265 réponses à ce sujet

[TJX2045]

StElmo wrote...


You can only ever have proof FOR something, you cannot have proof FOR nothing. It is illogical.

Prove to me that invisible unicorns don't fly our skies? Go on, proove it? You can't, there is no evidence for the unicorns so it is reasonable not to believe in them, just like any religious mythology.

I only believe in things with evidence, before that I am unsure, and thereofre have no opinion. Non belief is not a belief.

Simple logic.

Belief - a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing.

You put your trust and confidence in evidence, which are things.

The bold contradicts the italicized.

Regardless, I think everyone agrees that no one cares enough about the fact that Bakara is named "Eve" as symbolism.  Almost everyone knows the reference of Adam and Eve as a story.

I was afraid we wouldn't be able to have a thread based on religious symbolism or comments without people derailing into fairy tales and dogma arguments.

Modifié par TJX2045, 02 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[hoodaticus]

Kajan451 wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

When it comes to matters on a person's faith and it's validity, it is a matter of opinion. Not fact.

When you call a person's faith "mythology", inferring that they are just stories/fairy tales, you are expressing your personal opinion on the subject.

No, actually your not expressing your personal opinion, you are using the right termiology. Every Religion has their own theories and most of our countries do carry the freedom of faith as their core values. As such its not only right but also just to apply the same "lable" to a religion whatever your personal opinion on the subject would be.

The Bible is containing the Jewish (and by extention of it the Islamic and Christian) Mythology. Labeling said Mythology as anything other than Mythology is personal opinion and personal believe. From a Hindu point of view those stories are mythology just like from a Jewish or Christian point of view the stories of the Hindu Religion is regarded as Mythology by them.

Calling it Mythology is the proper use of the word and lable for what those stories are. Its not personal opinion to call them that, its personal opinion NOT to call them that.

In your opinion.

[SuperVulcan]

I believe in God and it didn't bother me.

[Auralius Carolus]

RoyalGambit wrote...

MassiveEffects wrote...

RoyalGambit wrote...

Thought it was a nice touch. If you're looking at a culture's religions from the outside, they're all just myths and fairy tales. Plus, Mordin is the very model of a scientist Salarian, so you would expect him to take a rational approach to the subject of religion.

Getting too political here, need to stay neutral and whatnot to comply with forum rules.

Wasn't my intention. Just stating the fact that Mordin was acting the way you would expect, given his characterisation. 

This is the way I saw it, too. I'm a Christian, (albeit, not a great one), and I had no problem with his statement. The Greek Pantheon? Mythology in my opinion. To Greeks who still worship the old gods, (and yes, some still exist), Christianity is a mythology. It's expected, especially from a non-human scientist commenting on a human matter that is outside the perspective of science.

[Kajan451]

hoodaticus wrote...
In your opinion.

Yeah.. kinda. I already posted the dictionary entry earlier... but maybe Wikipedia is more helpful in understanding?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

Wikipedia on Mythology wrote...

The term "mythology" can refer either to the study of myths (e.g., comparative mythology), or to a body or collection of myths (a mythos, e.g., Inca mythology).[1] In folkloristics, a myth is a sacred narrative usually explaining how the world or humankind came to be in its present form,[2] although, in a very broad sense, the word can refer to any traditional story.[3] Myths typically involve supernatural characters and are endorsed by rulers or priests. They may arise as overelaborated accounts of historical events, as allegory for or personification of natural phenomena, or as an explanation of ritual. They are transmitted to convey religious or idealized experience, to establish behavioral models, and to teach.

Its not so much my opinion, but actually what Mythology means. And if your going ahead and claiming anything in the bible is actually anything but a sacred narrative explaining how the world and humankind came to be, and how mankind is supposed to act (behavioral models), then i suggest you contact your local priest and have them explain it to you.

[JesseLee202]

I really, really, hate to burst some of your bubbles... but the Mass Effect universe is not real, so I was not offended at all. I know where the line between reality and fiction is.

[Ariq]

nwj94 wrote...

These guys nailed it.  But, I would guess the OP is refering to conservative Christian who would take offense at this. 

I'm a conservative Christian, and the term didn't bother me. Didn't give it much thought until I read this thread. I actually appreciated the care with which Bioware presented religion in the ME series. Mordin, Liara, Ashley, and Thane were all openly religious characters to one degree or another.

[AxisEvolve]

AlexXIV wrote...
I am pretty sure alot of religious people will disagree with that. Not saying you're wrong. But that's the point of the OP. Disproving religion in a sci-fi franchise is probably a good way to get religious fanatics riled up against you.

Religious fanatics get riled up about everything. We shouldn't limit what we say with our art just because it offends some people. 

[kglaser]

AxisEvolve wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
I am pretty sure alot of religious people will disagree with that. Not saying you're wrong. But that's the point of the OP. Disproving religion in a sci-fi franchise is probably a good way to get religious fanatics riled up against you.

Religious fanatics get riled up about everything. We shouldn't limit what we say with our art just because it offends some people.

