CuseGirl wrote...
That's what makes me upset. Why does the Catalyst think the world should be free of conflict? It's part of the reality of life. Disagreement, conflict, anger, and yes, enough anger over an issue, you'll hit someone, shoot something, kill someone. How does creating new DNA change that?Firecell11 wrote...
still can create synthetics
still have conflicts/war
so it doesnt really help
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
No by your logic smart must be dumb, I mean all life is diffrent after this event but still the same if you get what I mean, you more than likly don't.
I.. what...how....wahhhhh?
You compare to opposites of the scale.
Life and living aren't two opposites.
Life and Death are opposite, non-living and living are opposite's.
I'm sorry my aggreesion can get the better of me and make me say stupid things.
I take it you still don't understand that all life has been changed.
No, I agree all life has been changed just not in the way your thinking of.
what are you thinking how synthesis changed life then?
still can create synthetics
still have conflicts/war
so it doesnt really help
It made synthetics and organis similar-same however organics wouldn't be changed from each other.
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
No by your logic smart must be dumb, I mean all life is diffrent after this event but still the same if you get what I mean, you more than likly don't.
I.. what...how....wahhhhh?
You compare to opposites of the scale.
Life and living aren't two opposites.
Life and Death are opposite, non-living and living are opposite's.
I'm sorry my aggreesion can get the better of me and make me say stupid things.
I take it you still don't understand that all life has been changed.
No, I agree all life has been changed just not in the way your thinking of.
what are you thinking how synthesis changed life then?
still can create synthetics
still have conflicts/war
so it doesnt really help
It made synthetics and organis similar-same however organics wouldn't be changed from each other.
so if I understand correct you saying is
humans are still humans(same for other alien species) but now they are more similar to other species because they are parthly synthetic?
Modifié par Isichar, 30 avril 2012 - 09:46 .
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
No by your logic smart must be dumb, I mean all life is diffrent after this event but still the same if you get what I mean, you more than likly don't.
I.. what...how....wahhhhh?
You compare to opposites of the scale.
Life and living aren't two opposites.
Life and Death are opposite, non-living and living are opposite's.
I'm sorry my aggreesion can get the better of me and make me say stupid things.
I take it you still don't understand that all life has been changed.
No, I agree all life has been changed just not in the way your thinking of.
what are you thinking how synthesis changed life then?
still can create synthetics
still have conflicts/war
so it doesnt really help
It made synthetics and organis similar-same however organics wouldn't be changed from each other.
so if I understand correct you saying is
humans are still humans(same for other alien species) but now they are more similar to other species because they are parthly synthetic?
No, well sort of but I mean they are more similar to synthetics rather than other species.
Modifié par Firecell11, 30 avril 2012 - 09:46 .
richard_rider wrote...
Here's some problems with synth (and pretty much all endings)
Casper's logic has no proof, in fact I pretty much disproved him over 3 games. What he states are hie beliefs, and the mere fact that he states that "it could happen" is a baseless premise; there is no proof, and no precedence. Saying something could happen, well you might as well destroy all organics now, because they "could" build super weapons and destroy the entire galaxy. They "could" create synthetics and send them to other galaxies to invade. They "could' harness the power of black holes and destroy the fabric of space/time.
Saying something "could" happen is not a reason to commit rape/destruction/enslavement on a galactic scale.
The only cycle that I see present in the games is the reaper cycle, they set the cycle, they use the cycle, they are the cycle. There are no other cycles present.
Synth effectively eliminates organics, so his mission of preserving organics goes out the window. (You can call it a new life form, but it does in fact eliminate organics, as no "living" thing in the galaxy would be organic after this)
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Firecell11 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
No by your logic smart must be dumb, I mean all life is diffrent after this event but still the same if you get what I mean, you more than likly don't.
I.. what...how....wahhhhh?
You compare to opposites of the scale.
Life and living aren't two opposites.
Life and Death are opposite, non-living and living are opposite's.
I'm sorry my aggreesion can get the better of me and make me say stupid things.
I take it you still don't understand that all life has been changed.
No, I agree all life has been changed just not in the way your thinking of.
what are you thinking how synthesis changed life then?
still can create synthetics
still have conflicts/war
so it doesnt really help
It made synthetics and organis similar-same however organics wouldn't be changed from each other.
so if I understand correct you saying is
humans are still humans(same for other alien species) but now they are more similar to other species because they are parthly synthetic?
