265 réponses à ce sujet

[Zuka999]

TJX2045 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

As if people needed to be given excuse to get even more butthurt.

More like "As if we need another reason to divide people on a controversial subject when people are already divided on another."

I have friends of different faiths and spiritual backgrounds, and it's opened me up to accepting people have different beliefs than I do.  We're all just trying to understand the meaning of life, we just do it in different ways.  I'm not going to bash someone because they see things differently than I do, including Atheists, but anyone who bashes me, including other Christians who don't believe what I do (I'm more spiritual), offend me more than someone saying that they don't believe what I do.

I don't have a problem as long as people don't insult what I believe, and I expect people to respect that the same way I respect their beliefs.

That's the long, more appropriate way of saying exactly what I was getting at. These things are non-issues. People who get insulted by other people not believing what they believe need to grow thicker skin. You can't go from birth to death and never experience dissonance, that would just be shameful.

I'm an atheist, but I'm still interested in where we all come from and where we all go - even if the science implies its nothing more than atoms reconfiguring themselves based on physical laws. I'm okay with that. I also respect that the Christian guy across the room asks those same questions of himself and personally believes a different thing.

But when you hear someone make light of it and you get all hurt in the butt about it, well.. Just get over it. That's life. No one living in a free society has any obligation to give a damn about other people's beliefs or take **** from people who get sand in their vaginas at the first sign of contrary opinion.

[MakeMineMako]

Merengues 1945 wrote...

Catroi wrote...

It's said in the ME1 codex that abrahamic religions collapsed after the discovery of other species, because they were unable to explain their existence

this... also if can recall, many of the still followers of those faiths were zealots and very xenophobic people like Ashley.

And well... there's more pressing issues than fighting if in the future people will still believe on baby jesus or not.. Serioulsy I don't care at all.

*Sigh*

Time to settle this for those who don't actually read the Codex and other official sources:


Cerberus Daily News-8/10/2010 (All news reports take place in 2185)
Holy Month of Ramadan Begins on Earth at Sunset

“Sunset tonight marks the beginning of the human holy month of Ramadan
on Earth. Until the next moon, over 2.7 billion Earth humans and 2
million in the colonies will abstain from eating, drinking, or having
sexual intercourse during daylight hours. Giving to the poor or feeding
them while breaking fast in the evening is encouraged, along with
praying and reading from a holy book. Humans in the colonies will base
their fasting timetable off of visual sighting of the largest crescent
moon; planets with no moons or extreme photoperiods follow Earth's
timetable. Those who are travelling more than 64km are exempt from
fasting but must make up the days later with fasting or buying the poor
an evening meal -- humans in non-geosynchronous orbit are considered to
be travelling at all times.”




Cerberus Daily News-3/20/2010


Human Holiday of Passover Celebrated

“Today marks the human holiday of Passover, commemorating the liberation
of slaves through the power of an omnipotent deity. Humans of the
Jewish religion celebrate with a special meal of unleavened bread, wine,
bitter herbs, and the meat of a young herd animal. During the meal an
ancestral story is recited about the flight from their oppressors and
the miracles that saved the Jewish people and gave them law. Songs,
prayers, and a ritual reading of questions designed to educate the young
round out the ceremony. Traditions differ on whether or not other
species are allowed at the meal: one rule says the presence of non-Jews
makes the meal impure, but another rule says that all who are hungry
should come and eat. The second view has dominated in recent years, and
small businesses have sprung up that specialize in making
dextro-amino-acid-based food for turian and quarian participants.”




Cerberus Daily News-11/05/2010



Hindu Holiday of Diwali Begins
“The human Hindu holiday of Diwali begins tonight, a festival of lights
celebrating renewal, a new financial year, and the triumph of good over
evil. For five days, celebrants hang traditional candle lamps called
"diyas" outside their houses to guide good fortune to them or celebrate
the gods' victory over darkness. On starships where open flames consume
needed oxygen, diyas are typically replaced with an LED display outside
the practitioner's cabin. Diwali is also a time for exchanging gifts,
eating sweet foods, bathing with oil, and lighting firecrackers. Though
often celebrated secularly, the holiday is not without its spiritual
side - observant humans use the days to contemplate the inner light, or
"soul", that transcends the physical form.”






