265 réponses à ce sujet

[sth128]

Considering that Eve was made from Adam's genetic material, you better hope the whole "she ate an apple then had lots of sex with her genetic clone" thing was a myth.

Also, talking snake... You seriously saying the Garden of Eden bit should be taken literally?

[Tom Lehrer]

Catroi wrote...

It's said in the ME1 codex that abrahamic religions collapsed after the discovery of other species, because they were unable to explain their existence

We are told some relegions had an issue accepting the existence of alien life. This does not mean their collaspe.

The Catholic Church publicly acknowledged the possibility of alien life a while ago and even said they would be welcomed into the Church.

[AlexXIV]

sth128 wrote...

Considering that Eve was made from Adam's genetic material, you better hope the whole "she ate an apple then had lots of sex with her genetic clone" thing was a myth.

Also, talking snake... You seriously saying the Garden of Eden bit should be taken literally?

I have seen weirder things than talking snakes in ME.

[The Angry One]

Doctor-Chalmers wrote...

The entire Assassin's Creed franchise is based around the idea that every religion humanity venerates is the result of 
http://t3.gstatic.co...gQmU7C39VmiiJOz

Anybody who is so touchy as to actually become upset about an alien in Mass Effect passingly referring to Eve as a mythological* character is possibly busy burning down Ubisoft because the protagonist and Pope Alexander VI have a fistfight in the Vatican while saying "religion? lol fail!"

(*FYI, "fictional" is only part of one definition of the word "mythology" - plenty of people and dictionaries use it without any fictional or non-fictional connotations.) 

Heh, I've seen that Pope fight. It's hilarious, I might play that one of these days when I stop being terrible at that kind of game.

But Grandia II beats them all.
Basic rundown of Grandia II: God is dead. The devil killed him. The Pope worships the devil, and wants to merge with it (synthesis lol) to become the new God. Also, God was really a scientist who used an ascension machine.. on the plus side, he could make spaceships out of thin air! 

Awesome game. It had Jennifer Hale in it and everything.

[AlexXIV]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Catroi wrote...

It's said in the ME1 codex that abrahamic religions collapsed after the discovery of other species, because they were unable to explain their existence

We are told some relegions had an issue accepting the existence of alien life. This does not mean their collaspe.

The Catholic Church publicly acknowledged the possibility of alien life a while ago and even said they would be welcomed into the Church.

Lol that's the first time I hear this. And I honeslty can't believe it either. They still don't let women be priests you know.

[Robhuzz]

ckriley wrote...

Demon Velsper wrote...

Exactly what is the problem with referring to mythology as mythology..?

Nothing.  But you know how so many groups out there will pounce on things like this in video games.

Sadly true.

I also feel the fear for controversy is what caused BioWare to remove that scene with Ashley in which she asked Shepard what he saw/experienced after he died.

[The Protheans]

AlexXIV wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

What is there to talk about, in the future everyone will think silly beliefs are apart of mythology.

I am pretty sure alot of religious people will disagree with that. Not saying you're wrong. But that's the point of the OP. Disproving religion in a sci-fi franchise is probably a good way to get religious fanatics riled up against you.

If you said that about the greeks I'm sure they would of been annoyed too back in their time.

[RoyalGambit]

Robhuzz wrote...

ckriley wrote...

Demon Velsper wrote...

Exactly what is the problem with referring to mythology as mythology..?

Nothing.  But you know how so many groups out there will pounce on things like this in video games.

Sadly true.

I also feel the fear for controversy is what caused BioWare to remove that scene with Ashley in which she asked Shepard what he saw/experienced after he died.

Which is a damn shame. Really strong scene. Director's cut would be appreciated. 

[The Angry One]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Catroi wrote...

It's said in the ME1 codex that abrahamic religions collapsed after the discovery of other species, because they were unable to explain their existence

We are told some relegions had an issue accepting the existence of alien life. This does not mean their collaspe.