Absolutely, absolutely agree.  I never understood what was so freaking horrible about risking "offending" someone, anyway.  (and for the record, yes, I am religious.)

[Lethys1]

ckriley wrote...

By the way, to keep this thread from devolving into a political or religious debate, it should be mentioned that various characters refer to all the different races in the galaxy as having their own myths.  So what Mordin said was totally in keeping with that.  But I was just curious that this didn't cause controversy.

Anyone else notice what Mordin said and kind of pause?

How can you possibly create this thread and not expect it to devolve to a religious debate?  And it is mythology to a completely alien race, just like whatever made-up religion Salarians believe in is mythology to humans.

[ZackG312]

SuperVulcan wrote...

I believe in God and it didn't bother me.

I think thee only people that are bothered are the atheist that wanted a controversy

[Wintermaulz]

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

Actually no, we dont <_<

[NoUserNameHere]

An in-character bout of stock symbolism? In my sci-fi franchise?

By the Supreme Being! This vestige of the slave morality cannot be allowed to pollute the IP!

... am I doing it right? Is anyone REAAALLLYYY outraged by this?


I'm merely curious about how Mordin (who has studied these things before) and Padok Wiks (who has some weird philosophy about destiny and paradiagm shifts) are able to think up the same name in alternate universes.

[joshko]

Is this really being talked about?

[ediskrad327]

maybe because no one really cared

[Iconoclaste]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

But why not Lucy? Dr. Leakey referred to what he thought was the first hominid female as "Lucy." Why Eve? or would Lucy have gone over everyone's head?

Lucy! Good point!

But Eve is not just related to religion, and its use in anthropology / genetics is just in line with Mordin proposing that name for a Krogan female that will litterally give "birth" to the species' future.

http://en.wikipedia....tochondrial_Eve

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 02 mai 2012 - 04:46 .

[Norman250]

Sooooo many people here don't fully understand what the word "mythology" means.

[Seryl]

Dominus Solanum wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...
Actually, that poster makes a valid point. Science has become a de-facto religion, with it's own dogmas, "holy men", and acolytes. And this is an observation from someone who isn't even religious (me).

You say you do not have a firm belief in anything, YET you firmly believe that religion is nothing more than a falsehood. And it IS A BELIEF on your part, since there is NO HARD EVIDENCE that there is a higher power, or that there is no higher power.

The Agnostics are actually closer to the mark, if one wants to get technical. They simply admit that they don't know.

I was with you on your defenses up until you said that. This is an arguement I've heard dozens of times and is so flawed in its way of thinking that it continues to stupify me every time I hear it. If you've come to that conclusion on your own, kudos. I think it's far more likely it was told to you by the masses of people that think like you and train themselves against valid arguments. 

Science lacks the defining characteristics of a religion. It also does not require faith to work. 

Going to post that again so you can read it twice. 

Science lacks the defining characteristics of a religion. It also does not require faith to work.  

Your arguments are just fine, but please stop trying to spread this idea around.  It is wrong, flat out, no matter what your faith is. 

Dominus,

The point that is being made by the people forwarding that argument is that it is not possible for average people to independently test and verify new scientific breakthroughs. That is, the cost and expertise required is so high that only a select few can do it. Thus, new scientific breakthroughs (ie. quantum mechanics) and the knowledge they bring can only be received from "Holy Men" (scientists) and acolytes (scientific writers). If an average person disagrees with the knowledge they read about and, by some miracle, could actually give plausible reasons WHY they don't agree with it, their opinion will be ignored since they can't run the experiment to prove their point. So, they have to accept the knowledge (dogma) they're given at face value.

I'm not sure if I agree with that, but I can certainly see where the opinion comes from.

To the OP, I'm religious and I saw nothing wrong with naming the female Krogan "Eve". 

[JerusPI]

It was all for naught anyway StarUrchin is the god of all life Ancient controlling and such.

Kinda makes me glad the Universe is destroyed

[Oldbones2]

Not really, even today, many agnostics and atheists refer to modern religions as mythology.

The term applies to any series of collective beliefs regardless of their age or current number of believers.

And speaking as a Christian. I didn't care what the fly eating lizard man said about my chosen faith.

[Zardoc]

Wintermaulz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

Actually no, we dont <_<

So all Christians are creationists? I don't think so.


Or perhaps I just didn't what you were trying to say. Care to elaborate?

Modifié par Zardoc, 02 mai 2012 - 05:09 .

[Iconoclaste]

I found this on page 1 :

Catroi wrote...

It's said in the ME1 codex that abrahamic religions collapsed after the discovery of other species, because they were unable to explain their existence

I forgot that. But it amuses me to think that someday, while lots of churches, temples and statues will still be standing here on Earth, teams of human explorers will reach other planets and might just find churches, temples and statues also standing there...

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 02 mai 2012 - 05:16 .

[Ender Ghost]

Wintermaulz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You do know many Christians regard Adam and Eve and other the stories of the Old Testament as mythology don't you?

Actually no, we dont <_<

I don't know a single Christian who thinks that...