154 réponses à ce sujet

[JackofStaves]

 Oh, oh, I want to play, too....

What movies, books, TV series, have successful bitter-sweet endings to you?  

The end of the movies Glory, and Saving Private Ryan.  Ugh, bittersweet.

Whedon's TV series Angel.

Peter Morwood's novel  War Lord.

George Kirk's sacrifice in the rebooted Star Trek

Moulin Rouge

Platoon

The Outlaw Josie Wales

[JackofStaves]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

What movies, books, TV series, have successful bitter-sweet endings to you?

• Mordin's death curing the genophage.  That was a good heroic ending our Shepard's were denied.
• Babylon 5's last episode "Sleeping in Light"
• Return of the King (the movie) the book also ends well in bitter sweet sense. 

I'll think of more 

 

Saving Private Ryan. Best 'bittersweet' ending ive ever seen. You see the sacrifice, and see the reward firsthand,  and the reason for the sacrifice was for the individual character, not the war effort as a whole. The film asks how would you feel risking your life for one man, in the middle of a war - where hundreds/ thousands of men deserve to go home. As you get to know Ryan, and see the reaction of Hank's characters' squad toward him, you get the feeling that 'Yea, this is worth risking my life for.'.  

Just saw this.  yeah.  Try watching this without man-tears...

www.youtube.com/watch

[Subject M]

Taboo-XX wrote...

 I thought it might be nice for once to.....divert my match throwing at this time to focus on something quite a few people have been asking me to do. My message box has been flooded with support and requests for the following in some capacity. I'll be giving on what a bittersweet ending is to me and that includes blue babies..........for some of us.

My favorite people to work with in my job are the happiest ones. The ones that look for hapiness in everything. They are the ones I most enjoy talking to on a set and the ones I enjoy having dinner with afterwords. These are the people that make me come back to the BSN everyday, the people who in the face of everything that has happened still offer a glimpse of hope, something that I don't see in the pit we have right now.

When I think back to relationships that I have had (romantic or otherwise ) I  always enjoy seeing another person change and morph into something entirely different to my initial perception of them. One of the gret strengths of Mass Effect to me was the ability to see how Shepard affected his LI. Now some people really  like these characters (sometimes I wonder about some of them.......) and have always perceived some sort of resolution to the story arc. What I did not see in the end of my playthrough was a resolution on much of anything but the more I thought about it I had no resolution my Shepard's LI either. There wasn't anything in the end there was just a pit.

A bittersweet ending to me would be one where Shepard survives, and reunites with the person he cares about most and then proceeds to help rebuild. Billions of people are dead. Thousands more will be and in the end the galaxy is essentially left in a state of ruin. I see no reason for every outcome to result in some sort of suicide on Shepard's part or in best case scenario a four second scene of him breathing in the rubble. Reflections upon major themes is a key component in art and I don't see any reflection upon much of anything right now.

This  is literally the last thing I ever see of Miranda and the last thing that is ever done about her relationship with Shepard. She wants to tell Shepard something at the very end, something she hasn't before and she can't bring herself to do it..........yet. At what point did Bioware think I wouldn't want to see a resolution to this? It just defies logic.

I'll leave you with a quote, one from a man I deeply respect.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is only bearable through love" - Carl Sagan

I defiantly agree with the notion that Shepard surviving and joining up with his or her LI and team on the smoldering ruins of Earth should be a achievable ending. It would be very bittersweet if the cost of surviving was long preparations and these preparations also came with a higher cost in lives. This is very important.

I think it is very important to understand or at least be informed of that "bittersweet" is something that is not soley confined to the genre of what sometimes is refered to "American sentimentally" andd "melodrama". 

Modifié par Subject M, 02 mai 2012 - 02:57 .

[Kilshrek]

Taboo-XX wrote...

A bittersweet ending to me would be one where Shepard survives, and reunites with the person he cares about most and then proceeds to help rebuild. Billions of people are dead. Thousands more will be and in the end the galaxy is essentially left in a state of ruin. I see no reason for every outcome to result in some sort of suicide on Shepard's part or in best case scenario a four second scene of him breathing in the rubble. Reflections upon major themes is a key component in art and I don't see any reflection upon much of anything right now.

