324 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

Yawn. Call me back when somebody who actually has something to do with BioWare says something.

EA may let you call yourself BioWare, but it doesn't make you BioWare. This guy does not work for BioWare.

Modifié par devSin, 01 mai 2012 - 11:03 .

[Deltoran]

Wow we have such a nice and pleasant community.../sarcasm.

In all seriousness, I'm shocked that Bioware would let anyone even associated with them say crap like that guy did without some sort of PR sign-off first. It's just dropping salt on an open wound. At this point they should really try to avoid irritating the fans more than they already are. But alas, I guess EA/Bioware can't assume direct control of all their employees lol...

[leapingmonkeys]

He seems to forget that he won't be making games if we don't buy them. Our opinion more important than his opinion if his need for our money is greater than our need for his games.

What is ironic is - Bioware keeps talking about the 75 critics who gave great reviews to ME3 - wonder how many of them ever made games? Perhaps their opinions also don't matter?

[The Angry One]

Deltoran wrote...

Wow we have such a nice and pleasant community.../sarcasm.

In all seriousness, I'm shocked that Bioware would let anyone even associated with them say crap like that guy did without some sort of PR sign-off first. It's just dropping salt on an open wound. At this point they should really try to avoid irritating the fans more than they already are. But alas, I guess EA/Bioware can't assume direct control of all their employees lol...

I doubt they have any control over this wind-bag. It's not actually BioWare.

[Deltoran]

The Angry One wrote...

Deltoran wrote...

Wow we have such a nice and pleasant community.../sarcasm.

In all seriousness, I'm shocked that Bioware would let anyone even associated with them say crap like that guy did without some sort of PR sign-off first. It's just dropping salt on an open wound. At this point they should really try to avoid irritating the fans more than they already are. But alas, I guess EA/Bioware can't assume direct control of all their employees lol...

I doubt they have any control over this wind-bag. It's not actually BioWare.

True, I'm just amazed that there wasn't some sort of EA mass email saying 'To All Employees in all Branches and Subsidiaries: Refrain from discussing the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy until the Extended Cut is released, thank you'.

Edit: Unless there was and he and others have just ignored it...

Modifié par Deltoran, 01 mai 2012 - 11:12 .

[In Exile]

John Epler wrote...
Because the details that should inform your purchase aren't things like 'how many man hours is it going to take to implement this feature' or 'what's the cost of outsourcing X art asset versus doing it in-house', but rather 'does this feature do what I want' or 'is this content the sort of thing I'm going to enjoy?' That's what I mean when I talk about things that, as a ocnsumer, you won't necessarily understand.

While we can't know things about game development without being developers, what we can know is what we're told.

So if we hear things like - the ending videos, for reasons of budget, had to use similiar cinematics - and we're told the why part of it (e.g. there was a fixed budget, we had to choose between having the Reaper scene on Rannoch which more players would see etc. etc.) it would be one thing.

Take the ending - if the answer was, look, there was a concern over the leak, we felt this was an appropriate way to go, the fanbase didn't, we'll do our best to address concerns within the context of our budget/resources, that would be one thing.

But if the response is that there are unkown (to us) concerns that can be articulated, and we have to take on faith that these are the Real True Concerns ™, then you have upset customers.

There's a wide gulf between a lack of knowledge and a lack of intelligence, and while most fans of a particular industry might lack knowledge, they (generally) don't lack intelligence.

[Nimrodell]

Erm... I'm not insulted to be honest - don't give a fig for people that actually have such attitude like he had. If he was right, then RPG as a genre wouldn't be endangered species so much. I just hate when people make generalizations both in developers and players camp. But... I'm not insulted by him - not important person to me to actually insult me.

[incinerator950]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

He seems to forget that he won't be making games if we don't buy them. Our opinion more important than his opinion if his need for our money is greater than our need for his games.

What is ironic is - Bioware keeps talking about the 75 critics who gave great reviews to ME3 - wonder how many of them ever made games? Perhaps their opinions also don't matter?

No, they do.  While you might not view it, there are at least two game award critics and three randoms who will look at those reviews.

If you're wondering who has the greatest opinion, its shareholders and stock owners, not random customers. 

[The Angry One]

Deltoran wrote...

Edit: Unless there was and he and others have just ignored it...

From what I've read here and there, this might be the case.
He thinks he's untouchable.

[Paragon Fury]

John Epler wrote...

The Edge wrote...

John Epler wrote...

As with all BioWare staff, his opinion is his own.

I'm of the school of thought that 'if you consume a product, you are welcome to criticize and critique it'. That doesn't mean that, occasionally, you aren't going to necessarily understand something that's rather specialized - but why would you? It's not your job to know about things like production and resource costs. That's the job of the company - all you need to know is 'did I enjoy the product' and 'what parts of the game did I or did I not enjoy'.

I'm just confused when, on one hand, Bioware says "We are listening", yet, from Mr. Barnett, the consumers opinion doesn't matter. How does that work?

Mr. Barnett works at BioWare Mythic, and isn't involved with the Mass Effect franchise.

Anyways. That's all I'm really comfortable saying on the matter.

Do you think that really matters?

Your company's name appears on the product, and the man is associated with your company.  Your company gets credit for the product's success, and the product's failure. Your company takes positive PR from an employee acting well, and the negative PR from an employee taking a nosedive, regardless of the studio he works for.

Companies like UBISOFT Shanghai doesn't get to say "Hey, not our fault, don't hold it against our game" when UBISOFT Montreal screws up; if any branch of a company does poorly, the whole company suffers.

As the PR and accounting departments of Bioware and EA are likely very, very aware of after Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 3 and to a lesser extent Battlefield 3 and SW:TOR.

[IUDEX99]

Well, looks like the txpical problem we often see in big groups (trusts, coorporate groups...which term ever might be the correct one).

