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Any one else feel a bit insulted?


324 réponses à ce sujet

#76
The Angry One

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Kreidian wrote...

Even if this is "just" the guy's opinion it doesn't matter, people like this shouldn't be working in the games industry. Unfortunately I've had the misfortune of working with alot of people like this, and they always, ALWAYS end up making the product worse becuase of some stupid reason or another, most of which comes down to their ego is too damn big for their own good.


I can only hope people like you still make up a large amount of developers, because attitudes like this are a blight on the industry.
What are you making games for if not to please gamers? Yeah sure, money, but you make more money when you make your audience happy.
Accusing your own audience of being philestines for being your audience is laughable!

#77
Baronesa

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Ughhh that was horrible...

#78
Vlta

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Man I didn't even bother going past the two min mark, how in the hell does a guy like this get a job, let only be allowed to speak in public? As if I didn't have enough reasons to hate EA...

#79
daecath

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Seryl wrote...

Subject9x wrote...

hey guys, did you know, any movie critic who's never made a movie? yeah their opinion and criticisms don't count.

you can't criticized politicians...until you run for office....

this guys logic is ridiculous.


This guy's logic does hold for some things. It's hard to discuss being in combat with somebody that's never been on a battlefield. Discussing the loss of a loved one IS difficult if you're speaking to somebody that's never had to go through that. For certain things, both people need a common point of reference. He is right for specific changes or experiences in life (ie. death of a loved one, getting married, staying married, getting divorced, raising kids, etc).

Critiquing video games (or anything else for that matter) does not fall into this category though. I don't need to write an orchestral piece of music in order to know that a piece I'm listening to is out of key. I don't need to be an accomplished writer to know that a story I'm reading is terrible. I don't need to be a structural engineer to point out that a building just fell over. In short, he's a pretentious idiot who thinks he's a lot smarter and more Important than he actually is.

This guy is pure arrogance and hubris. I'll give him the exact amount of attention he deserves.

I'll give him a little bit more credit than he probably deserves. He does have a point. Your example that you don't need to be able to write music to know that something is out of key is valid to a point. But you do need an ear that is tuned to hear something like that in order to know there's a problem, and you need some understanding of music in order to communicate what that problem is.

I think his point is both correct and incorrect. Some random play comes up to him and says "The ending of Mass Effect 3 sucks," should be given some amount of credence, but only in as much as saying that you have a dissatisfied customer. It shouldn't indicate anything more than that, because that person's argument doesn't contain anything other than that. However, if a player comes up and says "Can you explain your choice to use a deus ex machina ending; and why the ending is so similar to that of Deus Ex; and why your ending elevated one conflict that was shown as nothing more than a conflict between races, no different than the krogan rebellions or the first contact wars or the human batarian conflict, into an example of 'the created always turning on their creators', even though it was clearly the other way around; and why your previous choices had no impact on the game or the ending other than as a number; and why you would include an ending that uses a technology that transforms energy into complex circuitry and organic tissue, even though there's not a single shred of evidence to show anyone in the galaxy has ever had energy to matter conversion technology; ect." - then that person has clearly given thought to the ending, clearly has done some reasearch and knows about how to construct a plot, knows about the ME universe, and can discuss intelligently the issues with the ending beyond just saying "it sucks!!!!".

In other words, what a person does or doesn't do for a living shouldn't be the criteria for listening to their argument. How well their argument is constructed, and the data behind it should be the criteria.

#80
elitesalt

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a bunch of class acts you've got there, bioware.

#81
Makrys

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It's so sad that we even have to talk about this. Bioware was the king of developers in my mind. Before ME3. Now... I'm not so sure.

Modifié par Makrys, 01 mai 2012 - 05:31 .


#82
Siansonea

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I would be happy if game developers realized two things:

1. We're smarter than you think.

2. Some of us are smarter than YOU.

It's true. But it's not very ego-gratifying, so I don't expect the idea to really catch on.

#83
chuckwells62

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Maybe that appearance was just the opening beta phase for the Bioware Anti-Social Network.

#84
translationninja

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Anyways. That's all I'm really comfortable saying on the matter.


At least you said something! Duly noted and appreciated!!!

See? We're not that difficult after all!!! :)

#85
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Siansonea II wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


Easy. The complete statement is "We are listening, we just don't care."


Yeah but even they aren't as blatant as this guy. I think he's just bitter because Warhammer Online is terrible.


I blame the corporate culture that reinforces the notion that if the customer is unhappy, it's because they're not cool enough to appreciate your work. There is zero humility coming out of BioWare through official channels, zero accountability...

Y U so right?!

#86
Atalanta

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Charming. :sick:

#87
Taboo

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Siansonea II wrote...

I would be happy if game developers realized two things:

1. We're smarter than you think.

2. Some of us are smarter than YOU.

It's true. But it's not very ego-gratifying, so I don't expect the idea to really catch on.


YOU THINK YOUR EDUCATION MATTERS TO EA?

Image IPB

#88
flub3

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This is how companies start to go under. Pride always accompanies the fall. He is literally taking a crap on Economics 101. I don't understand how EA is actually a somewhat successful cooperation with loonies like him involved.

#89
IanPolaris

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John Epler wrote...

As with all BioWare staff, his opinion is his own.