No, well sort of but I mean they are more similar to synthetics rather than other species.
ok so for example humans are now more similar to synthetics than to asari and so are the asari more similar to synthetics then to humans
alright but if synthesis combines all synthetic and organic life into a new DNA why aren't there only one species LIKE the reapers who are half synthetic and half organic? (atleast thats what I thought what would happen when I first heard about synthesis:huh:)
.
Isichar wrote...
Just a point Id like to bring up. Shepard is partly synthetic but this does not really do much to effect Shepards view on synthetics vs organics one way or another. Its very unclear as to what synthesis actually does in terms of effecting how we think and feel mentally.
Its obvious its a good thing physically since Joker seems to have gotten over his bone disease, but theres nothing other then the catalyst word (which alone makes me not want to pick it) to suggest it would actually provide a solution to lets say (for example) Geth vs Qurians conflict. The Qurians attacked the geth because they were afraid of the possibility the geth could rise up against them, well the Geth simply just tried to defend their existance. It was not because organics just hated synthetics and the other way around.
Its been presents as a solution to this conflict because it makes us more "similar" but the only way I can see it actually removing the conflict altogether is by taking away free will and instead forcing us to think the same way.
Allan has said on these forums that regardless of whether or not synthetics and organics were at war, they eventually would end up fighting. This was a flawed way to look at it for me because how i personally see synthesis, I can just as much argue that over a long period of time, the Geth and the Qurians could still end up having a war regardless of what option i picked.
Another point that really bothers me is it been called the final solution or final evolution as if its the pinnacle of all life, the same thing we were told about the reapers which basically just turned out to be giant husks that all look the same and are been controlled, the same guy is telling us that synthesis is now the height of our evolution, that.... concerns me quite a bit. Besides isnt one of the defining features of life and chaos that its always changing and evolving? It brings me back to the point of free will, if you make something perfect it cannot grow or learn from its mistakes. If its already perfect then couldnt you argue it becomes static? Its incapable of growth, may as well be a husk anyways.
Theres alot of beauty to be found in making a mistake and learning from it. Tali realizing the Geth (legion in particular) are basically alive and Mordin saying "I made a mistake!" in regards to the genophage, something he sincerly thought was for the best of all life, are character defining moments.
I may make many mistakes as a human, but those mistakes I can take and use to grow and become a better person. Synthesis takes away from the journey because it simply wants to jump everyone to the end and ignore why been flawed can be a good thing too and what perfection even really means (or if there is such a thing)
No offense OP but I dont think this is an issue of it not been presented well or been explained well enough, but rather with the arguable idea of synthesis itself and what it actually means for our future.
[/quote]
[/quote].[/quote]Modifié par Firecell11, 30 avril 2012 - 09:56 .
[/quote][/quote].[/quote]
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
richard_rider wrote...
Here's some problems with synth (and pretty much all endings)
Casper's logic has no proof, in fact I pretty much disproved him over 3 games. What he states are hie beliefs, and the mere fact that he states that "it could happen" is a baseless premise; there is no proof, and no precedence. Saying something could happen, well you might as well destroy all organics now, because they "could" build super weapons and destroy the entire galaxy. They "could" create synthetics and send them to other galaxies to invade. They "could' harness the power of black holes and destroy the fabric of space/time.
Saying something "could" happen is not a reason to commit rape/destruction/enslavement on a galactic scale.
The only cycle that I see present in the games is the reaper cycle, they set the cycle, they use the cycle, they are the cycle. There are no other cycles present.
Synth effectively eliminates organics, so his mission of preserving organics goes out the window. (You can call it a new life form, but it does in fact eliminate organics, as no "living" thing in the galaxy would be organic after this)
The point is that when speaking to the prothean VI you will be told there are patterns this is clearly one of those patterns that the starkid has seen and done somehting about.
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Just a point Id like to bring up. Shepard is partly synthetic but this does not really do much to effect Shepards view on synthetics vs organics one way or another. Its very unclear as to what synthesis actually does in terms of effecting how we think and feel mentally.
Its obvious its a good thing physically since Joker seems to have gotten over his bone disease, but theres nothing other then the catalyst word (which alone makes me not want to pick it) to suggest it would actually provide a solution to lets say (for example) Geth vs Qurians conflict. The Qurians attacked the geth because they were afraid of the possibility the geth could rise up against them, well the Geth simply just tried to defend their existance. It was not because organics just hated synthetics and the other way around.
