250 réponses à ce sujet

[Firecell11]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...

if synthesis is the best ending why had you to stop saren in me1?

That's a question for the writers and thier poor writing, in other words I have no idea.

"poor writing" exactly

I'm tired of reading this garbage.

You had to stop Saren because he was indoctrinated. The Reapers only told him what he wanted to hear. If Saren wasn't stopped then the Reapers would have came and harvested everybody.

saren wanted  synthesis
he was stopped still reapers came and harvest everybody or am I wrong?

[Isichar]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Isichar
Sorry but the qoute thing is to long so this will be a new one.
If you could show me some evidence I would be grateful

1. Organic life survived regardless of what happened in the past. He cant say theres 100% chance we will all get wiped out if thats never happened, he can argue its likely but that is not the same as been definite.
2. Its entirely possible for AI's and organics to play nicely, and theres nothing to suggest that a war with organics vs synthetics will result in the complete and utter destruction (I mean this, there is nothing besides the catalysts word that says its impossible for peace longterm)
3. The reapers been called the pinnacle of life by the same guy who admits they bend to his will, the reapers are giant husks and the same guy who tells us that synthesis is the real pinnacle, if a mindless husk is his version of perfection then is this perfection we want?
(Also I want you to consider indoctrination, its possible to control people well still giving them the illusion they are in control)


Also its important to note we dont understand what the catalyst is. Im pretty sure it does not talk about whether he is an AI, VI, organic or just GOD. You cant say we have no reason to doubt him because we know nothing about him anyways other then he believes life endangers itself. Sure you can argue he has good reason for believing this (i dont feel this way) but it does not make it absolute truth.

Modifié par Isichar, 30 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[Apathy1989]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape every person in the galaxy, forcing homogenization and betraying the ideas of unity despite diversity laid out in the series.

Control: Accept TIMs ideas as right despite shooting him a few seconds before. Betray the idea of self-determination and choice laid out in the series.

Destroy: Do what I set out to do from day 1 in this damn series. Accept the loss of EDI and Geth with some tears.

The situation changed with the reason for the reapers being revealed.

Not for me it didn't. Starchilds reasoning was flawed.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Going to bed.
If you have questios please still ask I am happy to answer them it will just take awhile for me to get around to answering it .

[The Edge]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

The Edge wrote...

You would have to neglect Shephard's past experiences in order to come to this conclusion, OP.

(IMO) If I am to understand correctly, Saren wanted a synthesis-like solution; he turned out to be indoctrinated. TIM wanted the control-like solution; he turned out to be indoctrinated.

Shephard has been working the entire time to destroy the Reapers, but at the very end (by your definition) his goal was in fact "wrong" the whole time? That approach, I admit, is a great twist that would work in a properly made novel. For a game with CHOICE as it's headline to pull the carpet out from under the player is not clever, it's just cruel.

I picked Synthesis the first time, but after rethinking that choice, I went with the Destroy ending because it sticks to Shepard's guns and rejects the antagonistic notions of the first two games. At the end of the day, however, the endings at face value are all crappy. (/IMO)

No sheps goal was correct but the situation changed after learnign the reapers true reason for well, reaping.

The true reason, to keep organics from being wiped out by the synthetics that they create by killing the organics, doesn't make sense. If human beings are any indication, organics are more than capable of wiping themselves out without the help of synthetic upheaval. Why, then, is so much attention paid to synthetics when organics can do the same amount of damage to themselves?

As I see it, the reasons for harvesting organics doesn't make any sense. If the Reaper's goal doesn't make sense, what does that say about the solutions they propose? The fact that Synthesis/Control options were supported by two people indoctrinated by the Reapers makes those solutions unfavorable; the same can be said about Destroy (because it is an option given by the Starchild), but if one was to make a choice, destroying the thing that is feeding this twisted logic seems like the best (which is relative to how terrible the options are) choice.

[Isichar]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Going to bed.
If you have questios please still ask I am happy to answer them it will just take awhile for me to get around to answering it .

Night and ty for the discussion

Its tricky arguing this stuff sometimes without it turning into a flame war.

Modifié par Isichar, 30 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[BABEik52092]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

BABEik52092 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

BABEik52092 wrote...


