285 réponses à ce sujet

[Dendio1]

Then why play paragon at all. When push comes to shove and its the 11th hour, everyone goes ends justifies the means. Everyones a renegade

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 mai 2012 - 12:10 .

[Sisterofshane]

Dendio1 wrote...

I imagine if you wiped out the turians or the asari would you feel worse?

Its pretty evil of shepard to do such a thing. Making a backroom deal with the enemy that wipes out his ally as they fight for him.

What?  It's not a deal.  It's not like the Catalyst says "We'll leave, but only if you destroy the Geth!" and then you shake hands.  The death of synthetic life is an unfortunate side effect of implementing the Crucible to end the war with the Reapers - collateral damage.

It is entirely regrettable, but let us all remember one thing - every single individual that gathered at Earth understands that they are fighting for the right for the Galaxy to self-determinate.  Each of us must be ready to sacrifice ourselves and possibly more  if it means that future generations will no longer be subject to the Reaper's tyrannous cycle.

Certainly less evil then allowing a false sense of peace.

[ragnorok87]

Navasha wrote...

No... If the Destroy option stated that it would kill all humans, but allowed the galaxy to live.... I still would have chose it.

The race in question isn't the issue. Its like wiping out NYC with a nuclear bomb in order to stop a deadly virus from killing everyone on Earth. Yes, its a horrible decision.... but the RIGHT one.

The other two options are only MORE horrific.

i would have rather had the humans die then the geth

[Slayer299]

It's not exactly like you've got a lot of options there OP. You have; blow everything up, turn everyone into Reapers and turn yourself into a Reaper so you can continue the cycle down the road.

At least the Geth should be able to be recreated since they're software.

[Dendio1]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I imagine if you wiped out the turians or the asari would you feel worse?

Its pretty evil of shepard to do such a thing. Making a backroom deal with the enemy that wipes out his ally as they fight for him.

What?  It's not a deal.  It's not like the Catalyst says "We'll leave, but only if you destroy the Geth!" and then you shake hands.  The death of synthetic life is an unfortunate side effect of implementing the Crucible to end the war with the Reapers - collateral damage.

It is entirely regrettable, but let us all remember one thing - every single individual that gathered at Earth understands that they are fighting for the right for the Galaxy to self-determinate.  Each of us must be ready to sacrifice ourselves and possibly more  if it means that future generations will no longer be subject to the Reaper's tyrannous cycle.

Certainly less evil then allowing a false sense of peace.

How Ironic that the geth initially sided with the reapers purely for survival. Self determination takes a back seat next to non existance for them. They let the reapers control them fully. Yet they believed in shepard and decided to fight for the organics against the old machines. The cut content has geth prime deliberatly say they are fighting for their survival.

Looks like they should have stayed with the reapers after all.

[EnvyTB075]

Seeing as its not 100% that they die in destroy....

[AlexMBrennan]

I imagine if you wiped out the turians or the asari would you feel worse?

You're assuming that the game doesn't fail completely at making us suspend just enough belief to accept that geth are anything more than toasters. I just don't buy it.

Then why play paragon at all.

Pargon is about using violence as a last resort and all that. This implies that, occasionally, not using violence is not an option.

Looks like they should have stayed with the reapers after all.

Ahem... the only reason the Reapers are doing this is to stop organics from making synthetics...

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 01 mai 2012 - 12:21 .

[babachewie]

They're just machines

[Goaliebot]

Gust4v wrote...

Well, at least they can be recreated.

Nope. Residual red space magic means AI can never be recreated. Also, it made all planets whose names end in "-urn" get reverse gravity, and it made everyone on Mars grow a toe in the middle of their foreheads.

...

SPACE MAGIC!

[Vox Draco]

Dendio1 wrote...

Then why play paragon at all. When push comes to shove and its the 11th hour, everyone goes ends justifies the means. Everyones a renegade

Because even the paragons should not gamble with the galaxy and countless lifes at stake, orbase their decisions on mere wishful thinking that everything the green/blue options "promise" (which they actually do not) is maybe true or end positive...with the REapers stil laround...

But I agree...paragon and renegade do not matter in the end. Whats important for Shepard is common sense and his amount of trust in the catalyst...as I see it, this will always lead my paragons to make the hardchoice and safe the galaxy's future without the Reapers influence

[Sisterofshane]

Dendio1 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I imagine if you wiped out the turians or the asari would you feel worse?

Its pretty evil of shepard to do such a thing. Making a backroom deal with the enemy that wipes out his ally as they fight for him.

What?  It's not a deal.  It's not like the Catalyst says "We'll leave, but only if you destroy the Geth!" and then you shake hands.  The death of synthetic life is an unfortunate side effect of implementing the Crucible to end the war with the Reapers - collateral damage.

It is entirely regrettable, but let us all remember one thing - every single individual that gathered at Earth understands that they are fighting for the right for the Galaxy to self-determinate.  Each of us must be ready to sacrifice ourselves and possibly more  if it means that future generations will no longer be subject to the Reaper's tyrannous cycle.