The Catholic Church publicly acknowledged the possibility of alien life a while ago and even said they would be welcomed into the Church.

And yet they still won't endorse contraception.
Great to know where your priorities are, guys.

[General User]

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

Aye.  Many stories from the Bible are meant to instruct and illustrate larger truths.  IE: myths.

Modifié par General User, 01 mai 2012 - 08:45 .

[AlexXIV]

The Protheans wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

What is there to talk about, in the future everyone will think silly beliefs are apart of mythology.

I am pretty sure alot of religious people will disagree with that. Not saying you're wrong. But that's the point of the OP. Disproving religion in a sci-fi franchise is probably a good way to get religious fanatics riled up against you.

If you said that about the greeks I'm sure they would of been annoyed too back in their time.

Yes, but we don't live in the future yet.

[AlexXIV]

General User wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

Aye.  Many stories from the Bible are meant to instruct and illustrate larger truths.  IE: myths.

Well there is still this thing with the Virgin Birth ... but I guess I am now on a good way to get this thread locked. Not that it shouldn't be locked anyhow.

[Kushan101]

There is also a "Mitochondrial Eve" who lived about 200,000 years ago - and all humans (from all, without being unfair, "major" ethnic races) can trace a lineage back to this single female ancestor.

http://science.howst...le-ancestor.htm

Don't worry, it isn't religion disguised as science - just a interesting thing I thought I'd throw in.

In the context of the game, the bible itself has been seriously debunked as a myth. I guess that the sudden discovery of alien races who are not only more developed than us and could fairly easily destroy us: proving we are not the most important thing in the universe after all, but also the fact that they don't have religious beliefs that could coincide with ours would ultimately destroy the notion that religious instruction came from an all powerful God who created the universe and everything in it. Otherwise, wouldnt they also have the same beliefs?
I think the whole discovery of us being "uplifted" to small degrees by the Protheans would shake pretty much anyones faith too.

Its why Ashley's belief was made enough of a deal that she had to mention it after you gained some of her trust. Her language implies that very few people continue to believe in god, even that it is potentially looked down upon.

I can't help myself: notice there is no religion in ME? Notice how humans tend to get on well with each other? there's no racism between them anymore? Yeah, me too 

Modifié par Kushan101, 01 mai 2012 - 08:50 .

[The Angry One]

Now if they wanted to be controversial, they would've set Priority: Earth in Rome where you fight through Vatican City and battle a huskified Pope.

Modifié par The Angry One, 01 mai 2012 - 08:50 .

[Siansonea]

General User wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

Aye.  Many stories from the Bible are meant to instruct and illustrate larger truths.  IE: myths.

Oh yes, larger truths, it is interesting how the Bible presents them and how they're so often misinterpreted. The Adam and Eve story is quite fun in that regard. Especially when the deity's first act upon creating his mindless thralls was to threaten them with death, a threat which turns out to be empty and A LIE. Not to mention the fact that being the first two humans ever, they don't even know what "death" is. And they have no frame of reference for obedience either, not knowing the difference between Good and Evil. Talking Snake told Eve that she wouldn't die if she ate Knowledge Fruit, and sure enough, SHE DIDN'T. Only AFTER they ate the fruit did A&E realize the severity of their situation. Angry, jealous (and yet somehow "perfect") Yahweh on the warpath. So, the "truth" in this story came from Talking Snake, NOT Yahweh, who set his two mindless noobs up to fail. Good times! At least the book is honest about what a horrific tyrant and genocidal monster its central deity is.

[AlexXIV]

Kushan101 wrote...

There is also a "Mitochondrial Eve" who lived about 200,000 years ago - and all humans (from all, without being unfair, "major" ethnic races) can trace a lineage back to this single female ancestor.

http://science.howst...le-ancestor.htm

Don't worry, it isn't religion disguised as science - just a interesting thing I thought I'd throw in.