No disagreement here, OP. It's sad that Bioware felt the need to abandon the maxim of the series at the end, choice. And then to declare that all the endings were in some way or form, victorious and uplifting. I suppose we weren't watching the same things. The themes shifted so hard at the end I felt the train jump, metaphorically speaking. And meekly surrendering to the notions of some supposedly higher/older/superior being? Shepard had no issue fighting the Reapers tooth and nail, but the Reaper's master is suddenly treated with more than respect, with supreme deference in fact.

Pretty meh ending, one I suspect I'll give up caring about before they push their 'clarification' out the door. Sadly, like others have said, if you have to explain a joke, it ain't funny no more. Similar logic applies to this.

[Kunari801]

JackofStaves wrote...

 Oh, oh, I want to play, too.... (snip)  

I thougth of another:  Serenity  The ending left you hopeful for their future yet sad that you lost two beloved crew from Firefly.  I'll never forgive FOX for killing Firefly series (see how long I keep a grudge BW). 

[Chuvvy]

Red Dead's ending.

[Taboo]

parrmi22 wrote...

I love the Bob Dylan reference.

Heh, I use song titles to summarize the sections or topics I create.

I KNOW Bob Dylan wouldn't like these endings. I know that for sure.

New topic coming..........shortly.

I'm going to be telling you about how you have indeed had your intelligence insulted and what you've been presented with is not bold or really even that new.

[JackofStaves]

Kunari801 wrote...

JackofStaves wrote...

 Oh, oh, I want to play, too.... (snip)  

I thougth of another:  Serenity  The ending left you hopeful for their future yet sad that you lost two beloved crew from Firefly.  I'll never forgive FOX for killing Firefly series (see how long I keep a grudge BW). 

Yeah, thank Gawd Syfy replays it and the series.  That was pretty harsh....

[Yorkston9152]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

What movies, books, TV series, have successful bitter-sweet endings to you?

• Mordin's death curing the genophage.  That was a good heroic ending our Shepard's were denied.
• Babylon 5's last episode "Sleeping in Light"
• Return of the King (the movie) the book also ends well in bitter sweet sense. 

I'll think of more 

 

Saving Private Ryan. Best 'bittersweet' ending ive ever seen. You see the sacrifice, and see the reward firsthand,  and the reason for the sacrifice was for the individual character, not the war effort as a whole. The film asks how would you feel risking your life for one man, in the middle of a war - where hundreds/ thousands of men deserve to go home. As you get to know Ryan, and see the reaction of Hank's characters' squad toward him, you get the feeling that 'Yea, this is worth risking my life for.'.  

The connection is made to one individual character; ME3 i think tried to make shepered have some sort of connection to the war as a whole, rather than emphasize the personal connections we already had with characters in the story. We had our versions of "private Ryan" if you will, but we didnt get the chance to save them. 

The reason why stuff like Saving private ryan have good bittersweet ending is you know that the main person you have been rooting for did not die in vain, nor did anything they do fall short of worthwhile. Its more then just closure in terms of a literary sense, its what every person on this planet wants to know before they die. No one wants to know they are marching off to their deaths, watching their friends get slaughtered and having to endure hell and back just to have all of that mean nothing. The deaths of every one of your squad mates in ME3 is followed up with a sense of closure, or at least a reason why they did that

Mordin - if you let him go up top, he dies knowing he redid the mistake of causing uncountable suffering on a speices. He's smiling knowning he got the job done as the lab blows up

Thane - dies knowing he prevented an assassination of a galactic leader. Dies a hero and a warrior

Legion- dies giving his people freedom of thought and uplifting them to the level of organic life. If you save both the quarians and the geth, hes pretty much Geth jesus.

And even take the crew that done die "nobel" deaths. Wrex falls on his swords *via shepard*and ali jumps to her death knowing she allowed the destruction of her people. They died because they where a part of something that doom'd their race. As some one stated, every one who dies other then shepard died for a pretty good reason. In stead of going out in a blaze of glory, shepard goes out like a chump....

