183 réponses à ce sujet

[Michale_Jackson]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

"not communative at all"?
Traynor has more cutscenes with more than just "nothing right now" or "you have unread messages in your private terminal"
Kelly chambers was poorly written in ME3 and ME2. Traynor was very well written for female Shepard.

Who fault do you think that is?


Why do you folks keep throwing useless points and silly excuses instead of ignoring the elephant in the room.

[cerberus1701]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

like seriously?  Traynor seems so fake and not communciative at all compared to the previous woman that filled that position.  

Why Bioware?  Why couldn't you leave well enough alone and let Kelly get her job back on the Normandy like Dr. Chakwas.

Do anyone else here dislike Traynor?


<< btw I'm a male Shepard.

Fake? Traynor had way better dialogue than Chambers. Traynor actually had a specialization and used it and talked competently about it. Kelly? For an alleged psychologist she has nothing of any depth to say. All her commentary is just  semi-cutesy  one liners ("Oh, make sure you warn me if Jack gets mad. Oh, Grunt makes me soooooo scared. (bats eyelashes) Pleeeease Shepard, protect me."

Traynor's skill takes you to key points in the game. Chambers not only takes you nowhere, she always impressed me as more than a bit of a ditz.

That, said, she's still awesome to me because the galaxy is disintegrating around her and Cerberus is hunting her, and she's still taking care of your fish.

That's dedication.

Modifié par cerberus1701, 01 mai 2012 - 08:27 .

[medcsu]

Sunnie22 wrote...

medcsu wrote...

Traynor is considerably more important to the mission than Kelly ever was. Besides, and let's be honest here, Kelly was the one who brought scale itch on to the Normandy...just sayin...

Proof?

It's my universe, my word is law on what my characters are and have done other than canon related. My Shepard concluded this after Kelly making comments about being so "loving". In my universe, she was an animal lover, as well.

[TJX2045]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

"not communative at all"?
Traynor has more cutscenes with more than just "nothing right now" or "you have unread messages in your private terminal"
Kelly chambers was poorly written in ME3 and ME2. Traynor was very well written for female Shepard.

Who fault do you think that is?


Why do you folks keep throwing useless points and silly excuses instead of ignoring the elephant in the room.

No one is making useless points and throwing silly excuses.  Everyone headcanons the game differently.  I know some people didn't like Kelly.  I know some people don't like Sam like yourself.  It all is based on how one perceived their characters.

I persnally like them both, but like I said earlier, as much as you would like to headcanon that Kelly was "fine" during the suicide mission, she was not.  She may have been trying to keep it together so not to freak out the rest of them even more after everything they experienced, and a mental breakdown in the middle of the mission would've probably done wonders to morale IMO.

No matter what we say, you're just going to be upset about Sam being there instead of Kelly.  The real people you need to ask about the "point of replacing" Kelly are the people who wrote the characters that way in the first place.  Don't attack people simply for stating their point because the way they feel is how they canoned their storyline, just like you are.  Your ideal one would be without Sam replacing Kelly.  Mine is that Kelly is too traumatized and would not be much help with all the other twisted things going on with the harvesting of other races.

[Ianamus]

I really liked Traynor actually, and I thought that she was 100000x better than Kelly. She was smart, spoke to you about non girly things, had a well rounded backstory, was not white or heterosexual, and came across as a much more realistic and likeable than Kelly, who played into several tired bisexual, secretarial and psychologist stereotypes.

Modifié par EJ107, 01 mai 2012 - 10:02 .

[Michale_Jackson]

TJX2045 wrote...

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

"not communative at all"?
Traynor has more cutscenes with more than just "nothing right now" or "you have unread messages in your private terminal"
Kelly chambers was poorly written in ME3 and ME2. Traynor was very well written for female Shepard.

Who fault do you think that is?


Why do you folks keep throwing useless points and silly excuses instead of ignoring the elephant in the room.

No one is making useless points and throwing silly excuses.  Everyone headcanons the game differently.  I know some people didn't like Kelly.  I know some people don't like Sam like yourself.  It all is based on how one perceived their characters.

I persnally like them both, but like I said earlier, as much as you would like to headcanon that Kelly was "fine" during the suicide mission, she was not.  She may have been trying to keep it together so not to freak out the rest of them even more after everything they experienced, and a mental breakdown in the middle of the mission would've probably done wonders to morale IMO.

No matter what we say, you're just going to be upset about Sam being there instead of Kelly.  The real people you need to ask about the "point of replacing" Kelly are the people who wrote the characters that way in the first place.  Don't attack people simply for stating their point because the way they feel is how they canoned their storyline, just like you are.  Your ideal one would be without Sam replacing Kelly.  Mine is that Kelly is too traumatized and would not be much help with all the other twisted things going on with the harvesting of other races.

