336 réponses à ce sujet

[poundoffleshaa]

Saren's and the illusive man's plans come from the Reaper's and by extension the Reaper King AI, who funnily enough also is the one who offers your ending choices. So how does that make Shepard any different than the other 2 all three accepted reaper born solutions.

[Sepharih]

poundoffleshaa wrote...

Saren's and the illusive man's plans come from the Reaper's and by extension the Reaper King AI, who funnily enough also is the one who offers your ending choices. So how does that make Shepard any different than the other 2 all three accepted reaper born solutions.

This is why indoctrination theory has taken such hold.  Outside of the writers just loosing their mind (which unfortunately is what probably happend), It's the only logical explination for why the game pulls such a complete 180 at the end.

[Balek-Vriege]

Saren didn't have an "vision"l that was actually real or viable at the time. He was an indoctrinated Spectre that was kept from being 100% husk so he could still perform as a Spectre. Synthesis, Control and Destroy are Crucible functions, not Reaper/Catalyst ones.

Again the Reapers made Saren think what they wanted him to think. That he was some pinnacle of evolution (actually a super quasi-husk) and that his actions would save the Turian people from the Reapers (they would just get reaped like everyone else). What was really going on was Saren's indoctrination and using his connections, skills and resources to get him and an army of Geth to the Citadel controls.

What happens in the end of Synthesis is the true hybridization of man and machine. Is it possible Saren was brain washed to think he was such? Yes. Was he actually the embodiment of Synthesis? Not even close. He was little more than a mechanical puppet with limited free will.

[TheWarofArt]

I'm not trying to prove a point, just curious: why does Synthesis to even be available require a minimum of 2800 EMS and you see EDI+Joker hold one another if it's considered the worst ending of the 3?

[GreenDragon37]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
There is something VERY wrong with imposing the ideal of a joining between flesh and machine on every living thing without their knowledge or consent.
THAT is what Saren wanted, and THAT is what synthesis does.

It's for their own good.

I come into your home, beat you sensless then proceed to steal your Xbox/PS3/PC, TV, and other other personal items and say, "This stuff rots your brain and other people can use this stuff. It's for your own good." How would you feel about that? Using your logic I can do whatever I want and it will be justifiable and you will like it. 

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 02 mai 2012 - 03:02 .

[Candoo]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

The Cycle is broke, the galaxy is saved, no race was extincted, all organic life in the galaxy has been improved.
So, we win.

Yup, we win

Modifié par Candoo, 02 mai 2012 - 03:20 .

[MisterJB]

GreenDragon37 wrote...
I come into your home, beat you sensless then proceed to steal your Xbox/PS3/PC, TV, and other other personal items and say, "This stuff rots your brain and other people can use this stuff. It's for your own good." How would you feel about that? Using your logic I can do whatever I want and it will be justifiable and you will like it. 

A better example that fits with Synthesis would be you coming into my home and giving me a medicine that stops any brain rot. In such a case, any refusal from me would just be idiotic.
Synthesis isn't taking anything away from the species of the galaxy. It's adding to them.

[Ticonderoga117]

MisterJB wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...
I come into your home, beat you sensless then proceed to steal your Xbox/PS3/PC, TV, and other other personal items and say, "This stuff rots your brain and other people can use this stuff. It's for your own good." How would you feel about that? Using your logic I can do whatever I want and it will be justifiable and you will like it. 

A better example that fits with Synthesis would be you coming into my home and giving me a medicine that stops any brain rot. In such a case, any refusal from me would just be idiotic.
Synthesis isn't taking anything away from the species of the galaxy. It's adding to them.

Synthesis isn't that handy, as it does, well, nothing really when the Reapers are concerned. Nor does it really add anything that is beneficial. It just changes your DNA to merge it with *choke* Synthetic DNA *nearly vomits* which for the most part (as we're shown) add some funny green lines to people. Atleast Saren had some rockin' cybernetics.

However, it still breaks down when you FORCE someone to have ANYTHING no matter how "beneficial" it may seem to you when it changes what you are.

[d-boy15]

Adam Jensen had answer for synthasis...

not that I tell it's bad choice, just point something.

[Sprite Knight]

"Why don't you jump into this beam here and join with the human reaper I'm making." -Catalyst

"There will be peace."

[Candoo]

MisterJB wrote...

A better example that fits with Synthesis would be you coming into my home and giving me a medicine that stops any brain rot. In such a case, any refusal from me would just be idiotic.

Synthesis isn't taking anything away from the species of the galaxy. It's adding to them.

How is it adding, if you, would no longer be YOU with Synthesis? A person is WHO they are, based on their personality characteristics, whether those be bad or good. Many refer to it as a soul. Your personality makes you the person you are. By accepting synthesis, you are in essence giving up your individuality, your personality, the things that make you, you. What a boring, muldane life it would be if everyone was the same.

But OH !! We could live a boring, muldane life for eternity, our very being, being nothing more than a software program.

[MisterJB]

As I've said many, many times before, there is no basis to claim that Synthesis removes any diversity or individuality from the galaxy.
Humans share the same biochemistry with all forms of life on Earth but diversity exists.

[kglaser]

From what Saren says during his final monologue, I am very tempted to concur with OP's statement.
But the utter disparity between "game Saren" and "novel Saren" still sticks in my craw.
(for the record, "novel Saren" is so ridiculously evil, I think I'm in love)

[Oldbones2]

Lizardviking wrote...