I'm of the school of thought that 'if you consume a product, you are welcome to criticize and critique it'. That doesn't mean that, occasionally, you aren't going to necessarily understand something that's rather specialized - but why would you? It's not your job to know about things like production and resource costs. That's the job of the company - all you need to know is 'did I enjoy the product' and 'what parts of the game did I or did I not enjoy'.


The problem with this is as a member of Bioware (a fact he throws in our face), his opinions and statements DO reflect on Bioware as a whole.

-Polaris

#90
IanPolaris

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flub3 wrote...

This is how companies start to go under. Pride always accompanies the fall. He is literally taking a crap on Economics 101. I don't understand how EA is actually a somewhat successful cooperation with loonies like him involved.


Have you checked out EA's stock price recently.....

-Polaris

#91
mxfox408

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Well if bioware is going to take this kind of approach or allows this, then they deserve to be disolved under EA. Hold the wallet.

#92
Siansonea

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I would be happy if game developers realized two things:

1. We're smarter than you think.

2. Some of us are smarter than YOU.

It's true. But it's not very ego-gratifying, so I don't expect the idea to really catch on.


YOU THINK YOUR EDUCATION MATTERS TO EA?

Image IPB


No, I don't. ;)

If my education mattered, or rather my intellect and knowledge, we wouldn't be where we are, now would we? :whistle:

#93
translationninja

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Pride comes before the fall...just ask SOE...

#94
ArtGerhardt

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eddieoctane wrote...

When did Ricky Gervais get into video game development? Scratch that, Gervais is actually funny.



First thing i noticed XD

#95
Taboo

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Siansonea II wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I would be happy if game developers realized two things:

1. We're smarter than you think.

2. Some of us are smarter than YOU.

It's true. But it's not very ego-gratifying, so I don't expect the idea to really catch on.


YOU THINK YOUR EDUCATION MATTERS TO EA?

Image IPB


No, I don't. ;)

If my education mattered, or rather my intellect and knowledge, we wouldn't be where we are, now would we? :whistle:


My college education. My years of studying film,psychology,ethics and philospophy mean nothing to EA I guess.

Awe. Pure awe.

#96
Skyline45

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John Epler wrote...

Skyline45 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

As with all BioWare staff, his opinion is his own.

I'm of the school of thought that 'if you consume a product, you are welcome to criticize and critique it'. That doesn't mean that, occasionally, you aren't going to necessarily understand something that's rather specialized - but why would you? It's not your job to know about things like production and resource costs. That's the job of the company - all you need to know is 'did I enjoy the product' and 'what parts of the game did I or did I not enjoy'.


If I dont know the details you describe then how can I make an informed purchase as a consumer?


Because the details that should inform your purchase aren't things like 'how many man hours is it going to take to implement this feature' or 'what's the cost of outsourcing X art asset versus doing it in-house', but rather 'does this feature do what I want' or 'is this content the sort of thing I'm going to enjoy?' That's what I mean when I talk about things that, as a ocnsumer, you won't necessarily understand.


So if I find out that a company for example uses outscourcing for their product that not only reduces the cost of said production cost but also reduces the quality of said product it wouldnt influence my decsion in purchasing said product?

#97
Eain

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John Epler wrote...

Skyline45 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

As with all BioWare staff, his opinion is his own.

I'm of the school of thought that 'if you consume a product, you are welcome to criticize and critique it'. That doesn't mean that, occasionally, you aren't going to necessarily understand something that's rather specialized - but why would you? It's not your job to know about things like production and resource costs. That's the job of the company - all you need to know is 'did I enjoy the product' and 'what parts of the game did I or did I not enjoy'.


If I dont know the details you describe then how can I make an informed purchase as a consumer?


Because the details that should inform your purchase aren't things like 'how many man hours is it going to take to implement this feature' or 'what's the cost of outsourcing X art asset versus doing it in-house', but rather 'does this feature do what I want' or 'is this content the sort of thing I'm going to enjoy?' That's what I mean when I talk about things that, as a ocnsumer, you won't necessarily understand.


So what happens when the spokespersons for a game development studio start promising one type of content while giving another, and then try to justify it afterwards with dev-speak that we were never supposed to care about in the first place?

If the question sounds hostile that's because it's an inherently unpleasant question. I can't do much about that. But I still think it deserves asking.

Modifié par Eain, 01 mai 2012 - 05:43 .


#98
CmnDwnWrkn

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Can anyone give a quick summary of what he said?  I can't view the video here.  Thanks.

#99
IanPolaris

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Taboo-XX wrote...

My college education. My years of studying film,psychology,ethics and philospophy mean nothing to EA I guess.

Awe. Pure awe.


(In the Voice of Sovereign)

We are Bioware.  You fumble in our greatness incapable of understanding.  You gripe because you allow it, and you will buy because we DEMAND it.

-Polaris

#100
termokanden

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Siansonea II wrote...

I would be happy if game developers realized two things:

1. We're smarter than you think.

2. Some of us are smarter than YOU.

It's true. But it's not very ego-gratifying, so I don't expect the idea to really catch on.


I got to the 10 minute mark before I got bored. Nothing really insulting so far, although I can see how it can be interpreted that way. But he spends most of the time joking, so I'm not really entirely sure what his point is.

I'm a software developer myself. Not a game developer though. I feel it's important to keep in mind that while you as a developer are definitely going to be smarter when it comes to the technical aspects of your product, that doesn't mean you know the first thing about using it or which features would be good or bad. You are simply not fit to judge it on your own.