None of the endings show the "future" of what happens beyond the normandy crash, therefore you have NO PROOF that the synthesis choice has the best future and is the best option.

No, but from evidence gathered ingame this is the only logiccal explanation.

If by "evidence" you mean that Starchild says its the "final evolution of life" and that its his ultimate goal, thats great for him. But the "final evolution of life" doesn't mean the best future. There is little other evidence to show that synthesis is the "best or most logical" choice.

No, imean destroy dooms the glaxy and control ether lets the cycle be continued or the galaxy can be doomed and the reapers have a tough task ahead of them, see OP for futher info if you haven't already,

Ok destroy doesn't "doom" the galaxy in any worse way than the other two endings. Yeah the geth are destroyed which kinda sucks but its a blank slate for everyone. We can choose our own path without the Reapers "protection" and we can create new synthetics and be careful knowing what we do now and make sure we treat them so that we don't want them to "rebel", like the quarians did to the geth. And yes the relays are destroyed but that happens in the synthesis ending too. So by your logic we would be "doomed" in the synthesis ending as well.

You need to clarify as to what "dooms" the galaxy.

In all three endings the "cycle" of synthetics rebeling and killing organics can continue, so like I said there is no "best option." Just what you THINK is the best for your galaxy and your character's values.

Modifié par BABEik52092, 30 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[The Edge]

Apathy1989 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape every person in the galaxy, forcing homogenization and betraying the ideas of unity despite diversity laid out in the series.

Control: Accept TIMs ideas as right despite shooting him a few seconds before. Betray the idea of self-determination and choice laid out in the series.

Destroy: Do what I set out to do from day 1 in this damn series. Accept the loss of EDI and Geth with some tears.

The situation changed with the reason for the reapers being revealed.

Not for me it didn't. Starchilds reasoning was flawed.

Agreed. Organics can cause the same amount of destruction to other species and to themselves, yet synthetics are singled out to be the ONLY threat to organic life.

Because, as of now, Star-Child's logic is flawed, what does that say about the solutions it proposes?

[KitaSaturnyne]

Firecell11 wrote...

if synthesis is the best ending why had you to stop saren in me1?

Saren wanted to appease the Reapers, for organics to become slaves, not to merge with them.

[Kreid]

Firecell11 wrote...
saren wanted  synthesis
he was stopped still reapers came and harvest everybody or am I wrong?

You didn't stop Saren because he liked transhumanism, you stopped him because he wanted to unleash genocidal machines that destroy all advanced civilizations, Saren's ideals were out of this equation, maybe I agree the future is a synthetic/organic hybrid race or maybe I'm against it but that was not the point.

Modifié par Creid-X, 30 avril 2012 - 11:09 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

Firecell11 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...

if synthesis is the best ending why had you to stop saren in me1?

That's a question for the writers and thier poor writing, in other words I have no idea.

"poor writing" exactly

I'm tired of reading this garbage.

You had to stop Saren because he was indoctrinated. The Reapers only told him what he wanted to hear. If Saren wasn't stopped then the Reapers would have came and harvested everybody.

saren wanted  synthesis
he was stopped still reapers came and harvest everybody or am I wrong?

You are correct

[Obeded the 2nd]

Creid-X wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...
saren wanted  synthesis
he was stopped still reapers came and harvest everybody or am I wrong?

You didn't stop Saren because he liked transhumanism, you stopped him because he wanted to unleash genocidal machines that destroy all advanced civilizations, Saren's ideals were out of this equation, maybe I agree the future is a synthetic/organic hybrid race or maybe I'm against it but that was not the point.

Alos correct

[Obeded the 2nd]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...

if synthesis is the best ending why had you to stop saren in me1?

Saren wanted to appease the Reapers, for organics to become slaves, not to merge with them.

I think he says something that suggests otherwise, this is why people belive synthesis is what saren would do.

[Obeded the 2nd]

The Edge wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape every person in the galaxy, forcing homogenization and betraying the ideas of unity despite diversity laid out in the series.

Control: Accept TIMs ideas as right despite shooting him a few seconds before. Betray the idea of self-determination and choice laid out in the series.

Destroy: Do what I set out to do from day 1 in this damn series. Accept the loss of EDI and Geth with some tears.

The situation changed with the reason for the reapers being revealed.