Certainly less evil then allowing a false sense of peace.

How Ironic that the geth initially sided with the reapers purely for survival. Self determination takes a back seat next to non existance for them. They let the reapers control them fully. Yet they believed in shepard and decided to fight for the organics against the old machines. The cut content has geth prime deliberatly say they are fighting for their survival.

Looks like they should have stayed with the reapers after all.

As if anyone else there is doing anything less.  I would like to think that, rather then being ruled by pure emotion, if a geth were standing in my place and the Catalyst said that choosing destroy would wipe out all humans, that the Geth would shoot the tube.

Because the stakes, as it were, are as follows when we enter the final battle - defeat the Reapers, or everything dies.  EVERYTHING.  The only option that forever rids the universe of the Reaper Threat is destroy.

[Dendio1]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I imagine if you wiped out the turians or the asari would you feel worse?

Its pretty evil of shepard to do such a thing. Making a backroom deal with the enemy that wipes out his ally as they fight for him.

What?  It's not a deal.  It's not like the Catalyst says "We'll leave, but only if you destroy the Geth!" and then you shake hands.  The death of synthetic life is an unfortunate side effect of implementing the Crucible to end the war with the Reapers - collateral damage.

It is entirely regrettable, but let us all remember one thing - every single individual that gathered at Earth understands that they are fighting for the right for the Galaxy to self-determinate.  Each of us must be ready to sacrifice ourselves and possibly more  if it means that future generations will no longer be subject to the Reaper's tyrannous cycle.

Certainly less evil then allowing a false sense of peace.

How Ironic that the geth initially sided with the reapers purely for survival. Self determination takes a back seat next to non existance for them. They let the reapers control them fully. Yet they believed in shepard and decided to fight for the organics against the old machines. The cut content has geth prime deliberatly say they are fighting for their survival.

Looks like they should have stayed with the reapers after all.

As if anyone else there is doing anything less.  I would like to think that, rather then being ruled by pure emotion, if a geth were standing in my place and the Catalyst said that choosing destroy would wipe out all humans, that the Geth would shoot the tube.

Because the stakes, as it were, are as follows when we enter the final battle - defeat the Reapers, or everything dies.  EVERYTHING.  The only option that forever rids the universe of the Reaper Threat is destroy.

Technically organic life continues. The next cycle will get their time, the same way we got ours free of prothean domination

[IanPolaris]

Dendio1 wrote...

How Ironic that the geth initially sided with the reapers purely for survival. Self determination takes a back seat next to non existance for them. They let the reapers control them fully. Yet they believed in shepard and decided to fight for the organics against the old machines. The cut content has geth prime deliberatly say they are fighting for their survival.

Looks like they should have stayed with the reapers after all.

Not really.  I would say it' tragic.  The Geth were desperate and the Reapers offered an easy way out and the panicing Geth took it and didn't realize they had signed a devil's bargin until it was too late.  Legion himself comments that the Geth had no idea just how corrupted their concensus would be by Reaper code before they did it.

There is cut dialog (not cut if you killed the Quarians) by the Geth Prime Commander saying that the Reapers made another offer to the Geth and the Geth turned them down flat and said the Geth would never again trust the old machines.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I imagine if you wiped out the turians or the asari would you feel worse?

Its pretty evil of shepard to do such a thing. Making a backroom deal with the enemy that wipes out his ally as they fight for him.

What?  It's not a deal.  It's not like the Catalyst says "We'll leave, but only if you destroy the Geth!" and then you shake hands.  The death of synthetic life is an unfortunate side effect of implementing the Crucible to end the war with the Reapers - collateral damage.

It is entirely regrettable, but let us all remember one thing - every single individual that gathered at Earth understands that they are fighting for the right for the Galaxy to self-determinate.  Each of us must be ready to sacrifice ourselves and possibly more  if it means that future generations will no longer be subject to the Reaper's tyrannous cycle.

Certainly less evil then allowing a false sense of peace.

How Ironic that the geth initially sided with the reapers purely for survival. Self determination takes a back seat next to non existance for them. They let the reapers control them fully. Yet they believed in shepard and decided to fight for the organics against the old machines. The cut content has geth prime deliberatly say they are fighting for their survival.

Looks like they should have stayed with the reapers after all.

As if anyone else there is doing anything less.  I would like to think that, rather then being ruled by pure emotion, if a geth were standing in my place and the Catalyst said that choosing destroy would wipe out all humans, that the Geth would shoot the tube.

Because the stakes, as it were, are as follows when we enter the final battle - defeat the Reapers, or everything dies.  EVERYTHING.  The only option that forever rids the universe of the Reaper Threat is destroy.

Even more to the point if Legion were in your place and given the same options, I don't doubt for a moment, he'd pick destroy.  It is the logical choice.

