primary choice. So, a request: make the diplomatic option more realistic, less cheesey, and less cringey. 

[brushyourteeth]

My husband and I are both avid DA:O and DAII re-players. One of our favorite things is to obnoxiously yell MHawke's "BE CAREFUL!" (one of good guy Hawke's battle cries) any time one of us leaves to run to the grocery store.

So even though it was cheesy, we're at least still having fun with it.

While the subject's come up though, I would like to say that I reject the idea that one has to be a good guy in order to be diplomatic. One just has to be smart and give a darn about the repurcussions of their words toward others. For instance, you have to be either really stupid or really ballsy to sass the Arishok. I realize that you had the option to be both a jerk and a diplomat, but they never really seemed to fit together properly. You couldn't just be a cunning, worldly jerk. You always ended up sounding nice by default, no matter how many times I used that angry little red icon in conjunction with the olive branch. In my playthroughs the diplomacy always ended up trumping my Hawke's general love of actually screwing people over.

[Maria Caliban]

Some of us enjoy sounding like a *****. If you don't like sounding like a *****, pick one of the non-***** options.

[BigBad]

None of the options are consistently good.

Diplomatic: P---y
Sarcastic: D--k
Aggressive: A-s

[brushyourteeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Some of us enjoy sounding like a *****. If you don't like sounding like a *****, pick one of the non-***** options.

I may have missed the point, but I was sure this was a thread for people who don't.

[Pasquale1234]

brushyourteeth wrote...

While the subject's come up though, I would like to say that I reject the idea that one has to be a good guy in order to be diplomatic. One just has to be smart and give a darn about the repurcussions of their words toward others. For instance, you have to be either really stupid or really ballsy to sass the Arishok. I realize that you had the option to be both a jerk and a diplomat, but they never really seemed to fit together properly. You couldn't just be a cunning, worldly jerk. You always ended up sounding nice by default, no matter how many times I used that angry little red icon in conjunction with the olive branch. In my playthroughs the diplomacy always ended up trumping my Hawke's general love of actually screwing people over.

There are a lot of problems with associating overall personality definition with tone.

Most of the people I know IRL are quite capable of being diplomatic, snarky, or assertive / aggressive in any given conversation, regardless of their overall morality and personality.  The idea that your character is defined entirely by the conversational tone you use most of the time really grates me.

Some of the most greedy, self-serving jerkfaces who have ever walked the face of this planet are also very charismatic / manipulative and often use diplomacy to achieve their ends.  And an uncertain / desperate sort might use aggression to mask their vulnerability, and just as effectively as someone who is strong and confident.

It's more important to me to choose the actual content of what the protag will say, but that is obfuscated by the paraphrases.  Ultimately you're defining Hawke by whether s/he is predominantly diplomatic, snarky, or assertive, which has little to nothing to do with Hawke's motives, beliefs, values, or character.

[Maria Caliban]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Some of us enjoy sounding like a *****. If you don't like sounding like a *****, pick one of the non-***** options.

I may have missed the point, but I was sure this was a thread for people who don't.

I thought this was a thread about the diplomatic tone.

I must have missed the 'If you disagree with the OP, don't post to the thread' note.

[dragonflight288]

Hawke only has a default personality based on what we choose most frequently. There's nothing stopping us from having Hawke choose another tone and suddenly changing his personality.

[Kail Ashton]

For once i shockingly have to agree with a topic, If diplomatic was anymore politicly correct pussified he'd be all "now arishok i respect your desire to cut off humans heads because of your culture, but i feel you force your own innder issues out on others in a non constructive way, can't we take a hug time out and discuss this?"

[Direwolf0294]

The diplomatic tone should be the same sort of tone Captain Picard uses. Friendly but with a sense of strength and power behind it. Also being diplomatic shouldn't just be about giving someone what ever it is they want, it should be about trying to come to agreements that benifit both parties. In DA2 it was too much about Hawke making concessions to what ever it was the NPC asked for or said. In DA3 you should be able to make NPCs concede to your points of view and enter into the sorts of arrangements you want.

[whykikyouwhy]

It always amuses me when diplomacy is correlated with weakness. And when that perceived 'weakness' is further described as wimpy (or some genitalia-based derogatory term).

Sure, we're talking about *tone* here, but perhaps we can do without the gender-driven pejorative.

[hoorayforicecream]

I saw this posted before, and I concur with it.

Diplomatic: Superman
Sarcastic: Spider-Man
Aggressive: Batman

[brushyourteeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Some of us enjoy sounding like a *****. If you don't like sounding like a *****, pick one of the non-***** options.

I may have missed the point, but I was sure this was a thread for people who don't.

I thought this was a thread about the diplomatic tone.

I must have missed the 'If you disagree with the OP, don't post to the thread' note.

Oh, I guess I just didn't see the part where you disagreed - just the part where you were rude for no apparent reason.