That's what I'm getting at, the elephant. Bioware!  If it weren't for them writing Kelly such a stupid story in ME3 like being tramataized you guys wouldn't be here repeating that stupid garbage.  She didn't potray herself as tramataized after I rescued her in ME2. 

Someone here in this thread made an excellent point, that Traynor should have been made as an optional character for the nubs who killed their ME2 Normandy Crew.

Much like how you get a generic Salarian if you let Mordin die in ME2, or a generic Krogan if you let Wrex die in ME1.

[quickitsbob]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

"not communative at all"?
Traynor has more cutscenes with more than just "nothing right now" or "you have unread messages in your private terminal"
Kelly chambers was poorly written in ME3 and ME2. Traynor was very well written for female Shepard.

Who fault do you think that is?


Why do you folks keep throwing useless points and silly excuses instead of ignoring the elephant in the room.

No one is making useless points and throwing silly excuses.  Everyone headcanons the game differently.  I know some people didn't like Kelly.  I know some people don't like Sam like yourself.  It all is based on how one perceived their characters.

I persnally like them both, but like I said earlier, as much as you would like to headcanon that Kelly was "fine" during the suicide mission, she was not.  She may have been trying to keep it together so not to freak out the rest of them even more after everything they experienced, and a mental breakdown in the middle of the mission would've probably done wonders to morale IMO.

No matter what we say, you're just going to be upset about Sam being there instead of Kelly.  The real people you need to ask about the "point of replacing" Kelly are the people who wrote the characters that way in the first place.  Don't attack people simply for stating their point because the way they feel is how they canoned their storyline, just like you are.  Your ideal one would be without Sam replacing Kelly.  Mine is that Kelly is too traumatized and would not be much help with all the other twisted things going on with the harvesting of other races.

  She didn't potray herself as tramataized after I rescued her in ME2. 

heres a clip of kelly post suicide mission thats shows some of her ptsd 
  sure she seems to go back to normal but a person just can't ignore what happened there. Even Dr. Chakwas had been disturbed by what she had seen in the base and shares it with adams during tuchanka arc of ME3

[Shadow Shep]

Well my Kelly was turned to human paste, so I don't see much use for her on the Alliance Normandy.

[Zkyire]

Traynor has a much better personality than Kelly. That whole "I love everything" attitude of Kelly's got really tiresome, really fast. It's a military vessel, it is designed to kill and destroy, filled with soldiers trained to kill and destroy. And here you have peace-loving-tree-hugging-gosh-darn-it-I-just-absolutely-love-all-aliens Kelly Chambers in the middle of it all.

..on the other hand Kelly ****ed a Varren.


Choosing one over the other is a hard decision.

[Typhoniel]

I was pretty amused about the E-Mail I got from Kelly at the end of ME2....Send by "KellyGrrl". That was funny, I loved that she was kind of an internet person that has some really bad nickname.

But now I am nerdloving my Traynor.

Edit: I forgot that this was the "no spoiler" forum and killed some slight ME3 storythings. Thanks for the advice.

Modifié par Typhoniel, 02 mai 2012 - 01:12 .

[Shadow Shep]

@Typhoniel

Sorry to be "that guy" but there are a couple slight spoilers in your reply.

[Eromenos]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Kelly Chambers the Human Screensaver was a bubbly sick joke even from the start. Why shouldn't she be devalued for ME3? If anything her content in ME3 seems way more appropriate. I'm not surprised to hear that creature had PTSD. She was never solid, especially considering her combined credentials and choice to be with Cerberus.

This news about Traynor showering in bra and panties is eye-roll inducing to be sure, but at least it's only relegated to one scene and only for the people who romance her. Whereas, Kelly's stalking habits surpassed Liara's. Traynor does exhibit hero-worship and she could stand to read some of her lines a bit faster, but at least she's more about the jobs at hand. She isn't some sad creature that hopes Shepard will take pity on her.

What a load of BS.  Traynor practically begs for female Shepard and EDI to take pitty on her.  

Traynor is more "Krillin" for EDI than Joker.


Sick Sad World. <_<

Whatever you say, but remember to spend time with your honey Kelly. She needs you! Even when she was busy pushing her neediness indiscriminately at every Shepard I'm sure she favored yours. And she's certainly all yours. Poor PTSD thing.

I just realized Traynor's romance might be inspired by Battlestar Galactica: Razor. Female refit specialist takes up with the female CO after the universe goes to hell. Except this time it's actually meant to be flattering to RL lesbians.

