37 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdara]

BrotherWarth wrote...

A complaint many, including myself have of the ending is that no matter what you choose at the end it's the same. You can let Anders flee, but that has no visible impact. Siding with the Templars or mages proves irrelevent since you kill Orsino and Meredith in the same way, regardless. I know this is likely because of the ridiculous time constraints and lack of resources, but I would have loved the option to fully side with Anders(instead of being forced into outrage) and lead the rebellion with him. Rallying mages to your side, likely killing your companions that don't/wouldn't fall in line, slaying the Templars before they can kill innocent mages, etc. The choice would have several benefits.
One, it would make the ending have actual differences based on your choices. And two it would actually make Hawke relevant. Anders is obviously more important to what happens than Hawke is, but they just lazily give Hawke credit for the whole thing.

Anyone like the idea?

I would have liked the option, yes.  Some of my Hawke's wouldn't have taken it, but others would have.  

I get why Anders doesn't want to let Hawke in on it though - his name is sullied even to the other mages in the Circle when he blows up the Chantry and the real leader of the rebellion can't have that kind of reputation for complete instability and be an effective leader at the same time.  (Plus, let's face it, he is not leadership material - he's revolutionary material sure, but organizing an actualized uprising and all the intrapersonal skills it takes to manage multiple cells working together - I don't see him handling that well).

I do think there's a point to the deception though.  It's something Anders just can't share - it's between him and Justice at that point and no matter how close he is to Hawke, no matter how sure Anders might be that Hawke will support him - there is a stronger influence from Justice that urges him to act 'alone' for a number of reasons we never even get to really hear (which I would like in lieu of the option to join up with Anders in the act, at least).

[Cantina]

I suppose in a roundabout way if you choose to help Anders, you are somewhat involved with the destruction of the Chantry. As much as I would have liked to be involved more, it is understandable why Anders chose to keep this plan to himself. When it comes down to it, while Anders was involved, I believe Justice is the true culprit. At any rate, I cannot get pissed off with what Anders did and I understand why he lied to my Hawke. Then to top the sundae off I agree with what he did.

However, despite all that it seems as though the only choice Hawke chooses to make that matters is in the “Last Straw.”They could have easily just tossed in Act 3 for the whole game, simply because what you chose to do before Act 3 does not really matter (companions excluded here). Let us not forget too that the ending does not change much due to your choices in Act 3, it ends the same. Only small difference is choosing between the Templars and Mages, but overall, Meredith and Orsino still die.

Also, I’m still scratching my head the Chantry scene was placed in Lowtown, uh why was it not done in Hightown?! Each time I play this game seeing this scene play out looks off due to the relocation of the Chantry.

[TEWR]

As I said on the first page, the best time for Hawke to be involved in the Mage-Templar conflict was in Act II, in conjunction with the Qunari conflict. This way, it sets the framework for Act III.

If you want to support the Mages, there would be the Underground Railroad run by Mistress Selby, which should've had 15 quests to it.

If you want to support the Templars, the Chanter's board would have 15 quests.

They'd obviously be mutually exclusive and if you were to support the Templars it would probably cause Anders to run off. Because I cannot see why he would help Hawke support the Templars. At the very least, he would refuse to do any quests for them but would still be a party member for other things.

This way, Templar authority would be undermined -- on either path -- and Hawke would either be named Champion of the Mage Underground or Vanquisher of the Mage Underground.

Anders gives you a very poor reason for why you can't be involved with the Mage Underground in Act II, at least if you're pro-mage.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 04 mai 2012 - 06:49 .

[Cantina]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

As I said on the first page, the best time for Hawke to be involved in the Mage-Templar conflict was in Act II.

If you want to support the Mages, there would be the Underground Railroad run by Mistress Selby, which should've had 15 quests to it.

If you want to support the Templars, the Chanter's board would have 15 quests.

They'd obviously be mutually exclusive and if you were to support the Templars it would probably cause Anders to run off. Because I cannot see why he would help Hawke support the Templars. At the very least, he would refuse to do any quests for them but would still be a party member for other things.

This way, Templar authority would be undermined -- on either path -- and Hawke would either be named Champion of the Mage Underground or Vanquisher of the Mage Underground.

Anders gives you a very poor reason for why you can't be involved with the Mage Underground in Act II, at least if you're pro-mage.

I have to agree with your idea above, more so with Anders ****** poor excuse of why I cannot be involved with the Mage Underground.

My character did not give two sh!ts about being involved with the guard or nobility. She wanted to do more for mages, but the game was so limited on that area of what she could do.

If you have your friendship maxed with Anders, he should have trusted you to explain more about the Mage Underground. If your full rivalry, well you never get to know the details.

Modifié par Cantina, 04 mai 2012 - 06:53 .

[OMTING52601]

Honestly, I'd have liked the option to do either. If I were pro-templar, then the ability to put a stop to Anders plot long before the bomb, then tell Meredith about it and proceed to cull the circle as the end battle. If I were pro-mage, the ability to be in 100% on the plot, tell Orsino to get onboard cuz the mages are breaking free (so the ability to charm/intimidate him into joining or - if that failed - then kill him to get him out of the way) and then proceed to cull the Chantry as the end battle.