Cerberus Daily News-12/25/2010


Humans Celebrate the Holiday of Christmas
“Today marks the human holiday of Christmas, celebrating the birth of
the semi-divine teacher-prophet Jesus in Earth's Christian tradition.
The holiday is commemorated through omnipresent music in public areas,
lavish gift-giving to relatives and loved ones, the cutting and
decorating of trees placed indoors, and the hanging of flexible footgear
near fire pits. While all of the above practices are secular, more
religious humans attend a prayer service either on the night before or
during this day. The holiday spirit is traditionally shared with others
by wishing for "peace on Earth and good will towards men." Once
considered universal, that greeting has since been replaced by "peace
and good will towards all creation."”




Shadow Broker Dossiers/Cerberus:


2171 - Pope Clement XVI assassinated via rosary beads coated with sodium
nonacetate and dimethyl sulfoxide. Death attributed to age and heart
failure. Replacement, Pope Leo XIV, has eschatological beliefs in-line
with militarizing humanity; forgiving attitude to salarians re:
genophage proves useful for strategic alliances against turians.




Cerberus Daily News-8/04/2010


Asari Diamond "The Mother's Star" Blessed by Earth's Pope


“The Mother's Star, the largest natural gemstone-cut diamond in the
galaxy, was blessed by Earth's Pope Leo XIV today. The Star weighs in at
2,105 carats and was found on the asari colony world of Sanves. The
diamond is undergoing a galactic tour to be blessed by major religious
leaders of Council space. Tomorrow it will be taken back to Thessia for
the final leg of its journey. After an incantation by asari atamna (a
collection of high priestesses), it will be placed in the crown jewel
collection of the republic of Ulee.”




Codex-Human:


In 2148, human explorers on Mars uncovered a long-ruined Prothean
observation post, with a surviving data cache that proved Protheans had
studied Cro-Magnon humans millennia ago. While religions tried to
assimilate this discovery into their doctrine, a global rush began to
decipher the petabytes of data from the outpost. Discovering information
on a mass relay orbiting Pluto, explorers managed to open the Charon Relay and discovered it led to Arcturus. With the help of the fledgling Systems Alliance, humans expanded to other systems, opening any mass relays they could find.





Codex-Systems Alliance:


The impact was profound in all areas of human culture, but nowhere more
so than religion. New beliefs sprang up overnight such as the
Interventionary Evolutionists, who zealously proclaimed the discovery as
proof that all human history had been directed and controlled by alien forces.
Even established religions struggled to explain extraterrestrial life.
Some tried to incorporate this new-found knowledge into their dogma,
some remained silent, while a few tried to stubbornly deny the evidence
found on Mars.





As you can see, religion amongst Humanity is still going strong. It hasn't "collasped". Nor has it been marginalized with the discovery are alien life. It has adapted. So much for the religion-free utopia of the future.

In fact, some have found practicioners among other races......




Codex: Turian



Turians enjoy absolute freedom of religion and can practice whatever
appeals to them so long as it does not impede anyone's ability to
perform their duties. There are many practitioners of the asari siarist
philosophy. Since opening dialog with the human Systems Alliance, some
turians have embraced Confucianism and Zen Buddhism.

[frylock23]

TJX2045 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

As if people needed to be given excuse to get even more butthurt.

More like "As if we need another reason to divide people on a controversial subject when people are already divided on another."

I have friends of different faiths and spiritual backgrounds, and it's opened me up to accepting people have different beliefs than I do.  We're all just trying to understand the meaning of life, we just do it in different ways.  I'm not going to bash someone because they see things differently than I do, including Atheists, but anyone who bashes me, including other Christians who don't believe what I do (I'm more spiritual), offend me more than someone saying that they don't believe what I do.

I don't have a problem as long as people don't insult what I believe, and I expect people to respect that the same way I respect their beliefs.

This.

It bothers me not in the slightest that others think or believe differently than I do. We all have our respective paths in life to walk. I do find discussions on differeing beliefs to be interesting so long as they stay adult and no one gets insulting or angry when I happen to disagree or express my own views which may run counter to theirs.