Its been presents as a solution to this conflict because it makes us more "similar" but the only way I can see it actually removing the conflict altogether is by taking away free will and instead forcing us to think the same way.
Allan has said on these forums that regardless of whether or not synthetics and organics were at war, they eventually would end up fighting. This was a flawed way to look at it for me because how i personally see synthesis, I can just as much argue that over a long period of time, the Geth and the Qurians could still end up having a war regardless of what option i picked.
Another point that really bothers me is it been called the final solution or final evolution as if its the pinnacle of all life, the same thing we were told about the reapers which basically just turned out to be giant husks that all look the same and are been controlled, the same guy is telling us that synthesis is now the height of our evolution, that.... concerns me quite a bit. Besides isnt one of the defining features of life and chaos that its always changing and evolving? It brings me back to the point of free will, if you make something perfect it cannot grow or learn from its mistakes. If its already perfect then couldnt you argue it becomes static? Its incapable of growth, may as well be a husk anyways.
Theres alot of beauty to be found in making a mistake and learning from it. Tali realizing the Geth (legion in particular) are basically alive and Mordin saying "I made a mistake!" in regards to the genophage, something he sincerly thought was for the best of all life, are character defining moments.
I may make many mistakes as a human, but those mistakes I can take and use to grow and become a better person. Synthesis takes away from the journey because it simply wants to jump everyone to the end and ignore why been flawed can be a good thing too and what perfection even really means (or if there is such a thing)
No offense OP but I dont think this is an issue of it not been presented well or been explained well enough, but rather with the arguable idea of synthesis itself and what it actually means for our future.
No I think that synthesis leads to a better future It' sort of clear from what you pick up in the game.
Modifié par Isichar, 30 avril 2012 - 10:01 .
frylock23 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
richard_rider wrote...
Here's some problems with synth (and pretty much all endings)
Casper's logic has no proof, in fact I pretty much disproved him over 3 games. What he states are hie beliefs, and the mere fact that he states that "it could happen" is a baseless premise; there is no proof, and no precedence. Saying something could happen, well you might as well destroy all organics now, because they "could" build super weapons and destroy the entire galaxy. They "could" create synthetics and send them to other galaxies to invade. They "could' harness the power of black holes and destroy the fabric of space/time.
Saying something "could" happen is not a reason to commit rape/destruction/enslavement on a galactic scale.
The only cycle that I see present in the games is the reaper cycle, they set the cycle, they use the cycle, they are the cycle. There are no other cycles present.
Synth effectively eliminates organics, so his mission of preserving organics goes out the window. (You can call it a new life form, but it does in fact eliminate organics, as no "living" thing in the galaxy would be organic after this)
The point is that when speaking to the prothean VI you will be told there are patterns this is clearly one of those patterns that the starkid has seen and done somehting about.
How can you say that? You never saw the pattern the star kid says he did. In effect it all comes down to you trusting the star kid, an admitted agent of the Reapers and murderer of beings beyond counting, which is something most of the rest of us are not willing to do.
You wouldn't trust Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung Adolph Hitler or any of history's other more infamous mass murderers who came to you telling you that their purges were in effect necessary to avoid some nebulous catastrophe or other would you?
And as stated, since all organic DNA will be rewritten into something not organic, you are effectively perpetrating a massive genocide on all organic life rendering it forever extinct unless new organic DNA crops up somewhere and manages to evolve somehow which of course makes star brat's solution rather moot. However, as it stands, it is a very Final Solution. Don't you think?
[/quote][/quote].[/quote]
man synthesis makes no sense don't you understand??
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Synthesis: This i the best ending. Now I know you are going to say" wait a second obeded, all things in the galaxy will turn into cyborgs so how can this be the best ending? also it makes no sense, so WTF?" I agree with the second part it needs more clarifing however the first part is just stupid to believe. Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis but this is not the point the point is that in destroy ALL organics will die off after a certain amount of time, in control at the very least it will save the younger species and just kill advanced ones or at most let civilization continue with the reapers having the major burden of trying to stop synthetics from getting out of control, in synthesis however galatic civilization will rebuild and synthetics will not kill all organics or pose a threat that could get out of hand.
You made it sound so simple and stupid I don't think you fully understand the implications of Synthesis.Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis.