Come to think of it, there is no nudity for any characters' romance scenes. So the showering in underwear is no more ridiculous than any of the others'.

Modifié par Eromenos, 02 mai 2012 - 12:42 .

[Darth Death]

Mykel54 wrote...

Kelly at least made sense, she was a people´s person who monitored the crew for you, telling you when something was going on that needed your attention. Traynor on the other hand is some kind of superb comm officer, which is capable of tracking things EDI can´t, and then find time to make jokes and play chess with shepard, and also monitor the crew. So Traynor is like multitasking the whole time doing the job of a lot of people and doing it perfectly, so much that shepard can´t help but praise her awesome sidequest tracking skills. In my opinion she is unrealistic, Kelly was more defined in a role and didn´t advice shepard about mission stuff, because she wasn´t specialist in that, she stuck to her thing, much like Chakwas or other characters stick to their business.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

I have the opposite opinion about these characters. Never liked Kelly when I played ME2, was worried that Traynor would be too much like her as a "replacement", and was glad to see that they were very different. I didn't feel like my character could be friends with Kelly because many of her conversations were based on flirtations, her interest in Shepard or other characters in the squad. I avoided her whenever possible. With Traynor, my Shepards can get to know her as a person and be friends.

In addition to that, she was really helping out with the war effort, so it made sense for my Shepards to want her there even if they're not the type to be friends. Kelly's job came off as a psychiatrist that many of my Shepards didn't want around.

[aeonlifestream]

I actually liked Traynor. She actually did more than Kelly, and actually moved around the ship in certain cutscenes.

[Seracen]

I didn't mind Traynor, they just tried too hard to make her overtly "lesbian." Like, why does she have to sound like she needs a change of shorts when she mentions the first time she heard EDI's voice?

Also, she doesn't exactly hit on Shep, nor does Cortez. Their romances just kind of spring out of nowhere. You flip and switcvh and it's go time. I would think they wouldn't just go for it b/c hey, they randomly found another gay person.

I'm straight and I still find that somewhat overly convenient. Barring that, I only have ONE other MAJOR problem with Traynor...

If Liara really IS the Shadow Broker, why the heck wasn't SHE the one to give all the intel on Cerberus? Failing that, why didn't her contacts help to find the Cerberus Base? Liara, as the Shadow Broker, felt like a weak plot device.

Hopefully, if they do the Omega DLC, Liara has a major part in that plot, otherwise, her role as SB is pretty much pointless (barring a few War Assets...whoopee).

[Vormaerin]

Mykel54 wrote...

Kelly at least made sense, she was a people´s person who monitored the crew for you, telling you when something was going on that needed your attention. Traynor on the other hand is some kind of superb comm officer, which is capable of tracking things EDI can´t, and then find time to make jokes and play chess with shepard, and also monitor the crew. So Traynor is like multitasking the whole time doing the job of a lot of people and doing it perfectly, so much that shepard can´t help but praise her awesome sidequest tracking skills. In my opinion she is unrealistic, Kelly was more defined in a role and didn´t advice shepard about mission stuff, because she wasn´t specialist in that, she stuck to her thing, much like Chakwas or other characters stick to their business.

Except she's not doing most that stuff.

She is a communications technician handpicked to work on one of the most advanced ships in the fleet, so she's obviously very good at her job.   Which is Communications tech, NOT yeoman.   She's not "watching the crew", though considering how short staffed the ship is, that's not really hard.

EDI is an AI, but she's ultimately derived from a cyberwarfare suite.  It doesn't make her innately superior to everyone at everything.  Particularly not at things that involve guesswork and intuitive estimates.

As for cracking jokes and playing chess, why is that bizarre?  Everyone else has time to wander all over the Citadel, visiting cafes, getting tattoos, and hitting the night club... but Traynor is the one going crazy because she manages an evening of chess? 

Just what jobs of "a lot of people" is she doing?    She's doing one job... communications.  She's doing it very well, but not insanely well.

[jeweledleah]

Seracen wrote...

Also, she doesn't exactly hit on Shep, nor does Cortez. Their romances just kind of spring out of nowhere. You flip and switcvh and it's go time. I would think they wouldn't just go for it b/c hey, they randomly found another gay person.

I'm straight and I still find that somewhat overly convenient. Barring that, I only have ONE other MAJOR problem with Traynor...

If Liara really IS the Shadow Broker, why the heck wasn't SHE the one to give all the intel on Cerberus? Failing that, why didn't her contacts help to find the Cerberus Base? Liara, as the Shadow Broker, felt like a weak plot device.

