250 réponses à ce sujet

[Obeded the 2nd]

Stygian1 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

You do realize personalities are still existent in synthesis, and therefore conflict is still possible. There will still be wars--probably between people who like being cyborgs and people who don't like being cyborgs. Secondly, new pure synthetics can and will be made (it is an eventuality), and if the logic of the starchild holds true they'll kill off these awkward new cyborgs as quickly as they killed off true organics.

All synthesis does is rape the entire galaxy against their will, make millions of mini-reapers, and not solve any of the in-game problems or conflicts. At all.

There is nothing not to understand. Synthesis is objectively the wrong choice. 

Incorrect, synthesis is th best choice.
You are correct in there will always be conflicts however the synthetics won't always band together and kill all organics.

Great arguement.... the amount of information you have backing your premise is astounding. 

Ok, just tell me this. Why, in anyway, would these new pure synthetics (who will be made, and apperently will rebel) react any differently to their cyborg creators than they would have if they were organic? They would still rebel (using your logic) and they would still win (again, using yours and the starbrat's logic). 

Your logic is as faulty as synthesis is illogical. 

I don't really understand the question, synthetics and organics are the same now, or similar.

That doesn't really answer your question, could you try and make it easier for me to understand, it's not your fault i'm just confused.

Modifié par Obeded the 2nd, 30 avril 2012 - 08:12 .

[Ecrulis]

Fact is all of the catalysts "choices are abhorrent, IMO, but the fact remains that destroy is the only option that completes the mission my shep was on since she first learned of the reapers, sorry geth.

[Firecell11]

Joukahainen wrote...

Techincally you become a reaper. Reapers are partly synthetic and partly organic, right?

EDIT: Useless topic is useless ...

yes they are synthetic/organic

[Obeded the 2nd]

Joukahainen wrote...

Techincally you become a reaper. Reapers are partly synthetic and partly organic, right?

EDIT: Useless topic is useless ...

True but your not reapers you are just mixed with synthetics.
That's worded really badly but hopefully you get the jist.

[Ecrulis]

alleyd wrote...

Here's an off the cuff attempt 

Synthesis :- Reaper Victory. End of Campaign

Control being decided by the player's choice and is based on your character type 

Paragon: Unites the galaxy. Shepard, Crew and other major characters from series work together to establish a true diverse galaxy and the process of rebuilding the cycle begins. The Reapers are kept as a study and enforcement tool controlled by a council of all species. No client races all equal. Reapers, Citadel & relays shutdown

Paragade Unites the galaxy but shepard keeps the reapers as a humanity interest option and the current political situation remains same Reapers, Citadel, Mass Relays shutdown 

Renegade Controls the Reapers and continues the cycles across this and other galaxies 

All with Cut Scenes and a continuation into ME4 for Paragade & Paragon. Renegade Choice game breaker but with cut scenes of Reaper Harvest and a reaperised Shepard voice over

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Destruction endings are decided by EMS

High EMS Reapers rendered inactive and defences shutdown, Crucible shuts down relays and citadel (Not Destroyed) Crew & Shepard Survive and become leaders of races to rebuild galaxy, No client races.

Mid-High EMS Reapers shut down Citadel & Relays damaged. Fleets damaged but essentially intact. Crew and Shepard survive. Political situation the same as now 

Mid EMS Reapers destroyed Citadel & Relays heavily damaged but repairable. Fleets Scattered but can regroup. Earth Intact but damaged PS as above. Sheppard Killed but incapacitated. Crew has casualties dictated by player choice eg Virmire Survivor on ME3 crew members

Low-Mid EMS Reapers destroyed. Citadel Destroyed. Relays significantly damaged but whole. Fleets Scattered and Trapped. Earth badly damaged Political instability and conflict potential high. Crew casualties unknown and normandy listed MIA

Low EMS Total Destruction of Reapers and heavy casualties on fleets. Earth almost totally destroyed. (Only underground bunkers contain survivors) Political collapse into almost tribal groups. Survival of the fittest scenario. Normandy MIA. Relays and communications destroyed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So with this ending scenario there are 7 possible ways to start an ME4 quite soon after the ending decision. And your choices would have significant impact on the start of a new game.