That would have made so much more sense, story wise IMO, as well as allowing for the avoidance of 'doesn't matter who I side with, I gotta kill everyone' boondoggle of the endgame.

Also, I think there should have been a third option to side with Kirkwall, aka neutral decision where Hawke backs Aveline and the guard to protect the citizens of Kirkwall from both sides, which, in its due course, could have allowed for the original ending to stay intact and where Hawke becoming Viscount without backing of Templars would have actually made sense and been possible.

FWIW.

Modifié par OMTING52601, 04 mai 2012 - 07:12 .

[TEWR]

Cantina wrote...

My character did not give two sh!ts about being involved with the guard or nobility. She wanted to do more for mages, but the game was so limited on that area of what she could do.

If you have your friendship maxed with Anders, he should have trusted you to explain more about the Mage Underground. If your full rivalry, well you never get to know the details.

The thing is that being a noble (mage) and having a close relationship with the Captain of the Guard would actually help the Mage Underground. Aveline's willing to bend the rules for her friends, Anders and Hawke among them.

No doubt that this would be a boon for the Mage Underground, were Hawke pro-mage. And so would Hawke's ties to the Smugglers, if Hawke sided with them.

[Emzamination]

Maker no, He set off a nuke that killed hundreds of Innocent people.There are just some lines you just don't cross, off with his head.

[DPSSOC]

Not really but mainly because Anders didn't really have a plan. The only semblance of a plan I can see is create an environment guaranteed to kill as many mages as possible, and then die. Short term battle strategy? Nope. Long term prospects? Nada. Escape plan? Grave.

If there were any indication he'd thought beyond ****** off the Templars and die yeah I might be interested, but the mages never managed to endear me to them (what with all but 2 of them being off their rocker) so I don't really have any motivation to help them. Which is pretty bad because I mostly roll a mage and they still can't make me like them.

[Ivucci]

Not sure.

It comes down to what was supposed to be the climax of DA2, the one event towards which the story moves. It might be that the writers wanted/needed the Chantry to be nuked at any rate. Even though people who have read the Asunder suggest that the event actually didn't come across as the spark that lighted up the mighty revolution in it (haven't read Asunder yet), it seems crucial in the context of the DA2 story.

Now a little hypocrisy moment: I usually support Anders in my playthroughs and let him live and - knowing all the details from his life - I understand why he did what he did, but I find it more difficult to find the motivation to nuke the Chantry for my Hawke. Anders is broken, desperate and determined, but the game doesn't create the same sense of desperation in my supposedly well-off Hawke, even if he/she’s a mage supporter. After they take away Bethany, why doesn’t Hawke run after the templars to try to get his/her sister out, sure, but blowing up the Chantry? In the game as we have it now, for Hawke to lead this action, it mostly doesn't add up and I’m not sure I could roleplay my Hawke into Yes, let’s set it off now!

But if you mean take part in the rebellion in general, then yes, definitely.

I also agree with whoever thinks it was in character even for 100% friendship Anders to go solo. It might be a poor excuse in my Hawke's eyes, but perfectly in-character from Anders' point of view. He knew he was doing a horrible thing and was ready to take responsibility and accept death. Would Hawke do the same?

I completely understand the calls for more freedom of choice but I in fact like the way DA2 went - whether it was intentional or due to rushed development: making Hawke more of a passive spectator that has to deal with many other people’s agendas. I don’t want DA3 to be like that, but DA2 succeeded in making this experience interesting for me.

[Gervaise]

There were various potential plot hooks that led nowhere. One in particular was in Act 3 where you can give support to pro-mage nobles. Now you'd think that at the end this might have resulted in some additional aid or a scene where they express their views over what Anders has done but nothing seemed to come of it. It could have been used as a reason why a mage Hawke was offered the Vicountship at the end but this can only happen if you go pro-templar at the end and support Meredith, thus negating your previous efforts.

It was frustrating that previous actions with regard to the templar/mage situation in Kirkwall had no bearing at all on the final outcome. Even whether Hawke is made Vicount or not is entirely determined by your final decision whether to support Meredith or Orsino. So you can support mages throughout, working against templars at every opportunity, support Orsino at beginning of Act 3 and yet by changing sides at the end, even as a mage you can become Vicount (templars bowing the knee and everything). Yet you can support templars throughout, tell Anders to get lost, support Meredith at the beginning of Act 3 and then because you cannot support the slaughter of the Circle mages for something they didn't do, you are seen as unfit to rule and forced to go on the run and become a rallying cry for rebel mages.
Basically there are a lot of areas where I wish the storyline and plots had been handled differently. Hopefully the designers have learnt from the criticism and won't make the same mistakes in Dragon Age 3.

[Welsh Inferno]

I think the option should be there. But only if say you have Anders up to 100% friendship by that point, any less and its doubtful that he would trust you with it. Even if romanced. Even as a pro mage there is no way I'd do it though and if possible I'd take off his head right where he offers it.

[Koire]

Yes, I would definitely like to have that option.