In the context of the game, the bible itself has been seriously debunked as a myth. I guess that the sudden discovery of alien races who are not only more developed than us and could fairly easily destroy us: proving we are not the most important thing in the universe after all, but also the fact that they don't have religious beliefs that could coincide with ours would ultimately destroy the notion that religious instruction came from an all powerful God who created the universe and everything in it. Otherwise, wouldnt they also have the same beliefs?
I think the whole discovery of us being "uplifted" to small degrees by the Protheans would shake pretty much anyones faith too.

Its why Ashley's belief was made enough of a deal that she had to mention it after you gained some of her trust. Her language implies that very few people continue to believe in god, even that it is potentially looked down upon.

I can't help myself: notice there is no religion in ME? Notice how humans tend to get on well with each other? there's no racism between them anymore? Yeah, me too 

You can't tell me they can track down genes 200,000 years. I won't believe that.

[Mahrac]

The Angry One wrote...

Now if they wanted to be controversial, they would've set Priority: Earth in Rome where you fight through Vatican City and battle a huskified Pope.

but that would have been awesome. and a better ending

[AlexXIV]

Mahrac wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Now if they wanted to be controversial, they would've set Priority: Earth in Rome where you fight through Vatican City and battle a huskified Pope.

but that would have been awesome. and a better ending

I don't know, the pope is just an old man. Not like Asari Matriarchs.

[MakeMineMako]

Kushan101 wrote...

There is also a "Mitochondrial Eve" who lived about 200,000 years ago - and all humans (from all, without being unfair, "major" ethnic races) can trace a lineage back to this single female ancestor.

http://science.howst...le-ancestor.htm

Don't worry, it isn't religion disguised as science - just a interesting thing I thought I'd throw in.

In the context of the game, the bible itself has been seriously debunked as a myth. I guess that the sudden discovery of alien races who are not only more developed than us and could fairly easily destroy us: proving we are not the most important thing in the universe after all, but also the fact that they don't have religious beliefs that could coincide with ours would ultimately destroy the notion that religious instruction came from an all powerful God who created the universe and everything in it. Otherwise, wouldnt they also have the same beliefs?
I think the whole discovery of us being "uplifted" to small degrees by the Protheans would shake pretty much anyones faith too.

Its why Ashley's belief was made enough of a deal that she had to mention it after you gained some of her trust. Her language implies that very few people continue to believe in god, even that it is potentially looked down upon.

I can't help myself: notice there is no religion in ME? Notice how humans tend to get on well with each other? there's no racism between them anymore? Yeah, me too 

The fact that established religion still exists on Earth disputes that notion.

And relations between the various religious, racial, and ethnic groups in less developed nations is unknown. The fact that Earth has merc companies based there, and the nations still have militaries, implies that some conflict still takes place

[frylock23]

Kushan101 wrote...

There is also a "Mitochondrial Eve" who lived about 200,000 years ago - and all humans (from all, without being unfair, "major" ethnic races) can trace a lineage back to this single female ancestor.

http://science.howst...le-ancestor.htm

Don't worry, it isn't religion disguised as science - just a interesting thing I thought I'd throw in.

In the context of the game, the bible itself has been seriously debunked as a myth. I guess that the sudden discovery of alien races who are not only more developed than us and could fairly easily destroy us: proving we are not the most important thing in the universe after all, but also the fact that they don't have religious beliefs that could coincide with ours would ultimately destroy the notion that religious instruction came from an all powerful God who created the universe and everything in it. Otherwise, wouldnt they also have the same beliefs?
I think the whole discovery of us being "uplifted" to small degrees by the Protheans would shake pretty much anyones faith too.

Its why Ashley's belief was made enough of a deal that she had to mention it after you gained some of her trust. Her language implies that very few people continue to believe in god, even that it is potentially looked down upon.

I can't help myself: notice there is no religion in ME? Notice how humans tend to get on well with each other? there's no racism between them anymore? Yeah, me too 

I don't see why. If you believe that there is a God and he set everything, and I do mean everything in motion, then he set that in motion, too. It all came from somewhere basically.