A similar prologue setup to DAO with multiple characters.  
Which would be to find survivors, resources etc and start rebuilding. Dealing with breakaway groups, pirates and bandits. New species threat (Yarhg), Dark Energy and the birth of the Reapers would be the main quest
Does This Work??

I actually wouldnt mind this, its at least MUCH more diverse than what we have now.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Ecrulis wrote...

Fact is all of the catalysts "choices are abhorrent, IMO, but the fact remains that destroy is the only option that completes the mission my shep was on since she first learned of the reapers, sorry geth.

But if a new better option came along would you not take it?

Basically yes destroy the reapers the reapers was the main goal however, the things you learn like the reapers true purpose make destroy the worst ending.

[Sisterofshane]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...


The way to think of it is like the wars we have now organics vs organics.

No, the way to think of it is that Organics have been eradicated.

The Catalyst has failed at it's primary goal, which is to preserve organic life as it is.

[Firecell11]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Joukahainen wrote...

Techincally you become a reaper. Reapers are partly synthetic and partly organic, right?

EDIT: Useless topic is useless ...

True but your not reapers you are just mixed with synthetics.
That's worded really badly but hopefully you get the jist.

how is this a difference?

[Stygian1]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

I don't really understand the question, synthetics and organics are the same now, or similar.

That doesn't really answer your question, could you try and make it asier for me to understand, it's not your fault i'm just confused.

At the point Shepard makes everyone cyborgs (synthetics and organics alike), there might be a supposed equality. I'll say this just to try and pretend synthesis solves anything at all. 

But, assuming there is still metal and materials to make machines, eventually pure synthetics would be created again on a later date. At this point, using the starchild's logic, they would rebel against their cyborg creators. The only difference would be they are now killing cyborgs in the stead of organics. 

Sorry If I came off a bit malicious, I just dislike synthesis a lot... 

Modifié par Stygian1, 30 avril 2012 - 08:16 .

[DarxydeBluus]

You're making some major assumptions here:

In Destroy, you're assuming that the StarChild's logic is correct. We've already seen that it isn't, or doesn't have to be (Quarian/Geth).

With Control, again you're accepting the StarChild's logic. At this point it is really all speculation because we don't really know what Control does, certainly not in the long run. Control doesn't make any sense anyway given that you were arguing against the idea with TIM the entire game.

In Synthesis, you're assuming that all life would accept involuntarily being "hybridized" and that being the same would somehow make everyone get along. Look at humans as a species, even in the most uniform populations there is still disagreement, violence, and murder. Hatred is not purely an issue of physical differences. So unless Synthesis strips away free will, there is still going to be war and killing, and if it does strip away free will, we have bigger problems. It would effectively turn the entire galaxy into Reapers, with the StarChild in control.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Destroy is best, I'm not arguing for any of the endings. Quite frankly, the endings come down to a choice between murder, enslavement, or rape and none of that sounds good to me.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...


The way to think of it is like the wars we have now organics vs organics.

No, the way to think of it is that Organics have been eradicated.

The Catalyst has failed at it's primary goal, which is to preserve organic life as it is.

Are you talking about a particular ending because I don't understand your question or whatever you saying if it isn't a question.

Modifié par Obeded the 2nd, 30 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[frylock23]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

You do realize personalities are still existent in synthesis, and therefore conflict is still possible. There will still be wars--probably between people who like being cyborgs and people who don't like being cyborgs. Secondly, new pure synthetics can and will be made (it is an eventuality), and if the logic of the starchild holds true they'll kill off these awkward new cyborgs as quickly as they killed off true organics.