I don't think you understand it, you think you understand it but you don't.
In fact sole Synthetics don't even exist as they have Organic material that forms them too.
Everyone is in the same boat and the galaxy is doomed to stalemate with nothing happening and no diversity.
It would be the same as making everyone in Dragon Age a tranquil.
Incorrect, you mixed synthetics and organics not every species in the galaxy
What?
You mixed all life in the galaxy with synthetics, it shows you this in the end.
ALL THE PLANTS ARE PARTLY SYNTHETIC
See I knew you didn't understand it fully
Yes you mixed the living with synthetic not all life.
I think you don't understand the ending.
On another note I may be wrong since bioware did a poor job of explaining it however I don't think your correct.
Isichar wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Just a point Id like to bring up. Shepard is partly synthetic but this does not really do much to effect Shepards view on synthetics vs organics one way or another. Its very unclear as to what synthesis actually does in terms of effecting how we think and feel mentally.
Its obvious its a good thing physically since Joker seems to have gotten over his bone disease, but theres nothing other then the catalyst word (which alone makes me not want to pick it) to suggest it would actually provide a solution to lets say (for example) Geth vs Qurians conflict. The Qurians attacked the geth because they were afraid of the possibility the geth could rise up against them, well the Geth simply just tried to defend their existance. It was not because organics just hated synthetics and the other way around.
Its been presents as a solution to this conflict because it makes us more "similar" but the only way I can see it actually removing the conflict altogether is by taking away free will and instead forcing us to think the same way.
Allan has said on these forums that regardless of whether or not synthetics and organics were at war, they eventually would end up fighting. This was a flawed way to look at it for me because how i personally see synthesis, I can just as much argue that over a long period of time, the Geth and the Qurians could still end up having a war regardless of what option i picked.
Another point that really bothers me is it been called the final solution or final evolution as if its the pinnacle of all life, the same thing we were told about the reapers which basically just turned out to be giant husks that all look the same and are been controlled, the same guy is telling us that synthesis is now the height of our evolution, that.... concerns me quite a bit. Besides isnt one of the defining features of life and chaos that its always changing and evolving? It brings me back to the point of free will, if you make something perfect it cannot grow or learn from its mistakes. If its already perfect then couldnt you argue it becomes static? Its incapable of growth, may as well be a husk anyways.
Theres alot of beauty to be found in making a mistake and learning from it. Tali realizing the Geth (legion in particular) are basically alive and Mordin saying "I made a mistake!" in regards to the genophage, something he sincerly thought was for the best of all life, are character defining moments.
I may make many mistakes as a human, but those mistakes I can take and use to grow and become a better person. Synthesis takes away from the journey because it simply wants to jump everyone to the end and ignore why been flawed can be a good thing too and what perfection even really means (or if there is such a thing)
No offense OP but I dont think this is an issue of it not been presented well or been explained well enough, but rather with the arguable idea of synthesis itself and what it actually means for our future.
No I think that synthesis leads to a better future It' sort of clear from what you pick up in the game.
How is it a better future though? It does not remove conflict, it does not address if it effects our free will at all and its coming from the same guy who believed the reapers were the height of evolution who admitted he was in control.
Seems like its a better future for the catalyst but at best leaves organics mindless husks.
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
frylock23 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
richard_rider wrote...
Here's some problems with synth (and pretty much all endings)
Casper's logic has no proof, in fact I pretty much disproved him over 3 games. What he states are hie beliefs, and the mere fact that he states that "it could happen" is a baseless premise; there is no proof, and no precedence. Saying something could happen, well you might as well destroy all organics now, because they "could" build super weapons and destroy the entire galaxy. They "could" create synthetics and send them to other galaxies to invade. They "could' harness the power of black holes and destroy the fabric of space/time.
Saying something "could" happen is not a reason to commit rape/destruction/enslavement on a galactic scale.
The only cycle that I see present in the games is the reaper cycle, they set the cycle, they use the cycle, they are the cycle. There are no other cycles present.
Synth effectively eliminates organics, so his mission of preserving organics goes out the window. (You can call it a new life form, but it does in fact eliminate organics, as no "living" thing in the galaxy would be organic after this)
The point is that when speaking to the prothean VI you will be told there are patterns this is clearly one of those patterns that the starkid has seen and done somehting about.