But please extend me the simple courtesy of respecting that I've arrived at my beliefs only after thinking about them and, yes, challenging them and having them challenged by others a great deal. I don't live in an echo chamber.

[The Milky Waver]

 If rebellions over religious references in games were always made, then we wouldn't have games like Assassin's Creed, now would we?

[sistersafetypin]

MakeMineMako wrote...

Codex: Turian



Turians enjoy absolute freedom of religion and can practice whatever
appeals to them so long as it does not impede anyone's ability to
perform their duties. There are many practitioners of the asari siarist
philosophy. Since opening dialog with the human Systems Alliance, some
turians have embraced Confucianism and Zen Buddhism.

Turians as Buddhists? That's interesting. I also think the Asari's outlook on life is very Buddhist in nature.

[tomcplotts]

Makes no difference if people agree with me or not. Of course, if they don't, I'llhave to stone them, but other than that, it's all good.

[sistersafetypin]

The Milky Waver wrote...

 If rebellions over religious references in games were always made, then we wouldn't have games like Assassin's Creed, now would we?

Dead Space has the best cause for rebellians among a religious sect. But since that sect is Scientology... lol

[frylock23]

The Milky Waver wrote...

 If rebellions over religious references in games were always made, then we wouldn't have games like Assassin's Creed, now would we?

I always figured the ones most likely to be absolutely scandalized over most video games aren't likely to be playing video games in the first place.

The gay issue wasn't a religious one exactly because let's be honest, you could wind up having gay sex with Liara entirely by accident which is what was the biggest objection. There is a reason why the term ninjamance was coined. Most parents would have problems with their kids having accidental sex, but having it be gay sex was sort of the icing on the cake that being a bit more taboo for a lot of parents.

Modifié par frylock23, 01 mai 2012 - 10:37 .

[MakeMineMako]

sistersafetypin wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

Codex: Turian



Turians enjoy absolute freedom of religion and can practice whatever
appeals to them so long as it does not impede anyone's ability to
perform their duties. There are many practitioners of the asari siarist
philosophy. Since opening dialog with the human Systems Alliance, some
turians have embraced Confucianism and Zen Buddhism.

Turians as Buddhists? That's interesting. I also think the Asari's outlook on life is very Buddhist in nature.

I agree. Siari has much in common with Buddhism.

[TJX2045]

Zuka999 wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

As if people needed to be given excuse to get even more butthurt.

More like "As if we need another reason to divide people on a controversial subject when people are already divided on another."

I have friends of different faiths and spiritual backgrounds, and it's opened me up to accepting people have different beliefs than I do.  We're all just trying to understand the meaning of life, we just do it in different ways.  I'm not going to bash someone because they see things differently than I do, including Atheists, but anyone who bashes me, including other Christians who don't believe what I do (I'm more spiritual), offend me more than someone saying that they don't believe what I do.

I don't have a problem as long as people don't insult what I believe, and I expect people to respect that the same way I respect their beliefs.

That's the long, more appropriate way of saying exactly what I was getting at. These things are non-issues. People who get insulted by other people not believing what they believe need to grow thicker skin. You can't go from birth to death and never experience dissonance, that would just be shameful.

I'm an atheist, but I'm still interested in where we all come from and where we all go - even if the science implies its nothing more than atoms reconfiguring themselves based on physical laws. I'm okay with that. I also respect that the Christian guy across the room asks those same questions of himself and personally believes a different thing.

But when you hear someone make light of it and you get all hurt in the butt about it, well.. Just get over it. That's life. No one living in a free society has any obligation to give a damn about other people's beliefs or take **** from people who get sand in their vaginas at the first sign of contrary opinion.

EXACTLY.  I agree with you.  People make jokes on different religions.  It doesn't bother me.  Some of them I find funny because it's not the joke on the religion itself, but the so called "religious" people.

Someone I know who is atheist pretty much has the same reasoning as you and we're best friends despite our differences.  We could care less.

[frylock23]

TJX2045 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

As if people needed to be given excuse to get even more butthurt.