All synthesis does is rape the entire galaxy against their will, make millions of mini-reapers, and not solve any of the in-game problems or conflicts. At all.

There is nothing not to understand. Synthesis is objectively the wrong choice. 

Incorrect, synthesis is th best choice.
You are correct in there will always be conflicts however the synthetics won't always band together and kill all organics.

Great arguement.... the amount of information you have backing your premise is astounding. 

Ok, just tell me this. Why, in anyway, would these new pure synthetics (who will be made, and apperently will rebel) react any differently to their cyborg creators than they would have if they were organic? They would still rebel (using your logic) and they would still win (again, using yours and the starbrat's logic). 

Your logic is as faulty as synthesis is illogical. 

I don't really understand the question, synthetics and organics are the same now, or similar.

That doesn't really answer your question, could you try and make it easier for me to understand, it's not your fault i'm just confused.

Human beings are the same now or similar and we still attempt to eradicate each other simply for being different from time to time or have you missed many of the saddest lessons of our past?

Simply changing our genetic code to make oragnics and synthetics similar at the genetic level isn't going to change that and there's no reason to think that it would.

So I'm stunned you would think it is a viable solution to the problem. At most you seem to be husifying the entire galaxy at an accelerated rate and accomplishing what the Reapers are doing in the blink of an eye rather than at the slower, more conventional pace the Reapers are taking.

And will altering all extant life at the genetic level stop any new life that arises from being entirely organic? If it doesn't, you haven't actually fixed anything.

[Obeded the 2nd]

DarxydeBluus wrote...

You're making some major assumptions here:

In Destroy, you're assuming that the StarChild's logic is correct. We've already seen that it isn't, or doesn't have to be (Quarian/Geth).

With Control, again you're accepting the StarChild's logic. At this point it is really all speculation because we don't really know what Control does, certainly not in the long run. Control doesn't make any sense anyway given that you were arguing against the idea with TIM the entire game.

In Synthesis, you're assuming that all life would accept involuntarily being "hybridized" and that being the same would somehow make everyone get along. Look at humans as a species, even in the most uniform populations there is still disagreement, violence, and murder. Hatred is not purely an issue of physical differences. So unless Synthesis strips away free will, there is still going to be war and killing, and if it does strip away free will, we have bigger problems. It would effectively turn the entire galaxy into Reapers, with the StarChild in control.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Destroy is best, I'm not arguing for any of the endings. Quite frankly, the endings come down to a choice between murder, enslavement, or rape and none of that sounds good to me.

Destroy is what will happen in the future not right now.

Control I may be making a assumption but it is the only logical way of the events of it.

synthesis they will have to accept the way they are and of couse there will still be violence but the end result shows that galatic civilization would survive.

[Devil Mingy]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

Fact is all of the catalysts "choices are abhorrent, IMO, but the fact remains that destroy is the only option that completes the mission my shep was on since she first learned of the reapers, sorry geth.

But if a new better option came along would you not take it?

Basically yes destroy the reapers the reapers was the main goal however, the things you learn like the reapers true purpose make destroy the worst ending.

True, but only if we believe what the Catalyst says, and he doesn't really present a good case in the game.

That being said, I completely agree with your interpretation. I think it was what Bioware wanted us to believe about the game. The problem lies in the fact that the game never gave the Reapers any sympathy. Instead of building up to this confrontation between the Catalyst and Shepard (where Shepard would see the Reapers as a necessary evil against an inevitable machine apocalypse), they just had God appear and tell us that the Reapers aren't the bad guys. That was cheap and, as Taboo might say, insulting to my intelligence.

[Obeded the 2nd]

frylock23 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

You do realize personalities are still existent in synthesis, and therefore conflict is still possible. There will still be wars--probably between people who like being cyborgs and people who don't like being cyborgs. Secondly, new pure synthetics can and will be made (it is an eventuality), and if the logic of the starchild holds true they'll kill off these awkward new cyborgs as quickly as they killed off true organics.