How can you say that? You never saw the pattern the star kid says he did. In effect it all comes down to you trusting the star kid, an admitted agent of the Reapers and murderer of beings beyond counting, which is something most of the rest of us are not willing to do.
You wouldn't trust Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung Adolph Hitler or any of history's other more infamous mass murderers who came to you telling you that their purges were in effect necessary to avoid some nebulous catastrophe or other would you?
And as stated, since all organic DNA will be rewritten into something not organic, you are effectively perpetrating a massive genocide on all organic life rendering it forever extinct unless new organic DNA crops up somewhere and manages to evolve somehow which of course makes star brat's solution rather moot. However, as it stands, it is a very Final Solution. Don't you think?
The star kid has seen it happen so many times he knows it is a pattern and therefore this is the soultion.
Trusting him is a problem with bioware and them not including that option
BABEik52092 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
The Protheans wrote...
Synthesis: This i the best ending. Now I know you are going to say" wait a second obeded, all things in the galaxy will turn into cyborgs so how can this be the best ending? also it makes no sense, so WTF?" I agree with the second part it needs more clarifing however the first part is just stupid to believe. Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis but this is not the point the point is that in destroy ALL organics will die off after a certain amount of time, in control at the very least it will save the younger species and just kill advanced ones or at most let civilization continue with the reapers having the major burden of trying to stop synthetics from getting out of control, in synthesis however galatic civilization will rebuild and synthetics will not kill all organics or pose a threat that could get out of hand.
You made it sound so simple and stupid I don't think you fully understand the implications of Synthesis.Synthesis just makes organic and synthetics feel like the same. Thats not really the best way to word it however they will look out for each other and trust each other rather than ultimatly leading to the destruction of one another. Sorry if you still don't understand synthesis.
I don't think you understand it, you think you understand it but you don't.
In fact sole Synthetics don't even exist as they have Organic material that forms them too.
Everyone is in the same boat and the galaxy is doomed to stalemate with nothing happening and no diversity.
It would be the same as making everyone in Dragon Age a tranquil.
Incorrect, you mixed synthetics and organics not every species in the galaxy
What?
You mixed all life in the galaxy with synthetics, it shows you this in the end.
ALL THE PLANTS ARE PARTLY SYNTHETIC
See I knew you didn't understand it fully
Yes you mixed the living with synthetic not all life.
I think you don't understand the ending.
On another note I may be wrong since bioware did a poor job of explaining it however I don't think your correct.
Ok, im sorry but you don't understand.
You mixed the living (organics) with synthetics.
All life in the galaxy is either organic and synthetic.
You DO mix all life.
And you said earlier that synthesis is the "best" ending. But that is your opinion. There is no "best" ending between the endings as all 3 endings have the own pros and cons. There is no "right" answer, its up to what you think is right. And I think synthesis is very wrong....
Stygian1 wrote...
Guys... this argument has gone no where and will continue to go nowhere. Bail.
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Just a point Id like to bring up. Shepard is partly synthetic but this does not really do much to effect Shepards view on synthetics vs organics one way or another. Its very unclear as to what synthesis actually does in terms of effecting how we think and feel mentally.
Its obvious its a good thing physically since Joker seems to have gotten over his bone disease, but theres nothing other then the catalyst word (which alone makes me not want to pick it) to suggest it would actually provide a solution to lets say (for example) Geth vs Qurians conflict. The Qurians attacked the geth because they were afraid of the possibility the geth could rise up against them, well the Geth simply just tried to defend their existance. It was not because organics just hated synthetics and the other way around.
Its been presents as a solution to this conflict because it makes us more "similar" but the only way I can see it actually removing the conflict altogether is by taking away free will and instead forcing us to think the same way.
Allan has said on these forums that regardless of whether or not synthetics and organics were at war, they eventually would end up fighting. This was a flawed way to look at it for me because how i personally see synthesis, I can just as much argue that over a long period of time, the Geth and the Qurians could still end up having a war regardless of what option i picked.
Another point that really bothers me is it been called the final solution or final evolution as if its the pinnacle of all life, the same thing we were told about the reapers which basically just turned out to be giant husks that all look the same and are been controlled, the same guy is telling us that synthesis is now the height of our evolution, that.... concerns me quite a bit. Besides isnt one of the defining features of life and chaos that its always changing and evolving? It brings me back to the point of free will, if you make something perfect it cannot grow or learn from its mistakes. If its already perfect then couldnt you argue it becomes static? Its incapable of growth, may as well be a husk anyways.