Not for me it didn't. Starchilds reasoning was flawed.

Agreed. Organics can cause the same amount of destruction to other species and to themselves, yet synthetics are singled out to be the ONLY threat to organic life.

Because, as of now, Star-Child's logic is flawed, what does that say about the solutions it proposes?

No, your missing the point.
Synthetics are not the only threat to organic life however they are the only threat that can destroy all organics.

[Obeded the 2nd]

BABEik52092 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

BABEik52092 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

BABEik52092 wrote...


None of the endings show the "future" of what happens beyond the normandy crash, therefore you have NO PROOF that the synthesis choice has the best future and is the best option.

No, but from evidence gathered ingame this is the only logiccal explanation.

If by "evidence" you mean that Starchild says its the "final evolution of life" and that its his ultimate goal, thats great for him. But the "final evolution of life" doesn't mean the best future. There is little other evidence to show that synthesis is the "best or most logical" choice.

No, imean destroy dooms the glaxy and control ether lets the cycle be continued or the galaxy can be doomed and the reapers have a tough task ahead of them, see OP for futher info if you haven't already,

Ok destroy doesn't "doom" the galaxy in any worse way than the other two endings. Yeah the geth are destroyed which kinda sucks but its a blank slate for everyone. We can choose our own path without the Reapers "protection" and we can create new synthetics and be careful knowing what we do now and make sure we treat them so that we don't want them to "rebel", like the quarians did to the geth. And yes the relays are destroyed but that happens in the synthesis ending too. So by your logic we would be "doomed" in the synthesis ending as well.

You need to clarify as to what "dooms" the galaxy.

In all three endings the "cycle" of synthetics rebeling and killing organics can continue, so like I said there is no "best option." Just what you THINK is the best for your galaxy and your character's values.

My OP sated why destroy dooms the galaxy.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Isichar wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Going to bed.
If you have questios please still ask I am happy to answer them it will just take awhile for me to get around to answering it .

Night and ty for the discussion

Its tricky arguing this stuff sometimes without it turning into a flame war.

Agreed though if you still want something answered/clarified I will respond it will just take longer

[Obeded the 2nd]

The Edge wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

The Edge wrote...

You would have to neglect Shephard's past experiences in order to come to this conclusion, OP.

(IMO) If I am to understand correctly, Saren wanted a synthesis-like solution; he turned out to be indoctrinated. TIM wanted the control-like solution; he turned out to be indoctrinated.

Shephard has been working the entire time to destroy the Reapers, but at the very end (by your definition) his goal was in fact "wrong" the whole time? That approach, I admit, is a great twist that would work in a properly made novel. For a game with CHOICE as it's headline to pull the carpet out from under the player is not clever, it's just cruel.

I picked Synthesis the first time, but after rethinking that choice, I went with the Destroy ending because it sticks to Shepard's guns and rejects the antagonistic notions of the first two games. At the end of the day, however, the endings at face value are all crappy. (/IMO)

No sheps goal was correct but the situation changed after learnign the reapers true reason for well, reaping.

The true reason, to keep organics from being wiped out by the synthetics that they create by killing the organics, doesn't make sense. If human beings are any indication, organics are more than capable of wiping themselves out without the help of synthetic upheaval. Why, then, is so much attention paid to synthetics when organics can do the same amount of damage to themselves?

As I see it, the reasons for harvesting organics doesn't make any sense. If the Reaper's goal doesn't make sense, what does that say about the solutions they propose? The fact that Synthesis/Control options were supported by two people indoctrinated by the Reapers makes those solutions unfavorable; the same can be said about Destroy (because it is an option given by the Starchild), but if one was to make a choice, destroying the thing that is feeding this twisted logic seems like the best (which is relative to how terrible the options are) choice.

The synthetics will always win, 100% every time they are jsut to powerful.
True organics could wipe themselves out but the chances are far less likly.

[N7Gold]

The galaxy is better off with the Reapers destroyed no matter how you justify the other endings.

[Bantz]

the flaw in your explanation is that synthesis doesn't make any damn sense A, and B it doesn't stop the reapers "problem". In the post game cinematic you see joker get off the ship still limping with the only visible change being his eyes now glow green. We know NOTHING of what actually changes in organic life. So there is nothing that will stop them from saying "man this farming stuff is bull****, tali go build us some robots to do this for us."