They did not show Saren choosing synthesis because it would most likely confuse newcomers.

Or they forgot Saren's character.

They didn't show it because it's supposed to be the perfect choice.  The one that Shepard would almost certainly choose.  Thus they left it empty for Shepard to fill.


God I hate that specific part of the ending, nearly as much as I hate Star Child.

[PsyrenY]

Synthesis isn't Saren's vision, and it's not Padok's either.

It's Mordin's.

"Mordin sent me a nicely crafted message. It seems he recalls our conversations about the Salarian equivalent of Transhumans.

Transhumans have some of their brain's abilities, such as memory, supplemented or entirely replaced by cybernetics. Legal definitions vary from planet to planet; the Salarians embrace the concept. Humans have diverse and contentious opinions."


(Ain't that the truth, EDI. )


Shepard: "Do my implants make me a transhuman?"
EDI: "That would be telling."
Shepard: "What?"
EDI: "I'm sorry. That was a joke. You are fully human. Cerberus extensively reconstructed you, but your brain functions are organic." 

Implying that, you don't become a transhuman until your brain functions are a hybrid of organic and synthetic.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 02 mai 2012 - 05:52 .

[Zhuinden]

MisterJB wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...
I come into your home, beat you sensless then proceed to steal your Xbox/PS3/PC, TV, and other other personal items and say, "This stuff rots your brain and other people can use this stuff. It's for your own good." How would you feel about that? Using your logic I can do whatever I want and it will be justifiable and you will like it. 

A better example that fits with Synthesis would be you coming into my home and giving me a medicine that stops any brain rot. In such a case, any refusal from me would just be idiotic.
Synthesis isn't taking anything away from the species of the galaxy. It's adding to them.

Actually, an even better example would be shoving that medicine down your throat forcefully and not asking whether you actually want it or not. And considering the great deal of information, that would happen without informing you about the side-effects of it, even though it might cause liver damage, but who cares - at least your brain rot stops, right?


Forcing your views down the throat of others merely because you think it is right does not necessarily make it right. There is a chance they don't want it, they don't need it. Why is this so hard to understand?
As I've said before, following this logic, even the Reapers' intention is justified.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

They did not show Saren choosing synthesis because it would most likely confuse newcomers.

Or they forgot Saren's character.

They didn't show it because it's supposed to be the perfect choice.  The one that Shepard would almost certainly choose.  Thus they left it empty for Shepard to fill.


God I hate that specific part of the ending, nearly as much as I hate Star Child.

Indeed. I said on page 2 how much I hate the way they sugar coat the synthesis ending.

[PsyrenY]

Zhuinden wrote...


Actually, an even better example would be shoving that medicine down your throat forcefully and not asking whether you actually want it or not. And considering the great deal of information, that would happen without informing you about the side-effects of it, even though it might cause liver damage, but who cares - at least your brain rot stops, right?

If your brain is rotting, that seems like a pretty pressing concern. Stopping to worry about side-effects is foolish.

Zhuinden wrote... 

Forcing your views down the throat of others merely because you think it is right does not necessarily make it right. There is a chance they don't want it, they don't need it. Why is this so hard to understand?
As I've said before, following this logic, even the Reapers' intention is justified.

They may not want it, but the other options are even less palatable.

[d-boy15]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

They did not show Saren choosing synthesis because it would most likely confuse newcomers.

Or they forgot Saren's character.

They didn't show it because it's supposed to be the perfect choice.  The one that Shepard would almost certainly choose.  Thus they left it empty for Shepard to fill.


God I hate that specific part of the ending, nearly as much as I hate Star Child.

I think they didn't show it because the one who present it stand glowing right in front of you. listen what
starchild said, I can tell he really try to convince me to choose green light.

[PsyrenY]

d-boy15 wrote...

I think they didn't show it because the one who present it stand glowing right in front of you. listen what
starchild said, I can tell he really try to convince me to choose green light.

Of course he did. He agrees with it.

But the choice is still yours.

[The Night Mammoth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Yes, obviously. It's a representation of in-universe knowledge. 

And authoritative characters are not?

Hackett's the highest-ranking officer in the entire Navy. Ditto Victus for the Turians. You knew that, right? They are rather clearly both mouthpieces for the authors.

Characters are representatives of in-universe perceptions, opinions, They are fallible, evidently, everything they say that isn't a fact of the universe is coloured with bias and subjectivity.
 

[PensCeltsFan]

john_sheparrd wrote...

still hope they remove the starchild and replace it with harbringer

I agree. I dont hate the starchild, but id rather see Harby, id like to see him actully included in the game as an antagonist rather than a puppet.

OT. Id of liked to see Saren choosing synthesis, but i dont feel Sarens idea was the same as the starchilds. Just similar.

Modifié par PensCeltsFan, 02 mai 2012 - 11:29 .

[Reign Tsumiraki]

I like the idea of Synthesis. I just hate how it was implemented.

The idea of forcing the co-operation of synthetics and organics is wrong. It should be a natural process. Like with the Geth and the Quarians. Sooner or later, they will get to the point where they will be not two species, but one. Quarians with heavy cybernetic augmentations, with an organic brain joined with a AI. And all of it voluntary, and part of a natural process, based on co-operation and mutual interest. The Salarians are also doing this to an extent, modifying their mental capabilities with tech.

Synthesis cannot end well, because it doesn't follow this pattern. It forces it on everyone, without their input, and without their consent.