336 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

yup, saren loves synthesis, he's eviiiklllll

[The Angry One]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

For Saren, the genophage cure was a means to an end.

Synthesis was that end.

Man, it's so easy to make arguments when you forget what you were talking about.

For (Renegade) Shepard, the genophage cure was a means to an end.

Defeating the Reapers was that end.

Man, it's so easy to herpa derp derp.

And this is where you've sailed the argument boat over the niagra falls.
I did not say that because Saren was using a means to an end.
I said it because that end was synthesis. I can't believe I have to explain this.

MisterJB wrote...

Saren and Jack Harper were both being controlled by the Reapers. They could not achieve anything.
Thus, it falls to Shepard.

Shepard was controlled by the Catalyst. Either way, Reapers win. So just let Saren kill you and begin the "final evolution of life" a little earlier.

Modifié par The Angry One, 01 mai 2012 - 04:34 .

[matthewmi]

It's for their own good.

Next time someone chooses to do something that affects you that you hate remember your quote.  I can justify any decision by using your logic.

[M920CAIN]

Saren is laughing his ass off at the Shepards who chose the green ending, that's fo' sure'...

[Sepharih]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Saren cured the genophage too, obviously doing so makes you evil.

Man, snap judgments are so much easier when we can strip context out of everything.

What context?  You mean what they shoehorned in at the eleventh hour which contradicted everything up till that point?

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Saren cured the genophage too, obviously doing so makes you evil.

Man, snap judgments are so much easier when we can strip context out of everything.

You continue to display a lack of inference so severe I liteally sit back in awe of what you have to say.

I'm going to have to start recording them.

This is almost as bad as the time you suggested that if people didn't like having their DNA synthesized they could have it reversed.

[twisty77]

In a word, yes. Saren wanted Synthesis, The Illusive Man wanted control. Which is why that with all other discrepancies aside, destroy is the only viable ending.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
Saren logic, right there.

So? It's the truth.

Then even if we're confined to these 3 asinine options, how about not taking the one where the Reapers win?
Don't come back with "oh you can choose not to." Fine, whatever. But if you do choose synthesis, you are following Saren's ideal. That simple.

The Reapers don't win regardless of the option you take. The Cycle is broken, the Citadel is either destroyed or under Shepard's control. It is over.

There is nothing wrong with Saren's ideal except for the whole "subservience" thing but a union of flesh and steel is good. The problem was that Saren was being lied to by Sovereign.
The Reapers weren't going to spare humanity, they would just turn us into a Reaper. The Crucible introduces an element that the Reapers could not have accounted for and allows us to achieve Synthesis on our terms.

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...

And this is where you've sailed the argument boat over the niagra falls.
I did not say that because Saren was using a means to an end.
I said it because that end was synthesis. I can't believe I have to explain this.

Your argument is, as usual, "Synthesis is bad because Saren liked it." Which has nothing to do with Synthesis' own merits, again as usual.

Saren's vision was not possible because there was no Crucible to change the Reapers' thinking at the time. Cooperation with them without it is futile.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
Shepard was controlled by the Catalyst.

No, he wasn't.

Either way, Reapers win.

No, they don't.

[Mr.House]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Shepard was controlled by the Catalyst.

No, he wasn't.

Either way, Reapers win.

No, they don't.

You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

[MisterJB]

Mr.House wrote...
You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

The Cycle is broke, the galaxy is saved, no race was extincted, all organic life in the galaxy has been improved.
So, we win.

[GLR-0053]

Reapers are victorious hooray!!! I for one welcome our new reaper overlords. <3

Modifié par GLR-0053, 01 mai 2012 - 04:42 .

[PsyrenY]

Mr.House wrote...
You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

It's not his plan, it's the Crucible's. He tells you this himself.

You don't have to believe him of course, in which case all of the endings are suspect, not just the green one.

[Bad King]

Synthesis is rather different to what Saren had in mind (or what Sovereign wanted him to have in mind).

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

The Cycle is broke, the galaxy is saved, no race was extincted, all organic life in the galaxy has been improved.
So, we win.

At the cost of the way the universe functions.........and at the cost of what makes a race a race. You have completely new species. There are no longer humans or Asari, Krogan etc.

No one has the right to make that descision regardless of what "permission" they were given. It's like a shady business deal. I go in expecting one thing and come out with my entire genetic code being rewritten.

[alsonamedbort]

The Angry One wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

For Saren, the genophage cure was a means to an end.

Synthesis was that end.

Man, it's so easy to make arguments when you forget what you were talking about.

For (Renegade) Shepard, the genophage cure was a means to an end.

Defeating the Reapers was that end.

Man, it's so easy to herpa derp derp.

And this is where you've sailed the argument boat over the niagra falls.
I did not say that because Saren was using a means to an end.
I said it because that end was synthesis. I can't believe I have to explain this.

MisterJB wrote...

Saren and Jack Harper were both being controlled by the Reapers. They could not achieve anything.
Thus, it falls to Shepard.

Shepard was controlled by the Catalyst. Either way, Reapers win. So just let Saren kill you and begin the "final evolution of life" a little earlier.