[Obeded the 2nd]

N7Gold wrote...

The galaxy is better off with the Reapers destroyed no matter how you justify the other endings.

Yes but long-term wise it goes
1) synthesis
2) control
3) destory.

Short-term may be opposite but long-term is far more important if you ask me

[frylock23]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

The Edge wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape every person in the galaxy, forcing homogenization and betraying the ideas of unity despite diversity laid out in the series.

Control: Accept TIMs ideas as right despite shooting him a few seconds before. Betray the idea of self-determination and choice laid out in the series.

Destroy: Do what I set out to do from day 1 in this damn series. Accept the loss of EDI and Geth with some tears.

The situation changed with the reason for the reapers being revealed.

Not for me it didn't. Starchilds reasoning was flawed.

Agreed. Organics can cause the same amount of destruction to other species and to themselves, yet synthetics are singled out to be the ONLY threat to organic life.

Because, as of now, Star-Child's logic is flawed, what does that say about the solutions it proposes?

No, your missing the point.
Synthetics are not the only threat to organic life however they are the only threat that can destroy all organics.

And, thanks to the synthesis solution, they DO destroy all organics. Congratulations!

[Obeded the 2nd]

Bantz wrote...

the flaw in your explanation is that synthesis doesn't make any damn sense A, and B it doesn't stop the reapers "problem". In the post game cinematic you see joker get off the ship still limping with the only visible change being his eyes now glow green. We know NOTHING of what actually changes in organic life. So there is nothing that will stop them from saying "man this farming stuff is bull****, tali go build us some robots to do this for us."

It was written poorly I agree, owever that doesn't mean we can't find the most obvious soultion for where it will end up which is the best of the three.

[Obeded the 2nd]

frylock23 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

The Edge wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape every person in the galaxy, forcing homogenization and betraying the ideas of unity despite diversity laid out in the series.

Control: Accept TIMs ideas as right despite shooting him a few seconds before. Betray the idea of self-determination and choice laid out in the series.

Destroy: Do what I set out to do from day 1 in this damn series. Accept the loss of EDI and Geth with some tears.

The situation changed with the reason for the reapers being revealed.

Not for me it didn't. Starchilds reasoning was flawed.

Agreed. Organics can cause the same amount of destruction to other species and to themselves, yet synthetics are singled out to be the ONLY threat to organic life.

Because, as of now, Star-Child's logic is flawed, what does that say about the solutions it proposes?

No, your missing the point.
Synthetics are not the only threat to organic life however they are the only threat that can destroy all organics.

And, thanks to the synthesis solution, they DO destroy all organics. Congratulations!

How did you get to that?

[frylock23]

Bantz wrote...

the flaw in your explanation is that synthesis doesn't make any damn sense A, and B it doesn't stop the reapers "problem". In the post game cinematic you see joker get off the ship still limping with the only visible change being his eyes now glow green. We know NOTHING of what actually changes in organic life. So there is nothing that will stop them from saying "man this farming stuff is bull****, tali go build us some robots to do this for us."

No, we do know one very important thing - there are no more organics.

Synthesis is the end of all organic life. Tech singularity wins!

[frylock23]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

The Edge wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Synthesis: Rape every person in the galaxy, forcing homogenization and betraying the ideas of unity despite diversity laid out in the series.

Control: Accept TIMs ideas as right despite shooting him a few seconds before. Betray the idea of self-determination and choice laid out in the series.

Destroy: Do what I set out to do from day 1 in this damn series. Accept the loss of EDI and Geth with some tears.

The situation changed with the reason for the reapers being revealed.

Not for me it didn't. Starchilds reasoning was flawed.

Agreed. Organics can cause the same amount of destruction to other species and to themselves, yet synthetics are singled out to be the ONLY threat to organic life.

Because, as of now, Star-Child's logic is flawed, what does that say about the solutions it proposes?

No, your missing the point.
Synthetics are not the only threat to organic life however they are the only threat that can destroy all organics.

And, thanks to the synthesis solution, they DO destroy all organics. Congratulations!

How did you get to that?

How do you not?

If you fuse all organic and all synthetic life. There will be no more organic life. It ceases to exist. It is something other.