[Ecrulis]

nitefyre410 wrote...

MissNet wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

So very true, OP.
You don't need additional semi-philosophic symbolism to make the end of a great war profound and meaningful. It already is.
You don't need to obliterate civilization to evoke a sense of sadness.
You don't need people on a hostile uninhabited planet to show a new start.

All you need is some sense and a bit of writing skills. 

 

Exactly, if they had any  skill they   would not have had to go over board like that...

Yea, this is just beyond overboard, it is not bittersweet its dark, depressing and makes all the work I did in the previous games seem pointless. 

I want ONE ending where my shep can see Liara again, she deserves that much, hell make it hard to get Ill play the crap out of MP to get enough galactic readiness for I promise

Please? for the blue children 

BTW: as depressed as I feel about the ending for my character I can't even imagine how annoyed people who romanced thane or jacob are 


EDIT: honestly atm the only way I can bring myself to replay the games is to head cannon everything after the push to the beam.

Modifié par Ecrulis, 02 mai 2012 - 03:22 .

[Yorkston9152]

Kunari801 wrote...

JackofStaves wrote...

 Oh, oh, I want to play, too.... (snip)  

I thougth of another:  Serenity  The ending left you hopeful for their future yet sad that you lost two beloved crew from Firefly.  I'll never forgive FOX for killing Firefly series (see how long I keep a grudge BW). 

Never saw Firefly before serenity, but at the end with wash? the first time i watched it i dont think i let out a bigger gasp of "No!" over a sereis i had no prior connection to.

[ReXspec]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

Modifié par ReXspec, 02 mai 2012 - 03:25 .

[Ecrulis]

ReXspec wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

That is beautiful and now I have more stuff for head cannon, only in mine shep wakes up while Liara is holding her. Call me sappy but i don't think shep has to die for the ending to be good 

EDIT: I can picture it now camera slowly backs up from a closeup of LI face the song in the background is the same as the one from the love scene before cerberus base, LI sheds a tear for shep, the more quiet part of the song continues as the camera focuses on shep. Louder part of the song kicks in as shep wakes up and embraces his/her LI.

I dunno not a director or writer just something quick that poped into my head 

Modifié par Ecrulis, 02 mai 2012 - 03:42 .

[Kunari801]

Ecrulis wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

That is beautiful and now I have more stuff for head cannon, only in mine shep wakes up while Liara is holding her. Call me sappy but i don't think shep has to die for the ending to be good 

EDIT: I can picture it now camera slowly backs up from a closeup of LI face the song in the background is the same as the one from the love scene before cerberus base, LI sheds a tear for shep, the more quiet part of the song continues as the camera focuses on shep. Louder part of the song kicks in as shep wakes up and embraces his/her LI.

I dunno not a director or writer just something quick that poped into my head    

  That'd work for me. 

[d1ta]

Ecrulis wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

That is beautiful and now I have more stuff for head cannon, only in mine shep wakes up while Liara is holding her. Call me sappy but i don't think shep has to die for the ending to be good 

EDIT: I can picture it now camera slowly backs up from a closeup of LI face the song in the background is the same as the one from the love scene before cerberus base, LI sheds a tear for shep, the more quiet part of the song continues as the camera focuses on shep. Louder part of the song kicks in as shep wakes up and embraces his/her LI.

I dunno not a director or writer just something quick that poped into my head 

:crying: you don't know just how much I wanted this to happen.. I do hope that they will add at least one ending in the EC where Shep can be reunited with his/her LI and crew. My Shep wants her Kaidan back :crying:

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Taboo-XX wrote...

parrmi22 wrote...

I love the Bob Dylan reference.

Heh, I use song titles to summarize the sections or topics I create.

I KNOW Bob Dylan wouldn't like these endings. I know that for sure.

New topic coming..........shortly.

I'm going to be telling you about how you have indeed had your intelligence insulted and what you've been presented with is not bold or really even that new.