And if you think that religion causes racism, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Modifié par frylock23, 01 mai 2012 - 08:54 .

[Psychlonus]

RoyalGambit wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

The Abrahamic religions "scrambled to explain" does not equal "collapsed"

They are still around, in a greatly diminished role. As it has been pointed out, both Ashley and (dependant on choice) Commander Shepard can be Christians or at the minimal Diests.

I don't think he ment that those religions disappeared. Just that they diminished in relevance and popularity as you said. 

The non-religious are far from being immune to revisionism concerning their beliefs when new discoveries are found. Every major scientific model throughout the history of science has been interpreted by the non-religious to have atheistic implications--even when said model is the exact opposite of a previous model that they said had atheistic implications...

[Bomma72]

As a Christian so I will give my perspective, I am not even remotely offended by this. It is a fictional story even if it wasn't that is Mordin's beliefs why should I care. If the game were implying all Christians are terrorists then I might be offended, depending on how it was handled. Anyway It's realistic that there would be many beliefs in the galaxy, also Ashley did not strike me a Christian in anyway she is a Deist, meaning she believes in a higher power, personally I like that there is some religion in the game, not because I am religious or whatever but because it gives the game depth. I also like that the game tries to represent every type of person.

Also just because fox got some crazy person to go on TV and espouse nonsense about ME1 doesn't mean that most Christians think like this. This is a very narrow view of them, not being offended or trying to be controversial, just saying. Most of us don't go around looking for things to be offended by. That woman was dumb, and Fox was doing what the media does ginning up controversy.

I am much more offended with what the ending is forcing me to do. But really it is only a game.

[General User]

The Angry One wrote...

ckriley wrote...

Demon Velsper wrote...

Exactly what is the problem with referring to mythology as mythology..?

Nothing.  But you know how so many groups out there will pounce on things like this in video games.

Attempting to defend the Old Testament as historical fact is like running around a nuclear bomb and smashing it with a hammer.
It's opening a huge can of worms that few are ready to deal with, so they don't.

I'd say it's more like using a nuclear bomb to clear a tree stump.  It's not really what it was built for in the first place.  And you just cause more problems for everybody in the attempt.

Modifié par General User, 01 mai 2012 - 08:59 .

[Abreu Road]

MakeMineMako wrote...

Kushan101 wrote...

There is also a "Mitochondrial Eve" who lived about 200,000 years ago - and all humans (from all, without being unfair, "major" ethnic races) can trace a lineage back to this single female ancestor.

http://science.howst...le-ancestor.htm

Don't worry, it isn't religion disguised as science - just a interesting thing I thought I'd throw in.

In the context of the game, the bible itself has been seriously debunked as a myth. I guess that the sudden discovery of alien races who are not only more developed than us and could fairly easily destroy us: proving we are not the most important thing in the universe after all, but also the fact that they don't have religious beliefs that could coincide with ours would ultimately destroy the notion that religious instruction came from an all powerful God who created the universe and everything in it. Otherwise, wouldnt they also have the same beliefs?
I think the whole discovery of us being "uplifted" to small degrees by the Protheans would shake pretty much anyones faith too.

Its why Ashley's belief was made enough of a deal that she had to mention it after you gained some of her trust. Her language implies that very few people continue to believe in god, even that it is potentially looked down upon.

I can't help myself: notice there is no religion in ME? Notice how humans tend to get on well with each other? there's no racism between them anymore? Yeah, me too 

The fact that established religion still exists on Earth disputes that notion.

And relations between the various religious, racial, and ethnic groups in less developed nations is unknown. The fact that Earth has merc companies based there, and the nations still have militaries, implies that some conflict still takes place

Yeah, I remember something about a civil war in the US when reading the codex in Kasumi's Stolen Memory. I think this entry shows up after we find Lady Liberty's Head in the bad guy's vault.