ALL new romances in ME3 are like that (as well as imported ones if you don't rekindle them).  flip a switch?  its on.  flip a different switch?  and its like it never existed.

also - the reason why Sam is the one giving intel is becasue she's the one monitoring communications.  Liara is monitoring intel that comes from her agents, but its Traynor's job to monitor the "air" trafic.  which is why she is the one noticing all those odd signals and figuring out locations.  as its her specialty.

that said - its ok not to like a character.  there's nothing wrong with it.  honest.  its impossible to create a character that everyone would magicaly like and have them remain in any way realistic.  are preferences as individuals are far too diverse for that.
 
so if anyone likes one character, but dislikes the other?  its NORMAL.

[Vormaerin]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Every reason you're throwing at as to why Traynor is better suited is pointless because Bioware could have easily just stuck with Kelly Chambers for ME3 being on the Normandy and have that character do everything Traynor had. 

That could have easily have told the story as if Kelly defecting from Cerebus after ME2 getting hired and promoted by Commander Shepard.

Well, except that Kelly Chambers never showed an ounce of technical skills, so nearly all of what Traynor actually did would then have had to go to EDI or Liara...neither of whom need more screen time.   Though Liara could have benefited from the show of competence she otherwise seems to lack.

Also.... soldiers don't hire and fire people.  Shepard probably could have used his Spectre status to bring an ex-cerberus agent on board as a supernumerary, but hiring and promoting isn't in his authority.  Ken and Abby were former alliance personnel who got reinstated after Shepard gets the charges against them dropped.

[gbemery]

because how else were they to put in a crew member who was literally a play on words for new players to the game. Traynor = Trainer

[Oldbones2]

Thing is OP, Someone at Bioware hates Cerberus. So you're supposed to hate them too.

Yes, K. Chambers has PTSD, though it was only changed to be crippling PTSD in ME 3 as an excuse to get her off the ship.

Oddly enough Chakwas, Ken and Gabby, and the Virmire Survivor all seem more or less fine.

Seriously someone (cough Mac coughcough Walters coughcoughcough) hates Cerberus, and just had to ruin them cause, you aren't supposed to like them.

[SeismicGravy]

Mykel54 wrote...

Kelly at least made sense, she was a people´s person who monitored the crew for you, telling you when something was going on that needed your attention. .

She was also a grass, feeding the Illusive man data on every single thing you do.

How do I know?  If you get her to change her identity the first time you see her, she's still alive if you visit the citadel again before the Cerberus coup, and admits it.  (Not sure if getting her to change her ID is required in order to see her again before the attack.)

Traynor is far more useful, and less dim.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Michale_Jackson wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

"not communative at all"?
Traynor has more cutscenes with more than just "nothing right now" or "you have unread messages in your private terminal"
Kelly chambers was poorly written in ME3 and ME2. Traynor was very well written for female Shepard.

Who fault do you think that is?


Why do you folks keep throwing useless points and silly excuses instead of ignoring the elephant in the room.

For femshep???
Just because she rejects manshep advances? It was very good dialogue to have her reject manshep; manshep doesn't have the ability to romance anyone he wants, so i fail to see why all women should fall for him. sopposing that is the reason why she was only well written for just femshep.

Elephant?

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 02 mai 2012 - 03:44 .

[7isMagic]

"Commander, you've received a new message at your private terminal." or "No messages, Commander." Uttered incessently by Kelly in ME2 whenever my Shep entered the CIC and came anywhere near the galaxy map platform - even after he had ALREADY read his messages either in the CIC or in his cabin.

It got to be so annoying to me, entering the CIC became a "mute moment." I got into the habit of making sure I pressed the remote's mute button anytime I was about to come within earshot of Ms. Chambers.. (This could have been avoided with the trusty green light Shep now has at his disposal in ME3 - what a Godsend!)

Aside from her saying the same line over and over again, there was nothing about Kelly I found the least bit interesting. Her dialog was too fluffy, too sappy (not very professional for someone who is supposedly a trained psychologist).

Samantha was a welcomed departure and an undeniable breath of fresh air to say the least. Traynor had depth, she was personable but professional when in the CIC (not all bubbly or emotional like Kelly was). She contributed to the overall mission in very productive ways. And most of all, she didn't say "You've got mail" ALL THE TIME!

On the latter point alone, I wish my Shep could have the option of saying "Six thousand credits? No problem! Welcome aboard the Normandy, Specialist Traynor!"

[tanisha__unknown]

I liked Traynor better than Kelly. She had a more interesting personality and dialogue lines.