That may have been Saren's "ideal," but it would never have happened under his watch.  He was indoctrinated, and just saying what the Reapers wanted him to say in order to get him to convince others to join him.  Had Saren succeeded in his plans, the cycle would've continued, and everyone would've been wiped out.  No "synthesis" would've been achieved.

[The Edge]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And this is where you've sailed the argument boat over the niagra falls.
I did not say that because Saren was using a means to an end.
I said it because that end was synthesis. I can't believe I have to explain this.

Your argument is, as usual, "Synthesis is bad because Saren liked it." Which has nothing to do with Synthesis' own merits, again as usual.

Saren's vision was not possible because there was no Crucible to change the Reapers' thinking at the time. Cooperation with them without it is futile.

Well, Saren aside, Synthesis is bad because you are forcing the entire galaxy to merge to become synthetic/organic hybrids.

What stands out the most however is that, through dialogue with other characters, you get a sense that DIVERSITY is what makes fighting the Reapers even marginally possible. Javik even says that his cycle failed because they weren't diverse. By picking Synthesis, you are (from what we know so far) basically ending this diversity, which runs counter to everything built up over the entire game.

[richard_rider]

MisterJB wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

The Cycle is broke, the galaxy is saved, no race was extincted, all organic life in the galaxy has been improved.
So, we win.

It wasn't improved, all organic life has been changed into something inorganic, a "new life form"...thus invalidating the catalyst's own vision of preserving organic life.

PS Yes synthesis is Saren's vision, no matter how sugar coated it is, it's still essentially the same thing, a combination of organic and synthetic into something new.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
At the cost of the way the universe functions.........and at the cost of what makes a race a race. You have completely new species. There are no longer humans or Asari, Krogan etc.

No one has the right to make that descision regardless of what "permission" they were given. It's like a shady business deal. I go in expecting one thing and come out with my entire genetic code being rewritten.

Better species, better genetic code. The barriers we set between species caused so many wars. If we can stop looking at each other and seeing a human or a turian and start seeing just another sentient being, it's an improvement.
So, who cares who made that decision?

[Bad King]

richard_rider wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
You accept the leader of the Reapers logic and new plan, so yes the Reapers win.

The Cycle is broke, the galaxy is saved, no race was extincted, all organic life in the galaxy has been improved.
So, we win.

It wasn't improved, all organic life has been changed into something inorganic, a "new life form"...thus invalidating the catalyst's own vision of preserving organic life.

PS Yes synthesis is Saren's vision, no matter how sugar coated it is, it's still essentially the same thing, a combination of organic and synthetic into something new.

But was Saren really something new? By the end of the game he was a fully synthetic frogman controlled by Sovereign. None of the organic Saren was left due to the bullet that penetrated his brain.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
At the cost of the way the universe functions.........and at the cost of what makes a race a race. You have completely new species. There are no longer humans or Asari, Krogan etc.

No one has the right to make that descision regardless of what "permission" they were given. It's like a shady business deal. I go in expecting one thing and come out with my entire genetic code being rewritten.

Better species, better genetic code. The barriers we set between species caused so many wars. If we can stop looking at each other and seeing a human or a turian and start seeing just another sentient being, it's an improvement.
So, who cares who made that decision?

Do you........do you understand the political undertones? Have you ever studied...........anything? Do you honestly believe that all problems are going to go away if we recognize each other as sentient? Are you serious? I do that know. I recognize all the races as sentient, only a select few seem to not see it that way. Bioware seems to be blisfully unaware of this.

I think quite a few people would care if ONE person made a descision to rewrite the way the galaxy functions.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 mai 2012 - 04:52 .

[adneate]

MisterJB wrote...
If we can stop looking at each other and seeing a human or a turian and start seeing just another sentient being, it's an improvement.

Why would synthesis do that? They still look different and that alone is enough reason to see a pronounced difference. Unless of course Synthesis alters the mind of those it affects and destroys their free will in which case it's not an improvement, simply trading the a wild jungle for a prison.

[PsyrenY]

The Edge wrote...

Well, Saren aside, Synthesis is bad because you are forcing the entire galaxy to merge to become synthetic/organic hybrids.

What stands out the most however is that, through dialogue with other characters, you get a sense that DIVERSITY is what makes fighting the Reapers even marginally possible. Javik even says that his cycle failed because they weren't diverse. By picking Synthesis, you are (from what we know so far) basically ending this diversity, which runs counter to everything built up over the entire game.

You're wrong - you can have the same DNA and still be totally diverse. Humans all have the same DNA, and we even share it with chimpanzees. Are we all the same? Are we chimpanzees?

[kaztas]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
At the cost of the way the universe functions.........and at the cost of what makes a race a race. You have completely new species. There are no longer humans or Asari, Krogan etc.

No one has the right to make that descision regardless of what "permission" they were given. It's like a shady business deal. I go in expecting one thing and come out with my entire genetic code being rewritten.

Better species, better genetic code. The barriers we set between species caused so many wars. If we can stop looking at each other and seeing a human or a turian and start seeing just another sentient being, it's an improvement.
So, who cares who made that decision?

Wow...the sad part is you don't see the very nature of evil in this.... 


The funny thing is you think that because we are the now all the same, we won't fight. Are you serious? The same "races" fought each other all the time for land, territory, power, etc. You think that just because we now have machine is us we stop fighting? If anything we become more powerful and even more deadly.