-Polaris

[darkiddd]

The entire galaxy fights for you and you turn them into a mix of organic and machine

That's also pretty evil isn't it?

The entire galaxy fights for you and you decide to control the reapers instead of destroying them (ignoring the fact that you should couldn't really control them and argued to control them not even 5 min ago against TIM)

That's also pretty evil isn't it?

Every ending has its pros and cons. But destroy is clearly the less bad of them and you actually beat the reapers, and that's what you were meant to do.

[NoUserNameHere]

It's the starchild's stupid device and the starchild's stupid solution. Blame him. Shep's just picking from three nonsensical choices.

[Dendio1]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

It's the starchild's stupid device and the starchild's stupid solution. Blame him. Shep's just picking from three nonsensical choices.

Ultimately I agree, Shepard does some form of horror on a massive scale no matter what you do.

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 mai 2012 - 12:44 .

[M0keys]

Gust4v wrote...

Well, at least they can be recreated.

Why do so many people say this? Did you guys totally miss the part of the story where Legion sacrificed himself so all the Geth would become unique individuals?

You can't truly rebuild vanished minds. Even if you could, they'd just be clones of a consciousness and the actual  sense-thought-perspectives on which they were based would still be dead.

[IanPolaris]

Dendio1 wrote...

NoUserNameHere wrote...

It's the starchild's stupid device and the starchild's stupid solution. Blame him. Shep's just picking from three nonsensical choices.

Ultimately I agree, Shepard does some form of horror on a massive scale no matter what you do.

Mass Effect 3: Pick Your Warcrime!

-Polaris

[NoUserNameHere]

babachewie wrote...

They're just machines

If your Shep believes that, then the Geth died above Rannoch already.

You debate this organics v. synthetics conundrum in act II. You make your descision... and no matter what you chose it rears its ugly head once more in the endgame. There are no words to describe a storytelling failure on this level.


... now if your choices re: the Genophage and Rannoch somehow changed the tone or types of ending options you recieved then it's a whole new debate.

[KingNothing125]

fle6isnow wrote...

Ruthless calculus of war, man.

[IanPolaris]

M0keys wrote...

Gust4v wrote...

Well, at least they can be recreated.

Why do so many people say this? Did you guys totally miss the part of the story where Legion sacrificed himself so all the Geth would become unique individuals?

You can't truly rebuild vanished minds. Even if you could, they'd just be clones of a consciousness and the actual  sense-thought-perspectives on which they were based would still be dead.

Yes but the Geth understand sacrifice.  If they didn't, they wouldn't be helping you.  They even understand there is a real chance they will cease to exist as a race during this battle, but come anyway.  I believe based on what Legion and the other Geth have said (including the Geth Prime Commander if the Quarians are dead) that the Geth would insist that you end the Old Machine Threat forever.  That it's the only 'logical' decision.

-Polaris

Edit:  If the alternative was "all humans must die", the result would be the same.  Destroy the Reapers and end the threat forever.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 01 mai 2012 - 12:45 .

[nitefyre410]

IanPolaris wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

NoUserNameHere wrote...

It's the starchild's stupid device and the starchild's stupid solution. Blame him. Shep's just picking from three nonsensical choices.

Ultimately I agree, Shepard does some form of horror on a massive scale no matter what you do.

Mass Effect 3: Pick Your Warcrime!

-Polaris

 


Game of the Year  Confirmed ... and  the Geneva convention complained about Modern  Warfare 3 

[Cancer Puppet]

Yeah, I really hated the entire concept. "Cool, after 300 years of conflict I've finally resolved the issues between the Geth and the Quarians. Wait, what's that? Homogenizing all life in the galaxy, and controlling the very threat I've been trying to wipe out, are my only options? No, I can blow up all synthetic life, even if that's not something I want, too? And all of this is accomplished through space magic you say? FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU......."

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 01 mai 2012 - 12:46 .

[M0keys]

IanPolaris wrote...

M0keys wrote...

Gust4v wrote...

Well, at least they can be recreated.

Why do so many people say this? Did you guys totally miss the part of the story where Legion sacrificed himself so all the Geth would become unique individuals?

You can't truly rebuild vanished minds. Even if you could, they'd just be clones of a consciousness and the actual  sense-thought-perspectives on which they were based would still be dead.

Yes but the Geth understand sacrifice.  If they didn't, they wouldn't be helping you.  They even understand there is a real chance they will cease to exist as a race during this battle, but come anyway.  I believe based on what Legion and the other Geth have said (including the Geth Prime Commander if the Quarians are dead) that the Geth would insist that you end the Old Machine Threat forever.  That it's the only 'logical' decision.

-Polaris

But they didn't get a say.

You don't knock on your best friend's door, shoot him in the head when he greets you, and then call up the terrorist who's holding the city hostage and say, "yeah, you can disarm that nuke now! I killed him!"

It's not just murder, it's weak-willed and utterly gullible.