All synthesis does is rape the entire galaxy against their will, make millions of mini-reapers, and not solve any of the in-game problems or conflicts. At all.

There is nothing not to understand. Synthesis is objectively the wrong choice. 

Incorrect, synthesis is th best choice.
You are correct in there will always be conflicts however the synthetics won't always band together and kill all organics.

Great arguement.... the amount of information you have backing your premise is astounding. 

Ok, just tell me this. Why, in anyway, would these new pure synthetics (who will be made, and apperently will rebel) react any differently to their cyborg creators than they would have if they were organic? They would still rebel (using your logic) and they would still win (again, using yours and the starbrat's logic). 

Your logic is as faulty as synthesis is illogical. 

I don't really understand the question, synthetics and organics are the same now, or similar.

That doesn't really answer your question, could you try and make it easier for me to understand, it's not your fault i'm just confused.

Human beings are the same now or similar and we still attempt to eradicate each other simply for being different from time to time or have you missed many of the saddest lessons of our past?

Simply changing our genetic code to make oragnics and synthetics similar at the genetic level isn't going to change that and there's no reason to think that it would.

So I'm stunned you would think it is a viable solution to the problem. At most you seem to be husifying the entire galaxy at an accelerated rate and accomplishing what the Reapers are doing in the blink of an eye rather than at the slower, more conventional pace the Reapers are taking.

And will altering all extant life at the genetic level stop any new life that arises from being entirely organic? If it doesn't, you haven't actually fixed anything.

There will always be violence there is no way to stop this however this would make sure galatic civilization isn't eridacated or thrown into chaos.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Devil Mingy wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

Fact is all of the catalysts "choices are abhorrent, IMO, but the fact remains that destroy is the only option that completes the mission my shep was on since she first learned of the reapers, sorry geth.

But if a new better option came along would you not take it?

Basically yes destroy the reapers the reapers was the main goal however, the things you learn like the reapers true purpose make destroy the worst ending.

True, but only if we believe what the Catalyst says, and he doesn't really present a good case in the game.

That being said, I completely agree with your interpretation. I think it was what Bioware wanted us to believe about the game. The problem lies in the fact that the game never gave the Reapers any sympathy. Instead of building up to this confrontation between the Catalyst and Shepard (where Shepard would see the Reapers as a necessary evil against an inevitable machine apocalypse), they just had God appear and tell us that the Reapers aren't the bad guys. That was cheap and, as Taboo might say, insulting to my intelligence.

I agree the ending was poorly written and it creates many problems like this.

[Stygian1]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

There will always be violence there is no way to stop this however this would make sure galatic civilization isn't eridacated or thrown into chaos.

Why wouldn't it? Synthetics can still be made. People can still have war. The reapers are still around. Shepard is dead. 

What is the positive side of synthesis besides rape for everyone? 

Modifié par Stygian1, 30 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[Sisterofshane]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...


The way to think of it is like the wars we have now organics vs organics.

No, the way to think of it is that Organics have been eradicated.

The Catalyst has failed at it's primary goal, which is to preserve organic life as it is.

Are you talking about a particular ening because I don't understand your question or whatever you saying if it isn't a question.

Yes I am talking about the Synthesis Ending.  It wasn't a question so much as a statement of fact.

The Primary goal of the Catalyst BEFORE the crucible was docked with the Citadel was the preservation and continuation of Organic Life.  It achieved this by "pruning" away the civilizations that were advanced enough to create AI capable of exterminating Organic Life, and then storing those civilizations as Reapers.  The idea behind this plan being that Organic Civilizations continue to be free to rise up in the same manner as they always have.

Synthesis is counterintuitive to this goal.  This choice is made with the frame of mind that there is nothing particularly special about saving Organics as they now exist.  So why try to save them in the first place?

[Obeded the 2nd]

Stygian1 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

I don't really understand the question, synthetics and organics are the same now, or similar.