More like "As if we need another reason to divide people on a controversial subject when people are already divided on another."

I have friends of different faiths and spiritual backgrounds, and it's opened me up to accepting people have different beliefs than I do.  We're all just trying to understand the meaning of life, we just do it in different ways.  I'm not going to bash someone because they see things differently than I do, including Atheists, but anyone who bashes me, including other Christians who don't believe what I do (I'm more spiritual), offend me more than someone saying that they don't believe what I do.

I don't have a problem as long as people don't insult what I believe, and I expect people to respect that the same way I respect their beliefs.

That's the long, more appropriate way of saying exactly what I was getting at. These things are non-issues. People who get insulted by other people not believing what they believe need to grow thicker skin. You can't go from birth to death and never experience dissonance, that would just be shameful.

I'm an atheist, but I'm still interested in where we all come from and where we all go - even if the science implies its nothing more than atoms reconfiguring themselves based on physical laws. I'm okay with that. I also respect that the Christian guy across the room asks those same questions of himself and personally believes a different thing.

But when you hear someone make light of it and you get all hurt in the butt about it, well.. Just get over it. That's life. No one living in a free society has any obligation to give a damn about other people's beliefs or take **** from people who get sand in their vaginas at the first sign of contrary opinion.

EXACTLY.  I agree with you.  People make jokes on different religions.  It doesn't bother me.  Some of them I find funny because it's not the joke on the religion itself, but the so called "religious" people.

Someone I know who is atheist pretty much has the same reasoning as you and we're best friends despite our differences.  We could care less.

Interestingly enough, my husband is a scientist, and it's exactly that that has strengthened his faith over the years. Everything he's learned as a scientist has only taught how much there is yet to learn, or more accurately, how much we still just don't know and don't understand. How very many questions there are to be answered. And while he knows there is a very good chance that science can explain a lot of it given enough time, he also knows that there is a lot of stuff that we absolutely know is true today, that we will also discover is absolutely not true tomorrow, or next year, or next decade.

And, while science is very good at explaining how things work in the world around us, it doesn't do the best job at explaining why all the time. So, there is still a very real place for faith and belief and I think the ME Universe reflects that. with all they don't know. 

[Calibrations Expert]

Mordin creates the name Eve because he studied almost every religion in the galaxy, feeling guilty after his working enhancing the Genophage. This is established in ME2.

[zninjazzero]

The term "myth", like the the term "legend", does not define a story as being fiction. It is implied, but not an inherent part of a myth.

[TheLostGenius]

To an Alien species, and to some human beings, religion IS mythology.

Praise Zeus and Athena!!

[Element Zero]

I have not read the last six pages, and have no idea what has and hasn't been discussed therein.

In regard to the OP:

Religious people are often required to leave their beliefs at the door when delving into fiction set in the "real world". Mass Effect is set in our future as it "could be", were the Reapers, Protheans, etc, real. If someone is too sensitive to put temporarily compartmentalize his religious beliefs for the sake of a fictional story, that story likely is not the story for him.

[Ariq]

Qutayba wrote...

Well, calling it a mythology doesn't necessarily deny any truth claims. Myth encapsulates ideas and values in the form of a narrative. You could believe that the Adam and Eve story is true, and you could still call it mythology. It doesn't have to have a negative connotation.

This deserves applause and repetition.

[Eterna]

That's because Christianity is a mythology.

[Kajan451]

ckriley wrote...

So in other words, he explicitly refers to Judaism, Christianity and Islam as mythologies, since Eve is a prominent figure in all three religions.

Whats wrong about that?

http://dictionary.re...rowse/mythology

my·thol·o·gy   [mi-thol-uh-jee] Show IPA
noun, plural my·thol·o·gies.
1.
a body of myths, as that of a particular people or that relating to a particular person: Greek mythology.
2.
myths collectively.
3.
the science or study of myths.
4.
a set of stories, traditions, or beliefs associated with a particular group or the history of an event, arising naturally or deliberately fostered: the Fascist mythology of the interwar years.

ckriley wrote...


Anyone else notice what Mordin said and kind of pause?