The management is bit to far away from the base. Which is - depending on the kind of product they want to sell - either directly the customer or sales representatives, sales clerks etc.

AND, referring to the ending of ME3, there is a lot of constructive critizism out there, made by people who know about writing mechanics and figures, how to implement a plot into a story. I even saw a thread made by a professor of literature here in the forums.
Well, maybe he knows a bit more about succesfull srories and plots than a developer or a creative director. Or at least he knows as much.

Ignoring constructive critizism just because of having a special position in a company and removing the customer's rigth to speak does not sound to be a good idea.
At least for me it does sound like a very bad idea.

[Qutayba]

To suggest that only artists are capable of understanding and critiquing art, whatever that art-form may be, is truly to render art irrelevant. That attitude is frankly what keeps many away from "art" movies and small private galleries, and so a lot of worthwhile production gets lost in obscurity.

Audiences are pretty sophisticated these days. We might not get all the technical production aspects, but we know how to judge narratives, visuals, and other dimensions of the final product. And we might not always have the right vocabulary to express our opinions, but the opinions carry weight anyway.

I grade papers for a living. Often when a student gets a bad grade I will hear "But I worked really hard on it" or "You just don't get what I'm trying to say!" Unfortunately, the primary evidence I have to judge from is the end product. The process the writer went through or what the author meant to say (but didn't) doesn't count much.

You don't have to pander to your audience to make successful art, but if your intention and your result are so different from one another, you have to re-examine your process. You can't just hide behind your good intentions.

[mpgeist]

I can't believe he just compared the experience of making a game to that of going to war. This guy needs a reality check. However, I'm not really insulted because there are a lot of people who think their crap smells better then everyone else's in every profession. It is reaffirming my decision to not support EA products anymore though.

[Jackgord]

I wish everyone would stop freaking out about the ending. Why can't they just see that the first 99% of the series was awesome and the last 5 minutes were a little disappointing?

[DarthSyphilis59]

I'm a consumer, and I vote with my money. That in itself is more valid than any dope's opinion about who's right and who's wrong.

[Mann42]

The Angry One wrote...

What garbage.
It pains me that this arrogant little man represents BioWare's attitude in any fashion.

tangalin wrote...

I DO make games. The ending is still terrible.

Have you not only made but published and marketed it? 
Because apparently if you haven't done all that you aren't allowed an opinion.

I work on games that sell x2+ the amount of any Mass Effect game.

And to me, with my specialized knowledge, I quickly noticed all the tell tale signs that the final mission and sequences were rushed the first time I played it. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is not just bad from a narrative stand point, it's also filled with obvious short-cuts and rush jobs. Making games helps you notice that, actually, so maybe he has a point? 

But honestly, I've been feeling insulted from Bioware since the start of this debacle, but especially after they started repeating 'vocal minority' and 'artistic integrity' while simultaneously using their PR department to coax game journalists into repeatedly beating down critics and detractors with more insults, including 'entitled', which I think was my favorite.

So yeah, I'm feeling really insulted as a customer and fan, but at least the rest of us in the industry can look at ME3 and learn what not to do. So there's that.

Modifié par nexworks, 02 mai 2012 - 12:39 .

[incinerator950]

The Angry One wrote...

Deltoran wrote...

Edit: Unless there was and he and others have just ignored it...

From what I've read here and there, this might be the case.
He thinks he's untouchable.

I really want to read international news of how an English Lady with anger problems came across the pond to beat a man to death for this remark.  Then to find out the result that Bioware will cease supporting the Franchise. 

Modifié par incinerator950, 02 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[Karimloo]

Although he has nothing to do with ME or this branch of BioWare, I can't believe how unprofessional that was.

[BTbuster2010]

Did i just watch a stand up comidian?

[Archer610]

nexworks wrote...

I work on games that sell x2+ the amount of any Mass Effect game.

And to me, with my specialized knowledge, I quickly noticed all the tell tale signs that the final mission and sequences were rushed the first time I played it. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is not just bad from a narrative stand point, it's also filled with obvious short-cuts and rush jobs. Making games helps you notice that, actually, so maybe he has a point? 

But honestly, I've been feeling insulted from Bioware since the start of this debacle, but especially after they started repeating 'vocal minority' and 'artistic integrity' while simultaneously using their PR department to coax game journalists into repeatedly beating down critics and detractors with more insults, including 'entitled', which I think was my favorite.

So yeah, I'm feeling really insulted as a customer and fan, but at least the rest of us in the industry can look at ME3 and learn what not to do. So there's that.

It's a shame that what is arguably the greatest sci-fi video game experience ever is being reduced to a cautionary tale on how not to tell a story or treat your fans

[incinerator950]

Archer610 wrote...

nexworks wrote...

I work on games that sell x2+ the amount of any Mass Effect game.

And to me, with my specialized knowledge, I quickly noticed all the tell tale signs that the final mission and sequences were rushed the first time I played it. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is not just bad from a narrative stand point, it's also filled with obvious short-cuts and rush jobs. Making games helps you notice that, actually, so maybe he has a point? 

But honestly, I've been feeling insulted from Bioware since the start of this debacle, but especially after they started repeating 'vocal minority' and 'artistic integrity' while simultaneously using their PR department to coax game journalists into repeatedly beating down critics and detractors with more insults, including 'entitled', which I think was my favorite.

So yeah, I'm feeling really insulted as a customer and fan, but at least the rest of us in the industry can look at ME3 and learn what not to do. So there's that.

It's a shame that what is arguably the greatest sci-fi video game experience ever is being reduced to a cautionary tale on how not to tell a story or treat your fans

I honestly thought Kotor was better, but that was because I didn't realize Bioware recyled most of its material until ME 2 and DA:O.