That doesn't really answer your question, could you try and make it asier for me to understand, it's not your fault i'm just confused.

At the point Shepard makes everyone cyborgs (synthetics and organics alike), there might be a supposed equality. I'll say this just to try and pretend synthesis solves anything at all. 

But, assuming there is still metal and materials to make machines, eventually pure synthetics would be created again on a later date. At this point, using the starchild's logic, they would rebel against their cyborg creators. The only difference would be they are now killing cyborgs in the stead of organics. 

Sorry If I came off a bit malicious, I just dislike synthesis a lot... 

Perhaps, however I am going under the assumtion that all materials have been changed to prevent synthetics from doing this.
I could be wrong and it is just an assumption however considering the energy of the crucible cange everything I think it would be impossible to create another pure synthetic.

[DubVee12]

Firecell11 wrote...

if synthesis is the best ending why had you to stop saren in me1?

Well if that's the case i hope you destroyed the genophage cure because saren wanted to do that as well....

Edited for bad grammar

Modifié par DubVee12, 30 avril 2012 - 08:24 .

[The Protheans]

 

Synthesis: This i the best ending. Now I know you are going to say" wait a second obeded, all things in the galaxy will turn into cyborgs so how can this be the best ending? also it makes no sense, so WTF?" I agree with the second part it needs more clarifing however the first part is just stupid to believe. Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis but this is not the point the point is that in destroy ALL organics will die off after a certain amount of time, in control at the very least it will save the younger species and just kill advanced ones or at most let civilization continue with the reapers having the major burden of trying to stop synthetics from getting out of control, in synthesis however galatic civilization will rebuild and synthetics will not kill all organics or pose a threat that could get out of hand.

You made it sound so simple and stupid I don't think you fully understand the implications of Synthesis.

Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis.

I don't think you understand it, you think you understand it but you don't.
In fact sole Synthetics  don't even exist as they have Organic material that forms them too.
Everyone is in the same boat and the galaxy is doomed to stalemate with nothing happening and no diversity.
It would be the same as making everyone in Dragon Age a tranquil.

Modifié par The Protheans, 30 avril 2012 - 08:33 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

Firecell11 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Joukahainen wrote...

Techincally you become a reaper. Reapers are partly synthetic and partly organic, right?

EDIT: Useless topic is useless ...

True but your not reapers you are just mixed with synthetics.
That's worded really badly but hopefully you get the jist.

how is this a difference?

Well your not reapers you're a mixture of both but still diffrent.

I don't know how to say it but your diffrent, sorry maybe someone else can explain it

Modifié par Obeded the 2nd, 30 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[miracleofsound]

How do we know non-synthetic organics won't try to wipe out synthetic organics?

Or that new synthetics won't try to wipe out synthetic organics?

Or that the synthetic-organics won't all just get hacked by a futuristic Lulsec?

Modifié par miracleofsound, 30 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

The Protheans wrote...

 

Synthesis: This i the best ending. Now I know you are going to say" wait a second obeded, all things in the galaxy will turn into cyborgs so how can this be the best ending? also it makes no sense, so WTF?" I agree with the second part it needs more clarifing however the first part is just stupid to believe. Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis but this is not the point the point is that in destroy ALL organics will die off after a certain amount of time, in control at the very least it will save the younger species and just kill advanced ones or at most let civilization continue with the reapers having the major burden of trying to stop synthetics from getting out of control, in synthesis however galatic civilization will rebuild and synthetics will not kill all organics or pose a threat that could get out of hand.

You made it sound so simple and stupid I don't think you fully understand the implications of Synthesis.

Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis.

I don't think you understand it, you think you understand it but you don't.
In fact sole Synthetics  don't even exist as they have Organic material that forms them too.
Everyone is in the same boat and the galaxy is doomed to stalemate with nothing happening and no diversity.
It would be the same as making everyone in Dragon Age a tranquil.

Incorrect, you mixed synthetics and organics not every species in the galaxy