I'm sure it was my mistake.

[Dwarva]

Pasquale1234 wrote...



Most of the people I know IRL are quite capable of being diplomatic, snarky, or assertive / aggressive in any given conversation, regardless of their overall morality and personality.  The idea that your character is defined entirely by the conversational tone you use most of the time really grates me.

The problem for me (and apologies if I've misunderstood how the system works) is that its not just the tone you use most often, but it's actually set from the initial choice you make. I came across this when picking the aggressive tone for my first response to Leandra's moaning while running from the darkspawn. I picked that but then went onto a more diplomatic Hawke but still, come the middle of Act 1 he was still being rude to everyone in the non choice dialogue. I started a thread about it and someone said that he would remain like that until the next Act. Very frustrating. <_<

[Kahninovre]

Might test to see if it does

[LolaLei]

LOL clearly Maria Caliban likes to adopt the **** option on a regular basis!

[Maria Caliban]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Oh, I guess I just didn't see the part where you disagreed - just the part where you were rude for no apparent reason.

I'm sure it was my mistake.

Is it possible that you found my post rude because I used the word ***** in it? I wonder if you're reacting to the swearing as opposed to the substance, which was a general 'You like X but not Y, so do X and leave Y for people who like it.'

I mean...
1. Player doesn't like the diplomatic tone.
2. Player like the aggressive tone.
3. Player wants to play a 'good' guy.

Instead of asking that the aggressive tone allow you to consistently be good, he asks that the diplomatic tone sound like less of a p*****, which suggests he wants it to be more aggressive.

[King Cousland]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

The diplomatic tone should be the same sort of tone Captain Picard uses. Friendly but with a sense of strength and power behind it. Also being diplomatic shouldn't just be about giving someone what ever it is they want, it should be about trying to come to agreements that benifit both parties. In DA2 it was too much about Hawke making concessions to what ever it was the NPC asked for or said. In DA3 you should be able to make NPCs concede to your points of view and enter into the sorts of arrangements you want.

This! 

[King Cousland]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

It always amuses me when diplomacy is correlated with weakness. And when that perceived 'weakness' is further described as wimpy (or some genitalia-based derogatory term).

Sure, we're talking about *tone* here, but perhaps we can do without the gender-driven pejorative.

9 times out of 10, I don't relate diplomacy to weakness. I merely felt that the way some of the diplomatic responses in DAII were worded or spoken had connotations of weakness or cheesiness. 

[Dutchess]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I saw this posted before, and I concur with it.

Diplomatic: Superman
Sarcastic: Spider-Man
Aggressive: Batman

I didn't know Spiderman had a sense of humour. Must have missed it in the movies.

[King Cousland]

Maria Caliban wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Oh, I guess I just didn't see the part where you disagreed - just the part where you were rude for no apparent reason.

I'm sure it was my mistake.

Is it possible that you found my post rude because I used the word ***** in it? I wonder if you're reacting to the swearing as opposed to the substance, which was a general 'You like X but not Y, so do X and leave Y for people who like it.'

I mean...
1. Player doesn't like the diplomatic tone.
2. Player like the aggressive tone.
3. Player wants to play a 'good' guy.

Instead of asking that the aggressive tone allow you to consistently be good, he asks that the diplomatic tone sound like less of a p*****, which suggests he wants it to be more aggressive.

I suppose so. Diplomacy and sounding diplomatic does not and should not equate to sounding submissive. That's not to mean it should be harsh. It should be suggestive, but authoritative and stern when needed. I doubt a majority of players would wish their PC to sound like a ****, which is why I opened the thread (that isn't to say, of course, that  a majority interpreted the diplomatic tone in that way). 

[brushyourteeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Oh, I guess I just didn't see the part where you disagreed - just the part where you were rude for no apparent reason.

I'm sure it was my mistake.

Is it possible that you found my post rude because I used the word ***** in it? I wonder if you're reacting to the swearing as opposed to the substance, which was a general 'You like X but not Y, so do X and leave Y for people who like it.'

I mean...
1. Player doesn't like the diplomatic tone.
2. Player like the aggressive tone.
3. Player wants to play a 'good' guy.

Instead of asking that the aggressive tone allow you to consistently be good, he asks that the diplomatic tone sound like less of a p*****, which suggests he wants it to be more aggressive.

'

See, I actually found your reply this time pretty interesting. I think the rudeness was in both. It goes without saying that if someone doesn't like something they shouldn't do it -- pointing it out only serves to make them feel stupid.

I actually agree with the OP that the diplomatic tone often lead to your Hawke behaving like a girl/boy scout, when instead it would have been much more interesting to have that option lead you toward understanding the targeted npc's point of view. A small detail, but something to work towards so that the lines are less blurred between diplomatic and 'good' guy options.

[LolaLei]

Maria: Nah it's just the general tone in which you address people on here that comes across quite rude at times, tis all.