Not me. Eve is a figure of Mythology, just like Shiva, Zeus, Ra or Frigg. Just because there are more people around to believe Eve than there are around to believe in Zeus it should be okay to call the one thing Mythology and the other thing what? A fact?

I am sorry to say, but there is about as much proof for Eve as there is for Ra or the Jewish Deity. Its why its called believing and not knowing.

[Psychlonus]

Catroi wrote...

It's said in the ME1 codex that abrahamic religions collapsed after the discovery of other species, because they were unable to explain their existence

The codex is missing a piece of this. Actually, Islam's cosmology is a little different from Judeo-Christian. I believe Carl Sagan in his book The Dragons of Eden mentioned that Islam doesn't have the same issues with other worlds. that the other two Abrahamic relgions do. I've also heard it mentioned a few times by other scientists.

[katamuro]

its a mythology as all other types because A) its a tale about something fantastic and not explainable with modern science
B)it has been told as a story for a very long time before it was written down.

[Uber Rod]

ckriley wrote...

Sorry if this has already been posted or discussed, but I noticed something interesting that Mordin said that I was kind of surprised didn't cause a bit of a stir, especially seeing as how there's so many parents groups and other organizations heavily monitoring video games today.

It was during a conversation with Mordin on the Normandy after you retrieved Eve from Sur'kesh.  When Shepard hears Mordin call her that name, he says, "Eve?"  To which Mordin replies that since they were on a human vessel, he felt it was appropriate to give her a name from human mythology.  So in other words, he explicitly refers to Judaism, Christianity and Islam as mythologies, since Eve is a prominent figure in all three religions.

Now, I don't have any problems with that, personally.  And I'm not here to discuss whether you believe it is a mythology or not since that will only get this thread locked, but this is the first time in the trilogy I've heard religion specifically called that.  And there was no controversy.

By the way, to keep this thread from devolving into a political or religious debate, it should be mentioned that various characters refer to all the different races in the galaxy as having their own myths.  So what Mordin said was totally in keeping with that.  But I was just curious that this didn't cause controversy.

Anyone else notice what Mordin said and kind of pause?

Didn't give me pause at all. 

Well, it is mythology. No point in calling it anything else. But then I'm Pagan and am used to Christians dismissing my beliefs as "mythology" yet have a problem calling the exact same thing from their side mythology. 

[BiancoAngelo7]

lol why are people still talking about this?

Oh noez religion referenced in game aaaaaaahhhh run aaawaaaaay

[StElmo]

AlexXIV wrote...

Doctor-Chalmers wrote...

StElmo wrote...
If he mentioned Thor god of thunder, would anyone be offended?

No.

I would.

Look around you.
How many frost giants do you see?
None, because Thor vanquished them for you. 

And what do you do with the free time that you now get to enjoy because you don't need to fend off frost giants every evening? You mock him on the BSN... 

Shame on you, Elmo.
Shame on you.

Not just Frost Giants actually. He helped the Averngers to get rid of some Super Villains too.

LAWL.

proves my point, though if you chose to believe in mythology as though it is fact, your free to do so! but just because you are offended at something, doesn't mean your right.

To be quite fair, I thought the Roman and Greek gods were jerks, but then, so is the abrahamic god. Satan killed ten people, god killed 1.4 million - I wonder who is the real jerk?

Seriously, if I'm going to applaud BioWare for anything in ME3 it's for not pandering to soccer moms and dads who haven't read a real book or done any real education ever in their lives.!

[Psychlonus]

katamuro wrote...

its a mythology as all other types because A) its a tale about something fantastic and not explainable with modern science....

You mean not explanable yet? Some things are explanable. For instance, the area that researchers believe the story of Sodom and Gemorrah took place is an area where there are large subterranean natural gas and sulfur deposits. They say that an extremely large scale earthquake would have and still could ignite the natural gas and sulfur and rain down fire and brimstone (sulfur).

That sets a clear line of demarcation between the Bilbe story of Sodom and Gemorrah and Atlas "holding up" the Earth...or whatever Greek mythology sais...

[KingNothing125]

Oh Sky Cake, why are you so delicious?