Theres alot of beauty to be found in making a mistake and learning from it. Tali realizing the Geth (legion in particular) are basically alive and Mordin saying "I made a mistake!" in regards to the genophage, something he sincerly thought was for the best of all life, are character defining moments.
I may make many mistakes as a human, but those mistakes I can take and use to grow and become a better person. Synthesis takes away from the journey because it simply wants to jump everyone to the end and ignore why been flawed can be a good thing too and what perfection even really means (or if there is such a thing)
No offense OP but I dont think this is an issue of it not been presented well or been explained well enough, but rather with the arguable idea of synthesis itself and what it actually means for our future.
No I think that synthesis leads to a better future It' sort of clear from what you pick up in the game.
How is it a better future though? It does not remove conflict, it does not address if it effects our free will at all and its coming from the same guy who believed the reapers were the height of evolution who admitted he was in control.
Seems like its a better future for the catalyst but at best leaves organics mindless husks.
As seen from the end of the normandy they are not mindless husks they have thier own inteligence still.
Also nothing will ever remove conflict apart from everyone/thing dying.
This also does not affect free will as it only mixes them, I agree this was against thier will but they can change after it.
Modifié par Isichar, 30 avril 2012 - 10:09 .
Isichar wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
frylock23 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
richard_rider wrote...
Here's some problems with synth (and pretty much all endings)
Casper's logic has no proof, in fact I pretty much disproved him over 3 games. What he states are hie beliefs, and the mere fact that he states that "it could happen" is a baseless premise; there is no proof, and no precedence. Saying something could happen, well you might as well destroy all organics now, because they "could" build super weapons and destroy the entire galaxy. They "could" create synthetics and send them to other galaxies to invade. They "could' harness the power of black holes and destroy the fabric of space/time.
Saying something "could" happen is not a reason to commit rape/destruction/enslavement on a galactic scale.
The only cycle that I see present in the games is the reaper cycle, they set the cycle, they use the cycle, they are the cycle. There are no other cycles present.
Synth effectively eliminates organics, so his mission of preserving organics goes out the window. (You can call it a new life form, but it does in fact eliminate organics, as no "living" thing in the galaxy would be organic after this)
The point is that when speaking to the prothean VI you will be told there are patterns this is clearly one of those patterns that the starkid has seen and done somehting about.
How can you say that? You never saw the pattern the star kid says he did. In effect it all comes down to you trusting the star kid, an admitted agent of the Reapers and murderer of beings beyond counting, which is something most of the rest of us are not willing to do.
You wouldn't trust Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung Adolph Hitler or any of history's other more infamous mass murderers who came to you telling you that their purges were in effect necessary to avoid some nebulous catastrophe or other would you?
And as stated, since all organic DNA will be rewritten into something not organic, you are effectively perpetrating a massive genocide on all organic life rendering it forever extinct unless new organic DNA crops up somewhere and manages to evolve somehow which of course makes star brat's solution rather moot. However, as it stands, it is a very Final Solution. Don't you think?
The star kid has seen it happen so many times he knows it is a pattern and therefore this is the soultion.
Trusting him is a problem with bioware and them not including that option
Nope if what he said happened even once then organics would be gone, the fact that at no point in time did synthetics actually completely wipe out organics shows that he made an educated guess that it would happen.
Saying "Well there are definitely going to experience war eventually" is not the same thing as saying "eventually synthetics will always wipe out organics"
Isichar wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Just a point Id like to bring up. Shepard is partly synthetic but this does not really do much to effect Shepards view on synthetics vs organics one way or another. Its very unclear as to what synthesis actually does in terms of effecting how we think and feel mentally.
Its obvious its a good thing physically since Joker seems to have gotten over his bone disease, but theres nothing other then the catalyst word (which alone makes me not want to pick it) to suggest it would actually provide a solution to lets say (for example) Geth vs Qurians conflict. The Qurians attacked the geth because they were afraid of the possibility the geth could rise up against them, well the Geth simply just tried to defend their existance. It was not because organics just hated synthetics and the other way around.
Its been presents as a solution to this conflict because it makes us more "similar" but the only way I can see it actually removing the conflict altogether is by taking away free will and instead forcing us to think the same way.