I think that an early-80's "Saved"/"Shot of Love"-era Dylan would like the endings.

[ReXspec]

Also, this:  Awesome

It's a little rough around the edges, but it's something.  It restored some lost hope I had for the ME franchise.



EDIT:  Fixed the link. XD

Modifié par ReXspec, 02 mai 2012 - 04:15 .

[Taboo]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

parrmi22 wrote...

I love the Bob Dylan reference.

Heh, I use song titles to summarize the sections or topics I create.

I KNOW Bob Dylan wouldn't like these endings. I know that for sure.

New topic coming..........shortly.

I'm going to be telling you about how you have indeed had your intelligence insulted and what you've been presented with is not bold or really even that new.

I think that an early-80's "Saved"/"Shot of Love"-era Dylan would like the endings.

The man who wrote Jokerman wouldn't have.

That reminds me..........

[Subject M]

Ecrulis wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

That is beautiful and now I have more stuff for head cannon, only in mine shep wakes up while Liara is holding her. Call me sappy but i don't think shep has to die for the ending to be good 

EDIT: I can picture it now camera slowly backs up from a closeup of LI face the song in the background is the same as the one from the love scene before cerberus base, LI sheds a tear for shep, the more quiet part of the song continues as the camera focuses on shep. Louder part of the song kicks in as shep wakes up and embraces his/her LI.

I dunno not a director or writer just something quick that poped into my head 

That picture is just glorified dispair if you ask me.
There is nothing "sweet" about somone loosing what they love or someone loosing everything they are just to convey a dramatic effect. 

Modifié par Subject M, 02 mai 2012 - 04:22 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Subject M wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

That is beautiful and now I have more stuff for head cannon, only in mine shep wakes up while Liara is holding her. Call me sappy but i don't think shep has to die for the ending to be good 

EDIT: I can picture it now camera slowly backs up from a closeup of LI face the song in the background is the same as the one from the love scene before cerberus base, LI sheds a tear for shep, the more quiet part of the song continues as the camera focuses on shep. Louder part of the song kicks in as shep wakes up and embraces his/her LI.

I dunno not a director or writer just something quick that poped into my head 

That picture is just glorified dispair if you ask me.
There is nothing "sweet" about somone loosing what they love or someone loosing everything they are just to convey a dramatic effect. 

After witnessing what comes before it I'm not feeling any despair. 

[Taboo]

Subject M wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11812550#11812550 This is a bittersweet ending.

That is beautiful and now I have more stuff for head cannon, only in mine shep wakes up while Liara is holding her. Call me sappy but i don't think shep has to die for the ending to be good 

EDIT: I can picture it now camera slowly backs up from a closeup of LI face the song in the background is the same as the one from the love scene before cerberus base, LI sheds a tear for shep, the more quiet part of the song continues as the camera focuses on shep. Louder part of the song kicks in as shep wakes up and embraces his/her LI.

I dunno not a director or writer just something quick that poped into my head 

That picture is just glorified dispair if you ask me.
There is nothing "sweet" about somone loosing what they love or someone loosing everything they are just to convey a dramatic effect. 

TELL THAT TO BIOWARE.

[Hadeedak]

Almost every Diane Wynne Jones book has contained a heroic sacrifice that made me cry.

For good endings where the hero dies in vain, try any given Arthurian interpretation. Oldy but goody -- Try to stay dry-eyed through "The Once and Future King".

[Iakus]

I agree with every word of the OP

The last words my Shepard said to his LI (Ash) was "Then let's get it done, and go home" I so wanted to see that happen.

Modifié par iakus, 02 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[Taboo]

iakus wrote...

I agree with every word of the OP

The last words my Shepard said to his LI was "Then let's get it done, and go home" I so wanted to see that happen.

THIS HURTS ME BIOWARE.

[Iakus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

iakus wrote...

I agree with every word of the OP

The last words my Shepard said to his LI was "Then let's get it done, and go home" I so wanted to see that happen.

THIS HURTS ME BIOWARE.

www.youtube.com/watch 

Modifié par iakus, 02 mai 2012 - 04:46 .