Allan has said on these forums that regardless of whether or not synthetics and organics were at war, they eventually would end up fighting. This was a flawed way to look at it for me because how i personally see synthesis, I can just as much argue that over a long period of time, the Geth and the Qurians could still end up having a war regardless of what option i picked.
Another point that really bothers me is it been called the final solution or final evolution as if its the pinnacle of all life, the same thing we were told about the reapers which basically just turned out to be giant husks that all look the same and are been controlled, the same guy is telling us that synthesis is now the height of our evolution, that.... concerns me quite a bit. Besides isnt one of the defining features of life and chaos that its always changing and evolving? It brings me back to the point of free will, if you make something perfect it cannot grow or learn from its mistakes. If its already perfect then couldnt you argue it becomes static? Its incapable of growth, may as well be a husk anyways.
Theres alot of beauty to be found in making a mistake and learning from it. Tali realizing the Geth (legion in particular) are basically alive and Mordin saying "I made a mistake!" in regards to the genophage, something he sincerly thought was for the best of all life, are character defining moments.
I may make many mistakes as a human, but those mistakes I can take and use to grow and become a better person. Synthesis takes away from the journey because it simply wants to jump everyone to the end and ignore why been flawed can be a good thing too and what perfection even really means (or if there is such a thing)
No offense OP but I dont think this is an issue of it not been presented well or been explained well enough, but rather with the arguable idea of synthesis itself and what it actually means for our future.
No I think that synthesis leads to a better future It' sort of clear from what you pick up in the game.
How is it a better future though? It does not remove conflict, it does not address if it effects our free will at all and its coming from the same guy who believed the reapers were the height of evolution who admitted he was in control.
Seems like its a better future for the catalyst but at best leaves organics mindless husks.
As seen from the end of the normandy they are not mindless husks they have thier own inteligence still.
Also nothing will ever remove conflict apart from everyone/thing dying.
This also does not affect free will as it only mixes them, I agree this was against thier will but they can change after it.
If it does not remove conflict then i see no point to the reapers existence to begin with. Wasnt his (the catalyst) whole purpose to preserve life and wasnt the reapers his way of doing that. Is it really so important if life is been wiped out by synthetics compared to been wiped out by other life?
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Isichar wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
frylock23 wrote...
Obeded the 2nd wrote...
richard_rider wrote...
Here's some problems with synth (and pretty much all endings)
Casper's logic has no proof, in fact I pretty much disproved him over 3 games. What he states are hie beliefs, and the mere fact that he states that "it could happen" is a baseless premise; there is no proof, and no precedence. Saying something could happen, well you might as well destroy all organics now, because they "could" build super weapons and destroy the entire galaxy. They "could" create synthetics and send them to other galaxies to invade. They "could' harness the power of black holes and destroy the fabric of space/time.
Saying something "could" happen is not a reason to commit rape/destruction/enslavement on a galactic scale.
The only cycle that I see present in the games is the reaper cycle, they set the cycle, they use the cycle, they are the cycle. There are no other cycles present.
Synth effectively eliminates organics, so his mission of preserving organics goes out the window. (You can call it a new life form, but it does in fact eliminate organics, as no "living" thing in the galaxy would be organic after this)
The point is that when speaking to the prothean VI you will be told there are patterns this is clearly one of those patterns that the starkid has seen and done somehting about.
How can you say that? You never saw the pattern the star kid says he did. In effect it all comes down to you trusting the star kid, an admitted agent of the Reapers and murderer of beings beyond counting, which is something most of the rest of us are not willing to do.
You wouldn't trust Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung Adolph Hitler or any of history's other more infamous mass murderers who came to you telling you that their purges were in effect necessary to avoid some nebulous catastrophe or other would you?
And as stated, since all organic DNA will be rewritten into something not organic, you are effectively perpetrating a massive genocide on all organic life rendering it forever extinct unless new organic DNA crops up somewhere and manages to evolve somehow which of course makes star brat's solution rather moot. However, as it stands, it is a very Final Solution. Don't you think?
The star kid has seen it happen so many times he knows it is a pattern and therefore this is the soultion.
Trusting him is a problem with bioware and them not including that option
Nope if what he said happened even once then organics would be gone, the fact that at no point in time did synthetics actually completely wipe out organics shows that he made an educated guess that it would happen.
Saying "Well there are definitely going to experience war eventually" is not the same thing as saying "eventually synthetics will always wipe out organics"
He is an AI i'm sure he can make a 100% accurate prediction on what will happen.
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